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  #31  
Old 05-23-2020, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Like what? Closing down everything except where everyone in town needs to go?

We have had more people shopping in our town from Calgary in the last two months than we ever have. They are coming here to stay safe. What an absolute joke.
Wouldn't it make sense to lock down the centers with a higher than normal # of cases? Ahem...Calgary...cough cough. Nobody in, nobody out. Be selfish not to.
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  #32  
Old 05-23-2020, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck View Post
Just got back from a trip to Canadian Tire here. Looks like the old normal. People just going about their business, like they pretty much have through this whole Pandemic. I saw two people wearing masks. Nobody cared. I felt comfortable with humans.

We have had 6 confirmed cases in GP, so far, with 3 of those recovered. We must all be uncaring unfeeling monsters. Pretty weak sauce for a pandemic.

My best friend's dad passed away early this morning. He was 92. Covid didn't get him. The sun rises and sets. Pretty soon it will be fall, then winter.

Amazing.
I talk with a huge amount of people every day in person and not on the internet, and I would honestly not give it even a 1 in 10 that are truly ďscaredĒ of the virus and even out of those, most concur that the fallout from what we have done in an attempt to arrest the spread is going to be far outweighed by the final results in so many other ways that people just donít seem to consider.

There is no doubt this virus is having some Immediate and direct negative and dire life and death effects to some people in the population, but the fallout of our approach also has some severe and dire life and death effects to many others as well. I guess my question is ďwhat makes one set of affected lives more or less important than others lives who are affected in other ways?Ē

Yes, people are and will continue to die or experience permanent damage from the virus, but how come the other fallout is largely ignored by the mass media, powers that be, or even just the general population? Things like suicides and mental illness (which is just as real an illness as covid) from the financial hardships. Things like the monies that are needed to save lives in other ways being redirected to support the shut downs. Things like the life saving surgeries that are not happening. Things even like simple screenings that are not being performed so things like cancers are not getting diagnosed and treated (I personally was just denied my annual physical and prostate screening that I do because my father died of it so I am careful).

The list goes on and on and anyone with even half a brain knows it does but the masses completely gloss over it and have the attitude that if we donít look it isnít there. I just donít get it.

I understand the fear in the populace is real, but why the heck do we have to be in one camp or the other? Why canít we all realize both camps have valid points and actually try and walk the middle ground rather than committing one side to idiocy and the other to righteousness? This entire thing is a tragedy, but not just because of the immediate sickness. Too many lives have been affected negatively for very valid reasons on both sides.

I donít have all the answers because none of us really know the concrete truth of the entire thing at the deepest levels, but the fact of the matter to me is people need to stop relying solely on everyone else to do give up everything for them. That isnít to say we donít reasonably help our neighbours (speaking metaphorically) but it is about time people do start taking a modicum of personal responsibility upon themselves rather than demanding other conform for them.
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  #33  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Headdamage View Post
My first response to this would not make it pass the automatic sensor so I'll limit myself to saying that you are not worth the oxygen you are using if you truly have that little regard for other people.

and that is why your handle is head damage
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  #34  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MK2750 View Post
Millions starving to death due to lack of donations and closed borders.

Billions of children not vaccinated for fear of covid.

Thousands with diagnosed cancer and missed life saving surgery.

Tens of thousands rolling the dice with heart problems.

Tens of thousands suffering from mental and physical abuse from financial stress.

An entire country doomed for generations paying for a trillion dollars in added debt.

HOWEVER, the threat is real! Stay in your basement and tough it out like the selfish leftest leader and his professional puppets say!

15 minutes ago Charles Adler talk show host eastern Canada said 450 thousand operations cancelled in 2 months for cancer and so on

if you thought wait times were long, just wait
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  #35  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Iron Brew View Post
There are so many not worth the breath here. But I will respond for those who have been putting themselves at risk.

Yes, Iíve been laid off.
Yes, i want to get back to work.

No, I donít want my parents to die. They have worse odds of surviving this if they catch it than they do of surviving Russian roulette. If that means you have to wait an extra six months to afford your quad, too effing bad.

Our first responders have been the ones paying for this stupidity. The soldiers who went in to help when all other resources failed are paying for this. If you are that callous about the risks they, firefighters, paramedics, nurses, and whole bunches more have been taking to try keep everyone else safe, how about you go do the training, and become employable in that field so when round two or three comes round you can take your place risking yourself and your family? We are the lucky ones getting to sit it out and protect our families by avoidance. My respect for those beaking without any skin in the game is slim to none. Go put your money where your mouths are. If you can pass the training.

Yes, the government did some things wrong. Things I think they should not have got wrong. But - we have never, in history, had something like this while ALSO having the resources we do. This is a learning experience and i hope like hell they have a faster reaction next time.
Please help me understand why post number 11 does not matter.
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  #36  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by bobtodrick View Post
Some just donít get it....weíve been fortunate because we did act fast.
If we didnít we could very well be in NY cityís predicament....adjusting for population weíd have 2500 deaths in both Calgary and Edmonton.
Or do you think Covid just doesnít like New Yorkers?
usually you are smarter than this

New York has a subway

Let me repeat for those who take a while

New York has a subway

you could not stop the spread of anything unless you close down the subway system
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  #37  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by tirebob View Post
I talk with a huge amount of people every day in person and not on the internet, and I would honestly not give it even a 1 in 10 that are truly ďscaredĒ of the virus and even out of those, most concur that the fallout from what we have done in an attempt to arrest the spread is going to be far outweighed by the final results in so many other ways that people just donít seem to consider.

There is no doubt this virus is having some Immediate and direct negative and dire life and death effects to some people in the population, but the fallout of our approach also has some severe and dire life and death effects to many others as well. I guess my question is ďwhat makes one set of affected lives more or less important than others lives who are affected in other ways?Ē

Yes, people are and will continue to die or experience permanent damage from the virus, but how come the other fallout is largely ignored by the mass media, powers that be, or even just the general population? Things like suicides and mental illness (which is just as real an illness as covid) from the financial hardships. Things like the monies that are needed to save lives in other ways being redirected to support the shut downs. Things like the life saving surgeries that are not happening. Things even like simple screenings that are not being performed so things like cancers are not getting diagnosed and treated (I personally was just denied my annual physical and prostate screening that I do because my father died of it so I am careful).

The list goes on and on and anyone with even half a brain knows it does but the masses completely gloss over it and have the attitude that if we donít look it isnít there. I just donít get it.

I understand the fear in the populace is real, but why the heck do we have to be in one camp or the other? Why canít we all realize both camps have valid points and actually try and walk the middle ground rather than committing one side to idiocy and the other to righteousness? This entire thing is a tragedy, but not just because of the immediate sickness. Too many lives have been affected negatively for very valid reasons on both sides.

I donít have all the answers because none of us really know the concrete truth of the entire thing at the deepest levels, but the fact of the matter to me is people need to stop relying solely on everyone else to do give up everything for them. That isnít to say we donít reasonably help our neighbours (speaking metaphorically) but it is about time people do start taking a modicum of personal responsibility upon themselves rather than demanding other conform for them.
Well said Bob. Particularly that bit about the moderate middle ground, and personal responsibility.
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  #38  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Smoky buck View Post
Most hospitals are seeing minimal traffic healthcare workers I know personally who are friends and family in BC, Alberta, and Ontario have had their hours cut back do to lack of traffic in the hospitals they work at

Your post may sound all self righteous but our front line workers are not under the level of threat you are trying to push. Maybe look at how many cases are actually in Canadian hospitals. Start looking for how many hospitals have 0 cases
Shh! Not so loud. Heads will explode!
The wilfully blind and those that toe the party line are experiencing it differently.
Only they understand the gospel according to sparkle socks and company; double standards don't apply to the glorious leader. The free money doesn't hurt either. In fact, it does wonders for buying toys and ensuring short term memory loss.
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  #39  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:17 PM
bobtodrick bobtodrick is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Cement Bench View Post
usually you are smarter than this

New York has a subway

Let me repeat for those who take a while

New York has a subway

you could not stop the spread of anything unless you close down the subway system
Not many subways in Brazil...another hot spot. Or Spain or Italy...they tend to have above ground systems as we do.
It boils down to those that reacted quickly got off lightly...rapid transit and subways are hugely popular in both South Korea and Taiwan....they acted quickly and got off lightly.
Or do you have another explanation.
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  #40  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:23 PM
Iron Brew Iron Brew is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Smoky buck View Post
Most hospitals are seeing minimal traffic healthcare workers I know personally who are friends and family in BC, Alberta, and Ontario have had their hours cut back do to lack of traffic in the hospitals they work at

Your post may sound all self righteous but our front line workers are not under the level of threat you are trying to push. Maybe look at how many cases are actually in Canadian hospitals. Start looking for how many hospitals have 0 cases
And that is directly due to the very actions people are railing against. If you donít think the Dina Hinshaws of Alberta (cause she isnít working alone) arenít taking these things into account, well... go do the training and take over. Stop pretending you know better than they do. Thatís why they went to school for as long as they did.
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  #41  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
I didnít say it was.

Darwin is right. How is Sweden looking now?


Sweden has 28% of Canada's population.

Deaths per million population = 384. Canada deaths per mill pop = 172.

Sweden's test rate one of the worst in Europe which is amazing considering their tax rates.
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  #42  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:33 PM
Iron Brew Iron Brew is offline
 
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Originally Posted by tri777 View Post
Here's the short version of what your saying:
"China releases flu like disease, Canadians go mad & rage at one another".
Who..and I mean 'WHO' should the hateful hate/"not worth the 'effing' oxygen" be directed at here..
Thereís definitely lots of lessons to go round. Iím guessing the next set of exams for public health specialists will have a lot of questions about this situation. I donít really care about WHO, but I guess the public health people have to. Iím more concerned with things like ďwhy didnít our government close the border to the US faster? Why didnít they close travel from infected areas in general faster?Ē Yeah, I know. There is a price to be paid when you close your travel to China, or the EU, or the USA. Political considerations are made.
As we see on this forum, it wouldnít matter what decisions were made, the experts in the public would say they are wrong.

So what would be right? Brazilís situation? New Yorkís? Lots of different management styles to look at. Who decides what the best result is? This is why politicians are paid. They are SUPPOSED to make decisions knowing they have no right answer. Make the best they can.
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  #43  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:35 PM
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How do we fix this?

Simple.

Follow the guidelines (they have been discussed at length - so everyone knows what they are).

Do that without a bunch of sniveling and things will soon be back to normal.
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  #44  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckhead View Post
How do we fix this?

Simple.

Follow the guidelines (they have been discussed at length - so everyone knows what they are).

Do that without a bunch of sniveling and things will soon be back to normal.
x2
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  #45  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:52 PM
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by laying around and continue to complain.....nothing new.
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  #46  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bobtodrick View Post
Some just donít get it....weíve been fortunate because we did act fast.
If we didnít we could very well be in NY cityís predicament....adjusting for population weíd have 2500 deaths in both Calgary and Edmonton.
Or do you think Covid just doesnít like New Yorkers?
This is absolutely wrong.
The governor of New York Cuomo, on March 24 put forth an order that elderly living, senior centers etc could NOT deny anyone admittance who gas tested positive or is already suffering from covid. He put fuel on the fire in the closed in petri dishes.
Also the declaration of no elective surgery in area hospitals... in the US hospitals treating ventilated covid patients get a government stippend of over 30k. Npn ventilated case treated within 11k. This explains why there is so much falsifying deaths, which has been exposed.
In those hard hit areas of new york the population is 27k per square mile, made up largely of immigrants, homeless and low income folks who dont have the immune systems many have.
There are many other inaccuracies but the long and the short of it is Cuomo was terrible at the helm.

osky
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  #47  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Flyguy View Post
How about we round up a big group of AO Covid-19 deniers and we all go out for Chinese food! Make it they, I'll go fishing instead!
Totally in....MMMMM....Chinese food, and the we all go fishing after
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  #48  
Old 05-23-2020, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Headdamage View Post
My first response to this would not make it pass the automatic sensor so I'll limit myself to saying that you are not worth the oxygen you are using if you truly have that little regard for other people.
X one zillion
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  #49  
Old 05-23-2020, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bobtodrick View Post
Not many subways in Brazil...another hot spot. Or Spain or Italy...they tend to have above ground systems as we do.
It boils down to those that reacted quickly got off lightly...rapid transit and subways are hugely popular in both South Korea and Taiwan....they acted quickly and got off lightly.
Or do you have another explanation.
Well Italy average age of death is 81.... take a look at texas or florida or even california... texas and florida barely shut stuff down and have small numbers compared to NY. In NY over 60% of new cases were from ppl in isolation. There is actually very little correlation in the entire world between being very strict and low covid numbers... now you can handpick a few places where it does correlate but you could also handpick a few where very little restrictions and very low numbers correlate. Just remember correlation does not always equal causation
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  #50  
Old 05-23-2020, 03:09 PM
MyAlberta MyAlberta is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Osky View Post
This is absolutely wrong.
The governor of New York Cuomo, on March 24 put forth an order that elderly living, senior centers etc could NOT deny anyone admittance who gas tested positive or is already suffering from covid. He put fuel on the fire in the closed in petri dishes.
Also the declaration of no elective surgery in area hospitals... in the US hospitals treating ventilated covid patients get a government stippend of over 30k. Npn ventilated case treated within 11k. This explains why there is so much falsifying deaths, which has been exposed.
In those hard hit areas of new york the population is 27k per square mile, made up largely of immigrants, homeless and low income folks who dont have the immune systems many have.
There are many other inaccuracies but the long and the short of it is Cuomo was terrible at the helm.

osky
What?
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  #51  
Old 05-23-2020, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Cement Bench View Post
usually you are smarter than this

New York has a subway

Let me repeat for those who take a while

New York has a subway

you could not stop the spread of anything unless you close down the subway system
Cuomo and his favourite mayor have a lot of blood on their hands.
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  #52  
Old 05-23-2020, 03:13 PM
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Even with the gong show south of the border, fatality numbers seem to be decreasing every week. Looks like the numbers peaked from late March until early May. Appears population density played a huge role.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

Here in Canada, over 80% of the fatalities were in long term care facilities, so it seems like there major problems in LTC's. Sad that so many of the people that helped build this country are treated so poorly (as are the veterans). Our government would rather focus on sending the money out of the country, or hand it out in various forms of welfare to buy more votes.
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  #53  
Old 05-23-2020, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MyAlberta View Post
What?
First rule of Covid 19. Quit watching CNN.
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  #54  
Old 05-23-2020, 03:21 PM
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So i take it alot of you are more than willing to put your parents at risk it not near the threat to the younger
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  #55  
Old 05-23-2020, 03:34 PM
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So i take it alot of you are more than willing to put your parents at risk it not near the threat to the younger
First post? I'm supposed to believe a 'new guy' did that as a first post? Hmmmm. I call 'recycle'.

Anyway, back to how do we fix this? Wear your mask. If you want. Don't, if you don't want to. Social distance. It's easy as most people are actually objectionable, it seems like from this forum. Wash your hands, and cough into your elbow. Unless you don't have to cough. Stay at home. Unless it's essential that you go out. All these things will flatten the curve. Unless there is no curve. It's a horrifying and deadly virus. That has a 99% survival rate. But if you are vulnerable, demand that the entire economy of the world shut down and people go on welfare. Instead of just demanding that the vulnerable be looked after with any modicum of concern and care. And all the people that have other health issues that need attention but can't get it (like my wife) because everything got shut down for the Pandemic....too damn bad. Stop complaining, this is a serious situation. Except for the vast majority of humanity. But we will bankrupt you and then you'll see this is serious.

Did I miss anything that health care experts and clever politicians have said?
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  #56  
Old 05-23-2020, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by All Out View Post
So i take it alot of you are more than willing to put your parents at risk it not near the threat to the younger
I donít live with my parents.
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  #57  
Old 05-23-2020, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by MountainTi View Post
Wouldn't it make sense to lock down the centers with a higher than normal # of cases? Ahem...Calgary...cough cough. Nobody in, nobody out. Be selfish not to.
Agreed.
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  #58  
Old 05-23-2020, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by All Out View Post
So i take it alot of you are more than willing to put your parents at risk it not near the threat to the younger
You can do your part by staying in the basement to avoid contact
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  #59  
Old 05-23-2020, 04:00 PM
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We are the guinea pigs because they do not have a model for viral lockdowns.
This is the first time this has happened.

Late 50ís and late 60ís when the H1 & H2 we did not have lockdowns or the same social media coverage and 1.1M and 1M died from this viruses. Herd immunity prevailed.
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  #60  
Old 05-23-2020, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bobtodrick View Post
Not many subways in Brazil...another hot spot. Or Spain or Italy...they tend to have above ground systems as we do.
It boils down to those that reacted quickly got off lightly...rapid transit and subways are hugely popular in both South Korea and Taiwan....they acted quickly and got off lightly.
Or do you have another explanation.
Yes Florida Sweden and many USA states. 6 I think did nothing and have very few cases

Montana. Also.
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