Plumbing, condos, common property and liability

[Erik]

If a fixture of plumbing backs up, would the cause of that backup not exist in common property? The area of water outlet is not necessarily the source of the problem in an apartment style condominium?

[bigfishen]

Which fixture or fixtures is the back up coming from? Usually the only plumbing that is common between suites is the drainage stack or vent stack.

[MAC]

Originally Posted by Erik

If a fixture of plumbing backs up, would the cause of that backup not exist in common property? The area of water outlet is not necessarily the source of the problem in an apartment style condominium?

Usually but not always a sure thing. A sink, tub or laundry drain can back up due to blockage in a common stack and all water from units above will build until it backs up to a point and then can flow out the lowest point above the blockage.
What is your question. Trying to determine liability for a problem?

MAC

[benamen]

Guy I know owns a condo in Vegas. While he is in Canada, a poor solder joint let's loose and floods his place and the place below it. By the time he has a chance to get down there, everything has been repaired and there was no charge to him.

[Erik]

Kitchen sink back-up. Property management coming after me. Not sure where the liability lies.

[FishingMOM]

Originally Posted by Erik

Kitchen sink back-up. Property management coming after me. Not sure where the liability lies.

That is normal. They assume you sent crap down the line, so unless you can prove that the units below you are clogged you will get the bill

[MAC]

Are they saying you caused it? What are they looking to collect from you. Clearing the line? Repair costs for your unit or other units?
Condo Bylaws can be all over the place. Do you have personal tenants/owners insurance.

MAC

[CaberTosser]

Did you watch the work being done? Its often difficult to tell where a drain became cleared when augering it, especially for ones such as kitchen or bathroom sinks where the pipe isn't full when its being cleared; in such instances I always run the entire cable out of my machine so as to prevent cleared material from finding and plugging at the next bottleneck where build-up may have accumulated. For a main sewer with standing water its very obvious when they clear as its both visible and even audible when there's standing water & nastiness that suddenly disappears. I don't know about condo bylaws, but I do know plumbing: at what point in the drain pipe dies the strata end if such a thing is even spelled out? If the blockage is in the p-trap that is obviously the occupants doing, but I had cleared a blockage within the last 2 years where the occupant in the suite above using their sink would back up into the occupant's kitchen sink below; that quite obviously was not the fault of the person below.

Its impossible to speculate where your back-up was sourced from without having been the fellow who cleared it.

I work in a few condo's and it rubs me the wrong way that we're not supposed to discuss much with the residents. Technically our client is the property manager, but they're still paid by condo fees, but if we pizz them off its no more work from them.... Residents can often either misconstrue what we say and go annoy the property manager, or understand what we say and go annoy the property manager. In buildings with certain reoccurring plumbing issues we have to either talk like politicians and redirect the question with technical gibberish or simply 'plead the 5th'.

Usually if I'm doing such work where the bill may or may not wind up going to the occupant I make the cause of the issue abundantly clear; either if the occupant was to blame or if it was just a base building issue, I detail it to ensure the bill goes to the party responsible. So many condo people lack the most basic understanding of common maintenance or building mechanics it makes me shake my head at their voluntary helplessness (general statement, not directed towards the OP)

[MAC]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

Did you watch the work being done? Its often difficult to tell where a drain became cleared when augering it, especially for ones such as kitchen or bathroom sinks where the pipe isn't full when its being cleared; in such instances I always run the entire cable out of my machine so as to prevent cleared material from finding and plugging at the next bottleneck where build-up may have accumulated. For a main sewer with standing water its very obvious when they clear as its both visible and even audible when there's standing water & nastiness that suddenly disappears. I don't know about condo bylaws, but I do know plumbing: at what point in the drain pipe dies the strata end if such a thing is even spelled out? If the blockage is in the p-trap that is obviously the occupants doing, but I had cleared a blockage within the last 2 years where the occupant in the suite above using their sink would back up into the occupant's kitchen sink below; that quite obviously was not the fault of the person below.

Its impossible to speculate where your back-up was sourced from without having been the fellow who cleared it.

I work in a few condo's and it rubs me the wrong way that we're not supposed to discuss much with the residents. Technically our client is the property manager, but they're still paid by condo fees, but if we pizz them off its no more work from them.... Residents can often either misconstrue what we say and go annoy the property manager, or understand what we say and go annoy the property manager. In buildings with certain reoccurring plumbing issues we have to either talk like politicians and redirect the question with technical gibberish or simply 'plead the 5th'.

Usually if I'm doing such work where the bill may or may not wind up going to the occupant I make the cause of the issue abundantly clear; either if the occupant was to blame or if it was just a base building issue, I detail it to ensure the bill goes to the party responsible. So many condo people lack the most basic understanding of common maintenance or building mechanics it makes me shake my head at their voluntary helplessness (general statement, not directed towards the OP)

A truer statement I have never heard. A lot of owners/residents treat the property manager like a concierge and feel like they can call anytime day or night and demand things. There are many items that are basic homeowner maintenance or responsibility.

I deal a lot with condo repairs and due to the nature of my work can afford to hand pick what Managers I will work with.
There are a few that I will deal with because they are honest and don't play games with me or the residents and the rest I cant be bothered with.

Erik PM me if you want. I may be able to help with some questions.
The reason I asked about Insurance is sometimes a corporation can write into their bylaws some pretty unreasonable responsibility's and insurance is the only way to deal with it. Legally they can place all the risk on the unit owners. I have seen this done once in a building that had a majority ownership by lawyers. They wrote their own bylaws and when 75% of owners approved they made all issues the owners to deal with. There are some loopholes that no one shares.

MAC

[Brian Bildson]

Your responsibility ends at the paint on your wall unless it can be proved the blockage was caused by your unit. However on a sink in a multi unit building that's difficult to prove. A toilet is a different matter.

We manage hundreds of condo units and that policy is pretty standard. Owners and tenants should all carry their own insurance for the unit however. A little trade secret for you. Condominium insurance will cover any damage to the common area or mechanical systems within units. At best the associations go after owners for the deductable if it can be proved they caused the damage.

For all you condo investors who run them as revenue properties make sure your tenants have tenants insurance or you can get stuck with their damage bill.