Elk Island National Park considers hunt to cull herds

[JustMe]

Here's an interesting question that perhaps someone knows the answer to (not opinion) Being the cull, if it takes place, will be on federal and not provincial land, will all residents of Canada be allowed to apply for a permit, if it comes down to that process? Did anyone at the meeting ask?

Originally Posted by leo

If I were managing the wildlife populations I would propose the following. Have a lottery for the 225 animals to be culled next year. 1000 tickets at $10 each. There's $10,000 in general revenue that should go towards the parks general revenue. Draw in random order the 225 recipients. Give them a date they can "pick up" their elk or bison. The park staff should do a round up of this many animals and run them through the chute. Bull, cow, yearling. whatever is in the chute at the time is what you get. Do it the same as a slaughter house. This gives the park biologist the opportunity to say yea or nay to an individual animal. No random bullets flying, no wounded critters, and most importantly, no black eye for hunters. It's a cull not a hunt.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by JustMe

Here's an interesting question that perhaps someone knows the answer to (not opinion) Being the cull, if it takes place, will be on federal and not provincial land, will all residents of Canada be allowed to apply for a permit, if it comes down to that process? Did anyone at the meeting ask?

That would be up to Parks Canada to decide.


Anyone remember this?

Just a couple of years ago Parks Canada paid for helicopter flights to successful Moose hunt draw applicants in order to access remote areas.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...cism-1.3435324

There is lots of history of Parks Canada managing hunting in the parks, often including working with the provincial jurisdiction to distribute the harvest allocation between Native and non-native hunters.

[Outdoorfanatic]

Originally Posted by jaylow?

Part of the problem hey

Park is so over populated with no natural predators and high fenced so they float the idea of a hunt . Not fair chase . Make sure you register your horns with SCI and tell everyone the story of your hard park hunt. Maybe hit up African lion safari in Ontario for your big Africa hunt .

The proposed hunt is clearly not for the Jim Shockey types. But easy is not the point; after all easy even has Jim Shockey puts it is all according to the interpretation of the individual. This is about the Outdoorsman/women doing what we are meant to and passionate about; managing our natural resource. So even if its not your thing, as an Outdoorsman I'd expect that you'd be a positive voice for the rest of your fellow Outdoorsman/women. If we don't support each other than don't expect the tree huggers too.

[Outdoorfanatic]

It's a false question. Suffield is suppose to be a cull as well. Which means? What exactly? You're implying that those who participate in these style of management plans are not as real or pure of a hunter as you are. Well Suffield isn't an automatic I know guys who got a trophy animal there but also lots who got skunked. The point here is cull vs hunt discussion is a divisive one. The point is we as the Outdoor community won't be included or invited if we don't support one another in the different styles of hunting that each one participates in. Its an up hill battle at best lets not make it worse.

[claystone]

IMHO it should be a meat and hide only population cull, if a bull gets taken the antlers stay behind.

[bloody arrow]

The park is near a big populated area, anybody considered the backlash from the anti? a hunt/cull in a national park.... I can see PETA and their followers at the gate protesting..... asking for the animals to be relocated....
Suffield is a long way from Calgary or Edmonton, so it has been quiet, but Elk Island Park....

[Outdoorfanatic]

Originally Posted by bloody arrow

The park is near a big populated area, anybody considered the backlash from the anti? a hunt/cull in a national park.... I can see PETA and their followers at the gate protesting..... asking for the animals to be relocated....
Suffield is a long way from Calgary or Edmonton, so it has been quiet, but Elk Island Park....

Suffield was far from quite, it made National News and even there you're allow the antlers. Guys the antis have already won if we can't unite and support those Outdoorsman/women who might consider participating in the management strategy allowed; what ever that might mean. Besides there's an obvious immediate solution that doesn't include hunting in a National Park or "culling" or re-locating to a different region. I'm speaking of Blackfoot. Some of us have and do already hunt Blackfoot; it's WMU 936. There's also Ministik Lake bird Sanctuary. Between these two recreation areas they total more sq km of existing hunting area than all of Elk Island. Blackfoot shares a fence with Elk Island and Ministik is only a few more miles down the road.

[Outdoorfanatic]

I'm really curious to know were these different Native groups were when the government took away some prime hunting land around Ministik Lake last fall. They're all fired up to claim everything as "traditional" when it might suit them and them alone, but what about support the outdoor community as a whole. One government takes traditional hunting land away now calling it park and a few miles up the highway another government contemplates allowing hunting in a National Park. All within 8 months of each occurrence.

[chuck-the-chimp]

Originally Posted by Outdoorfanatic

Suffield was far from quite, it made National News and even there you're allow the antlers. Guys the antis have already won if we can't unite and support those Outdoorsman/women who might consider participating in the management strategy allowed; what ever that might mean. Besides there's an obvious immediate solution that doesn't include hunting in a National Park or "culling" or re-locating to a different region. I'm speaking of Blackfoot. Some of us have and do already hunt Blackfoot; it's WMU 936. There's also Ministik Lake bird Sanctuary. Between these two recreation areas they total more sq km of existing hunting area than all of Elk Island. Blackfoot shares a fence with Elk Island and Ministik is only a few more miles down the road.

I'd agree with you there.
Did you see the recently published harvest rates for elk in there? Pretty low.
The ones in there have gotten wise. I'm all for fresh supply of dumb ones. Even if they're all cows.....

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Outdoorfanatic

I'm really curious to know were these different Native groups were when the government took away some prime hunting land around Ministik Lake last fall. They're all fired up to claim everything as "traditional" when it might suit them and them alone, but what about support the outdoor community as a whole. One government takes traditional hunting land away now calling it park and a few miles up the highway another government contemplates allowing hunting in a National Park. All within 8 months of each occurrence.

I am really curious to know if you include native groups in Outdoorsman/women who might consider participating in the management strategy?

[leo]

Originally Posted by Outdoorfanatic

Suffield was far from quite, it made National News and even there you're allow the antlers. Guys the antis have already won if we can't unite and support those Outdoorsman/women who might consider participating in the management strategy allowed; what ever that might mean. Besides there's an obvious immediate solution that doesn't include hunting in a National Park or "culling" or re-locating to a different region. I'm speaking of Blackfoot. Some of us have and do already hunt Blackfoot; it's WMU 936. There's also Ministik Lake bird Sanctuary. Between these two recreation areas they total more sq km of existing hunting area than all of Elk Island. Blackfoot shares a fence with Elk Island and Ministik is only a few more miles down the road.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Is Suffield full of seasonal tourists with unrestricted access? I don't think so. See the difference? No matter the outcome some parties, or all parties are going to be pizzed at Parks Canada's solution. I have no intention of partaking in any such gong show. I support a legal hunt if that's what the solution is. But I sure don't see any good publicity from it.

[covey ridge]

I spoke to a fellow who had been at the Suffield shoot on two different times. The first time he got an elk but said that he witnessed several incident of long range herd shooting. The second time he acted as guide for two other shooters. This time he also witnessed the same herd shooting. Neither of his hunters shot at or shot an elk but took two elk that were offered to him by Suffield personal. Wounded animals that had been dispatched. At these shoots there was only shooters and Suffield staff and fish cops.

I can only imagine what might be witnessed in a park where the public has access?

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by leo

Correct me if I'm wrong. Is Suffield full of seasonal tourists with unrestricted access? I don't think so. See the difference? No matter the outcome some parties, or all parties are going to be pizzed at Parks Canada's solution. I have no intention of partaking in any such gong show. I support a legal hunt if that's what the solution is. But I sure don't see any good publicity from it.

This is not a correction, but a comparison. What you describe about tourists and unrestricted access, occurs 10 feet away from Elk Island Park in Blackfoot. Tourists, hikers, bird watchers, etc, have much more access in Blackfoot then in Elk Island, yet hunting big game has been going on there for years.
Keep in mind that most big game hunting occurs in the fall or winter when a lot of "tourists" are safe and warm at home.
Even in late summer when Grouse/Duck hunters and "tourist's" share the same area, everyone seems to be happy. Heck, even the Horses and cows are happy and safe in Blackfoot.
I sometimes wonder if some of you "hunters" are just "tourists" on this forum.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I spoke to a fellow who had been at the Suffield shoot on two different times. The first time he got an elk but said that he witnessed several incident of long range herd shooting. The second time he acted as guide for two other shooters. This time he also witnessed the same herd shooting. Neither of his hunters shot at or shot an elk but took two elk that were offered to him by Suffield personal. Wounded animals that had been dispatched. At these shoots there was only shooters and Suffield staff and fish cops.

I can only imagine what might be witnessed in a park where the public has access?

For sure, it would be an ugly sight. Something that I'd want nothing to do with.

[leo]

Originally Posted by waterninja

I sometimes wonder if some of you "hunters" are just "tourists" on this forum.

You're right. I don't have over 10,000 posts, guess I'm a tourist. Therefore my comments should be disregarded. I'll get back to reality while some of you "hunters" solve the problems of the world. Peace out!

[Outdoorfanatic]

I'm confused, hunting an elk island elk in Blackfoot or Ministik is good or bad?

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by leo

You're right. I don't have over 10,000 posts, guess I'm a tourist. Therefore my comments should be disregarded. I'll get back to reality while some of you "hunters" solve the problems of the world. Peace out!

If I wanted to disregard your comment I would have. I'm simply giving you an example/comparison of how the system can and does work. You made it sound that decent folk or tourists are not safe around hunters. I resent that.
Peace baby.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by waterninja

If I wanted to disregard your comment I would have. I'm simply giving you an example/comparison of how the system can and does work. You made it sound that decent folk or tourists are not safe around hunters. I resent that.
Peace baby.

I think that decent folk and/or tourists ARE safe around hunters.

The problem as I see it is that not all those that carry firearms during hunting season are real hunters

[Little red riding hood]

I'm all in favor of humping it through the woods to base camp on the dark side of the moon, but I'm not above shooting a moose from the combine seat if he comes looking for me, and for some folks an easy hunt may be all the time they could manage this year... just my 2 cents

[waterninja]

No kidding Red. But don't kid yourself, Elk Island is a large area of bush meadows and lakes. No easy hunts there.
Well.... you might find the rare one close a road

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I spoke to a fellow who had been at the Suffield shoot on two different times. The first time he got an elk but said that he witnessed several incident of long range herd shooting. The second time he acted as guide for two other shooters. This time he also witnessed the same herd shooting. Neither of his hunters shot at or shot an elk but took two elk that were offered to him by Suffield personal. Wounded animals that had been dispatched. At these shoots there was only shooters and Suffield staff and fish cops.

I can only imagine what might be witnessed in a park where the public has access?

When I was there, both the days I hunted had no wounded animals dispatched by the CF. they said that last year was really good for that

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

When I was there, both the days I hunted had no wounded animals dispatched by the CF. they said that last year was really good for that

I heard one day during the hunt, F&W put down more injured elk than hunters harvested.

LC

[ryeguy21]

i read online that... i heard from a friend that..

This one time i almost caught a 500 lb fish but it got away.

Man I love these stories.

[ryeguy21]

Originally Posted by Outdoorfanatic

The proposed hunt is clearly not for the Jim Shockey types. But easy is not the point; after all easy even has Jim Shockey puts it is all according to the interpretation of the individual. This is about the Outdoorsman/women doing what we are meant to and passionate about; managing our natural resource. So even if its not your thing, as an Outdoorsman I'd expect that you'd be a positive voice for the rest of your fellow Outdoorsman/women. If we don't support each other than don't expect the tree huggers too.

This is the best post ive read on this subject over the last few days anywhere online. Hunters are spending all their time hating on other hunters who want to use guns not bows, hating on first nations hunters, hating on the cull because its not a hunt or hating that the tags arent being sold to the highest bidder.

Hunters on this forum seem to be a grumpy bunch. Facebook is even worst. Hunters are turning against each other at every turn.

Its quite pathetic. Thanks for sharing outdoorfanatic as your 100% correct on your thought.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by ryeguy21

This is the best post ive read on this subject over the last few days anywhere online. Hunters are spending all their time hating on other hunters who want to use guns not bows, hating on first nations hunters, hating on the cull because its not a hunt or hating that the tags arent being sold to the highest bidder.

Hunters on this forum seem to be a grumpy bunch. Facebook is even worst. Hunters are turning against each other at every turn.

Its quite pathetic. Thanks for sharing outdoorfanatic as your 100% correct on your thought.

Ryeguy

With all this continual talk of hunters so called turning on hunters etc etc, i gotta ask. Is it the new cool to regurgitate this lame hunter phrase? How long until it drifts away from trendy? Year 42? I suppose maybe i should get with it and get cool, it seems there may be time and hope for me. If you were discusiing golfers talking about how to best manage the golf course, everyone has an opinion. Do we say golfers are turning on golfers over and over and over again? I have to wonder what is pathetic in this. Just an observation man, and me wondering aloud

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by claystone

IMHO it should be a meat and hide only population cull, if a bull gets taken the antlers stay behind.

Fantastic idea actually. Just as a subsistence hunt should be meat only, perhaps a cull hunt should be as well.
Horns/antlers forfeited to the crown from year round hunting and cull hunts. After all, the intent of both hunts is to put food on the table....

[Outdoorfanatic]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Ryeguy

With all this continual talk of hunters so called turning on hunters etc etc, i gotta ask. Is it the new cool to regurgitate this lame hunter phrase? How long until it drifts away from trendy? Year 42? I suppose maybe i should get with it and get cool, it seems there may be time and hope for me. If you were discusiing golfers talking about how to best manage the golf course, everyone has an opinion. Do we say golfers are turning on golfers over and over and over again? I have to wonder what is pathetic in this. Just an observation man, and me wondering aloud

Personally I think the optics of someone using a number 1 wood on a little golf ball are pretty violent and unethical. Therefor they can't be considered real golfers and by rights should be outlawed. Sounds ridiculous yes? Difference is if one golf course has a set of rules you don't like than you wouldn't choose to golf there. But you also wouldn't degrade that has a legit choice for some other golfer. Or at least I wouldn't. The elk you harvest will taste the same as the one I harvest. And nice horns are nice horns. Period.

[Little red riding hood]

Originally Posted by claystone

IMHO it should be a meat and hide only population cull, if a bull gets taken the antlers stay behind.

Too many trophy hunters on here sometimes, what difference would it make if you leave the antlers behind or if you do as I do and nail them in the saddle shed for hanging tack? I got a monster 5x6 mulie when I was 15, he now proudly supports bridles and halters in the shed! Along with some pretty impressive elk that my brother got, I've had a few people comment and question why such a big rack is is in the barn rather than mounted on the wall, I find it more useful in the barn rather than collecting dust on the wall in the house.

[leo]

Originally Posted by waterninja

If I wanted to disregard your comment I would have. I'm simply giving you an example/comparison of how the system can and does work. You made it sound that decent folk or tourists are not safe around hunters. I resent that.
Peace baby.

All resentment aside so we dont further risk offending you. The reality is not what you or I think. It is the whole perception of the hunt to the non hunters and anti hunters. It will be fodder for the anti's. A couple wounded critters is all it will take. I've shot more elk, moose and bison than most on here (fact not bravado). Their anatomy is not typical and they are gonna run unless hit through both lungs, heart or central nervous system. And I guarantee it will happen during an open hunt within the park. I have no horse in this race as either way I have no intention to ever partake of this cull or hunt, therefore I don't give a rats ***** of the outcome. I've done all right hunting for the past 37 years on my own terms and away from the crowds and I will continue to. IMO an open hunt as many of you propose will be a black eye for hunters. Even the "tourist" ones like me. 😉

[bb356]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

For sure, it would be an ugly sight. Something that I'd want nothing to do with.

yup