Castle Area Changes Now In works

[Joe Black]

Some of you have been following the Bob Creek temporary ATV trails closure thread. I had a chance to speak with the right ministry person on Friday and will update the post soon. During our conversation, the Castle region came up, and he mentioned big changes are ahead.

It is time to start lobbying if you are a user of this area, as it will be changing. If the organisations listed have their way, they will stop access for all users, and push for a hunting ban for this and areas near by.

This is a new trend and I have a bad feeling it will not end well, as they are using the endangered species act passed by the Liberals to stop all activities near or around any waterways.

http://www.newstalk770.com/2016/09/06/145219/


PS, if you are a Cattle or Horse guy, i would not get to comfortable thinking this will not affect you.

[Joe Black]

PPS.

you may want to start with an email to this individual to see what contact AFGA has had on this issue, and ask for his contacts at the ministry to voice your concerns.

Zone 1 Gregory Bird
zone1afga@gmail.com New Dayton

[dshaw]

Thanks for the heads up. It looks bleak on our end to really get any change. We send emails and letters and never hear anything and then changes happen. Hopefully we are heard.

[GET"R"DUN]

Folks, below is a link to some of the government staffers directly involved in decision making for this area. Perhaps it is worth communicating your views and telling them how passionate you/we are as hunters and outdoors enthusiasts about making sure these places are well managed for all and not just the "special" interest groups. Send some emails and make some phone calls. Having us as passionate supporters is FAR better than having our group as boisterous outspoken opponents. I am guessing these folks are also passionate nature enthusiasts of one variety or another and somewhere we have some common interest we can build on to keep our land well managed (yup fluffy I know but need to be in the conversation in order to be part of the outcome). There are some great management models in other areas where all are given reasonable access (yes I mean quads on designated trail networks as well as foot and horse traffic) to the landscapes in many forms (hunting, fishing, camping, quadding, equestrian, naturalists etc.). Some of these models need to be instituted here and the regulations need to catch up with the demands of the people and residents of the province. This needs to include enforcement and management (yup this would even create a few jobs that might be better than the pot hole filling job creation our elected government have been spending our money on). Stand up and be heard. Make some calls send some emails to the folks on the link below.
http://www.alberta.ca/albertaFiles/i...ID=19762#19762

[Joe Black]

Excellent find on the contact information. Peter Swain is the right person to contact/give input to. I spoke with him last week. Being involved now by yourselves will ensure all users will have access to the resources in this area of the province for the future. I can say that after our conversation, I believe his intent is to find a balance providing access to various users, and at the same time, protecting the landscape and wildlife.

Please follow the direction as stated above in contacting the ministry. We need to be proactive with having input in the planning stages, and if you are a user of this area, offer your views on a balance in user access and protecting the areas as you see it. We have to remember that these areas are for all all users(as stated above) and your recommendations will have more legitimacy if you keep that in mind. Coming off as "gun toting rednecks" in emails or phone calls does not help our cause.

[bruceba]

If I read this Schedule 7 which is right out of the
PUBLIC LANDS ADMINISTRATION REGULATION you may need a permit to quad in the Castle Special Management
Schedule 7
Castle Special Management Area
Public Land Use Zone
57 In this Schedule, “Zone” means the Castle Special
Management Area Public Land Use Zone.
58 Every person who is within the Zone shall comply with
(a) the lawful orders and instructions of an officer, and
(b) the instructions, prohibitions and directions contained in
signs and notices posted in or about the Zone under this
Regulation.
59(1) Subject to this section, no person shall operate
(a) an on-highway vehicle, except on a highway, or
(b) an off-highway vehicle or snow vehicle
within the Zone except in accordance with an access permit.
(2) A person operating a motor vehicle within the Zone under an
access permit shall, while operating the motor vehicle, be in
possession of a copy of the access permit and shall produce it to the
director or an officer on request.
(3) The operation of a motor vehicle is permitted in areas or on
trails within the Zone that have been designated for that purpose by
signs or notices posted under this Regulation.
(4) A person operating a motor vehicle within the Zone shall
comply with signs and notices posted in the Zone.
(5) The operation of a conveyance other than an on-highway
vehicle, off-highway vehicle and snow vehicle is permitted within
the Zone.
(6) The operation of a motor vehicle on land within the Zone
which is not a highway is permitted
(a) to transport an employee of the Government in the course
of the employee’s employment,
(b) where the vehicle is being used to conduct, or to transport
any person or equipment to be employed or used in, work
within the Zone that has been approved by the director,
(c) to remove a sick, injured or deceased person from the
Zone, or
(d) at places within the limits of a registered trapping area
located within the Zone where the use of a vehicle is
approved in writing by an officer.
60 An officer may, by order, direct a person in the Zone to refrain
from doing anything that, in the opinion of the officer, is dangerous
to life or property or detrimental to the management or use of any
road, trail or route within the Zone.
61 The Castle Special Management Area Public Land Use Zone
comprises all those portions of the following land as shown
outlined on a plan on file in the Department as No. 5932 GEN:
All those portions of the following land as shown outlined on a
plan on file in the Department of Environment and Sustainable
Resource Development as No. 5932 GEN.

[LCCFisherman]

Its already done.. Buy a horse is my advice.

[rem338win]

This comes from the irresponsible use of ATVS and "wilderness" camping done by halfwitted and selfish twits.

There are always people out there with opposing agendas. If you don't police yourself the government with introduce solutions that are nearly always remarkably terrible supported by people with these agendas.

Also there is nearly always a small army or 40 something soccer mom's, cat ladies and others that will react to a few pictures of "atrocities" to further press these agendas.

Frankly, given what I have seen, I'd support an ATV ban in the area as well. It's the other land use issues I'd fight because, again, the ATV users failed to police themselves.

[bruceba]

Originally Posted by rem338win

This comes from the irresponsible use of ATVS and "wilderness" camping done by halfwitted and selfish twits.

These are the targeted scape goats that are being used to justify turning the Castle into a park. It could have been which ever user group was the flavor of the day. They should have had the crews on the ground for the last 5 years like they've had on the ground this year. Disguises an end run for the agenda of Y2Y and their 118 partners that are collaborating on as they say 67 conservation projects to protect habitat and connect wildlife throughout the Yellowstone to Yukon region.
https://y2y.net/news/updates-from-th...stle-watershed

[silver lab]

Originally Posted by rem338win

This comes from the irresponsible use of ATVS and "wilderness" camping done by halfwitted and selfish twits.

There are always people out there with opposing agendas. If you don't police yourself the government with introduce solutions that are nearly always remarkably terrible supported by people with these agendas.

Also there is nearly always a small army or 40 something soccer mom's, cat ladies and others that will react to a few pictures of "atrocities" to further press these agendas.

Frankly, given what I have seen, I'd support an ATV ban in the area as well. It's the other land use issues I'd fight because, again, the ATV users failed to police themselves.

You sound like a AFGA member. Thanks for nothing.
This area only needs one thing and thats policing. If random camping is a problem then build some camp grounds.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by rem338win

ATV users failed to police themselves.

if they wanted us to police ourselves then they wouldn't arrest vigilantes

[LCCFisherman]

ATV users hanged themselves... the Government gave you all the rope you needed. 400 and 402 have NEVER looked this bad...

[sjd]

Originally Posted by bruceba

If I read this Schedule 7 which is right out of the
PUBLIC LANDS ADMINISTRATION REGULATION you may need a permit to quad in the Castle Special Management
Schedule 7
Castle Special Management Area
Public Land Use Zone
57 In this Schedule, “Zone” means the Castle Special
Management Area Public Land Use Zone.
58 Every person who is within the Zone shall comply with
(a) the lawful orders and instructions of an officer, and
(b) the instructions, prohibitions and directions contained in
signs and notices posted in or about the Zone under this
Regulation.
59(1) Subject to this section, no person shall operate
(a) an on-highway vehicle, except on a highway, or
(b) an off-highway vehicle or snow vehicle
within the Zone except in accordance with an access permit.
(2) A person operating a motor vehicle within the Zone under an
access permit shall, while operating the motor vehicle, be in
possession of a copy of the access permit and shall produce it to the
director or an officer on request.
(3) The operation of a motor vehicle is permitted in areas or on
trails within the Zone that have been designated for that purpose by
signs or notices posted under this Regulation.
(4) A person operating a motor vehicle within the Zone shall
comply with signs and notices posted in the Zone.
(5) The operation of a conveyance other than an on-highway
vehicle, off-highway vehicle and snow vehicle is permitted within
the Zone.
(6) The operation of a motor vehicle on land within the Zone
which is not a highway is permitted
(a) to transport an employee of the Government in the course
of the employee’s employment,
(b) where the vehicle is being used to conduct, or to transport
any person or equipment to be employed or used in, work
within the Zone that has been approved by the director,
(c) to remove a sick, injured or deceased person from the
Zone, or
(d) at places within the limits of a registered trapping area
located within the Zone where the use of a vehicle is
approved in writing by an officer.
60 An officer may, by order, direct a person in the Zone to refrain
from doing anything that, in the opinion of the officer, is dangerous
to life or property or detrimental to the management or use of any
road, trail or route within the Zone.
61 The Castle Special Management Area Public Land Use Zone
comprises all those portions of the following land as shown
outlined on a plan on file in the Department as No. 5932 GEN:
All those portions of the following land as shown outlined on a
plan on file in the Department of Environment and Sustainable
Resource Development as No. 5932 GEN.

Ha ha, this is old. the Castle has been a PLUZ for years and its been illegal to go off designated trails for this whole time. There has been rampant abuse of this for the past decade.

The Government has made it clear that there is going to be a designated ATV trail network in the new parks.

I think a lot of users are just grumpy that they are actually going to start enforcing the rules.

[KBF]

Just heard on 95.5 FM radio out of Lethbridge that a report and aerial survey that was just done said that one of the proposed areas for the new park has been made " absolutely unfit for the grizzly bear to be able to exist. That's very close to the wording at least. Not looking good.

[Jeffro]

They must be referring to the ski hill. Any time I look at the aerial imagery over the ski hill I nearly vomit at the habitat alteration and destruction. Makes me giggle when I hear about the abuse caused by other recreational users of the area. It's rather hypocritical for one bunch to point fingers at another for the same or worse.

[KBF]

Originally Posted by Jeffro

They must be referring to the ski hill. Any time I look at the aerial imagery over the ski hill I nearly vomit at the habitat alteration and destruction. Makes me giggle when I hear about the abuse caused by other recreational users of the area. It's rather hypocritical for one bunch to point fingers at another for the same or worse.

Haha that's too funny you could be right. But on the other hand I'm sure lots of them ski all winter and there's lots of snow so that means it's ok. If they close the other areas I want ski hill closed too.

[Pathfinder76]

We need to find a couple of Lawyers that are personally passionate about this and take legal action. This is starting to happen elsewhere in close proximity.

[Myles]

My hope is the destruction caused by ATVs and random camping is stopped and the area gets a chance to restore itself to what it once was.

This pic was taken from Lynx Creek and shows the mentality of people who abused the area. I think a balance can be found with responsible ATV and camping use.



Supposed to look like:



Picture says a thousand words.

[KBF]

Problem is though they aren't interested in stopping atv use. They are interested in full on closure of the whole area. Don't let them kid you

[ctd]

Don't be surprised if we see the whole eastern slope changed into a limited access. It has been in talks for some time now.

[JimPS]

Originally Posted by KBF

Just heard on 95.5 FM radio out of Lethbridge that a report and aerial survey that was just done said that one of the proposed areas for the new park has been made " absolutely unfit for the grizzly bear to be able to exist. That's very close to the wording at least. Not looking good.

Article published in the Herald:

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...rs-study-finds

[dshaw]

If the government wants it they will eventually get it. Its how the system works, they will find somebody with a biology in something to back what they want to do. They find some rare species to use to close it down. I loved how on the radio they said there was hardly any natural land left for the grizzly bears. From what i've seen they are doing fine. All that needs to happen is just the enforcement of some laws and regulate use up there. Stay on designated trails, clean up your camp. Start charging guys a good fine and people will start to learn. In my opinion the ultimate goal is to make their yukon to yellowstone project happen. This is the first step, 402 area will be next.

[hawk-i]

Time to sell the quad and buy a horse!

[lead chucker]

Well for a un inhabiteable environment for them to exist there sure doing well.these f €@&in environmentalists gotta quit fudging numbers

[JimPS]

Originally Posted by dshaw

If the government wants it they will eventually get it. Its how the system works, they will find somebody with a biology in something to back what they want to do. They find some rare species to use to close it down. I loved how on the radio they said there was hardly any natural land left for the grizzly bears. From what i've seen they are doing fine. All that needs to happen is just the enforcement of some laws and regulate use up there. Stay on designated trails, clean up your camp. Start charging guys a good fine and people will start to learn. In my opinion the ultimate goal is to make their yukon to yellowstone project happen. This is the first step, 402 area will be next.

Grizzly bears aren't the only species or value affected by the random and uncontrolled web of eroding trails, indiscriminate stream crossings and rampant abuse in the Castle, and, for that matter, many other areas of the province.

The Herald article seems very incomplete and lacking whatsoever in any detail - I'm sure this article is just the tip of the iceberg of what the "state of affairs" really is.

The "science" will eventually be released and whats coming will not make some people very happy.

I'm beginning to think the majority of Albertans will be very pleased to see the government finally doing something - even if it's just smearing more lipstick on the old pig.

[Joe Black]

As with the Bob Creek issues, Peter Swain is the primary contact for this area and the management plan. I personally believe he will stand up for all users, but it will be a more of a Bob creek setup. Designated trails only and more enforcement. Peter is also looking/asking for user input on how to strike a balance. i would suggest those who are familiar with the area contact him and ask to be involved in the process.


http://www.alberta.ca/albertaFiles/i...ID=19762#19762

Below is also public information and provides some background on the senior staffer.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-swain-88253b10

[turbo mulcher]

Originally Posted by dshaw

If the government wants it they will eventually get it. Its how the system works, they will find somebody with a biology in something to back what they want to do. They find some rare species to use to close it down. I loved how on the radio they said there was hardly any natural land left for the grizzly bears. From what i've seen they are doing fine. All that needs to happen is just the enforcement of some laws and regulate use up there. Stay on designated trails, clean up your camp. Start charging guys a good fine and people will start to learn. In my opinion the ultimate goal is to make their yukon to yellowstone project happen. This is the first step, 402 area will be next.

Yes 402 is on the list and I talked to a FW officer and he said there needs to be a Griz hunt in the south Too many bears !

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by silver lab

You sound like a AFGA member. Thanks for nothing.
This area only needs one thing and thats policing. If random camping is a problem then build some camp grounds.

interesting comment. I've contacted AFGA twice, with zero response to these issues, positive or negative. I actually expected the opposite, AFGA all over it, Alberta Parks silent. turns out AFGA dont give a darn(or it agrees with the changes and do not have the nads to admit it), Parks wants to work with users. Kinda makes me wonder if the AFGA mandate "Ensuring more habitat, fish and wildlife resources for the use of ALL Albertans" shouldn't be changed to "CERTAIN Albertans". Here's the guys contact. maybe you guys will have better luck.

Zone 1 Gregory Bird
zone1afga@gmail.com New Dayton


makes me wonder if i should continue supporting them through my membership, as i have for the last 20 years,,,,,,,

[M shooter]

here is an article from global.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2957785/2-...y-bears-study/

[ctd]

I always find it interesting when people state, experts state that roads, clear cuts, vehicle use causes animals to suddenly die and or stress out in areas. Yet the opposite seems to happen, unless.

You destroy their entire habitat such as build a city or large plant right smack in the middle of prime habitat.

Even then I still see wildlife on roads, cut paths, atv trails or even around people.

If the case was actually strong enough to support the argument that animals avoid man made trails and such they would avoid any human or un natural areas, which is not the case with the Moose, Deer and other animals in Red Deer, Calgary, Edmonton, GP Fort Mcurray, walking around.

Blaming a tore up quad trail on wrecking a whole stream or river is silly and has no actual proof. The same as it causing a heavy decline on the fish numbers.

These same rivers and creeks flood every year and deposit tons and tons of silt, they even carve out new swaths of land at times. In this instance we humans try to stop this Natures progress and re route or shore up areas that may effect our lives. We do so with little to no regard to what we are actually effecting in the ecosystem.
The same can be said about us putting out forest fires instead of allowing them to burn, burning rejuvinates a whole area, providing new nutrients not only for the forest floor but also the creeks and streams in the area.

If we are going to shut down huge swaths of land due to ATV destruction then we need to look at allowing those areas to return to their natural state including limiting any and all access, This includes scientists, biologists and other officials tagging and collaring animals for research.

Instead we like to blame a lack of fish on ATVs when in fact it was due to over fishing from years of our Grand Parents and Great Grand Parents over fishing, then a poorly ran fisheries and restocking program. Then introducing foreign fish to streams, rivers and lakes to boost sports fishing quality. No regard to what the actual change would occur. We are still doing this to this day.

No one wants to stand up for what is right, no one wants to say what is actually wrong, because no one truly cares. Every interest group only wants their opinions and needs heard and looked after. Thye do not care about any other groups. Its sad to hear and witness now a days.
Theses issues happened and were put in place long before I was of voting age. They just got to blame new reasons for the problems.

If we truly cared about the actual issues we would all stand together and support each recreational group that uses the Eastern slopes