6.5 Grendal Kills, including a 752 yrd speed goat

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I don't know why it's so hard to comprehend that a bullet in the right place kills and one in the wrong place doesn't. Are you going to tell me you've killed every animal you've ever shot at?

I've been guiding for 20 years and have had to track way more animals that were shot with magnum rifles than I'd care to mention. I know that I've never lost an animal that was shot through the heart or lungs with any cartridge. I have a client who has come up every year since 2000, he started with a 338 win mag, then 30-378, then 338-378, then a Nosler 26, guess what he just bought for this fall....... a 280ai. So far he's killed more animals with my 280's than he has with his own rifles. It took a few years but he's learned that a big gun is great for the ego, but it doesn't make the animals any more dead. Sooner or later most hunters figure that out.

Wow impressive 20 years guiding. Gonna figure you're knowledgeable then? So all these animals that your client missed or wounded in your expert opinion, was it the gun chambering fault or the clients fault?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Not gonna tell you anything except the last gun you'll ever see in my safe is a 6.5 CM. Not because it won't work but because I don't need to rely on a big advertising campaign to tell me how good it is. Did that once with a slap chop once.

Yes I'm looking forward to Mark's pictures then the one or multiples that got away stories much like the ones of your clients.

I'm not trying to tell you what to put in your safe, but it's good to know that you realize the only problem with the Creedmoor is your personal feelings about it.

How many stories you figure you're going to hear about from guys that lose their animals? I told you about the one I lost with a 300wsm, my only experience with a 6.5 hunt was with my 260rem and a dead bull elk at 250yds so I can't tell you about one that got away because I was under gunned.

Serious question here, have you killed every animal you hit?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Wow impressive 20 years guiding. Gonna figure you're knowledgeable then? So all these animals that your client missed or wounded in your expert opinion, was it the gun chambering fault or the clients fault?

Is this a serious question?

I hope not, because the answer is the entire premise of my argument here.

Again, have you killed every animal you've ever hit?

The only person I know right now that can honestly answer no to that question is my 15yr old son and that's because of his limited hunting experience. Seriously.

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I'm not trying to tell you what to put in your safe, but it's good to know that you realize the only problem with the Creedmoor is your personal feelings about it.

How many stories you figure you're going to hear about from guys that lose their animals? I told you about the one I lost with a 300wsm, my only experience with a 6.5 hunt was with my 260rem and a dead bull elk at 250yds so I can't tell you about one that got away because I was under gunned.

Serious question here, have you killed every animal you hit?

Serious answer. No and to tell the truth there is no excuse that I can come up with other then it was my own fault. It would be nice to put the blame on other things but it all boils down to me not doing my part.

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Is this a serious question?

I hope not, because the answer is the entire premise of my argument here.

There's more then one question. Which one are you trying to figure out if it's serious or not?

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Maybe ask him if headstamps kill animals.

Looking forward to the pics

Seems to me that it's the ctge headstamp that differentiates between the various cartridges/calibers and their capabilities. How would you suggest they do it ? .. by the difference in projectiles ? It's always the shooter that does the killing, or not killing thing.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Serious answer. No and to tell the truth there is no excuse that I can come up with other then it was my own fault. It would be nice to put the blame on other things but it all boils down to me not doing my part.

That's exactly what my point has been this whole time. Headstamps don't kill, a properly placed bullet within its effective performance range does though.

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

That's exactly what my point has been this whole time. Headstamps don't kill, a properly placed bullet within its effective performance range does though.

Who has disputed that?

I'm not a mind reader but my hunting resume doesn't include 20 years of guiding so I'm curious about your expert opinion on your clients choiçe of gun chambering and how that was the problem with lost or wounded animals but using a 280 solved the problem? I'm not a mind reader but I'm going to figure that none of the guns were the problem. The problem is the client. Yes or no?

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

That's exactly what my point has been this whole time. Headstamps don't kill, a properly placed bullet within its effective performance range does though.

Effective range? Do you decide this? Based on the math, your shooting ability or chucks vet?

[Stinky Coyote]

The 'math' or ballistics wasn't just pulled from thin air. Bullet design/contruction, weight, S.D., impact velocity are all important factors in this math. Bullets are designed to do a job within a certain impact velocity range. The headstamp can tell you more about suitability with a given bullet choice but that's about it.

Effective range will almost always be much further than the shooter's ability. So there's no point arguing that. A guy killed an antelope at 752 yards with a Grendel...at the very end of the effective range of that particular cartridge. All that simply does is show you the math is valid and the hundred or so years it's been studied and learned about didn't happen by accident. You can trust it completely. So many guys apparently scared of change or scared of the math, others embrace it. Some just use it as a tool to help choose based on parameters they may want.

Don't question the math. You'll lose every time. Question the shooter...of course. That is the variable that seems to be getting lost in the mix. There's efficient horsepower and inefficient horsepower. Right now in ballistics land you'll get the most out of high b.c. s.d. bullets, regardless of diam. or cartridge or amount of powder burned. The 6.5's represent a middle range of acceptable bullet weights with high b.c. and s.d. so they make awesome hunting bullets. Pick your powder column and prepare to have your expectations exceeded...and it's that math that does it...not a bunch of extra powder and magnum in the name.

The reality is most peoples effective range is under 300 yards lol. Anything we've talked about will do the job. Grendel included. It's not an 'if', it's a known, it's been doing the job for 14 years already. The Creedmoor for 11 years. Overachievers...

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Who has disputed that?

I'm not a mind reader but my hunting resume doesn't include 20 years of guiding so I'm curious about your expert opinion on your clients choiçe of gun chambering and how that was the problem with lost or wounded animals but using a 280 solved the problem? I'm not a mind reader but I'm going to figure that none of the guns were the problem. The problem is the client. Yes or no?

The 280 never solved the problem, it's an example of how this client progressed, first thinking he needed the biggest magnum to kill an animal then realizing it's not the cartridge that kills, it's where you put the bullet.

100% it's shooter error, it seems we're on the same side of the fence. I don't need a magnum rifle because I don't intend on shooting any big game animals out past 600yds, and if I have the Creedmoor most likely nothing past 400yds.

A bullets effective range is based on its design so it varies, but my limits are less than whatever cartridge I'm shooting. I think very few people should be attempting to shoot past 300yds because most people don't spend the time behind the trigger to be proficient past that, and that's why I figure the Grendel is a legitimate big game cartridge.


If I ever decided to get into the long range hunting game I'd be looking at an STW, but my long range shooting is limited to plinking and that's where my Creedmoor will shine. Cheap ammo, easy on the shoulder and just flat out fun to shoot. More trigger time means more accuracy, more accuracy means more success in the field.

[cowmanbob]

I can hardly wait for hunting season....

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

The 280 never solved the problem, it's an example of how this client progressed, first thinking he needed the biggest magnum to kill an animal then realizing it's not the cartridge that kills, it's where you put the bullet.

100% it's shooter error, it seems we're on the same side of the fence. I don't need a magnum rifle because I don't intend on shooting any big game animals out past 600yds, and if I have the Creedmoor most likely nothing past 400yds.

A bullets effective range is based on its design so it varies, but my limits are less than whatever cartridge I'm shooting. I think very few people should be attempting to shoot past 300yds because most people don't spend the time behind the trigger to be proficient past that, and that's why I figure the Grendel is a legitimate big game cartridge.


If I ever decided to get into the long range hunting game I'd be looking at an STW, but my long range shooting is limited to plinking and that's where my Creedmoor will shine. Cheap ammo, easy on the shoulder and just flat out fun to shoot. More trigger time means more accuracy, more accuracy means more success in the field.

Just to clarify ... Your LR hunting game is limited to what ? Seems to me you posted a couple of hunting LR kill/lost instances where the distances were well over 300 yds .That might be considered Long Range. .. for some.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Just to clarify ... Your LR hunting game is limited to what ? Seems to me you posted a couple of hunting LR kill/lost instances where the distances were well over 300 yds .That might be considered Long Range. .. for some.

Some of my shots could be considered out of range for some people but well within others comfort range. The only animal I've ever shot over 600yds is a coyote. I'm comfortable shooting out to 600yds with my 280ai, I have a BRH reticle which I know well and I know when it's too windy to attempt a shot at longer ranges.

I've shot a few animals over 500yds, but I shoot a few hundred rounds a year, and probably over a hundred between 500-800yds. I am by no means what I would consider a long range shooter, to me long range is 600yds+

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Maybe ask him if headstamps kill animals.

Looking forward to the pics

You sound like my brother in law
One of those guys who is 5’6” 140 lbs soaking wet
My socks are whiter than your socks kinda person

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

You sound like my brother in law
One of those guys who is 5’6” 140 lbs soaking wet
My socks are whiter than your socks kinda person

Awe, what's the matter? Did you call your buddy and now you got hurt feelings? Go buy a big gun and get your manhood back, sounds like you'll need a 338 lapua to get you back on track

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Awe, what's the matter? Did you call your buddy and now you got hurt feelings? Go buy a big gun and get your manhood back, sounds like you'll need a 338 lapua to get you back on track

Uh sorry I have a business to run and can’t spend all day on here
My manhood is just fine
I don’t have a flinch so magnum rifles are what I prefer.
You seem to be ok with wounding animals but I try to avoid it
Already have a 338 lapua, it probably weighs as much as that Remington sps you just got. It shoots like a dream.. drives tacks and gives just a gentle push
Don’t be bitter at the world just because you cant handle a little gun powder

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Uh sorry I have a business to run and can’t spend all day on here
My manhood is just fine
I don’t have a flinch so magnum rifles are what I prefer.
You seem to be ok with wounding animals but I try to avoid it
Already have a 338 lapua, it probably weighs as much as that Remington sps you just got. It shoots like a dream.. drives tacks and gives just a gentle push
Don’t be bitter at the world just because you cant handle a little gun powder

Lol, ok marky go run your business, glad to hear you still have some manhood.

What an awesome post by the way. Seems even with your heavy gun you're having a hard time with the flinch trying not to wound animals. Don't bother trying to become a better marksman, bigger guns and high capacity mags seem to be all you'll need.

[Big Sky]

This has taken a nasty turn.

[Norwest Alta]

I'm not a professional hunter or guide like yourself Kurt, but I've hunted in some interesting places. I've shot critters big and small,near and far using a variety of different calibers and chamberings. What I've learned from my hunting experience is the biggest gun you can shoot comfortably and accurately is the one to take. The reason I say this is because on a occasion or two I've been out deer hunting and come across a elk. It is nice to be able to reach out the 400 yards and anchor him with confidence. Your beloved 6.5 may be a good deer or gopher gun but given a choice I'd take something with more hp behind it all the time everytime.

[sns2]

Get this back on track.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

I'm not a professional hunter or guide like yourself Kurt, but I've hunted in some interesting places. I've shot critters big and small,near and far using a variety of different calibers and chamberings. What I've learned from my hunting experience is the biggest gun you can shoot comfortably and accurately is the one to take. The reason I say this is because on a occasion or two I've been out deer hunting and come across a elk. It is nice to be able to reach out the 400 yards and anchor him with confidence. Your beloved 6.5 may be a good deer or gopher gun but given a choice I'd take something with more hp behind it all the time everytime.

Not much more needs to be said

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

I'm not a professional hunter or guide like yourself Kurt, but I've hunted in some interesting places. I've shot critters big and small,near and far using a variety of different calibers and chamberings. What I've learned from my hunting experience is the biggest gun you can shoot comfortably and accurately is the one to take. The reason I say this is because on a occasion or two I've been out deer hunting and come across a elk. It is nice to be able to reach out the 400 yards and anchor him with confidence. Your beloved 6.5 may be a good deer or gopher gun but given a choice I'd take something with more hp behind it all the time everytime.

X2
Exactly

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

I'm not a professional hunter or guide like yourself Kurt, but I've hunted in some interesting places. I've shot critters big and small,near and far using a variety of different calibers and chamberings. What I've learned from my hunting experience is the biggest gun you can shoot comfortably and accurately is the one to take. The reason I say this is because on a occasion or two I've been out deer hunting and come across a elk. It is nice to be able to reach out the 400 yards and anchor him with confidence. Your beloved 6.5 may be a good deer or gopher gun but given a choice I'd take something with more hp behind it all the time everytime.

There is no doubt that the extra horsepower will extend the kill range, and if you have confidence in your cartridge that will also help things out. The furthest elk I killed was about 550yds and was with a 165gr bullet in my 308 before I knew about ballistic coefficients, sectional densities or kinetic energy. I just knew about where to hold for 500yds and let er' go. I'd be willing to bet that the 143gr ELDX from the Creedmoor would be running similar energy at that range and would most likely have the same end result, but if it were to happen today I think I'd be sneaking in a bit closer.

I just got an interesting phone call from my Dad 10 minutes ago, he said the biggest bear he's ever seen in his 74yrs is in our field right now, says the head is a foot and a half wide. I might take a road trip tomorrow evening and see what the Creedmoor can do. Right now all my Dad has is a 22 and he was asking me where he should shoot it!!!

[Big Sky]

At first I thought these 6.5 threads were like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du3o0ebh_Hc

And then I thought they were like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUqhKt2IOC4

One more sip and my bladder's gonna burst.


And now I am convinced. Resistance is futile.


For sale

Ruger M77 Tropical 458 win mag
- sadly, this has never been put to its intended use.
- vg condition
- less than 400rnds through it
- not for the feint of heart.

Ruger M77 375CT
- Shilen ss barrel
- less than 500 rounds through it
- hits hard with surprisingly little recoil

Ruger M77 338 win mag
- well loved, but shows some wear
-round count is less than 800
- hits hard on both ends; guaranteed to put a smile on your face.

Ruger M77 300 win mag
-Shilen ss barrel, black cerakote
- Brown Precision stock, olive drab
- round count is less than 1200
- my baby

Rem 700 BDL 7mag
-shows some wear, but rifle has been well cared for. Matte blued finish.
- B&C Medalist stock - tan with black web. Original wood stock is also available
-Round count is less than 800
- Very accurate; an absolute drill.

Reasonable offers considered on all rifles. Pics upon request.

Tomorrow I'll start shopping for my new 6.5 Gr.

[marky_mark]

FYI bear season is closed
Hope you fixed the flinch

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

FYI bear season is closed
Hope you fixed the flinch

Again, open your mouth and prove how little you know.

Even with your ignorant comment aside, you should brush up on the regulations before you pipe up.

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

There is no doubt that the extra horsepower will extend the kill range, and if you have confidence in your cartridge that will also help things out. The furthest elk I killed was about 550yds and was with a 165gr bullet in my 308 before I knew about ballistic coefficients, sectional densities or kinetic energy. I just knew about where to hold for 500yds and let er' go. I'd be willing to bet that the 143gr ELDX from the Creedmoor would be running similar energy at that range and would most likely have the same end result, but if it were to happen today I think I'd be sneaking in a bit closer.

I just got an interesting phone call from my Dad 10 minutes ago, he said the biggest bear he's ever seen in his 74yrs is in our field right now, says the head is a foot and a half wide. I might take a road trip tomorrow evening and see what the Creedmoor can do. Right now all my Dad has is a 22 and he was asking me where he should shoot it!!!

I hope you told him to throw the 22 in the bush and get a creedmore. It's the best.

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

FYI bear season is closed
Hope you fixed the flinch

Gonna figure he's a farmer. We're allowed to shoot bears.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

I hope you told him to throw the 22 in the bush and get a creedmore. It's the best.

If I was there right now there wouldn't be enough crow in Alberta to feed this crowd! Bahahaha!