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  #31  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Rio56 View Post
fair enough if you don't know or aren't comfortable .. that's why I asked the questions in that scenario .. others can give there experiences and thoughts too ...what you see as dumb is your choice , keep it ....
It's a ligitamate question, but it would have been nice to see what options shooters of other cartridges prefered.

As for the dumb comment, I suspect you meant something other then what you said. You did say "any" but I'm sure you know that there are angles that do not make sense, which is where my comment came from.

I know, I could have conveyed that better, my bad.
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  #32  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by JD848 View Post
IF you hunt where it's wide open then you can choose more your shot more carefully,but I hunt near water, swamps and lots of underbrush so like it or not most of my shots are drop on the spot higher up shots,you have to practice ,be very confident in yourself plus your rifle and just pick your killing piont,i would use a 300 wsm or 7mm re mag with 180 or 160 accubond or partition,75 percent are all higher shots for me,so the only thing that would make me stop would be the wind,350 and a heavy wind is time to get closer ,for me it's just another nice animal and wish never to hurt one so I know my limitations very well .
Longer angled shots are part of hunting so sometimes that's the shot you have and you put it down.If there is one ounce of thought that things could go wrong back off,your not ready at all to do this,a good memory is better than any nightmare.Plus 350 yards to most guys is a long way out,to others it's just another shot,but they got that way from experience and all have at least one nightmare and this is why they better themselves never to experience this again.
Good post.

I wish I was better at expressing my thoughts the way you do.

But we each have our strengths and weaknesses. One of my weaknesses is communication.

People on the other side of this keyboard may think I rattle off these posts in seconds. Actually a typical post takes me half an hour or more, of proof reading, corrections, and deleting before I am comfortable hitting the post button. And I still fail to make my point clearly enough in most cases.
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  #33  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by mgvande View Post
Because women are better shots

ROFL

It sure seems so at times. And maybe they are.
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  #34  
Old 03-23-2017, 09:49 PM
FellSwoop FellSwoop is offline
 
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Well I've never shoulder shot an elk but have done this to a moose a few years back with a 7 mmRM at perhaps 180 yards maybe closer. Moose yelping and wheezing until I got there to finish it made me feel bad. 140 gr nosler partition passed through one shoulder and broke leg on opposite side. Even when I practiced allot a 350 yard shot would be far for me. I believe that the furthest kill I have done is between 300 and 325 yards, a mule buck. As for bullet choice, if specific looking to break bones, then a monometal is probably best even though I have limited experience with them and can't describe performance in various situations.
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  #35  
Old 03-23-2017, 10:25 PM
Deer_Hunter Deer_Hunter is offline
 
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I use Barnes TTSX - copper solid

Effectively 100% retention

Had a bullet migration during a shot on an elk and bullet connected with leg bone - bullet retained in leg and was intact, bone shattered of course and lost meat .... still was effective and followed with a quick follow up shot
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  #36  
Old 03-23-2017, 10:28 PM
hilt134 hilt134 is offline
 
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Well i guess its up to what bullet you can make that 350 yard shot with. Personally i would get closer if i can. Long distance hunting is a close to what i consider unethical but some people dont mind it so what ever. Theres no guess work here spend your time at the range take a pick of bullets and come up with a way of testing this scenario. Then pick the best.
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  #37  
Old 03-23-2017, 10:28 PM
elkhunter1234 elkhunter1234 is offline
 
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210gr Noslor Partisions out of my 338win. Have put lots of elk on the ground, and yes my first shot is ALWAYS aimed to take out a shoulder. 30 plus years of guiding have taught me that an elk can run a long ways and get into some ugly stuff after a good lung shot.

Jim..
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  #38  
Old 03-23-2017, 10:46 PM
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Take it with a grain of salt.....

Ive only shot one elk

My opportunity was at 325 lasered yards, last 30 min of legal light.
My 7 Rem mag was held on the shoulder and I squeezed off the shot
One shot dropped him like a sack of potatoes. The report of the bullet impacting hide never sounded so good.
The partition did pass through but did a decent amount of damage without getting crazy, and the shock dropped him. He was down for the count but I decided to start the walk down the hill side to give him another if required.
I did put another at the base of his skull when I got there.
Sorry, just like telling the story

I will say a shoulder shot with a 160 grain partition worked that time
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  #39  
Old 03-23-2017, 11:20 PM
Diesel_wiesel Diesel_wiesel is offline
 
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Nosler partion first choice speer grand slam second choice
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  #40  
Old 03-27-2017, 02:16 PM
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A relatively simple question gets asked, then ethics enter into the equation. the answer has a lot of moving parts. This is without a doubt the most opinionated page I spend some time on. Is 350 yards long range shooting? no right answer, long to some, average to others, will the shot be too much for a 338 Lapua? or what about a 243 Winchester, its not simple. @350 yards a 30-06 180 gr. bullet has about 1800 foot pounds of energy, as long as it is well constructed, Nosler Accubond, partition, Barnes X-bullet etc. the shoulder shot is very doable with positive results, provided shot placement ( most important detail) is good. The 243 has about 1000 foot lbs @350 yards, no I would not take that shot.
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  #41  
Old 03-27-2017, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
A relatively simple question gets asked, then ethics enter into the equation.

I have come to believe that the only ethics we should be concerned with are our own. For the most part during discussion we should keep our ethics to ourselves. Even with the best intentions, to define our ethics may make some feel defensive or feel judged. When hunting I may do something that others may see as unethical and I may refrain from doing something that others may do and by talking about why I refrained may make me sound judgemental. When I hunt I try to obey the law to the best of my understanding. When I kill I try to make it as quick and humane as I can. At the end of the hunt it is me and only me who decides how ethical I was.

Just realized that writing all this may make me sound judgemental.
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  #42  
Old 03-27-2017, 04:28 PM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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Originally Posted by covey ridge View Post
I have come to believe that the only ethics we should be concerned with are our own. For the most part during discussion we should keep our ethics to ourselves. Even with the best intentions, to define our ethics may make some feel defensive or feel judged. When hunting I may do something that others may see as unethical and I may refrain from doing something that others may do and by talking about why I refrained may make me sound judgemental. When I hunt I try to obey the law to the best of my understanding. When I kill I try to make it as quick and humane as I can. At the end of the hunt it is me and only me who decides how ethical I was.

Just realized that writing all this may make me sound judgemental.
Nothing judgmental about those comments. Well stated !
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  #43  
Old 03-28-2017, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by covey ridge View Post
I have come to believe that the only ethics we should be concerned with are our own. For the most part during discussion we should keep our ethics to ourselves. Even with the best intentions, to define our ethics may make some feel defensive or feel judged. When hunting I may do something that others may see as unethical and I may refrain from doing something that others may do and by talking about why I refrained may make me sound judgemental. When I hunt I try to obey the law to the best of my understanding. When I kill I try to make it as quick and humane as I can. At the end of the hunt it is me and only me who decides how ethical I was.

Just realized that writing all this may make me sound judgemental.
Good stuff and hits the nail on my point, sometimes we just need to answer the question being asked and reserve judgment, ethics are our own.
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  #44  
Old 08-11-2017, 11:57 AM
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Default shoulder shots defined?

Thought I should ask re shoulder shots definitions.
And bull elk.

For those that spoke of shoulder shots and dropping elk are we referring to smashing both shoulders?

I has been my belief (cause more experienced guys told me) smash one shoulder will put a moose down.
But an elk can go a long ways with only one good shoulder.
That is providing no fragments hit vitals...

No argument intended.
I have only take 2 bull elk, both lung shots...
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  #45  
Old 08-11-2017, 06:34 PM
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At 350 yds many rifle /bullet/combo will get the job done.
I personally prefer 300s magnums for elk and moose with 200 gr bullets.
Nosler would be very good but in mine guns could not shoot them well enough past 400ish yds.
Hot Core from Speer in my point of view is very overlooked bullet. Works both on double lung shoots and also will brake a shoulder as well as Sierra GK .
I took one bull and one cow with Speer in a shoulder and they dropped on the spot but had to finish bull in the neck still .
Those 3 bullets out of my limited experience 8 elk and 4 moose will break only one shoulder not two but will anchor them on the spot if hit there. Through the lungs they might run a bit but not far.
Killed also one bull with 270 wsm with 160 gr partition , that one went through both shoulders at 70 yds, he ran only 30 yds.
Also killed cow elk with 140 gr Barnes TSX at 250 yds , bullet penetrated both shoulders too, dropped on the spot.
With Barnes tsx which I tried in 300 WSM ,270 wsm , 243 win 30-06 if shoulder was not hit, only through the lungs they sometimes might run for quite a bit .I have seen 150 yds , with a pretty good shot .
With the shoulder shot everything from smallish WT up to big bull usually will drop on a spot .
Never killed anything with TSX past 300 yds so can not comment how they perform at longer ranges, I guess though the performance will be getting worse with the distance.
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  #46  
Old 08-11-2017, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Rio56 View Post
Yes I know the perfect shot thru the lungs .. have seen that , but still gotta ask the question ....
What's your pick ... what's worked for you ... what grain and type ? does it matter ? 338 win mag 225 grain or the 7-08 with a 140 grainer .. SO the elk of a lifetime walks out at say 350 yards .. Are you comfortable shooting your rifle ? and with what ? at any angle ?

Every one has an opinion .. here's mine.

I don't like tracking and I don't like packing any more than I have to so I don't worry too much about making exit holes or leaving blood trails. I use a medium bore ,heavy for caliber bullet at moderate velocity using a well constructed bullet in the Nosler Partition category or a heavy cup&core, as a bit of fragmentation is always a bonus. Shot placement for me is midway up and a few inches forward of the foreleg vertical line. It seems to get the job done every time. That area contains what I call the "junction". A bullet placed in that area usually affects three vitals .. front lung cavity,, a main artery, the spinal column(CNS) and one or two totally disabled shoulders. It is a high bullet resistance area as well which makes it a great place to send a higher velocity mono bullet as well, if one so chooses. Identifying precisely where the shoulder joint (not the Scapula) actually is in various animal stances and positions is a must in this instance.
I have asked three hunters recently where to locate the shoulder joint on a Moose or Elk standing broad side. All three were wrong ,so for some at least, a brief study of animal anatomy may be advisable. As I see it lung shots alone, although easier shots, will kill an animal but where and when it dies is sometimes up to the animal. Just not my idea of a good time.
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  #47  
Old 08-11-2017, 08:47 PM
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750 Gr Amax.... lol. Ottadoit

My much more exp hunting bud next to me here at work says nosler accubonds

Last edited by wolf308; 08-11-2017 at 09:09 PM.
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  #48  
Old 08-11-2017, 10:08 PM
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Wait for him to run past then take the Texas Bullseye. High vis target even if the gutting can get a tad messy.
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  #49  
Old 08-12-2017, 03:28 PM
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The latest elk that I've lost had nothing to do with caliber choices. My horse was being a temperamental "B". So they were gone.
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  #50  
Old 08-13-2017, 07:00 PM
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338 WM and a 210 TSX, period !
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  #51  
Old 08-14-2017, 11:54 AM
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Another personal vote for monometal on bigger game. My particular 7MM likes the 140 grain TSX so that's what I feed it (also happens to like the trophy copper which is basically a clone).

99% of my shots are inside of 300 yards. This is just what I have been told and have read, but apparently these bullets perform at their best when pushed at a healthy velocity and don't provide quite the same expansion as they start to slow down. How exactly that translates out at 300-400 yards or more for each cartridge I honestly couldn't tell you since I have yet to even comfortably try with my own.

At 300 yards or less on big game with a 7MM Rem Mag expansion is still extremely effective in my experience. I have 100% confidence in the bullet. That's the 'premium' that I'm personally paying for with a premium bullet. Can it technically be done with a lighter bullet? I'm sure it could. Am I willing to bet a 5 day hunting trip and a Moose\Elk for the extra $10 to $15 that it costs for a box of the TSX's on it.....not a chance.
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  #52  
Old 08-14-2017, 01:12 PM
West O'5 West O'5 is offline
 
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Wind is ALWAYS a factor, especially if it is blowing !
Cat
Ummm,NO it is not ALWAYS a factor,get real.
A 10mph x-wind barely makes a fiddler's fart worth of difference inside of 200yards when aiming for relatively generous size target of moose/elk vitals,and even less significant inside of 100.
Even at 300y,employing just a wee bit of Kentucky windage by holding off into the wind 12" to err on the side of caution is more then enough holdoff to compensate for any wind deflection.
In the REAL world,we're aiming for heart/lungs/vitals,not trying to pick a flea off a gophers head here.
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  #53  
Old 08-14-2017, 01:25 PM
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When did 350 yds become long range? .

Depends on the person and their practice. 350 is very long for me. I've never had to attempt it when hunting. Would be a chip shot for others.

I've never understood shoulder shots. Not saying they are a bad idea, just that I've never understood the wisdom. I might need an education. The only explanation I've ever heard that made sense to me is where stopping the animal is more important than killing it; for example a moose near water, or a griz close enough to charge you if you don't drop it pronto.
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  #54  
Old 08-14-2017, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by West O'5 View Post
Ummm,NO it is not ALWAYS a factor,get real.
A 10mph x-wind barely makes a fiddler's fart worth of difference inside of 200yards when aiming for relatively generous size target of moose/elk vitals,and even less significant inside of 100.
Even at 300y,employing just a wee bit of Kentucky windage by holding off into the wind 12" to err on the side of caution is more then enough holdoff to compensate for any wind deflection.
In the REAL world,we're aiming for heart/lungs/vitals,not trying to pick a flea off a gophers head here.
You are the one that needs to get real .
If the wind doesn't matter why did you mention holding off for it, something that has to be learned and is not something that6 is second nature??
never mind, I could care less what you think or say.
Cat
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Old 08-14-2017, 01:44 PM
West O'5 West O'5 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
You are the one that needs to get real .
If the wind doesn't matter why did you mention holding off for it, something that has to be learned and is not something that6 is second nature??
never mind, I could care less what you think or say.
Cat
If you reread my post,I said that NO it does NOT ALWAYS matter as you stated.
....and I mentioned holding off with a bit of Kentucky windage for those long-ish 300y shots because yes,for some of us that don't rely on a ballistics calculator in real world hunting conditions it does come as 2nd nature......not to mention the fact that 95% or more of game is taken within 300y,the vast majority at half that distance and less where wind is not a significant factor even worthy of consideration.
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  #56  
Old 08-14-2017, 02:16 PM
JD848 JD848 is online now
 
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Angled shots that do more damage,you can only do so much damage to the lungs and it's all over,heart it's all over,spinal or front hump shot done deal ,if you done it on moose 60 times or more no big deal or a good shot in the back off the head it's all over,after that if I want to damage to my moose I run it over with my truck 4 or 5 times,so I can show all the damage my rifle does.

If you get that pumped that you can't wait for a normal shot,let it walk,i haven't ruined a front quarter in decades,specially if there far out past 175 to 400,I have plenty of time to put one in the boiler room,but if you get off on shooting the hell of your game go for it.I don't like to waste an once,let alone a deflection on a bone at just the right angle and your hunt is on for a few days

bullet,choice,accubond,partition,ELD-X haven't tried yet but can't see a problem,if came right down to it a core lock will do,guys are killing with bows cause shot placement is a must,i think the same with my rifle and where I point it.

Last edited by JD848; 08-14-2017 at 02:25 PM.
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  #57  
Old 08-14-2017, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
Depends on the person and their practice. 350 is very long for me. I've never had to attempt it when hunting. Would be a chip shot for others.

I've never understood shoulder shots. Not saying they are a bad idea, just that I've never understood the wisdom. I might need an education. The only explanation I've ever heard that made sense to me is where stopping the animal is more important than killing it; for example a moose near water, or a griz close enough to charge you if you don't drop it pronto.
I'm personally in the same boat. I can definitely see why someone would go that route if put in one of those situations. Maybe you've got a land owner who is not quite as eager or shares your love of hunting and having an animal you'd need to track onto someone else property presents a whole host of other challenges. I personally haven't found myself in that type of situation, thankfully.......yet, at least.

If I happen to hit it in the shoulder or a bit off the mark it's because I missed the shot and was completely unintended. Having said that, however, it's the main reason I personally prefer the TSX (or similarly tough bullet). Partitions and Accubonds behave much the same way. You (I) want to get as deep into the vitals as possible and those types of bullets are much more likely to get a guy there. If you do encounter thick hide and bone along the way I'm counting on one of these to retain most of its weight and still have enough oomph to cross that finish line. It's basically bullet insurance for me.

In my experience almost all shots with a tougher bullet result in bang-flops or an animal that went no more than maybe a couple of yards with the first shot. Most just crumple. To me, crumple = a win for everyone involved. I've also witnessed shots with a less tough bullet with equally good performance. Those were well placed shots that made it through to vitals. There have also been less tough bullets with seemingly good shot placement that resulted in wounded animals and a lot of work.

Both can get the job done. I just feel much more comfortable with that extra bit of insurance........especially when you're talking about a bigger animal and anywhere bone might be involved.

I remember watching a youtube clip where Federal did a test on ballistics gel using 4 different bullets using the same caliber. One of the tests was hide over ballistic gel with embedded bone (this is not intended as a sales pitch for Federal by the way. If anything it would be for Barnes):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMKvetaMqhE
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  #58  
Old 08-14-2017, 02:58 PM
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Anybody have any experience with a 180gr hornady sst out of a 300wm? On elk?
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  #59  
Old 08-14-2017, 03:33 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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My pops had a good saying about having enough gun and bullet too allow for a bit of leeway should the shot go wonky.

All of us know that what we shoot at the range we don't seem too find in the field.

I agree, lots of factors at play as only the shooter them selves get too decide at that moment in time.

Each persons judgement is different, along with skills they bring to the table,,, that what makes Harvesting challenging is learning our own talents.

My out field Harvesting skills are not good, I fast free-hand at the range before heading afield,,, my hands tell me what range I need too keep in mind.

Different shooting positions allow for different distances.
It's only me that gets too decide wheather it's a keeper or wait for another day.

Today I am less likely too pull the trigger as I weigh in the factor of how much work is there going too be packing that critter too the truck.
Evening harvest are out since I'm not about too go too work as the sun goes down.

We will know when "too or not too" pull that trigger as our mind and skill set tells us so.

Don
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