Mechanicals VS. Fixed - Page 2

russ · #31 03-13-2008, 10:55 PM

Okay, I gotta say something...

That 45 gallon drum test is a great idea...

When does the season open?

And if I'm lucky and find something $150 a gallon chem in it. Do I have to skin the drum first or can I resell the chem after the kill? Or Would handling the chem like that be re-selling "wildlife"?

Just some thoughts, oil barrels & phone books aren't tissue or bone so I don't think I'll be killing any more barrels anytime again. (yeah, I've done it!) The broadhead did GREAT but now the barrel leaks. Which is actually good, it gives the bears something to lick as the barrel leaks.

nekred · #32 03-14-2008, 08:54 AM

The 45 gallon drum!.... i will save you some cash!...

Tried in 1994

Wasp
innerloc
Muzzy's (The original style)
A one-pice no longer available
Spitfires,
Puckets...remember those... broadhead died on contact and arrow did not penetrate to other side of barrell!....
Thunderheads
RM Premiers

The only ones that survived were the T-Heads and Premieres!

I use T-heads and as they disappear I am replacing with Montec's... love the one piece idea... no blades to fart around with and easy to sharpen!...

russ · #33 03-14-2008, 09:19 AM

Nek, I think you missed the point of my post. I don't think shooting barrels or phone books is a valid test. However, I will agree with you regarding the Puckets.

nekred · #34 03-14-2008, 10:07 AM

WhatEver!.....

The premise is that if a broadhead will survive a barrel it will survive going through ribcage of animal, breaking rib In and Out....

It is a torture test.... like to make it harder than real life!.....

BlueNorther · #35 03-14-2008, 03:39 PM

I've used mech heads since I started bow hunting,only 8 years but my dozen kills with mechs hasn't convinced that they're bad BH's.Started out using Spitfires,2 bull moose and a white tail,then went to Grim Reapers for the balance of kills.None of those BH's failed to perform,and I've had none that broke apart.My last kill was a mule deer at 40 yards,it hit a rib full on at entry and clipped a rib on exit.It left a blood trail a blind man could follow.

huntinggr81 · #36 03-15-2008, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russ

Okay, I gotta say something...

That 45 gallon drum test is a great idea...

When does the season open?

And if I'm lucky and find something $150 a gallon chem in it. Do I have to skin the drum first or can I resell the chem after the kill? Or Would handling the chem like that be re-selling "wildlife"?

Just some thoughts, oil barrels & phone books aren't tissue or bone so I don't think I'll be killing any more barrels anytime again. (yeah, I've done it!) The broadhead did GREAT but now the barrel leaks. Which is actually good, it gives the bears something to lick as the barrel leaks.

The 45 gallon drum test is an excellent test for durability & strenght of a broadhead. These kind of tests show you how a broadhead will perform under the worst circumstances.

bobalong · #37 03-15-2008, 10:00 AM

I like the Wasp jackhammers. Although I have only shot 2 deer with them, penetration has been good, and all blades opened on both. I also like the large cutting area on them, important when bowhunting I think.

Stinky Coyote · #38 03-15-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeGuy

Stinky, I'm gonna have to cut you a fat cheque (it'll bounce

) for the amount of money you've saved me in experimentation. Perhaps you'll accept some fine spiced rum instead?

I do think that your reason #2 is valid. The 'churning' effect is quite relevent. Thanks for the info. I like my little Thunderheads. All I ask for out of my gear is CONSISTANCY! Thus I know what to expect. If I want unpredictable, I'll ask Mrs. Tree how her day was and what she is planning for tommorow!

Tree

Lol, don't get me wrong, i had fun trying new broadheads and couldn't wait to see what the results would be....i don't know what i was expecting but i always found the same thing regardless of broadhead i chose.....still was fun, expensive fun mind you.

I'm a montec fan myself too. Plus i shoot a pretty light arrow and i practice long so if i'm dealing with a big muley at 50-60 yrds (like two of my last three were) i want to make sure i've got a tough high penetration design....this is where cut on contact probably helps a bit too. They are pricy but worth it imo as with good arrows like the carbon express cx 300's i shoot i can buy a dozen of each and end up with 12 arrows that spin perfect...no aggravation and extra parts....and i like that.

Another good one myself and hunting partner like and use is the wasp boss bullet, they spin good, tough as shyt, sharp as shyt, and fly awesome also.....plus you get 6 to a pack for close to the same money you pay for 3 montecs......awesome value on those.

And can't knock the thunderhead although i've never used them, i know nap stuff comes sharper than anyone elses stuff and they have the best reputation out there for a broadhead! And affordable also.

Put the money you save into a fund for that 597 mag you want!

My only advice (which was handed down to me by many) is that if you shoot fixed blade heads then thats what you practice with....then there are no surprises. Not even sure i have a field tip anywhere now? Buy the practice blades or take a file to some existing heads to dull them down and thats what i shoot only. I have a broadhead target and a glendel full rut deer....neither one has seen a field tip. And getting closer to the season i keep the glendel deer and the bow in back of truck all the time so when i can pull them out and set the deer minimum 50 yrds away i can make sure my 1st shot is always good....once your there.....then there is no lack of confidence when its time to do it for real. Best practice going imo.

Canuck44 · #39 03-15-2008, 08:28 PM

So if fixed is agreed to be more reliable and no elastics or other issues why use a mechanical?

From my limited knowledge it seems the only real benefit in a hunting situation would be some increased speed due to better aerodynamics. Are their other benefits in a hunting situation?

How much faster is an arrow shot at 300fps going at 40 yrds with mechanicals compared to the average fixed?

huntinggr81 · #40 03-16-2008, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canuck44

So if fixed is agreed to be more reliable and no elastics or other issues why use a mechanical?

From my limited knowledge it seems the only real benefit in a hunting situation would be some increased speed due to better aerodynamics. Are their other benefits in a hunting situation?

How much faster is an arrow shot at 300fps going at 40 yrds with mechanicals compared to the average fixed?

The biggest reason to used mechanical vs fixed is flyability. Mechanicals fly (the ones I've tried) exactly like your field points - so you don't have do to any fine tuning to your arrows or your bow. Fixed blades however will require more tuning to get them to fly properly. Fixed blades are also less forgiving - that is if you torque your bow or punch your release the shot may be off more than a field point would be. This is from my own experience.

broadfieldpoint · #41 03-17-2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huntinggr81

The biggest reason to used mechanical vs fixed is flyability. Mechanicals fly (the ones I've tried) exactly like your field points - so you don't have do to any fine tuning to your arrows or your bow. Fixed blades however will require more tuning to get them to fly properly. Fixed blades are also less forgiving - that is if you torque your bow or punch your release the shot may be off more than a field point would be. This is from my own experience.

Sounds right.

Cordur · #42 03-17-2008, 06:54 PM

All you need are Magnus Snuffer SS broadheads. They passed the dishwasher test, the cinder block test and the "how far into the back stop do you think it went?" test. If I get the chance out at my buddies farm I'll try the engine block test. Haven't broken one yet and they fly the same as my field points. Lifetime Guarantee is pretty nifty too, I think if I do bag an engine block I'm going to send them the broad head with a picture.

7 REM MAG · #43 03-17-2008, 10:04 PM

magnus where did u find them and how much are they

Cordur · #44 03-17-2008, 10:33 PM

They're $34.99 at the archery center for a 3 pack. They were sold out almost as fast as they came in last season. Don't know if they have any more in yet but I have to pick up another pack for a friend of mine who's moved to Manitoba.

russ · #45 03-18-2008, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huntinggr81

The 45 gallon drum test is an excellent test for durability & strenght of a broadhead. These kind of tests show you how a broadhead will perform under the worst circumstances.

When I start shooting armour plated deer, I'll consider the test valid. There's nothing that hard on an animal to go through, and anything that is hard I better not be hitting anyway because if I do, it's a wounded animal.

catnthehat · #46 03-18-2008, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russ

When I start shooting armour plated deer, I'll consider the test valid. There's nothing that hard on an animal to go through, and anything that is hard I better not be hitting anyway because if I do, it's a wounded animal.

There are bony parts of critters that can be pretty tough sometimes.
You can't always count on a moose or deer to keep his leg foraward , for example.
I used Rotharr Snuufers for a bit about 10 years ago on the advice of kelly Peterson - super tough broadhead for sure.
went back to my two bladed Zwickeys in the end however....
Cat

russ · #47 03-18-2008, 06:21 AM

The shoulder blade isn't anywhere near the right spot to hit on a moose, elk, deer, bear or anything else I fling arrows @ in Alberta. If I hit that bone, I've shot hi & wide. Even when the leg is back the sweet spot is still open if I pinwheel the lungs.

catnthehat · #48 03-18-2008, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russ

The shoulder blade isn't anywhere near the right spot to hit on a moose, elk, deer, bear or anything else I fling arrows @ in Alberta. If I hit that bone, I've shot hi & wide. Even when the leg is back the sweet spot is still open if I pinwheel the lungs.

Like I said, stuff moves sometimes...
Cat

nekred · #49 03-18-2008, 08:56 AM

Russ you are missing the point (as usual)

Open your mind just a bit before you open your mouth!

The whole point is to test a broadhead on something like an animal only tougher.

Animal is tough on outside (ribs) and soft on inside.
Barrell is really tough on outside and soft on inside.

If broadhead survives barrel

ergo....it will survive on animal enough to do the job.

It is only to add confidence in my equipment. and I would rather find out a broadhead is poorly made before I hit an animal with it!

Besides I want to make sure my broadhead will work on your monster bionic mule deer over there that are too big for a 243!

russ · #50 03-18-2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekred

Open your mind just a bit before you open your mouth!

I've learned that "keep an open mind" is code speak for "I'm wrong because I don't share the same point of view"

Now, I can see why you "think" the barrel test is valid but if you honestly evaluated ALL of the factors you would realize that there isa serious problem with the barrel test. All broadheads MUST enter at the same angle, no exceptions. Think about it nekred, why is the armour slanted? Then you shoot broadheads at a round (ie. slanted) object and then proceed to pontificate about the validity of the test. Heaven forbid someone comes along and questions it's accuracy!

7 REM MAG · #51 03-18-2008, 10:09 AM

if your worried about that shoot the top or bottom while its sitting on its side

nekred · #52 03-18-2008, 11:46 AM

You have not proved itts invalidity so therefore you cannot reject my hypothesis so is accepted valid until proved otherwise...

here is the logic you are missing.

You want to test a broadhead to see if it works. You choose to do this before shooting at an animal.

You also want to shoot something tougher than an animal but approximate shape.

So a barrell.....

broadhead shape, and integrity is important to ensure it does the job required.

You shoot a broadhead through a barrel which is tougher than the animal and it retains shape and integrity. The other Brand X does not.

Now which broadhead has a higher probability of retaining its shape and integrity through an animal and.

Which one has the higher probability of losing its shape and integrity through an animal!....

russ · #53 03-18-2008, 12:10 PM

what you're saying if this was a test it isn't valid?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fid69BhCINs

Personally I think shooting a livestock carcass with the hide still on it would be far more valid than a steel skinned barrel.

u_cant_rope_the_wind · #54 03-18-2008, 12:19 PM

thunderheads are an awsome arrow head , ive used 100/125/and 85 grn and they all were awsome flew true and held up through tuff bone on elk and moose and never stoped on deer ive never used anything but a thunderhead if it works well dont fix it

nekred · #55 03-18-2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russ

what you're saying if this was a test it isn't valid?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fid69BhCINs

Personally I think shooting a livestock carcass with the hide still on it would be far more valid than a steel skinned barrel.

Fair enough.... just don't have one handy... and they stink if you keep it in the backard...

Also I believe in testing things harder then the use.....

I shoot at 60 yards and hunt at 40 for same reason.. same logic

Stinky Coyote · #56 03-19-2008, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russ

what you're saying if this was a test it isn't valid?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fid69BhCINs

Personally I think shooting a livestock carcass with the hide still on it would be far more valid than a steel skinned barrel.

for once i'm going to agree with you on something russ

rocket ultimate steels with the little bacon skinner blades don't do well on the barrel...i think all 3 blades get stripped but i shot a huge bodied whitetail deer quartering away at approx. 35 yrds at about 290 fps with a 360 gr total weight and had no problems, little broadhead went through the heart and drove deep into the brisket up front on opposite side....this was after friend had killed a few critters including a 250 lb plus hog with them no problems and the hog quartering away having arrows come out the front end....

so yeah...not a fan of the barrel test....just shows you what will better kill a barrel is all....

here's the big bodied one i shot with apparently the wimpiest of broadheads going...at least according to the barrel test

he went 60 yrds tops

archdlx · #57 03-20-2008, 12:10 AM

Isn't there quite a difference between live and dead animal testing.
I know when I managed a hog barn, I had the opertunity to shoot (rifle), many deads and quite a few sick, beyond redemption. Bullets from 308's and 22-250's rarely passed through the "live" ones, but at equal distance, (proped w/sawhorses and rope) every thing was through and through. These were all lung shots.....nothing that hit bone went through-except my 340 ROY!

archdlx.....for what it's worth

CNP · #58 03-20-2008, 09:34 AM

http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/TF/lw...901&CATEGORY=9

archdlx made me recall a thread on another forum. In 1999 a guy posts a thread about flinging arows into a dead cow and 9 years later it still gets replies. 901 replies and counting lol.....the last reply was posted on the 4th of Mar this year.

Stinky Coyote · #59 03-21-2008, 10:02 AM

maybe some encouraging news for you treeguy?...

just got the latest bowhunting world mag in the mail and chuck adams had an article about broadheads and arrows....

short story is he hates not seeing exits on his critters (full pass throughs) so he shoots at least 100-150 grains heavier than all the guys (including myself) shooting the light fast stuff closer to ibo, he even outright attacked all the bowhunting shows that showed pathetic penetration and animals running off with arrow sticking out of entrance side and recoveries happening late in night or animal already bloated because found next day that he said you can see if your paying attention etc...he said only way you shouldn't blow right through your target is quartering away and you stuff into the front shoulder stuff on opposite side and thats it...

anyhow, pretty sure he shot thunderheads for along time but he believes the cut on contact or very sharp slender point tips are best for broadheads, then went to to talk about mechanicals and the jackknife type how much energy they lose upon opening etc. and of course true arrow flight so all the energy is behind the broadhead driving forward and not being lost because the arrow is wobbling etc.................and i never thought i'd see it....

he said the type of mechanical where the blades push back, like the snyper or rage 2 blade he thinks are okay! (i did a double take)....in fact he shot his entire 2007 season with rage 2 blades expandables and blew through everything, all his trophies (lots in the book again as usual) including his big 6x8 bull elk at 50 yrds....complete pass through.....

so whaddayaknow....he isn't stuck in the past afterall

he actually tried something new and likes it....

he agreed with hill's theories about the best penetrating broadheads are cut on contact with a blade length 3 times longer than the diameter....so 1" diam broadhead would be 3" long tip to end of blade and that would be the deepest penetrating design you could have....obviously something to consider when hunting cape buffalo but we can get away with alot less on this continent

not a bad read.....wonder when he'll start shooting lighter arrows and blazer vanes and be converted once again?

so there ya go tree....if ole chucky endorses it then you know its all good....the snypers just annoyed me because i couldn't get them all to spin....but they are cut on contact and lose zero energy opening up....that would be the better option for expandable broadheads...maybe the rage broadheads spin better

the whitetail on my wall downstairs was shot with a snyper at 30 yrds, i hit a bit far back and got liver but he only went 40 yrds....so field performance was excellent...i'll email you a pic

later

russ · #60 03-21-2008, 10:24 AM

Stinky - you won't get snypers to spin, the darn blade on the point isn't centered on it's axis. I mulled over that very problem myself, but if you check carefully, you'll see that the tip blade can be off center quite a bit. I haven't tried it yet, but I think I'm going to pull the tip blades off next time and check them. The only thing that kept me from not shooting them when I first got them was the awesome penetration I got on my practice but. They were going through and killing the grainery behind while thunderheads, rocky premieres & wasps were stopping in the butt, no pass through. I was convinced then and there! Oddly, the snyper failed the steel barrel test - so like I've been saying all along - the test is only valid for hunting barrels.

Chucks right on the shoulder blade thing too, if the hit is in the shoulder on the entry side - it's a MAJOR miss. I've been digging through my photo's to find a good leg back shot with enough definition and I can't seem to locate one. What it comes down to is this, on a properly placed shot, the shoulder blade is NEVER in the way. EVER!