Please ask permission

[waterninja]

I have to disagree lefty. Your definition may have come from some dictionary from jolly old, but trespassing is one thing and poaching is another.
If you break the speed limit to get to your hunting spot are you also then poaching?
From the sounds of things lately, glassing an animal on a field that you don't have permission on is both trespassing and poaching.

Edit... lefty is a serious person, so I must ask him to show me where in the regs, or in the criminal code that hunting without permission is both trespassing and poaching.

[HunterDave]

I wouldn't report him without letting the landowner know first. For something like that I think that it would be better to let the landowner know about it before calling the authorities. I think that it is the landowners decision to make.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Trespassing when hunting is poaching.

Exactly! No matter how someone tries to twist things, trespassing while hunting is poaching.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Exactly! No matter how someone tries to twist things, trespassing while hunting is poaching.

Could you please show me where in the regs, or in the criminal code of canada that hunting without permission is also poaching.
I for one don't buy it. 2 different crimes that are not necessarily connected.

On the other hand I admit that lawmakers could have made such a law. Pretty soon if you honk your horn on the hwy. you can be charged with poaching.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Could you please show me where in the regs, or in the criminal code of canada that hunting without permission is also poaching.
I for one don't buy it. 2 different crimes that are not necessarily connected.

On the other hand I admit that lawmakers could have made such a law. Pretty soon if you honk your horn on the hwy. you can be charged with poaching.

How about you show us where the word "poaching" appears in the Wildlife Act, or the Criminal Code?

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

How about you show us where the word "poaching" appears in the Wildlife Act, or the Criminal Code?

Your being goofy again Elk. Your the one who posted that hunting while trespassing is poaching. (post 33). Your words.

I don't agree with trespassing or poaching, but unlike you I don't think they are the same thing. Once again you have missed the point.
If you insist on participating, please try to focus.

[bigskinner]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

If he is hunting...on private property without permission, that's poaching AND trespassing.

poaching
[poh-ching]
noun
1.
the illegal practice of trespassing on another's property to hunt or steal game without the landowner's permission.
2.
any encroachment on another's property, rights, ideas, or the like.

LC

WRONG , hes only poaching if he has no licence to hunt , hes trespassing , that's all, sorry

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I wouldn't report him without letting the landowner know first. For something like that I think that it would be better to let the landowner know about it before calling the authorities. I think that it is the landowners decision to make.

Wise words HunterDave, OP should follow this direction...and to see a squabble develope on the thread...go figure eh!

[Pikebreath]

So is trespassing is any less an offence than poaching?


It should be landowner's decision decide what course of action to take.

Every year we have opportunity to charge 3 - 6 "hunters" with trespassing,,, but have not have not done so, simply preferring to give them an "educational moment" about what trespassing really is and giving them a warning that if we see them again, they will be charged with trespassing,,, never had a repeat offender yet.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Pikebreath

So is trespassing is any less an offence than poaching?


It should be landowner's decision decide what course of action to take.

Every year we have opportunity to charge 3 - 6 "hunters" with trespassing,,, but have not have not done so, simply preferring to give them an "educational moment" about what trespassing really is and giving them a warning that if we see them again, they will be charged with trespassing,,, never had a repeat offender yet.

Your lucky, the OP said this fella knows but continues to tresspass.
Some people just don't get it until caught, charged etc but then again it will be everyone else's fault etc
Tell the landowner and let him deal with this criminal.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Honestly I don't even know if you will find the word "poaching" in the wildlife act, I don't know if there is a specific charge with the word "poaching" in it.

From the wildlife act,

(2) No person shall hunt any wildlife or discharge any firearm on or over occupied land or enter on occupied land for the purpose of doing so, without the consent of the owner or occupant of it.

BUT That being said....

Semantics guys...on private property you don't belong for a walk, no weapon and not hunting...trespassing.

Hunting on private land without permission, with a weapon whether you are licensed or not...poaching.

The wildlife act was changed a few years ago to beef up the charge because the petty trespass act didn't have enough teeth.

Another source,

Poaching is the illegal taking of wildlife, in violation of local, state, federal or international law. Activities that are considered poaching include killing an animal out of season, without a license, with a prohibited weapon, or in a prohibited manner such as jacklighting. Killing a protected species, exceeding one's bag limit or killing an animal while trespassing are also considered to be poaching.

RAP- report a poacher, not RAT- report a trespasser

LC

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by waterninja

I have to disagree lefty. Your definition may have come from some dictionary from jolly old, but trespassing is one thing and poaching is another.
If you break the speed limit to get to your hunting spot are you also then poaching?
From the sounds of things lately, glassing an animal on a field that you don't have permission on is both trespassing and poaching.

Edit... lefty is a serious person, so I must ask him to show me where in the regs, or in the criminal code that hunting without permission is both trespassing and poaching.

I'll let you look it up and prove me wrong

LC

[Lefty-Canuck]

No trespassing charges..."hunting on occupied land"

ALBERTA

Not reading the regulations costs hunter lengthy suspension
On the evening of October 28, 2013, an eyewitness called the Report a Poacher hotline to report a violation in progress involving a hunt in closed season activity west of Cold Lake, Alberta. The witness was able to obtain a vehicle licence plate and forwarded on all information to the officer. With the very detailed description of the truck and the licence plate information, the fish and wildlife officer
was able to track down and talk to the accused.

A statement from the accused was taken and the accused accepted responsibility for what took place. The accused had entered onto privately owned land without permission to obtain the deer. The accused stated the deer was shot from the roadway into a field where a residence was located, half a mile to the north. The accused admitted to the officer that he did not have an understanding of the hunting regulations nor did the accused know about the residence in the background prior to the shot being taken. Once the statement was concluded, the accused and officer went back to the residence to seize all white-tailed deer meat and antlers from
the incident.

Further investigation into the hunter revealed that the accused did not meet the first time hunter requirements in order to hold a valid hunting licence in the province of Alberta. The officer conducted a follow-up with the landowner in regards to the investigation. With the landowner's statement, the officer was able to proceed with thecharge of hunting on occupied land.

On February 12, 2014, a Bonnyville district area man appeared in Cold Lake Provincial Court to enter a guilty plea for all charges related to the hunting violations.
Hunting during a closed season - $1,000 fine and a 12-month recreational hunting licence suspension
Hunting on occupied land - $172 fine and an additional 12-month recreational hunting licence suspension
Ineligible person obtain andhold licence - withdrawn

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Your being goofy again Elk. Your the one who posted that hunting while trespassing is poaching. (post 33). Your words.

I don't agree with trespassing or poaching, but unlike you I don't think they are the same thing. Once again you have missed the point.
If you insist on participating, please try to focus.

The point is that there is no charge for "poaching" in the Wildlife Act, or in the Criminal Code, so no matter what regulations you violate, you won't be charged with 'poaching". However there is a definition for poaching in the English language, and Lefty has posted that definition. However, some people will argue that trespassing while hunting is not poaching, because poaching sounds much more serious to them than trespassing,. In fact, some of those people arguing this, see trespassing as being very minor, to the point that they trespass, but they don't want to be referred to as a poacher.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by bigskinner

WRONG , hes only poaching if he has no licence to hunt , hes trespassing , that's all, sorry

NOPE....read the case above, "hunting on occupied land" can carry a suspension and a fine. Petty Trespass is a fine only.

LC

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

NOPE....read the case above, "hunting on occupied land" can carry a suspension and a fine. Petty Trespass is a fine only.

LC

And according to a F&W officer that I spoke with, if a person harvests an animal while trespassing, the animal can be confiscated, even on private land that isn't considered occupied. Apparently this is a recent change, that isn't all that well known to most people.

[diamonddave]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Could you please show me where in the regs, or in the criminal code of canada that hunting without permission is also poaching.
I for one don't buy it. 2 different crimes that are not necessarily connected.

On the other hand I admit that lawmakers could have made such a law. Pretty soon if you honk your horn on the hwy. you can be charged with poaching.

Is this where you get all your info about the hunting regs Ninja? They do have them in print you should grab a copy some day. Its full of interesting info like legal point definition, and other funky stuff about shooting from the roads.

p.s...... they even have fishing regulations in print here in Alberta

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The point is that there is no charge for "poaching" in the Wildlife Act, or in the Criminal Code, so no matter what regulations you violate, you won't be charged with 'poaching". However there is a definition for poaching in the English language, and Lefty has posted that definition. However, some people will argue that trespassing while hunting is not poaching, because poaching sounds much more serious to them than trespassing,. In fact, some of those people arguing this, see trespassing as being very minor, to the point that they trespass, but they don't want to be referred to as a poacher.

Actually, Elk, I have read in the regs, or perhaps in the wildlife act a definition of poaching, and some examples of what is poaching were given. I'll track that down when I have time.
As for lefty's definition, that is one definition that was obviously cherry picked to bolster his argument. Google poaching and you will find lots of definitions where trespassing is never mentioned.
As for lefty's story about the fellow who went to court, there was a lot going on there besides trespassing. Even he was never charged with trespassing, but with hunting on occupied land. This is a different charge then something under the petty trespass act. This fellow killed an animal in a closed season and from the sounds of it didn't have a proper hunting license. These are serious infractions, and I would say he was a poacher. If he was not on occupied land he would still have been charged and I would still consider him a poacher.

My point in all of this argument, is the fact that a lot of people are quick to label someone a "poacher" for any minor infraction or mistake they might make. I don't agree with that.
I also don't agree with trespassing, but not all trespassers are poachers. As a matter of fact, I'm sure people trespass for a lot of other reasons besides hunting. I suppose you would call them poachers also. I guess when I parked in farmer Browns field when I was a teen to watch the stars with my girlfriend, I was poaching.

[Lefty-Canuck]

LOL Ninja....cherry picked? Lol.

The guy was charged specifically for hunting occupied lands, read the definition. You don't even realize your reply supports what elk11 and I have been stating all along.

Willfully blind...

LC

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

Is this where you get all your info about the hunting regs Ninja? They do have them in print you should grab a copy some day. Its full of interesting info like legal point definition, and other funky stuff about shooting from the roads.

p.s...... they even have fishing regulations in print here in Alberta

SIGH... Are you still beating that dead horse Dave? I thought we explained to you in simple words that yes you are allowed to park your vehicle and stalk an animal that you saw from said vehicle, as long as all other regs. and laws are followed. Just because you spotted it from your vehicle does not mean it isn't fair game.
Heck, depending on your location and the type of road your on you can often shoot right from the road or from the ditch. You really need to study a little more. Have you never picked up a reg book when getting a license? They are free to everyone.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

LOL Ninja....cherry picked? Lol.

The guy was charged specifically for hunting occupied lands, read the definition. You don't even realize your reply supports what elk11 and I have been stating all along.

Willfully blind...

LC

Yes, cherry picked. LOL Not everyone who trespasses is hunting on occupied land, or is a poacher

Data deficient

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Yes, cherry picked. LOL Not everyone who trespasses is hunting on occupied land, or is a poacher

Data deficient

Read what I said, actually read and comprehend...it does not resemble what you just stated above. I never implied nor stated what you posted above.

"BUT That being said....

Semantics guys...on private property you don't belong for a walk, no weapon and not hunting...trespassing.

Hunting on private land without permission, with a weapon whether you are licensed or not...poaching."

Agree or disagree with the above?

LC

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Actually, Elk, I have read in the regs, or perhaps in the wildlife act a definition of poaching, and some examples of what is poaching were given. I'll track that down when I have time.
As for lefty's definition, that is one definition that was obviously cherry picked to bolster his argument. Google poaching and you will find lots of definitions where trespassing is never mentioned.
As for lefty's story about the fellow who went to court, there was a lot going on there besides trespassing. Even he was never charged with trespassing, but with hunting on occupied land. This is a different charge then something under the petty trespass act. This fellow killed an animal in a closed season and from the sounds of it didn't have a proper hunting license. These are serious infractions, and I would say he was a poacher. If he was not on occupied land he would still have been charged and I would still consider him a poacher.

My point in all of this argument, is the fact that a lot of people are quick to label someone a "poacher" for any minor infraction or mistake they might make. I don't agree with that.
I also don't agree with trespassing, but not all trespassers are poachers. As a matter of fact, I'm sure people trespass for a lot of other reasons besides hunting. I suppose you would call them poachers also. I guess when I parked in farmer Browns field when I was a teen to watch the stars with my girlfriend, I was poaching.

I will keep my eyes open for unicorns and Sasquatches, and I will likely have as much luck finding one as you will trying to find a definition of poaching in the Wildlife Act.

The guy was charged specifically for hunting occupied lands, read the definition. You don't even realize your reply supports what elk11 and I have been stating all along.

Willfully blind...

LC

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Wise words HunterDave, OP should follow this direction...and to see a squabble develope on the thread...go figure eh!

Quite honestly it seems that any discussion about hunting/fishing/ (sometimes trapping) turns into a squabble. I prefer to call them "lively discussions", or even "heated debates".
I quite enjoy them from time to time. You can even learn new stuff. I think the main reason for all the arguments is that some people add their own interpretations to a reg, or simply interpret a reg the way they would like it to be.
It doesn't help that some of the regs are written so poorly that they are open to all kinds of interpretations, and some regs simply make no sense at all.
As long as it doesn't sink to the level of personal attacks or name calling, I think it's a good thing.
So carry on boys and girls. Please explain to me why that because I take my seatbelt off while driving on the ice when ice fishing (which is illegal) that that must also make me a poacher.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I'll let you look it up and prove me wrong

LC

Your asking me to look something up that doesn't exist? Priceless
God bless you Lefty

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

How about you show us where the word "poaching" appears in the Wildlife Act, or the Criminal Code?

Lefty has already posted one example, and I will try to find more. I know I have read a paragraph about poaching, and how it is defined in AB, but it could also have been in an ACA or AFGA pamphlet. That wouldn't make it a law, but frankly i respect what they have to say (mostly), more then what politicians who write the regs have o say.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Your asking me to look something up that doesn't exist? Priceless
God bless you Lefty

Do you even know what you are looking up Ninja? Hint you brought up the criminal code...it's not found there.

Petty trespass, being on lands you do not have permission to be on regardless of the activity

Hunting on occupied lands, hunting on lands you do not have permission to be on.

Answer my question...above what I did or didn't state?

LC

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Do you even know what you are looking up Ninja?

Petty trespass, being on lands you do not have permission to be on regardless of the activity

Hunting on occupied lands, hunting on lands you do not have permission to be on.

Answer my question above...above what I did or didn't state.

LC

Yep, you want to know who's on first base. This is getting silly.

[Lefty-Canuck]

It's ok little buddy, if you don't understand the discussion we won't hold it against you

LC

[JDK71]

Trespasser poacher all the same scumbags report every one you see no matter how big or small the crime is