Grouse dog

[DanJ]

Any dog experts here?

I have no experience training dogs for hunting but I enjoy taking my 4 year old whatever-the-heck-he-is, Kirby, grouse hunting with me because I love his company. He has no hunting bloodline that I know of (his mother was a rescue dog that we think is some bizarre mix of white German shephard, border collie and maybe husky). My hope is that he'll run around and flush birds for me. I have no anticipation that he'll ever retrieve, although I believe he has an instinct to point at things he's interested in. He's active and he's obedient about coming when I call him back if I think he's gone too far. To his credit, he has found birds for me and I've given him lots of praise for doing so. He's not gun-shy (brain-shy, maybe).

Today I bought a bottle of something called Grouse Scent at WSS. Assuming it actually smells like a grouse my idea is to douse this stuff on the tennis balls that Kirby loves to chase and chew, throw the balls around for him for the rest of the summer, and hopefully he'll learn to associate the smell with Fun. When the shooting season starts and I turn him loose I'm hoping he'll follow any grouse scents he picks up, expecting to find a ball at the other end and cause a flush.

I guess the obvious joke would be to expect him to chew up my dead birds as though they were tennis balls (this dog can chew up hockey pucks) but I'm not concerned about that.

What do the dog handlers think of this training technique?

Thanks!

[DanJ]

Dang, I meant to post in Hunting - Moderators, can you correct? Sorry.

I guess anything is worth a try.I don't know anybody that has had any luck with the scent bottles but who knows.The young birds are flying now so you can test it out before hunting season gets here.All I would say is keep the dog close if he happens to flush a bird or two .you want it to be in shooting range

[Whiskey Wish]

Dan,
I'm thinking if you are working with a dog that is well trained and happy to listen to you - bidable - you can probably get him to do almost anything.
If he will chase a ball and bring it back to you then you are halfway there. It can be very difficult to stop a dog from "chewing" up birds. The old timers used to take a tennis ball and push finishing nails into them. The dog does not get poked unless he bites down on the ball. I would work on teaching him to search on command. Take a scented ball and start by putting it where he can see it then use whatever command you intend to use for search. Depending on the dog and how quickly he catches on you then move in steps hiding the ball progressively tougher and tougher. It is important that in the early stages he KNOWS the scented ball is there and that he SUCCEEDS in finding it. Help him yourself if necessary. Once he knows the game thoroughly you can pre-hide a scented ball in the grass then walk him past and tell him to search. Obviously lots of praise for success is critical. Don't expect things to go smooth the first few times out hunting for real as there are too many scents and distractions but stay with him and if he has any brains at all he will catch on. Once he connects "I find it, you shoot it, we eat it!" he will work for you.
I taught a German Sheperd x Lab to hunt grouse once and we had a great time for years. Some comments:
1. Find a way for the dog to burn off some excess energy before you actually start hunting and there will be fewer wrecks and unhappiness
2. Some dogs do not like the taste of grouse and will not pick them up or carry them. I have heard the same is true of ducks but have no experience with that. My GS X Lab would pick them up and carry them only if he thought I could not reach it on my own. ie across a creek or down in a ravine. He would carry it until he figured I could get it on my own then drop it. If it was still alive he would pin it down until I got there. Rabbits he would carry all day.
Chances are the two of you will never be approved by snob dog owners or win a field trial but you could be in for a LOT of fun and a wonderful dog.
Enjoy.

Keep Your Powder Dry,
Dave.

[PoppaW]

Nothing beats hunting grouse with a dog. Any dog. If it obeys and spooks a few up it will learn as you do. I can't wait for fall. Woohoo

[eltorro]

Certain breeds have it in their blood to do things that other breeds need a lot of training to learn to do. This is why I will always recommend getting a dog bred for hunting (birds) especially for beginners.
They are more forgiving and their instinct will help you a lot.
A good trainer can get most dogs to be useful in hunting. Some dogs cannot be trained, but it sounds like yours it's not one of them. One great method of learning is to observe the dog. What Whiskey Wish said is bang on. Start with simple play and go harder. I repeat what he said: he must succeed, do not end a session without him finding the ball. Do not let the dog tell you he does not want to play anymore. You should stop it while he still wants to play.

Scents do not work. You will have to get the real thing. Wings work wonderful. Keep a couple of frozen birds for after the season training too.

One thing you will be looking forward to: you don't want to miss when you shoot. The look the dog will give you....

Most important: have fun.

[DanJ]

Originally Posted by PoppaW

I can't wait for fall.

x2. I'm dying to get out this year.

Some awesome advise here. I love the ideas about having him search for the ball - I would not have thought of that myself.

I think I have a couple of old grouse wings in my fly tying stuff - might as well pull them out and try them.

Thanks, boys, I will give it all a try.

[Whiskey Wish]

Originally Posted by eltorro

Certain breeds have it in their blood to do things that other breeds need a lot of training to learn to do. This is why I will always recommend getting a dog bred for hunting (birds) especially for beginners.
They are more forgiving and their instinct will help you a lot.
A good trainer can get most dogs to be useful in hunting. Some dogs cannot be trained, but it sounds like yours it's not one of them. One great method of learning is to observe the dog. What Whiskey Wish said is bang on. Start with simple play and go harder. I repeat what he said: he must succeed, do not end a session without him finding the ball. Do not let the dog tell you he does not want to play anymore. You should stop it while he still wants to play.

Scents do not work. You will have to get the real thing. Wings work wonderful. Keep a couple of frozen birds for after the season training too.

One thing you will be looking forward to: you don't want to miss when you shoot. The look the dog will give you....

Most important: have fun.

LOL...Thanks for the memory blast. I had forgotten all about "The Look" ! It is so true too.
Regards,
Dave.

[Dr. Fish]

Originally Posted by DanJ

Any dog experts here?
Today I bought a bottle of something called Grouse Scent at WSS.
Thanks!

I hunt upland with a Brittany and she goes absolutly nuts for grouse, when she gets a scent its game on. This summer I picked up a bottle of grouse scent from WSS and used it on a training dummy for some off season training. Well I'm pretty much convinced that it smells nothing like a grouse because she pays no interest to it whatsoever. Then I pull a ruffed grouse wing out of the freezer and let her smell it and she goes crazy for it.

[beermilk]

i am going to have to agree with thoes scent bottles none of them work far as i am concerned i have a beagle who is trained on rabbits i tried those scent bottles when i was going to train her and nothing. no intrest at all. now take her out in the field let her find a real rabbit and she goes nuts. have tried the scent bottles after she was broke and still nothing. waste of money

[boss.rooster]

Buy a dog training book. Delamr Smith 'The Best Way to Train Your Gun Dog' is my favorite. Im not a fan of scents. When you get a bird keep is wings in the freezer and when your ready to train, tie them on to a dummy and throw THAT into the cover for the dog to retreive, not scented balls. plus, the feel of feathers in the dogs mouth, compared to a scented ball, will give the pup a more 'hands on experience' when retreiving the dummy. just because your dog doesnt fetch their is a procedure called 'force break retreiving'. DO NOT attempt this yourself and only pro dog trainers should do this. you could very easily wreck a dog attempting this yourself. whatever happens, the dog is most improtantly your best friend and if you are happy with him not fetching then thats all that matters!

[RoscoeT]

If you want to learn to hunt with a dog you really should get some help from someone who has done it. Find a field trial club in your area and see what they do.