Align broadhead with vanes

[Passthru]

Picked up some new arrows and will be gluing the inserts in. Does anybody align their broadhead with their vanes on the arrow or is this a waste of time?

[bowhunter9841]

I used to try to do it when I shot three blade broad heads, but now I shoot 4 blades and haven't worried about it. I'm not positive it ever made a difference.

[normanrd]

Some say to align with the vanes and some say stager them with the vanes. When I shot 3 fletch arrows and 3 blade broadheads I tried both ways and it didn't seem to matter. Now that I shoot 4 vane arrows and mechanicals it just don't matter and stuff dies all the time.

Norm

[Arrowhead]

Complete waste of time in my opinion to align vanes with blades. Even if you took the time to do this the arrow is spinning due to vanes being helical or offset, so there is no no credible chance the vane is following in the wake of the respectve blade.

Keep your setup tuned and sharp broadheads and you are good.

[Passthru]

Thanks for the replies. Don't think I'll bother. Kind of what I was thinking already. Gonna have to wait on a few as I only got 4 inserts in a 6 pack of Easton axis. Already email Easton.

[jcrayford]

Some of my mechanicals (Steelheads) have the tiny blades in a helical design within the head.... Doesn't matter if they are aligned with the vanes, as long as I don't do a reverse helical with the vanes....

For that matter, with all my mechs they don't have enough of an impact to worry about it.... Fixed *may* be a different situation; I don't know.

I won't worry about it if I were you.... Just passthru already...

J.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Indexing Vanes to blades have been around since the invent of the three blades themselves...there are several reasons why you may want to...

#1 Makes sense to align blades to vanes to reduce air drag, not aligned is like a six feather flu flu we use to slow arrows down...in theory how much a factor is yet on paper and each shooter is different!

#2 Back in the day I used to index even the two blade heads...indexed with rooster feather/vane or off vane alignment would result in wind Plane-ing... aligned with top hen feather/vane I had same point of impact-POI as field points..

Wind plane-ing a big factor may be results of bow tune...arrow spine...FOC...etc and can change from year to year using exact same setup..

A border tuned bow will see these results more than a total tuned bow...for example I index my G% Striker heads to vanes and achieve same POI almost every year..will see wind plane-ing when not indexed with results anywhere from a couple inches to WHOLLY CRAP...
Telling me of course I had more work on bow...last year had a slight plane even when indexed...added 10 GR weights to back of inserts and volia same POI as field points...

This year I have been playing with spinning inserts which in theory will eliminate wind plane and seems to work for me and will be on my arrows this year...combined with the spin the inserts are about 15 -20 gr more than standard inserts adding good FOC to arrow for best POI...

Below is link pertaining spinning inserts

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=281349

Neil

[Passthru]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Indexing Vanes to blades have been around since the invent of the three blades themselves...there are several reasons why you may want to...

#1 Makes sense to align blades to vanes to reduce air drag, not aligned is like a six feather flu flu we use to slow arrows down...in theory how much a factor is yet on paper and each shooter is different!

#2 Back in the day I used to index even the two blade heads...indexed with rooster feather/vane or off vane alignment would result in wind Plane-ing... aligned with top hen feather/vane I had same point of impact-POI as field points..

Wind plane-ing a big factor may be results of bow tune...arrow spine...FOC...etc and can change from year to year using exact same setup..

A border tuned bow will see these results more than a total tuned bow...for example I index my G% Striker heads to vanes and achieve same POI almost every year..will see wind plane-ing when not indexed with results anywhere from a couple inches to WHOLLY CRAP...
Telling me of course I had more work on bow...last year had a slight plane even when indexed...added 10 GR weights to back of inserts and volia same POI as field points...

This year I have been playing with spinning inserts which in theory will eliminate wind plane and seems to work for me and will be on my arrows this year...combined with the spin the inserts are about 15 -20 gr more than standard inserts adding good FOC to arrow for best POI...

Below is link pertaining spinning inserts

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=281349

Neil

Thanks for the reply. I haven't glued the inserts in and I also use striker broadheads. I will do this as you have experience with the same broadhead, and I like working on my gear to perfect it. I will look into spinning inserts next time, interesting idea. Interested how they work for you.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by Passthru

Thanks for the reply. I haven't glued the inserts in and I also use striker broadheads. I will do this as you have experience with the same broadhead, and I like working on my gear to perfect it. I will look into spinning inserts next time, interesting idea. Interested how they work for you.

One of the easiest methods to index the blades is glue the inserts as normal...than as anyone anal about perfection will own an ASD -Arrow Squaring Device...the G5 ASD is awesome...

It has two cutters ...one to perfectly square the cut arrow, the other side to square insert...amazing how many inserts that are not square...

Once inserts are installed...tighten broadhead...if its slightly off...one turn on the insert using the ASD will align the head perfectly...after a while one knows how much of a turn to make the ASD takes very little off but broadhead moves with so little work...

http://www.g5outdoors.com/g5-outdoor...ssories/#tools

Neil

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Indexing Vanes to blades have been around since the invent of the three blades themselves...there are several reasons why you may want to...

#1 Makes sense to align blades to vanes to reduce air drag, not aligned is like a six feather flu flu we use to slow arrows down...in theory how much a factor is yet on paper and each shooter is different!

#2 Back in the day I used to index even the two blade heads...indexed with rooster feather/vane or off vane alignment would result in wind Plane-ing... aligned with top hen feather/vane I had same point of impact-POI as field points..

Wind plane-ing a big factor may be results of bow tune...arrow spine...FOC...etc and can change from year to year using exact same setup..

A border tuned bow will see these results more than a total tuned bow...for example I index my G% Striker heads to vanes and achieve same POI almost every year..will see wind plane-ing when not indexed with results anywhere from a couple inches to WHOLLY CRAP...
Telling me of course I had more work on bow...last year had a slight plane even when indexed...added 10 GR weights to back of inserts and volia same POI as field points...

This year I have been playing with spinning inserts which in theory will eliminate wind plane and seems to work for me and will be on my arrows this year...combined with the spin the inserts are about 15 -20 gr more than standard inserts adding good FOC to arrow for best POI...

Below is link pertaining spinning inserts

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=281349

Neil

I can't see it making a difference logically as an arrow flexes and spins rapidly it just doesn't make sense to me why it would and in my own test I never found it to make a difference.
There is absolutely no way that a broadhead will reduce drag for a fletch either.

[HoytCRX32]

I've heard arguments both ways..they fly better or flight isn't affected....but I have never heard anyone say that aligning vanes to broadheads NEGATIVELY affects proper fight.

If that's how one rolls, good on em.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

I can't see it making a difference logically as an arrow flexes and spins rapidly it just doesn't make sense to me why it would and in my own test I never found it to make a difference.
There is absolutely no way that a broadhead will reduce drag for a fletch either.

Didn't say it would reduce drag ...meant it will cause less drag...

Neil

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Didn't say it would reduce drag ...meant it will cause less drag...

Neil

Um isn't that the same thing? How would having broad heads aligned with your vanes cause less drag? The draft behind a 0.030" blade is probably only the same as the thickness and with a vane 24" back from that there is no way it would have any effect.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

Um isn't that the same thing? How would having broad heads aligned with your vanes cause less drag? The draft behind a 0.030" blade is probably only the same as the thickness and with a vane 24" back from that there is no way it would have any effect.

No...an arrow going at said speed...didn't say that indexing blades is going to increase speed...means it will likely stay the same...with blades not indexed it will/can put some drag on arrow...slowing arrow ...enough to make a difference probably not but that fact is there...

Put an bareshaft arrow thru a chrony at longer distance...not at bow...then put a arrow with vanes at same difference...that will prove the point...

Neil

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by HoytCRX32

I've heard arguments both ways..they fly better or flight isn't affected....but I have never heard anyone say that aligning vanes to broadheads NEGATIVELY affects proper fight.

If that's how one rolls, good on em.

keeping in mind just because one indexes or aligns vanes to broadheads its not going to give you a no wind planning arrow...on a border tuned bow ...it can/will plane regardless of where blades are aligned...

Neil

[HoytCRX32]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

keeping in mind just because one indexes or aligns vanes to broadheads its not going to give you a no wind planning arrow...on a border tuned bow ...it can/will plane regardless of where blades are aligned...

Neil

I'd agree with that.

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

No...an arrow going at said speed...didn't say that indexing blades is going to increase speed...means it will likely stay the same...with blades not indexed it will/can put some drag on arrow...slowing arrow ...enough to make a difference probably not but that fact is there...

Put an bareshaft arrow thru a chrony at longer distance...not at bow...then put a arrow with vanes at same difference...that will prove the point...

Neil

Neither did I!
Neil I am not following your logic here at all you are saying an arrow with indexed broadhead blades to vanes will have less drag than one without indexed broadhead blade to vanes? Please explain the logic in that.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

Neither did I!
Neil I am not following your logic here at all you are saying an arrow with indexed broadhead blades to vanes will have less drag than one without indexed broadhead blade to vanes? Please explain the logic in that.

Really...Ok Mike...I will draw you a picture

Remembering your physics ...

Two arrows flying thru the air...which arrow will have less drag and chance of wind plane-ing





Neil

[normanrd]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Really...Ok Mike...I will draw you a picture

Remembering your physics ...

Two arrows flying thru the air...which arrow will have less drag and chance of wind plane-ing





Neil

This only works if the arrow isn't spinning. It would be interesting to see how the blades and the vanes lined up in a real life situation where the back of the arrow is essentially 2 feet behind the front and rotating. Might be an eye opener? Maybe the vanes miss aligned with the broadhead blades falls closer to being aligned better during flight?

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by normanrd

This only works if the arrow isn't spinning. It would be interesting to see how the blades and the vanes lined up in a real life situation where the back of the arrow is essentially 2 feet behind the front and rotating. Might be an eye opener? Maybe the vanes miss aligned with the broadhead blades falls closer to being aligned better during flight?

Good point Norm...why we should avoid straight fletched on broadhead tipped arrows like the plaque and why we use offset...
not as much spin as helical but there is spin...which as you say is a factor also...

all we need is a camera set up so it travels 300 FPS plus and on an calculated arc and we can shoot at it hoping our bow is not faster...lol
as you say Norm would be interesting to see...

Neil

Neil

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Really...Ok Mike...I will draw you a picture

Remembering your physics ...

Two arrows flying thru the air...which arrow will have less drag and chance of wind plane-ing





Neil

I remember my physics well and you might have a valid point if the vanes were 0.030" behind your broadhead but facts are when the vanes are 24+inches behind the broadhead the broadhead simply does not "cut" any wind for the vanes and the force or air resistance is the same regardless.

Look up areo dynamics of a car or truck the only dead air or draft is minimal in comparison to the item displacing the air to begin with and when you are talking about a broadhead with blades 0.030" thick the air displacement or draft would be so miniscule it would be un-noticeable. Nulling any point you are trying to make up.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Regardless of index the arrow has the same surface area...the broadhead does not pave the way for tfletchea of the arrow, but indexing causes the arrow to steer from the front and the back with the same dynamics of flight. That's the only benefit I can see if there one at all.

LC

[backyard]

if you shoot the spinning inserts indexing wont matter

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by backyard

if you shoot the spinning inserts indexing wont matter

It can't matter...indexing can't be done

LC

[catnthehat]

I have always set my broad heads horizontal when the Artie I'd resting on the now whether I used 3 of 4 first half , and only ever used two beaded heads like the Zwickey
Cat

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Regardless of index the arrow has the same surface area...the broadhead does not pave the way for tfletchea of the arrow, but indexing causes the arrow to steer from the front and the back with the same dynamics of flight. That's the only benefit I can see if there one at all.

LC

Agreed...some broadheads can act like fletching on front of arrow affecting the steering of arrow...so a border line tuned bow for example...if arrow kicks or leaves bow left...with some it may steer right of field point POI...if arrow leaves bow or kick high it may result in a low POI...

Regardless of indexing or aligning...

Indexing or aligning may improve or exaggerate that flight...

For those that say it doesn't matter how they align or index a fixed head...great work on a well tuned bow and set up!!

Neil