Fisheries engagement

[leeelmer]

Dumb question here,
Is netting allowed on Cold Lake?
By that I mean by anyone(metis,indian, everyone else)
Because if it is, then any plan is not even worth the paper it is printed on.
If you allow netting, then sustainable harvest is not even a question.
Now if netting is not allowed, then putting lets say tags out for over a certain size, lets say over 75cm, and a 1 fish limit for under then that would go a long way in making a good step forward.
Over 75 are the big breeders, under not nearly as much.
You would know exactly how many big breeders are being kept each year, and if the population in lets say 3 years is getting low, then remove the under size 1 possession. and only keep the tags for over sized.

Seams simple.

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by leeelmer

Dumb question here,
Is netting allowed on Cold Lake?
By that I mean by anyone(metis,indian, everyone else)
Because if it is, then any plan is not even worth the paper it is printed on.
If you allow netting, then sustainable harvest is not even a question.
Now if netting is not allowed, then putting lets say tags out for over a certain size, lets say over 75cm, and a 1 fish limit for under then that would go a long way in making a good step forward.
Over 75 are the big breeders, under not nearly as much.
You would know exactly how many big breeders are being kept each year, and if the population in lets say 3 years is getting low, then remove the under size 1 possession. and only keep the tags for over sized.

Seams simple.

Netting is permitted by Saskatchewan residents on the Saskatchewan side, and by natives on any part of the lake.
There is no commercial netting on any lakes entirely in Alberta and has not been for several years. Netting by natives is still permitted.

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by mlee

I'm always C&R on cold but selective harvest probably makes sense for a while. That said they could limit harvest season to july-august when fish mortality is the likely the highest anyway due to pressure and water temps.
I filled out the survey....I'd be fine with a bait ban as well as barbless hooks on cold.

A bait ban for Lakers would be acceptable to me, but everyone has to remember when doing the survey that a bait ban would affect all species for the entire lake. Not just lake trout.

Another suggestion we made was to close trout fishing and netting during the spawn.
Currently, it is one of the only species in Alberta that you are allowed to target during spawning season. This impacts the fish negatively, even if harvest is not permitted.
That one sadly seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

[Smoky buck]

If regulations are going to involve joint consultation of both Alberta and Saskatchewan residents regarding Cold lake fishing regs odds are tags are not going to go over well in Saskatchewan

When I tell anglers I know in other provinces about Alberta’s tag system they can’t believe Alberta anglers support it. I don’t think I have talked to one that thinks “yeah that sounds great” lol

Slots, seasonal closures, short openings, gear restrictions/bait bans or even C&R are far more excepted. Tags are often only excepted for species like sturgeon and paddle fish outside of Alberta

But I really have no bone to pick with cold lake lakers so whatever happens what impact my fishing personally

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

If regulations are going to involve joint consultation of both Alberta and Saskatchewan residents regarding Cold lake fishing regs odds are tags are not going to go over well in Saskatchewan

When I tell anglers I know in other provinces about Alberta’s tag system they can’t believe Alberta anglers support it. I don’t think I have talked to one that thinks “yeah that sounds great” lol

Slots, seasonal closures, short openings, gear restrictions/bait bans or even C&R are far more excepted. Tags are often only excepted for species like sturgeon and paddle fish outside of Alberta

But I really have no bone to pick with cold lake lakers so whatever happens what impact my fishing personally

As per the provincial update last week, eTags start this year. Still need to be drawn for class A and B. But for C class if you are on the actual lake and catch a 43cm walleye and there are tags available and you decide to keep it, you can purchase and tag it on the spot. This is a change in the right direction and paper tags will go away.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by SNAPFisher

As per the provincial update last week, eTags start this year. Still need to be drawn for class A and B. But for C class if you are on the actual lake and catch a 43cm walleye and there are tags available and you decide to keep it, you can purchase and tag it on the spot. This is a change in the right direction and paper tags will go away.

Doesn’t change a thing in my opinion and likely won’t change anything I stated in that post

[mlee]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

A bait ban for Lakers would be acceptable to me, but everyone has to remember when doing the survey that a bait ban would affect all species for the entire lake. Not just lake trout.

Another suggestion we made was to close trout fishing and netting during the spawn.
Currently, it is one of the only species in Alberta that you are allowed to target during spawning season. This impacts the fish negatively, even if harvest is not permitted.
That one sadly seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

Yeah I get that.....and I guess in my case I travel to cold lake to specifically target char so I'll admit the thought of locals fishing other species wasn't on my mind.

[Frank_NK28]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

If regulations are going to involve joint consultation of both Alberta and Saskatchewan residents regarding Cold lake fishing regs odds are tags are not going to go over well in Saskatchewan

When I tell anglers I know in other provinces about Alberta’s tag system they can’t believe Alberta anglers support it. I don’t think I have talked to one that thinks “yeah that sounds great” lol

Slots, seasonal closures, short openings, gear restrictions/bait bans or even C&R are far more excepted. Tags are often only excepted for species like sturgeon and paddle fish outside of Alberta

But I really have no bone to pick with cold lake lakers so whatever happens what impact my fishing personally

And I'm one of those anglers that doesn't support it and I have lived in both provinces, currently in AB. As far as I am concerned AB fisheries managers can shove their fish tags where the sun doesn't shine. They are nothing more than a cash grab.

[Penner]

Originally Posted by Frank_NK28

And I'm one of those anglers that doesn't support it and I have lived in both provinces, currently in AB. As far as I am concerned AB fisheries managers can shove their fish tags where the sun doesn't shine. They are nothing more than a cash grab.

It ain’t no cash grab if you actually did the math so if that is the only reason as to why you or others dislike draws as a possible option you’re sadly misinformed.

I for one feel Lakers are terrible table fair however the best option that would land somewhere in the middle is a tight slot limit for a harvest of one fish that hopefully doesn’t collapse the fishery, allows those who want to keep a Laker once in a while, and hopefully enough slip past the slot size gauntlet to get to a trophy size.

[CBintheNorth]

While I understand most people's disdain for tags, we really have no better option in current circulation that can better control exact harvest numbers of a specific size.

While a slot size is a great way to target an age class, it has no way of regulating harvest numbers.
Cold lake sees tens of thousands of angler days per season. There is no way to control whether 1,000 fish are retained, or 10,000.
As far as I'm aware, Alberta has far more pressure on its lakes than any other province. Unfortunately for how often lake population studies are done, we usually don't find out there was an over harvest until it's too late.
It can take only a couple seasons to reduce the population to sustainable levels, but with lake trout it could take decades to recover from a collapsed fishery.

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Doesn’t change a thing in my opinion and likely won’t change anything I stated in that post

Just pointing out that things are changing which is a positive. And that information wasn't posted just for you.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by SNAPFisher

Just pointing out that things are changing which is a positive. And that information wasn't posted just for you.

Fair enough I responded because you quoted my post

Tags may work for some I just won’t take part in the system. I rarely keep fish anyway and have enough places near by I can keep one or two for dinner when I choose without tags

I will stay out of this thread from here on as even though I plan to fish the cold lake I don’t have a real stance on the issue with the lack of experience with the lake.

Whatever they decide to do hopefully it will benefit the fishery

[fish99]

lets hope that the fish population doesn't get to big and eat all the food and then get stunted like a lot of our over populated walleye lakes.

[-JR-]

One of the best Laker Trophy Lakes down south is Flaming George .
This is how they do it .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaUxU919fkw

PS I missed the live show on cold lake , has it been downloaded so one can see it again .

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by -JR-

One of the best Laker Trophy Lakes down south is Flaming George .
This is how they do it .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaUxU919fkw

PS I missed the live show on cold lake , has it been downloaded so one can see it again .

LOL! That is Flaming Gorge. If you google Flaming George you are likely to end up with something other than lake trout...

Cold Lake / North East session:
https://youtu.be/ypc4x0n7SOc

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by -JR-

This is how they do it .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaUxU919fkw

Yeah, I'm sure there are anglers up here wishing we had the same problem at Cold Lake.

FYI, that is also the section of the Green River I've fished for trout. Best brown trout experience I think any of us could have. It is an amazing river as well. Highly recommend a trip to this area.

[eyeflyer]

Originally Posted by Frank_NK28

And I'm one of those anglers that doesn't support it and I have lived in both provinces, currently in AB. As far as I am concerned AB fisheries managers can shove their fish tags where the sun doesn't shine. They are nothing more than a cash grab.

I don't really like the tags either but we definitely need a controlled harvest. What either kind of size and number for controlled harvest have you seen that is better?

[AlbertanGP]

Anyone have any Cliff Notes for the Northwest Region Fisheries Update on Thursday night? I signed up but then wound up overnighting on a nearby lake to check on a friend's ice shack for him. I didn't see anything of interest in the itinerary, but who knows what came up in the Q&A.

[kouleerunner]

Originally Posted by AlbertanGP

Anyone have any Cliff Notes for the Northwest Region Fisheries Update on Thursday night? I signed up but then wound up overnighting on a nearby lake to check on a friend's ice shack for him. I didn't see anything of interest in the itinerary, but who knows what came up in the Q&A.

https://youtu.be/qODMYcqFoFQ

[AlbertanGP]

Originally Posted by kouleerunner

https://youtu.be/qODMYcqFoFQ

You should attend/review one of these seminars if you ever want to know what we're up against in Alberta. All anyone wants to know is when they can keep fish in closed lakes. Really disappointing to sit through tbh.

[Frank_NK28]

Originally Posted by -JR-

One of the best Laker Trophy Lakes down south is Flaming George .
This is how they do it .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaUxU919fkw

PS I missed the live show on cold lake , has it been downloaded so one can see it again .

I don't think that would fly with this crowd, the horror of actually keeping a fish from AB waters would be too much for them to bear.

[kouleerunner]

Originally Posted by AlbertanGP

You should attend/review one of these seminars if you ever want to know what we're up against in Alberta. All anyone wants to know is when they can keep fish in closed lakes. Really disappointing to sit through tbh.

I have sat live in as many as possible, and went to as Many in person meetings preCovid as possible. Are they listening to us, or just living in an Echo chamber and making excuses. I don't trust the FIN testing, and on top. Of that, they don't seem to follow thier own data? Is it ideological or top down driven?

[Frank_NK28]

Originally Posted by AlbertanGP

You should attend/review one of these seminars if you ever want to know what we're up against in Alberta. All anyone wants to know is when they can keep fish in closed lakes. Really disappointing to sit through tbh.

Originally Posted by kouleerunner

I have sat live in as many as possible, and went to as Many in person meetings preCovid as possible. Are they listening to us, or just living in an Echo chamber and making excuses. I don't trust the FIN testing, and on top. Of that, they don't seem to follow thier own data? Is it ideological or top down driven?

I watched the Cold Lake seminar on youtube last night. There was some interesting facts on growth rates, sub-species within the lake etc. I found though that a few times they sounded more like politicians deflecting answers when questioned on some data. I was disappointed that they did not have some of that data in front of them to refer to for the answers. I thought the idea was called fisheries engagement so in that regard I would have expected they would have had that data in front of them to be able to answer those questions.

Based on my experience doing creel surveys, index netting, analyzing numbers and data entry etc. when I worked for the MNR in Ontario I smiled when when the answer to a question on which slot size would give the best chance at the possibility of providing more trophy sized fish when the bio quoted the 65-70cm slot. I had already put that down on my choice as based on my previous experience working in fisheries and with their computerized model they used it seems like the best option. If some of those age class and size of fish are not removed you are going to continue to see an increase in numbers and a downsize in the average fish and end up with the same issue many of the Walleye, Pike and Perch lakes are having with stunted fish and lack of feed.

I kind of wish there had ben more discussion on bait bans. I wish I had been able to join the live feed and pose the question are they looking at banning all bait or just baitfish? I see no reason to eliminate the use of leeches, worms, maggots etc. for those pursuing walleye and perch. Those are not traditional baits for Lake Trout and I doubt many would start baiting lures and jigs etc. with them for Lake Trout? Eliminating the use of baitfish however I have no issue with.

I am glad the mortality rates of C&R were discussed when the question of a total C&R fishery was brought up and I hope it was an eye opener to some to hear the C&R mortality rates. 15% in summer and 10% in winter. That means in summer for every 100 Lakers caught 15 die and in winter 10 out of every 100! Kind of makes one stop and think about their 100+ catch days of fishing.

The combined mortality rates from C&R, natural mortality and illegal harvest currently sit at 25%. It was clear to anyone willing to listen that C&R was the largest portion of the mortality rate. Hopefully that number will be reduced then by allowing a catch of some slot sized fish. Since a large part of the Lake Trout population falls into the first two slot sized options I suspect many anglers if catching a fish they can keep will not be fishing their way through dozens and dozens of fish trying to find one 75cm fish to take home as many currently hope for. I would think many, especially the average angler, not the die hard avid angler would be satisfied I am sure to catch a couple fish, keep one to eat and call it quits for the day.

It will be interesting to see which choice they make after their consultations with SK upon completion of their fisheries engagement and see what regulation changes, if any eventually come about.

To those who have not already, you have until February 19 to fill out the survey. I'd recommend watching the video on youtube then take part in the survey. This is your chance to have your say so take part. No point complaining about the regs you have to follow if you can't take a few minutes of your time to educate yourself and participate in bringing about a change.

Now the waiting...until then tight lines.

[CBintheNorth]

Bit of an update this morning.

"I hope you've all been doing well. I'm pleased to share with you the 2023-24 sportfishing regulation engagement what we heard report, where you will find that 50.3% of survey respondents chose a 65-70 cm slot limit for one lake trout and 66.7% of survey respondents did not support a bait ban. We are in the processing of adding this document to our alberta.ca engagement webpage.
Thank you to everyone who shared the engagement amongst their circles and to those who participated!

We will keep you updated once Saskatchewan has completed their public engagement, however if you have questions, please don't hesitate to reach out to us in the meantime!"

[SNAPFisher]

Thanks for the update!