6.5 Grendal Kills, including a 752 yrd speed goat

[Norwest Alta]

[QUOTE=roper1;3803474]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I shot a buck in the shoulder with my 300wsm and never did catch up to him, so the 300wsm is obviously a bit lacking.

Appreciate the honesty, Kurt, it has happened to most of us if we've hunted enough. This will happen a lot more as so-called hunters/conservationists try to take game at longer & longer distances with smaller & smaller guns!

X2

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by chuck

You do realize a veterinarian is a dr of animal medicine don’t you? Some might consider that an expert in the field.

Best he stay in that field as he obviously was out of his league when it comes to firearms vs animals.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

So you made a marginal shot with a 300 wsm on a deer and you never found it.. What do you suppose will happen with a marginal shot with a Grendel ?
Ethically do you think it’s right to rely on a cartridge that “may” perform under only ideal circumstances?

A marginal shot on a deer with a Grendel wouldn't even cause it to lose a minutes sleep! I mean, without 50gr of gun powder and 160gr of lead some people would say keep it to ground squirrels and grouse!!

In all seriousness, the point I've proved is that it doesn't matter if it's a Grendel or a 300wsm, a bad shot is a bad shot! Guaranteed if I had been in the exact same location, shooting at the exact same deer, only using a Grendel and hit it just a little lower and a little further back, that deer would be dead.

People give way too much credit to animals and have no idea of the actual power of any firearm. I know a guy really well who killed a deer with one shot in the neck from a 22.

A 22!!!

The math and science will say what speed a bullet will perform properly at and how much energy it will have, it will tell you which vital organs will cause death when exposed to trauma. Marksmanship will allow you to place the bullet where it has to go in order to cause trauma to the vital organs. When you put this all together you have the recipe for a successful big game harvest.

I've killed bull moose at over 500yds with a 140gr fail safe out of my 280rem, I've killed bull elk at over 500yds with a 165gr trophy bonded bear claw out of a 308win, both one shot kills. I never bothered to do the math on what kind of speed and energy I was running, but the one common denominator was a hole in the heart. Besides the buck I lost, I once shot another buck from head on and hit him in the left shoulder with a 300 win mag. I chased that buck from 8 in the morning until 3:30 in the afternoon when I finally caught up to him and finished him off. So after 37 years of big game hunting I've come to the realization (well I figured it out a few years back), that it doesn't matter what gun you have in your hands, if you're within its kill range and you put the bullet where it's supposed to go, you'll kill what you shoot, I've also proved that a big gun won't make a marginal shot good.

Math and science along with good marksmanship is what kills, not cartridge selection.

[JD848]

Originally Posted by Salavee

I was talking with a gunmaker the other day and asked him if my neighbors Cat was pregnant. He said he didn't know.

X2 Best post of the day,keep them coming.

[marky_mark]

Sounds to me like you have a bad flinch
And you have a bunch of winners for buddy's
That's what I'm hearing
My internet research says that you should try shooting a gun with a little more weight
It might help with that flinch

Good luck


QUOTE=Kurt505;3803512]A marginal shot on a deer with a Grendel wouldn't even cause it to lose a minutes sleep! I mean, without 50gr of gun powder and 160gr of lead some people would say keep it to ground squirrels and grouse!!

In all seriousness, the point I've proved is that it doesn't matter if it's a Grendel or a 300wsm, a bad shot is a bad shot! Guaranteed if I had been in the exact same location, shooting at the exact same deer, only using a Grendel and hit it just a little lower and a little further back, that deer would be dead.

People give way too much credit to animals and have no idea of the actual power of any firearm. I know a guy really well who killed a deer with one shot in the neck from a 22.

A 22!!!

The math and science will say what speed a bullet will perform properly at and how much energy it will have, it will tell you which vital organs will cause death when exposed to trauma. Marksmanship will allow you to place the bullet where it has to go in order to cause trauma to the vital organs. When you put this all together you have the recipe for a successful big game harvest.

I've killed bull moose at over 500yds with a 140gr fail safe out of my 280rem, I've killed bull elk at over 500yds with a 165gr trophy bonded bear claw out of a 308win, both one shot kills. I never bothered to do the math on what kind of speed and energy I was running, but the one common denominator was a hole in the heart. Besides the buck I lost, I once shot another buck from head on and hit him in the left shoulder with a 300 win mag. I chased that buck from 8 in the morning until 3:30 in the afternoon when I finally caught up to him and finished him off. So after 37 years of big game hunting I've come to the realization (well I figured it out a few years back), that it doesn't matter what gun you have in your hands, if you're within its kill range and you put the bullet where it's supposed to go, you'll kill what you shoot, I've also proved that a big gun won't make a marginal shot good.

Math and science along with good marksmanship is what kills, not cartridge selection.[/QUOTE]

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by roper1

This will happen a lot more as so-called hunters/conservationists try to take game at longer & longer distances with smaller & smaller guns!

I agree with half of what you say here. The problem isn't the cartridge selection, it's the long bombers who have no business attempting it, guys who watch too much wild tv and figure you just range, point, and shoot. There isn't an animal alive that can withstand an expanded bullet through the heart, nor is there an animal alive that will drop dead from a bullet through the knee, no matter what cartridge is used. A Grendel shooting a 123gr bullet will drop a deer way faster with a bullet through the heart at 500yds than a 30-378wby mag through a deers knee at 50yds...... that's a fact.

Ideally I like to keep my shots to 300yds and under but there are times when I've taken longer shots but there always with a good rest in ideal conditions. I regularly shoot my rifles out to 800yds so I know my rifles and reticles. I've also spent the time to learn my projectiles run my loads through my chronograph so I know what kind of performance I will get out of each cartridge I use.

Without shooting a magnum I've decided I won't shoot out past 600yds with my long actions and 400yds with my short actions, and that's under ideal conditions. I've passed on my share of animals and don't regret passing on any of them.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Sounds to me like you have a bad flinch
And you have a bunch of winners for buddy's
That's what I'm hearing
My internet research says that you should try shooting a gun with a little more weight
It might help with that flinch

Well it sounds to me like you got a bad hearing problem.

You should be researching how to become a better hunter rather than worrying about how big of a gun you need to help you with your flinch.

[marky_mark]

[QUOTE=roper1;3803474]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I shot a buck in the shoulder with my 300wsm and never did catch up to him, so the 300wsm is obviously a bit lacking.

Appreciate the honesty, Kurt, it has happened to most of us if we've hunted enough. This will happen a lot more as so-called hunters/conservationists try to take game at longer & longer distances with smaller & smaller guns!

X3

I'm not the one wounded as these deer there bud

It's not a competition to see how small of a bullet you can use to kill a deer as far away as possible
It's about giving that animal the respect it deserves and to put it down swiftly and humanely

Give your head a shake

For the sake of the deer... Stick to your needmoor

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

X3

I'm not the one wounded as these deer there bud

It's not a competition to see how small of a bullet you can use to kill a deer as far away as possible
It's about giving that animal the respect it deserves and to put it down swiftly and humanely

Give your head a shake

For the sake of the deer... Stick to your needmoor

Lol, ok there slayer. It's apparent you haven't got a clue about what you're talking about, nor do you have much experience in the way of hunting. Stick to your google searches and learn a bit more, and maybe read a few of my posts and have someone explain them to you, you might get butt hurt when you find out my cartridge history.

[Norwest Alta]

Imo there is “no replacement for displacement “. This is why I shoot a 338 wm. It’ll do anything and everything the creedmore will do. More then likely do a little more.

[Stinky Coyote]

Outstanding! Some hilarious stuff.

I didn't compare the 6.5 G to the 30-30, have no doubt it whoops it's arse.

Could not agree more with a bad shot is a bad shot regardless of headstamp. We've all lost or been apart of someone losing game. It's called hunting not killing. They have a chance to beat you and you have a chance to screw up. You put any of these headstamps where its supposed to go within what we know from the math in modern terms then it's going to kill things so much further than most would try...just that most cannot or should not be trying to see the limits of a cartridge potential on game.

The whole point of these discussions are to simply show those limits. Compared to old standards we already know. So we can apply the knowledge to our own personal standards of hunting that we've learned on our own by trial and error or otherwise self imposed limits etc.

Lets remove the shooters from these discussions, we are discussing the cartridges capabilities with not only known math to prove things but to simply verify the actual kills being made out there already and have been happening for years and years.

The Grendel has been around for over a decade and have yet to come across threads about it being an underachiever of any sort, the general consensus you'll find is there just isn't a doubt in it's ability and people are well pleased with this cartridge for any situation they are using them. A ton of stuff has died by this cartridge already. Officially introduced at the 2004 Shot Show...that's 14 years ago now.

[Stinky Coyote]

The main point i'm trying to stimulate and educate here is for the majority of hunters in the majority of situations...the Grendel will not leave you wanting. Pretty much all big game is harvested under 300 yards and the percentage goes higher exponentially for what's actually harvested under 200 yards. Many long term hunters have relied on the .243 for all big game up to 300 yards here for ages. You could do the same with the Grendel, the math and dead animals confirm.

Because the projectile is heavier, higher b.c., higher s.d. but still driven fast enough...it's gets the job done more efficiently than a .243 period. You burn 20 more grains of powder in the .243 to compensate for the sad b.c. and s.d. and lightweight projectile. That's the bottom line.

Using more speed to compensate is a common formula but not efficient. The reason the old swede or 30-30 did so well wasn't because of the speed. They were fast enough but the projectiles themselves were the real key, not the headstamp. Sure doesn't hurt to have something that more people shoot better because of lower recoils either but that's getting back to the shooter side of the discussion, we want to stick to the cartridges here.

[catnthehat]

A dead animal at 300 yards is just that- dead. Doesn't matter if it came from a 6mm bullet, 6.5mm bullet ,a 7mm or a 7.62 fir that matter .
More better, more efficient or whatever you want to call it is a matter of opinion more than anything .
A person should hunt within their personal accuracy limits with suitable cartridges , period .
Cat

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

A dead animal at 300 yards is just that- dead. Doesn't matter if it came from a 6mm bullet, 6.5mm bullet ,a 7mm or a 7.62 fir that matter .
More better, more efficient or whatever you want to call it is a matter of opinion more than anything .
A person should hunt within their personal accuracy limits with suitable cartridges , period .
Cat

This makes total sense. It's interesting to note that when all this 6.5 stuff started on here a few weeks ago, it was all about a 6.5 CM at 600 yds. Lately it shifted to a Grendel at 750 yds. etc etc.
Now we are down to 300 yds where things begin to come together.
At 300 yds any legal cartridge is a capable BG cartridge in the right hands. Nobody has suggested otherwise. All good.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Best he stay in that field as he obviously was out of his league when it comes to firearms vs animals.

No he isn’t. His eutheniser is the 223. I’m not sure how your gunsmith would know more.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Salavee

This makes total sense. It's interesting to note that when all this 6.5 stuff started on here a few weeks ago, it was all about a 6.5 CM at 600 yds. Lately it shifted to a Grendel at 750 yds. etc etc.
Now we are down to 300 yds where things begin to come together.
At 300 yds any legal cartridge is a capable BG cartridge in the right hands. Nobody has suggested otherwise. All good.

No, you are pulling what you want out of conversation and ignoring the rest.

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by chuck

No he isn’t. His eutheniser is the 223.

22 don't work for him? Interesting but being a vet I guess he'd know more then most.

[Stinky Coyote]

Agreed.

The 752 yard speed goat was a demonstration of what the math has said. Very few of us have the equipment or skills to push any legal big game cartridge to it's limits like that particular example. I'm sure less than 1% of us are capable of that on a regular basis.

People look at things and make assumptions too quickly more often than not. Another fantastic modern cartridge that simply needs a bit more education to big picture is all.

Federal has four factory ammo's for it including a gold medal match load, fusion load etc. Hornady has two excellent factory ammo's for it with the sst hunting load and the eld match load. There's a bunch more options also but like the Creedmoor it was designed well from the beginning, saami spec set up properly with fast twist barrels for these high b.c. projectiles etc. so one can go long for any reason.

Load development is a snap and accuracy is there from the get go. Reloaders are getting 2650 to 2750 fps with 123 gr bullets from 20-24" barrels without issue. Those are great numbers for burning 30 grains of powder, the bonus with 3rd class game appropriate projectiles with s.d. over .250 and high b.c. over .5(G1). There's a lot to love there.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by chuck

No, you are pulling what you want out of conversation and ignoring the rest.

Ain't that the truth!

[Stinky Coyote]

What the Creedmoor is to a short action magazine length(AR-10 magazines) limitation as a must requirement from inception....the Grendel is exactly that for the AR-15 Magazine length rule from inception.

Reality is the Grendel did it first, released in 2004. The Creedmoor was released in 2007. They could have come from the same guys as the formula seems so identical. Just two guys went after the AR-15 platform restrictions and the other two guys went after the AR-10 platform restrictions. So both could be considered superior alternatives to the .223 & .308. And they both are superior alternatives.

The Grendel has recoil energy between a .223 and .243 although i actually find the Grendel to push a little harder than the .243 i have. It surprised me. The math says the recoil energy is higher with the .243 but it doesn't feel that way. You will be surprised when you touch off a 6.5 Grendel if you think it will be anything like a .223, not even close. It put a smile on my face, no doubt you realize you're pulling the trigger on more than a varmint cartridge.

The Creedmoor will go another 225 yards further with a bit more lead/b.c./s.d. than a Grendel but the Grendel goes far enough for 90+% of us which i find pretty fascinating for fitting micro action length and only burning 30 grains of powder. Versatile as f___.

So there you go. Which one was the egg and which one was the chicken?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

What the Creedmoor is to a short action magazine length(AR-10 magazines) limitation as a must requirement from inception....the Grendel is exactly that for the AR-15 Magazine length rule from inception.

Reality is the Grendel did it first, released in 2004. The Creedmoor was released in 2007. They could have come from the same guys as the formula seems so identical. Just two guys went after the AR-15 platform restrictions and the other two guys went after the AR-10 platform restrictions. So both could be considered superior alternatives to the .223 & .308. And they both are superior alternatives.

So there you go. Which one was the egg and which one was the chicken?

What about the 6.5x47 loopy?

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

What about the 6.5x47 loopy?

No

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Lol, ok there slayer. It's apparent you haven't got a clue about what you're talking about, nor do you have much experience in the way of hunting. Stick to your google searches and learn a bit more, and maybe read a few of my posts and have someone explain them to you, you might get butt hurt when you find out my cartridge history.

Lol
You must know what your talking about.. look at the number of posts you have
Your an internet legend
Or... your someone that just like to hear yourself speak

I wouldn’t worry about me. I do ok
If I’m looking for advice, believe me, I’m not getting it from you

Hope you cure your flinch by the fall

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Lol
You must know what your talking about.. look at the number of posts you have
Your an internet legend
Or... your someone that just like to hear yourself speak

I wouldn’t worry about me. I do ok
If I’m looking for advice, believe me, I’m not getting it from you

Hope you cure your flinch by the fall

All I'm going to say is there's an old adage that comes to mind when I read your posts,

It's better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.

I'm looking forward to seeing your trophy pics come this fall!

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

All I'm going to say is there's an old adage that comes to mind when I read your posts,

It's better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.

I'm looking forward to seeing your trophy pics come this fall!

I know I'm looking forward to Mark's pics, more so then the story of the one that got away.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

I know I'm looking forward to Mark's pics, more so then the story of the one that got away.

I don't know why it's so hard to comprehend that a bullet in the right place kills and one in the wrong place doesn't. Are you going to tell me you've killed every animal you've ever shot at?

I've been guiding for 20 years and have had to track way more animals that were shot with magnum rifles than I'd care to mention. I know that I've never lost an animal that was shot through the heart or lungs with any cartridge. I have a client who has come up every year since 2000, he started with a 338 win mag, then 30-378, then 338-378, then a Nosler 26, guess what he just bought for this fall....... a 280ai. So far he's killed more animals with my 280's than he has with his own rifles. It took a few years but he's learned that a big gun is great for the ego, but it doesn't make the animals any more dead. Sooner or later most hunters figure that out.

[marky_mark]

Ya Kamchatka is going up be pretty bad ass
Not looking forward to the flight
Only 10 hours and 9 time zones from Moscow
Then a 12 hour drive

Weird thing is the outfitter said to bring my 300 win with 20 expanding and 20 solids?
Think I’m going to bring some a-frames and eldx’s that should be ok medicine for the big bears and moose
I was really lucky and got to go on a goat hunt in bc with A weatherby award winner who’s shot, I think, 96 Cape buffalo. Hes a great guy! Tons of knowledge and experience. On a few shows, writes for a few magazines, written a few books. It’s pretty awesome to be able to call him up and ask him for his advice considering he’s done everything.

Before Kamchatka I’m going to the Jurassic classic and can put some pics up from that too

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I don't know why it's so hard to comprehend that a bullet in the right place kills and one in the wrong place doesn't. Are you going to tell me you've killed every animal you've ever shot at?

I've been guiding for 20 years and have had to track way more animals that were shot with magnum rifles than I'd care to mention. I know that I've never lost an animal that was shot through the heart or lungs with any cartridge. I have a client who has come up every year since 2000, he started with a 338 win mag, then 30-378, then 338-378, then a Nosler 26, guess what he just bought for this fall....... a 280ai. So far he's killed more animals with my 280's than he has with his own rifles. It took a few years but he's learned that a big gun is great for the ego, but it doesn't make the animals any more dead. Sooner or later most hunters figure that out.

Not gonna tell you anything except the last gun you'll ever see in my safe is a 6.5 CM. Not because it won't work but because I don't need to rely on a big advertising campaign to tell me how good it is. Did that once with a slap chop once.

Yes I'm looking forward to Mark's pictures then the one or multiples that got away stories much like the ones of your clients.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Ya Kamchatka is going up be pretty bad ass
Not looking forward to the flight
Only 10 hours and 9 time zones from Moscow
Then a 12 hour drive

Weird thing is the outfitter said to bring my 300 win with 20 expanding and 20 solids?
Think I’m going to bring some a-frames and eldx’s that should be ok medicine for the big bears and moose
I was really lucky and got to go on a goat hunt in bc with A weatherby award winner who’s shot, I think, 96 Cape buffalo. Hes a great guy! Tons of knowledge and experience. On a few shows, writes for a few magazines, written a few books. It’s pretty awesome to be able to call him up and ask him for his advice considering he’s done everything.

Before Kamchatka I’m going to the Jurassic classic and can put some pics up from that too

Maybe ask him if headstamps kill animals.

Looking forward to the pics

[Stinky Coyote]

Loving this, way to keep it clean still everyone. Informational and entertaining, how can we go wrong.

I'm sure there's an element with established outfitters in remote parts of the world that haven't even heard of half the cartridges. They will know of a handful and likely be ballistically challenged at best. So there's that lol...just bring a magnum and you'll be alright lol.

I wouldn't even ask what i should bring and i wouldn't talk much about it. Having said that i'd be taking more than a Grendel for a moose/bear hunt that cost a lot of money to go do. I'd want a Creedmoor with 140's. Get me within 600 and shat's gonna die.