OH&S got some teeth

[Big Daddy Badger]

Seems like a good idea to me.
Who isn't tried of lip service being paid to safety by folks that know there is no tangible personal accountability?

Pay me now or pay me later...invest in and make a real effort towards compliance or pay for ignoring, stalling and dithering about.

How it is rolled out will make the difference in the end though.

A fine might be more palatable than improvement.

Just ask Tech Cominco...a few years ago they intentionally allowed workers...all of whome are dead now to be exposed to a chemical.

The resulting lawsuit revealed that they had cost captured the price of clean-up and of fines.

The workers lost their lives but Cominco saved money.

http://www.carpentersunionbc.com/Pag...construct.html

[Big Daddy Badger]

[QUOTE=Vingiu;2110223]Instead of giving OH&S the power to fine noncompliant individuals, how about just giving them the ability to sack the incompetent buffoons who allow such noncompliant individuals to be hired in the first place? That would have a much deeper resonance in the industry, in my opinion. If you hire the right type of people in the first place, you won't have these issues.[/QUOTE]

Well given the attitude generally displayed here towards OH&S.... a lot of forum members might find themselves out of work then...wouldn't they?

Nobody likes to be told what to do by an outsider.
Nobody likes someone looking over their shoulder.
But... there is a reason that person is there and its that while one might be an expert in their field... few are also expert in Occupational Health or ready to unlearn old habits when standards change.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

Training
Alberta is a transient work environment with many jobs switching hands rapidly. Always people coming and going.the turnover rate on some sites is staggerring. Just not enough time for proper orientation and training. The way a fast paced economy works.

Yep training and accountability, this place is based on money, high wages, so worker chooses not to adhere to safety regulations hit them where it hurts right in the pocket book, same goes with rogue companies. This will grab attention quickly, sad but its another tactic to make employers/employees work safe...we will see the outcome in a year or so when the numbers are in.

[Deo101]

Originally Posted by Bobby B.

My intent was to link grass and booze to safety, not to derail this thread.

IMO, OHS should come down hard on those who ignore safety regulations. If the employer breaks the rules, jump on him hard. If the employee breaks the rules, jump on him hard. IMO, what happens now is the blame is shared, regardless of who is at fault. In a sense, fines should be 'user pays'.

In addition, OHS cannot be allowed to simply place unreasonable expectations on either the employer or the employee merely to cover OHS's own ass and exempt them from all responsibility. Likewise, whoever is dictating the strategies to OHS must also be reasonable. Otherwise, everyone is merely 'passing the buck' onto someone else and very little is being accomplished.

As always, more and more rules do not equate to achievement of desired goals. It is simply impossible to legislate perfection as **** will always happen. When it does, hold the offender responsible. However, bear in mind that accidents can and do happen. I mean 'true' accidents, ones that happen despite careful precautions to prevent their occurence.

Bobby B.

Dollars to doughnuts half your Roofers are stoned. Also this is already enforceable and 500 tickets aren't going to change anything on that front. Bad example and I won't get into the double standards in this thread.

I think personal accountability is a good thing but this is likely more of a money grab... kind of torn on the thought of the tickets. I just know that companies often get nailed to the wall over "the bad apple"

The above poster is bang on saying Training is what is needed in Alberta more than anything. I've never been trained in any oilfield job to where I felt comfortable what I was doing. Been thrown the wolves so to speak. Luckily I grew up a farm kid and have some sense around equipment. Some guys I've seen show up however you're worried, that they might take you all out.

[M.C. Gusto]

Ticketing will make a positive difference. Too many companies out there having untrained workers doing dangerous jobs. Having administrative penalties for these companies hopefully will make a difference.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by M.C. Gusto

Ticketing will make a positive difference. Too many companies out there having untrained workers doing dangerous jobs. Having administrative penalties for these companies hopefully will make a difference.

If thats the case, i hope just the companies are fined and not the workers.

[M.C. Gusto]

Lots of good compamies out there with bad workers also. If the company has a decent H&S system but a worker or workers are not following it they will be ticketed and not the company. I like that there are administrative penalties for the company and the smaller worker penalties.

[450Marlin]

www.boychuksroofing.ca

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by M.C. Gusto

Lots of good compamies out there with bad workers also. If the company has a decent H&S system but a worker or workers are not following it they will be ticketed and not the company. I like that there are administrative penalties for the company and the smaller worker penalties.

From what i understand, if i get caught smoking in a company truck, i may face a 250.00 fine and my boss gets 1000.00 fine.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by Deo101

Dollars to doughnuts half your Roofers are stoned. Also this is already enforceable and 500 tickets aren't going to change anything on that front. Bad example and I won't get into the double standards in this thread.

I think personal accountability is a good thing but this is likely more of a money grab... kind of torn on the thought of the tickets. I just know that companies often get nailed to the wall over "the bad apple"

The above poster is bang on saying Training is what is needed in Alberta more than anything. I've never been trained in any oilfield job to where I felt comfortable what I was doing. Been thrown the wolves so to speak. Luckily I grew up a farm kid and have some sense around equipment. Some guys I've seen show up however you're worried, that they might take you all out.

Training is very important. But it alone will not cut it. Some companies choose to take "shortcuts" creating safety issues. Some places are lax in having employees comply. Fines likely will help.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by M.C. Gusto

Ticketing will make a positive difference. Too many companies out there having untrained workers doing dangerous jobs. Having administrative penalties for these companies hopefully will make a difference.

If the workers are untrained, the fines should go to the company, not to the worker.
edit: Agree with PP

[Vingiu]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

So instead of issuing fines you want to give the government the right to fire any of your employees they see fit.... hmmmmmm. Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

Way to balloon a single statement into a full blown philosophy... Then again, that's what online forums are for

My post was in particular response to the idea of dealing with repeated non-compliers, as was stated in the OP... If a company's staff keeps repeating the same offenses, we oughta locate the deeper problem eh? Clearly someone in management needs to give their head a shake. If a company CHOOSES to hire strung-out party-maniac drunks (etc etc etc), they oughta be shut down (or at the very least, have their hiring managers reprimanded or removed). There you go.

[Vingiu]

[QUOTE=Big Daddy Badger;2110393]

Originally Posted by Vingiu

Instead of giving OH&S the power to fine noncompliant individuals, how about just giving them the ability to sack the incompetent buffoons who allow such noncompliant individuals to be hired in the first place? That would have a much deeper resonance in the industry, in my opinion. If you hire the right type of people in the first place, you won't have these issues.[/QUOTE]

Well given the attitude generally displayed here towards OH&S.... a lot of forum members might find themselves out of work then...wouldn't they?

Nobody likes to be told what to do by an outsider.
Nobody likes someone looking over their shoulder.
But... there is a reason that person is there and its that while one might be an expert in their field... few are also expert in Occupational Health or ready to unlearn old habits when standards change.

A number of good points there.

Sometimes I can't figure out whether you agree with me or not...

[Bushrat]

Been in my trade for 35 years, have never seen an inspector. Have never seen rules or information regarding regulations applying to my trade, auto body and painting. Where do I find this information? How often are they supposed to inspect?

[hal53]

At our spring meetings in Calgary we had the head of inspections for OH&S, come in for a 2 hr talk. By the end of the first hour this Irish gentleman was absolutely salivating about how much they were going to collect, our completions manager finally got a moment to interrupt and asked ' isn't OH&S's primary responsibility to protect the workers in the work place?", he replied "oh yes, that's why we're hitting them where it will hurt them". you can probably figure out he lost the attention of the room at that point

[rugatika]

If anything they do actually increases safety then great. What it will turn out to be is a bunch of bureaucrats riding around looking for some schmo to get out of his truck to take a wiz without his hard hat on at some gas well in the middle of nowhere.

There's a big difference between being safe and blindly following all the desk jockey dictates. (my apologies to all desk jockey's)

I'm of the general opinion that giving gov't MORE power and more access to our money is usually a bad thing. Not always...but usually.

[Bobby B.]

Originally Posted by Deo101

Dollars to doughnuts half your Roofers are stoned. Also this is already enforceable and 500 tickets aren't going to change anything on that front. Bad example and I won't get into the double standards in this thread.

I think personal accountability is a good thing but this is likely more of a money grab... kind of torn on the thought of the tickets. I just know that companies often get nailed to the wall over "the bad apple"

The above poster is bang on saying Training is what is needed in Alberta more than anything. I've never been trained in any oilfield job to where I felt comfortable what I was doing. Been thrown the wolves so to speak. Luckily I grew up a farm kid and have some sense around equipment. Some guys I've seen show up however you're worried, that they might take you all out.

You must be stoned to want to bet 1/2 my roofers are stoned. Pretty clear and obvious you're impaired from this statement, Some guys I've seen show up however you're worried, that they might take you all out. Must make perfect sense if you're stoned.

Bobby B.

[marxman]

how will we know if one of these safety weasels is approaching are they uniformed?undercover? what kind of person who knows nothing about my job would want to fine me?

[Big Daddy Badger]

[QUOTE=Vingiu;2110520]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

A number of good points there.

Sometimes I can't figure out whether you agree with me or not...

I agree with fines aimed at improving the workplace.
I do not agree with the idea that people should be sacked by an outsider.

[blackpheasant]

OH&S minders at every jobsite, woo hoo can't wait, I wonder what the next big revenue collection scheme will be, gotta love BiG Government...miss ya Ralphie

[hal53]

It's the Liberal way....any problem in society, don't fix it, tax it......that'll work, remember folks we have some pretty shiny pensions we have to pay for.....and please I don't need to be reminded that the red queen is a C....she is not..........

[huntmaster83]

Creative sentencing at least, money will go towards colleges, funds/bursaries, various training programs/courses in industry and health such as burn units/hospitals, etc not a gov pool. Have to come to a half way meeting point, old boys club of you haven't been here doing my job vs over policing. The end result should be to target those who choose to knowingly completely disregard safety and endanger themselves and others around them. We should be blessed to live in a country that is making such a steam over safety and each person. Inconvenience sometimes maybe, but hop on one leg for a day or kiss your kids goodbye forever one morning.... Everyone deserves to go home at night to their family no matter what, no job is worth your life. Kinda sad to think that this is the case now in 2013....

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/po...376/story.html

The number of workplace fatalities across Alberta shot up 18 per cent last year — and is on pace in 2013 to shatter a decades-old record for people dying on the job.

Data from the provincial government shows 145 occupational fatalities occurred in Alberta last year, the highest number reported since the height of the economic boom in 2008.

Throughout 2012, a total of 36 workers died in motor vehicle accidents, 58 from occupational diseases — such as exposure to asbestos or toxic chemicals — and 51 were killed in workplace incidents.

The grim toll has continued throughout 2013, with the province reporting 104 fatalities up until the end of June.

If the pace continues, more than 200 people will die on the job this year — eclipsing the 169 deaths reported in 1980 and in 1982. The worst year on record saw 221 employees killed in 1914, including 189 who perished in the Hillcrest mine disaster, according to data compiled by the Alberta Federation of Labour.

“I think it’s a shocking number, that you’ve got 100 fatalities already,” Ken Kobly, CEO of the Alberta Chambers of Commerce, said Monday. “It stymies me as to why this is happening.”

In the first half of this year, 54 people died due to occupational diseases, while another 22 were killed in motor-vehicle accidents and 28 in workplace incidents.

“Incidents” covers everything from the worker who died in February from injuries in a house explosion, to the construction worker who was killed in June after falling off a ladder, rolling under a train and being crushed.

“Something has to be done to stop this carnage,” AFL president Gil McGowan said Monday. “Fatality rates are rising to horrific levels and I think the time has come for ordinary Albertans to start protesting and demanding more from their government and their employers.”

Provincial officials say it’s unclear precisely why workplace fatalities are on the upswing, but they believe a surging population — Alberta is expected to top four million people this year — is a factor.

“As the population of Alberta grows, we’re going to see — we do see — increased numbers for all kinds of unfortunate statistics ... including people killed on the job sites,” said Occupational Health and Safety spokesman Brookes Merritt.

“We do see those ebbs and flows that go along with our population.”

Provincial figures shed some light on what’s driving the increase this year. While there has been a slight year-over-year hike in workers dying in vehicle accidents or workplace incidents, deaths from occupational-related diseases accepted by the Workers’ Compensation Board have soared.

WCB spokesman Randy Kilburn said there is no official explanation for the spike, noting most of the cases involve illnesses that began on work sites years ago. “There were exposures back to the 1960s and ’70s, people with asbestosis, COPD, mesothelioma,” he said.

Liberal MLA David Swann, a medical doctor, said these numbers show how society is still grappling with “well-understood and preventable” diseases.

On the broader upswing in worker fatalities, Swann believes a “weakened” OHS hasn’t been able to keep up with the growing workforce and increasing pace of development.

“My sense from people out on the work sites is that there is very little surveillance, that there are all kinds of corners being cut, that the business side of it is so strongly emphasized and the competition out there is so fierce,” he said.

But workplace safety advocate Julie Hamilton, whose son Timothy was electrocuted while erecting a tent for a corporate Stampede breakfast in 1999, said most businesses are concerned about their employees’ safety.

“What they haven’t done is nail the ones that aren’t,” she said.

Provincial figures show the construction industry had the largest number of fatalities last year — 42 deaths — in 2012, followed by the transportation, communication and utilities sector.

Construction volumes have increased in the province, but more analysis must be done to understand the reason for the increase in fatalities, said Ken Gibson, executive director of the Alberta Construction Association.

“We can’t take lightly any fatality,” Gibson said. “We need to do the homework to get a sense if there are emerging trends and what kind of responses we can put in place.”

From the province’s perspective, Merritt said the government is set to introduce a new system of workplace safety fines that can see both employers and workers given $500 tickets on the spot for offences such as not wearing a hard hat. It also allows administrative penalties of up to $10,000 for businesses that have been found to repeatedly ignore regulations.

cvarcoe@calgaryheald.com

[TRAPPER92]

The industry with the highest work place accident incidents is the farming industry. It is also the only industry that OH&S or WCB does not have jurisdiction over. Coincidence??

With the family farm on the way out and corporate farms on the way in, farms are hiring full time employees more and more. Alberta has refused to "burden" farmers with these extra costs at the expense of these employees.

It is time they stepped up to the plate and start regulating the safety and employee equability in this industry also.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by huntmaster83

Creative sentencing at least, money will go towards colleges, funds/bursaries, various training programs/courses in industry and health such as burn units/hospitals, etc not a gov pool. Have to come to a half way meeting point, old boys club of you haven't been here doing my job vs over policing. The end result should be to target those who choose to knowingly completely disregard safety and endanger themselves and others around them. We should be blessed to live in a country that is making such a steam over safety and each person. Inconvenience sometimes maybe, but hop on one leg for a day or kiss your kids goodbye forever one morning.... Everyone deserves to go home at night to their family no matter what, no job is worth your life. Kinda sad to think that this is the case now in 2013....

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/po...376/story.html

The number of workplace fatalities across Alberta shot up 18 per cent last year — and is on pace in 2013 to shatter a decades-old record for people dying on the job.

Data from the provincial government shows 145 occupational fatalities occurred in Alberta last year, the highest number reported since the height of the economic boom in 2008.

Throughout 2012, a total of 36 workers died in motor vehicle accidents, 58 from occupational diseases — such as exposure to asbestos or toxic chemicals — and 51 were killed in workplace incidents.

The grim toll has continued throughout 2013, with the province reporting 104 fatalities up until the end of June.

If the pace continues, more than 200 people will die on the job this year — eclipsing the 169 deaths reported in 1980 and in 1982. The worst year on record saw 221 employees killed in 1914, including 189 who perished in the Hillcrest mine disaster, according to data compiled by the Alberta Federation of Labour.

“I think it’s a shocking number, that you’ve got 100 fatalities already,” Ken Kobly, CEO of the Alberta Chambers of Commerce, said Monday. “It stymies me as to why this is happening.”

In the first half of this year, 54 people died due to occupational diseases, while another 22 were killed in motor-vehicle accidents and 28 in workplace incidents.

“Incidents” covers everything from the worker who died in February from injuries in a house explosion, to the construction worker who was killed in June after falling off a ladder, rolling under a train and being crushed.

“Something has to be done to stop this carnage,” AFL president Gil McGowan said Monday. “Fatality rates are rising to horrific levels and I think the time has come for ordinary Albertans to start protesting and demanding more from their government and their employers.”

Provincial officials say it’s unclear precisely why workplace fatalities are on the upswing, but they believe a surging population — Alberta is expected to top four million people this year — is a factor.

“As the population of Alberta grows, we’re going to see — we do see — increased numbers for all kinds of unfortunate statistics ... including people killed on the job sites,” said Occupational Health and Safety spokesman Brookes Merritt.

“We do see those ebbs and flows that go along with our population.”

Provincial figures shed some light on what’s driving the increase this year. While there has been a slight year-over-year hike in workers dying in vehicle accidents or workplace incidents, deaths from occupational-related diseases accepted by the Workers’ Compensation Board have soared.

WCB spokesman Randy Kilburn said there is no official explanation for the spike, noting most of the cases involve illnesses that began on work sites years ago. “There were exposures back to the 1960s and ’70s, people with asbestosis, COPD, mesothelioma,” he said.

Liberal MLA David Swann, a medical doctor, said these numbers show how society is still grappling with “well-understood and preventable” diseases.

On the broader upswing in worker fatalities, Swann believes a “weakened” OHS hasn’t been able to keep up with the growing workforce and increasing pace of development.

“My sense from people out on the work sites is that there is very little surveillance, that there are all kinds of corners being cut, that the business side of it is so strongly emphasized and the competition out there is so fierce,” he said.

But workplace safety advocate Julie Hamilton, whose son Timothy was electrocuted while erecting a tent for a corporate Stampede breakfast in 1999, said most businesses are concerned about their employees’ safety.

“What they haven’t done is nail the ones that aren’t,” she said.

Provincial figures show the construction industry had the largest number of fatalities last year — 42 deaths — in 2012, followed by the transportation, communication and utilities sector.

Construction volumes have increased in the province, but more analysis must be done to understand the reason for the increase in fatalities, said Ken Gibson, executive director of the Alberta Construction Association.

“We can’t take lightly any fatality,” Gibson said. “We need to do the homework to get a sense if there are emerging trends and what kind of responses we can put in place.”

From the province’s perspective, Merritt said the government is set to introduce a new system of workplace safety fines that can see both employers and workers given $500 tickets on the spot for offences such as not wearing a hard hat. It also allows administrative penalties of up to $10,000 for businesses that have been found to repeatedly ignore regulations.

cvarcoe@calgaryheald.com

Thanks for posting!

[Deo101]

Originally Posted by Bobby B.

You must be stoned to want to bet 1/2 my roofers are stoned. Pretty clear and obvious you're impaired from this statement, Some guys I've seen show up however you're worried, that they might take you all out. Must make perfect sense if you're stoned.

Bobby B.

The paranoia or the grammar? haha

[M.C. Gusto]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

If the workers are untrained, the fines should go to the company, not to the worker.
edit: Agree with PP

Thats what im saying. Administrative (big fines) will go to the company if they see fit.

As for smoking on a work site thats a bylaw infraction. Way to many people dying over lack of training or working with other dangerous workers. I stand behind the fines.

[Zip]

Originally Posted by TRAPPER92

The industry with the highest work place accident incidents is the farming industry. It is also the only industry that OH&S or WCB does not have jurisdiction over. Coincidence??

With the family farm on the way out and corporate farms on the way in, farms are hiring full time employees more and more. Alberta has refused to "burden" farmers with these extra costs at the expense of these employees.

It is time they stepped up to the plate and start regulating the safety and employee equability in this industry also.

Your statement is spot on..farmers need to start taking steps to keep themselves safe...or get fined just like every other business.i agree with ya on this one for sure TRAPPER92..your first paragraph just says it all...