thrown charges versus weighed charges for long range

[Battle Rat]

A volume measurement should result in a more consistent fuel/oxygen ratio as opposed to one of mass.
SD should confirm that.
Iron sights may be the biggest variable in the results.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Battle Rat

A volume measurement should result in a more consistent fuel/oxygen ratio as opposed to one of mass.
SD should confirm that.
Iron sights may be the biggest variable in the results.

And the sling as well.
Make no mistake, no one is disputing whether or not the weighed charges are more accurately consistent, the whole test was to find out if they can be a determining factor in a group size or a series of groups when an accurate prone rifle is used by me, which the result was definite no!
Cat

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

And the sling as well.
Make no mistake, no one is disputing whether or not the weighed charges are more accurately consistent, the whole test was to find out if they can be a determining factor in a group size or a series of groups when an accurate prone rifle is used by me, which the result was definite no!
Cat

I did read an article years ago that suggested thrown charges resulted in less velocity spread than weighed charges.

[fps plus]

When I had the opportunity to do pressure testing with proper equipment and test barrels we had a procedure for rotating and tumbling the loaded individual ammo exactly the same each time before it was loaded and fired in the test barrel. This was to try and make sure the powder was situated the same from cartridge to cartridge before firing. Obviously it must make a slight difference as it was the standard set by the company making the pressure testing equipment

[Bushrat]

There's one variable whether in weighed or thrown powder charges that can have more of an effect than minute variations in powder charge and that is primers. Not every primer has the exact same amont of compound in it and it affects the brisance of the ignition spark and affects combustion of the powder column.. It's a variable we can't control as primer compound is spread into primer cups pretty much manually and primers on one end of the board being loaded with compound may not receive the same amount as primers on the other end or other side never mind 100,000 or a few million primers down the line spread by different hands. Match primers are supposed to be more consistent and spread by the most experienced technicians and checked more throughly but are also not imune from inconsistency. Also not sure that this isn't a marketing thing justifying extra cost for match primers. Anyway just my anecdote as I have really never seen an identifiable meaningful apparent difference between match and standard primers. Have also had the rare failure of both types over the decades which indicates that the next primer out of the tray may not be the same as the last.

As long as we have an ignition source that "can" be inconsistent from one to another in the same packet or lot we're kinda peeing into the wind when trying to prove if a minute descrepancy among powder charges is making the difference and not wind or other environmental or optical effects especially at long range even though theese conditions may appear identical they never really are after the bullet leaves the crown and travels to the target. It is a great topic for conversation and speculation.

[catnthehat]

The above posts reflect some of the reasons that the testing was done at 800 meters,instead of 100 or even 500 meters, because we all agree that is easier to see an increase in group size at 800 meters with a well tuned rig than it is at 100 or 500 meters.
However, another reason is that I have of late shot 300 rounds in ten shot strings at 800 meters, and the gun was well zeroed at that range, all on the upper 40's, most above 96% .one target that scored 46/50 with 5V's , was shot in a wind that was gusting to approximately 3.5 MOA from 03:00 to5:30, with a waterline that was less than .1 MOA.

This tells me that the shooter / rifle combination can shoot an acceptable group at 800.
I have not shot at 1,000 meters with that rifle for some time however ,so that is why I didn't go back that far
Cat

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Battle Rat

I did read an article years ago that suggested thrown charges resulted in less velocity spread than weighed charges.

Do you remember if there was a conclusive test done to substantiate the suggestion?
Cat

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Do you remember if there was a conclusive test done to substantiate the suggestion?
Cat

Unfortunately no, it was quite awhile back.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Battle Rat

Unfortunately no, it was quite awhile back.

Dang, too bad, it would have been nice to know or get a chance to read that!
I know most black powder instructions say to measure a charge, but that I think that commes from the confusion of grains and granules and drams.
I know Paul Mathews weighed his black powder cartridge charges as well as other however.
I throw mine to get a consultant volumetric height in the case.
Cat

[Battle Rat]

I think the black powder volume thing is also because of the difference in Pyrodex weight.
Ill keep googling and see what more pops up.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Battle Rat

I think the black powder volume thing is also because of the difference in Pyrodex weight.
Ill keep googling and see what more pops up.

No, it was common at the turn of the last century and probably before that- I can't tell you because I wasn't around back then, but I don't think the Golden Age Frontiersman weighed their charges LOL.
In fact, " Kentucky measure" was grains = calibre.
"Plains or Frontier measure " waz found bt pouring the powder over a ball in your hand until it covered it.
In my .50 Hawken that worked out to 120 grains , which is normally considered a maximum load for a .50 plains rifle .
Cat

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

No, it was common at the turn of the last century and probably before that- I can't tell you because I wasn't around back then, but I don't think the Golden Age Frontiersman weighed their charges LOL.
Cat

It wouldn't have been practical to carry around a scale, a measure is a lot simpler and quicker to use.