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04-27-2014, 03:23 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 76
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tohatsu outboard smoking
Hi all, i need some help with my 2009 tohatsu 15HP 4 stroke. I bought it last year at the end of the season. Saw it running and it ran fine. stored it all winter in the basement and pulled it out 2 days ago. i did an oil and filter change 10w30 marine full as well as gear oil change, changed the spark plugs, got fresh gas 94 oct. and started it. It started from the second pull, steady water came out of the peehole and all was good. I look away for a sec and water started to slowly stop coming out, then stopped flowing. I turned it off right away. Motor got a little hot. i turn it back on water comes out again but water was boiling hot.. so i turned if off again. Next day i took out the thermostat and did a test and seemed to open and close fine. Then i took apart the leg and replaced the whole water pump kit..put everything back together and started it. Problem solved.. water is coming out steady and good circulation.but i ran into another problem. There now is steady white smoke coming out of the top exhaust hole (not prop). Seems like its burning oil. Now keep in mind, the motor is idiling and running perfect, starts from first pull so its looking healthy. i checked the oil level next day it was down to the middle of the dip stick and when i changed the oil it was on the top of it on the maximum. i start the outboard today after i add oil and run it for 20 minutes run fine but still smoking and the smoke increase when i give more gas, i let it sit for an hour check the oil level still on the max.
Does anyone know what is causing this smoking? What i was thinking is maybe oil got somewhere where it shouldn't have when i tilted it to do the water pump and now its getting burnt? maybe overheated with the previous owner might need a head gasket or maybe worse than that??
please I need some advise on what to do, and does anybody know a marine mechanic in edmonton?
thanks
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04-27-2014, 04:03 PM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 744
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How old is the gas is my first question it may have an excess of water in it other then that it looks as if it is burning coolant (water) if it was burning oil it would be blueish not white. What is the outside temp. As a majority of combustion by product is water vapour(steam) in lower temps it will be more apparent.
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04-27-2014, 06:39 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 537
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you need to pull the plugs out and inspect them.
check the plugs to see if they're covered in oil. If they're covered in oil then you are burning oil. If they're clean then your're burning water.
If its water, then its a head gasket.
if its oil, the you can have a few things going on: Head gasket (very rare) valve seals, or piston rings.
If this engine has over heated in the past (poor water circulation as you mentioned has indicated), then the cylinder walls have mostly likely scored, damaging the rings and pistons therefore causing a poor seal between the combustion chamber and crankcase.
So start with the plugs... let me know
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04-27-2014, 07:24 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 76
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Thanks for the quick reply, but the gas is brand new. I filled it up with 94 octane from husky. The weather is decent, It was about 8 degrees.
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04-27-2014, 07:32 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reel Deal
you need to pull the plugs out and inspect them.
check the plugs to see if they're covered in oil. If they're covered in oil then you are burning oil. If they're clean then your're burning water.
If its water, then its a head gasket.
if its oil, the you can have a few things going on: Head gasket (very rare) valve seals, or piston rings.
If this engine has over heated in the past (poor water circulation as you mentioned has indicated), then the cylinder walls have mostly likely scored, damaging the rings and pistons therefore causing a poor seal between the combustion chamber and crankcase.
So start with the plugs... let me know
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Thanks for the reply, I just took them out and looks like they're dry. I installed them brand new couple days ago. what do you think? i have a good idea about mechanics, is it hard or do I need any special tools to replace the head gasket?
Thanks
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04-27-2014, 09:02 PM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 744
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One looks like it's burning rich and the other look disturbingly clean. Could be from burning oil clean or replace the plugs re gap them and start it up see if it still smokes. If it does do a compression and leak down test should tell you all you need to know.
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04-27-2014, 09:04 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
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I was going to tell you to make it stop smoking cause smoking is bad for your health, but it looks like you have a real problem there.
Are both of the plugs in the bottom photo the new plugs you just installed or are they the old plugs or one of each?
Next, in the photo the smoke looks white. Is that correct or does it have a grayish appearance or a blueish tinge?
One other thing, when you first fire it up does one plug heat up faster then the other plug?
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
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04-27-2014, 09:31 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 76
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hi, they're new plugs gaped to factory specs 0.35
one of them is part white and the other part is greyish;
i did not check which one heat up faster then the other plug
thanks
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04-27-2014, 10:11 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 537
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Since one plug is clean and the other fouled, a compression and leak down test will now determine that either the dirty plug is burning oil or if the clean plug is burning water.
You will either have low compression in one or similar compression in both and one will leak pressure faster than the other.
In either case a tear down is in order. How far down is what the compression test will tell.
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04-27-2014, 10:16 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 537
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I'm calling a head gasket. That plug is way too clean. The other has the right amount of carbon on it. Jmo
Last edited by The Reel Deal; 04-27-2014 at 10:25 PM.
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04-27-2014, 10:27 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,347
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I would do a leak down test and that will let you know were the leak is
And a compression test will help as well to diagnose the motor better
Was it stored up right or laying down?
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04-27-2014, 10:30 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: High Level
Posts: 2,237
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That plug is way too clean.
My money is on a head gasket.
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Beer- Because good stories never start with a salad.
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04-28-2014, 12:24 AM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
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they are new plugs you say.
In that case both should be clean or nearly clean.
I think your smoke is one cylinder burning too rich, a stuck float perhaps or a leak inside one carb. It does have two carbs doesn't it? It could be improperly set carbs but I doubt that. I presume it ran okay last year and that the carbs haven't been touched since. So the most likely scenario is one float or neadle valve stuck open over the winter after the fuel evaporated.
Water wouldn't darken a plug and oil would cause the fouled plug to appear oily. It looks sooty to me. Soot is carbon from too rich of a mixture.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
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04-28-2014, 07:59 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KegRiver
they are new plugs you say.
In that case both should be clean or nearly clean.
I think your smoke is one cylinder burning too rich, a stuck float perhaps or a leak inside one carb. It does have two carbs doesn't it? It could be improperly set carbs but I doubt that. I presume it ran okay last year and that the carbs haven't been touched since. So the most likely scenario is one float or neadle valve stuck open over the winter after the fuel evaporated.
Water wouldn't darken a plug and oil would cause the fouled plug to appear oily. It looks sooty to me. Soot is carbon from too rich of a mixture.
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Isnt it a 4 stroke... with efi? I dont think anyone is using carbs in 2009 unless its a 2 stroke?
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04-28-2014, 09:09 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 821
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Have you tried sea foam? Give it a try it will de gunk entire engine and you might get a clearer idea. If it had compression issues I doubt it would start so easy as you say. Have you tried using thicker oil?
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04-28-2014, 12:01 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,783
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I had the oil smoke on my 20HP Tohatsu last year when I fired it up after winter storage. I topped up the oil to the full mark.
It smoked for a good 15 min. The issue resolved its self after some of the oil burned off.
The motor ran like a top all summer and put many hours on it.
My motor is a 2013 (purchased new Oct in 2012). Topped the oil up to "full" in spring of 2013.
I will not top up the oil to full this year before I take it out on the lake. I will top it up a bit.
Hope this helps.
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04-28-2014, 06:36 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: pigeon lake
Posts: 1,578
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was the engine fogged for winter storage this will give you smoke for quite a while when first started in the spring . one of the new plugs looks oil fouled . it should still look new like the other one. good luck
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05-02-2014, 11:41 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,769
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Just wondering if you have done a compression test yet and what the results were.
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05-02-2014, 06:47 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: My House
Posts: 13,464
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Call Darryl Boe at Europa Marine. He is one of my closest friends and has a factory trained Tohatsu mechanic on staff. 780-237-9757
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05-02-2014, 07:21 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: West Edmonton
Posts: 5,174
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To all the guys saying the spark plug looks to clean, it is brand new it should look clean... The other one shouldn't be near that black though, that cylinder definitely looks like it is running rich.
As stated by others do a compression test, if results are good then run some seafoam or other cleaner through it. Probably just some gunk in the fuel system that needs to be cleaned/burnt off.
If that doesn't work it probably needs to be taken apart and cleaned really good. Possibly needs a tune up although probably shouldn't be the case on such a new engine.
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05-04-2014, 02:08 AM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reel Deal
Isnt it a 4 stroke... with efi? I dont think anyone is using carbs in 2009 unless its a 2 stroke?
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It seems that some are still using carbs in 2014.
2014 Tohatsu 15 hp Four-Stroke Outboard
Fuel Delivery: Single Venturi Carburetor w/ Accelerator Pump
http://www.onlineoutboards.com/Tohat...p-MFS15CL.html
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
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05-04-2014, 08:19 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KegRiver
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I figured I was out to lunch.
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05-04-2014, 08:22 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavYak
To all the guys saying the spark plug looks to clean, it is brand new it should look clean... The other one shouldn't be near that black though, that cylinder definitely looks like it is running rich.
As stated by others do a compression test, if results are good then run some seafoam or other cleaner through it. Probably just some gunk in the fuel system that needs to be cleaned/burnt off.
If that doesn't work it probably needs to be taken apart and cleaned really good. Possibly needs a tune up although probably shouldn't be the case on such a new engine.
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You should try replacing a spark plug, run it for 10 minutes then pull it back out - it won't look new. If this engine was rich, the smoke would be black.
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05-04-2014, 10:25 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: West Edmonton
Posts: 5,174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reel Deal
You should try replacing a spark plug, run it for 10 minutes then pull it back out - it won't look new. If this engine was rich, the smoke would be black.
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The spark plugs out of my car with 150k kms weren't that black...
Google spark plug guide, black and dry means rich or cold. It should have a light brown/tan colour after use, not black. If he kept running it for any length of time that spark plug would come out looking pitch black... If this were a 2 stroke it wouldn't be that odd for it to be black quickly but a properly tuned 4 stroke shouldn't be covered in soot like that after only a few minutes use.
If it isn't something major as a compression test will tell him then it is most likely an issue with the fuel system.
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05-04-2014, 11:20 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sherwood Park
Posts: 4,321
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I see the motor for sale in BS forum, maybe he sold it already as he hasn't posted in a while ,hmm
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05-04-2014, 01:13 PM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 744
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And a white spark plug is an indication of running to lean or water in the combustion chamber. It turns to steam and scours the carbon off everything. I saw it for sale last week. Hopefully he didn't make it someone else's problem for that amount he was asking.
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05-04-2014, 07:51 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavYak
The spark plugs out of my car with 150k kms weren't that black...
Google spark plug guide, black and dry means rich or cold. It should have a light brown/tan colour after use, not black. If he kept running it for any length of time that spark plug would come out looking pitch black... If this were a 2 stroke it wouldn't be that odd for it to be black quickly but a properly tuned 4 stroke shouldn't be covered in soot like that after only a few minutes use.
If it isn't something major as a compression test will tell him then it is most likely an issue with the fuel system.
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Don't need google, I've replaced over 3000 plugs during my career.
You can't compare a carb to efi.
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05-04-2014, 07:58 PM
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: Stony plain
Posts: 467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixel Shooter
I see the motor for sale in BS forum, maybe he sold it already as he hasn't posted in a while ,hmm
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The motor for sale is a 9.8 hp one the one he is having issues with is 15 hp. He must like the brand it happens to be the same brand, I like everyone probally went and looked lol.
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05-04-2014, 08:25 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 711
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I didn't LOL
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05-04-2014, 09:37 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,769
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I did.
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