Compound Bows VS Crossbows

[pottymouth]

There needs to be a resolution to this problem, and keep the hunting community like Hecklar said " United ."

The resolution should leave everyone affected with their dignity and sense of victory, with a little sacrafise !

A 3rd season, whether at the begining, middle or end of the existing season, encompassing Muzzleloaders and Xbows would ultimately benifit all Albertans, and leave everyone happy and with new oppoturnity.

[DJS]

[QUOTE=ishootbambi;689840]
as for the op....i have hunted with both weapons. if you couldnt get it done with a vertical bow, i doubt you would have with a crossbow. from your story, i wonder how you planned to shoot him facing you?
QUOTE]


The buck was not facing me. He walked directly in front of me at 15 yards and was broadside. I couldn't draw because he was looking in my direction. With a cross bow I would have had a shot. Simple as that.

As far as the comment about what we would do if the amount of verticle bow hunters doubled in one year. Well, great! If there are that many people out there that would want to dedicate a great deal of time into this type of hunting, again, great!! The ABA could use alot more members! I don't think you will find any body who bowhunts opposed to that.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by Heckler

In the meantime, I am going to do my absolute best to enjoy the remainder of this archery season and maybe with a little luck I will finally get to bag that mule buck of my dreams.

i wish you the best of luck in that goal. i mean that. id like nothing better than to see you showing off a tremendous trophy in the next few weeks.

Originally Posted by ehntr

The truth is................I can kill pretty much 100% of the animals that come into view when I'm in my stand (point blank to 70 yards). Can't do that with a recurve, longbow or a compound.................especially the closer shots where you get busted all the time drawing your bow. Yes, I own a very good crossbow and recurves and longbows and compounds..........I know the truth.

sorry, point blank by definition is not possible. that crossbow hasnt been built. the raneg of a crossbow is nearly identical to a compound. both weapons are quite capable out to 70 yards, but most shooters are not. it can be done with a rangefinder and some practice...but under hunting conditions it is not a good idea for most people. i have a 70 pin on my reezen that i can hit in the blue 9 shots out of 10. i would not shoot at an animal that far though....too much can go wrong and a miss, or worse a poor hit is just too likely.

Originally Posted by pottymouth

To crossbow proponents, this out-of-the-box accuracy is an asset.


but the main advantage of a crossbow is that it doesn’t require the same amount of time and skill to get and maintain proficiency.”

yup....been stated already.

Originally Posted by pottymouth

That's wierd, I assumed that Kinetic Energy , was important ! According ISB, i guess it's not .

My buddy who shoots a 92 lbs bow with a 32 inch draw length, that can bust through shoulders of big game , can do it because????..............of his KE!!! I guess everyone can do the same with 60 lbs bow and an average DL like 28 ?????

I guess rifle guys shooting out at 500 + don't care about there KE either

obviously you never took physics in high school huh? KE is largely irrelevant in archery simply because the energy transfer of an arrow means little to how it kills. the force you are talking about here is largely momentum. now as much as momentum can affect penetration, you arent suggesting that shooting shoulder blades is the optimal target i hope. also realize that a bow with a meagre 40 pound draw weight has ample force to pass through a big game animal completely, so yes, KE is really a fairly unimportant number in terms of archery hunting.

and if you think that energy is the ultimate goal of guys shooting rifles at 500 yards, you should look up the thread here regarding that topic. i know you think that rifle hunters are just a bunch of hillbillies, but you could learn some things from them. energy is nothing more than a delivery tool for the bullet. the bullet destroys tissues and its the resulting hole that does the killing. yes, energy is neccessary to make the hole, but energy does not kill.

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Problem solved with reticle scopes !!!

One of my biggest concerns is, how many people don't anything about Xbows, and believe that they can kill out to 100 yards effortlessly, the truth will be known when the wounding rate increases expodentially( unfortunatly I can accurately assume the majority of those doing this will be rifle hunters believing the myths) !!! But I guess it's better to have the game suffer than the hunters that refuse to use archery tackle , until the generall populas is educated !

i havent seen a reticle scope yet that is accurate to what they say they are. from what ive seen, a pin sight is far superior. i havent seen every reticle scope out there and maybe some work right, but i havent seen it.

as for the rest of this post.....sadly i agree. there are a lot of people out there who think a crossbow is the most deadly killing contraption ever created, and there no doubt will be some silly buggers who do things that shouldnt be done. some guys think the weapon is a precision tool out to 100 yards and will try to shoot that far and yes there is gonna be some wounded animals. i can only hope the learning curve is short and the guys who are currently unwilling or unable to make it happen with a vertical bow who are going to try the crossbow get frustrated and give up before they do too much damage. id love to think that everyone who will try this new opportunity will be 100% educated , proficient and ethical in their choices, but i doubt that will be the case.

[packhuntr]

Boy, its just a darned good thing Dale is around to clear these things up... Talk is cheap...

Pretty sad, archers and bow hunters being slandered, segregated off from peers, pummeled with accusations of greed, and sought for extirpation.

[wilburhunter]

ishootbambi,

I have read all of the crossbow threads on this forum and it always amazes me how the pro crossbow hunters always refuse to acknowledge the most basic fundamental difference:

Draw in the presence of game.

Pottymouth gave a great example with antelope hunting. Which you just glossed over. Another example. I was out with my boy last week and with a crossbow he could have easily shot 2 elk. As it was they both bolted at less than 20 yards when he tried to draw his bow. If he had a crossbow he could have been lying in a prone position and I am fully convinced he could have easily shot either one of them. I have nothing against using a crossbow in the proper season be it the general firearm season or create, as has been suggested, another primitive weapon season. It would even be reasonable to give up part of the archery season to create this, but please at least admit that there is a fundamental difference between crossbows and any other archery equipment.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by wilburhunter

ishootbambi,

I have read all of the crossbow threads on this forum and it always amazes me how the pro crossbow hunters always refuse to acknowledge the most basic fundamental difference:

Draw in the presence of game.

Pottymouth gave a great example with antelope hunting. Which you just glossed over. Another example. I was out with my boy last week and with a crossbow he could have easily shot 2 elk. As it was they both bolted at less than 20 yards when he tried to draw his bow. If he had a crossbow he could have been lying in a prone position and I am fully convinced he could have easily shot either one of them. I have nothing against using a crossbow in the proper season be it the general firearm season or create, as has been suggested, another primitive weapon season. It would even be reasonable to give up part of the archery season to create this, but please at least admit that there is a fundamental difference between crossbows and any other archery equipment.

the fundamental difference is that they are easier to learn with less practice time. if you could lay prone in the exact right position and have an animal walk exactly where you are aiming, then yes there could be times where a shot is presented. the problem is that animals seldom are that cooperative and movement is almost always required to aim the weapon. it sounds as though you are experienced with archery gear, so im sure you know that so much as a shift of your body weight will draw attention to yourself 9 times out of 10 when an animal is in reasonable archery range....like the less than 20 yards you just described. it amazes me that people think you dont have to move to aim a crossbow???

for heaven sake, if they are so much more efficient, then why are success rates nearly identical to vertical archery rates in over 30 other states and provinces? someone please give a reasonable explanation for it.

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Boy, its just a darned good thing Dale is around to clear these things up... Talk is cheap...

Pretty sad, archers and bow hunters being slandered, segregated off from peers, pummeled with accusations of greed, and sought for extirpation.

yet another post with no point to be made. at least you used spell check on this one. you kinda dodged the question.....how is the goat hunt going? tomorrow is the last day for archery isnt it? if you havent gotten one yet, i could offer you a tip on where a good one was yesterday.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

for heaven sake, if they are so much more efficient, then why are success rates nearly identical to vertical archery rates in over 30 other states and provinces? someone please give a reasonable explanation for it.


.

says TenPoint’s Robb. We give them a tool that, with a minimal amount of practice, allows them to participate and be successful. They still have to locate game and stalk within range, but the main advantage of a crossbow is that it doesn’t require the same amount of time and skill to get and maintain proficiency.”

Basically again, cause the average guy can pick up Xbow and be successful, where the average Bowhunter spends ends time practicing form and his shooting like a golfer !

I would also like to see the amount of time a bowhunter spent in the field vs a xbow hunter on those stats. I would venture to say that the xbow hunter spent alot less time !!!

P.s I took Aeronautical engineering in school , so my physics is great !!!

just curious isb, what do you shoot for a bow and arrows? and what was the last animal you shot with one?

[wilburhunter]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

it amazes me that people think you dont have to move to aim a crossbow???

for heaven sake, if they are so much more efficient, then why are success rates nearly identical to vertical archery rates in over 30 other states and provinces? someone please give a reasonable explanation for it.

I can tell you that the two chances we had at close range with a crossbow we would have had a significantly better chance. Could have been prone lying behind a log or some other setup that is not possible with vertical archery. The amount of movement is significantly less with a crossbow. Now not all situations would be like the ones we experienced in fact the majority of situations it would not have made a difference crossbow or my compound but all of these situations were with the compound bow and the setup that was required for it. With a crossbow these setups could have been different and quite possibly had different results.

Here is another example. You belly crawl within range of a animal say 30 yards. The animal is in range and its vitals are visible. A crossbow you lay there and shoot. A vertical bow you need to at the very least get to you knees or on your butt to shoot. See the difference?

I will fully admit that I am selfish by the way. I took up bowhunting for a very selfish reason. I enjoy the challenge of bow hunting but more importantly I enjoy the low hunter numbers during bow season. I can tell you the area I hunt turns into a war zone during rifle season. I definitely do not do it for the tags as I usually don't buy any that I can't also use during rifle season. I am cheap and hate to waste money. Even though I usually waste my elk tag. If crossbows become legal in archery season so be it. It will just be a little tougher to find my little piece of solitude. I may already have to as I have already seen 2 bow hunters this year in the zone I hunt elk. This is a jump of 200 percent over the last 5 years.

[ghglenn]

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/cros...l-article.html

[Huntwriter]

Interesting thread and as usual for crossbow v. "archery" discussions it's full of misinformation and assumptions about crossbows. I am an a bowhunter and shoot traditional bows, compound bows and crossbows, to me its all archery. I also have written two columns about the subject that can be read here and here.

It amazes me that in a time when hunter numbers are in sharp decline that there are still hunters and hunting organizations, especially archery organizations, that want to prevent others from hunting based on nothing more than myth and agenda. As the baby-boomer generation grow older we will see more crossbows and if a crossbow is the ticket to bring a new hunter into our ranks then more power to it.

I am old enough to remember that the same myth and misinformation and "Unfair advantage" cries were circulated when the first compound bows came on the market 30 years ago. The P&Y Club at the time, as they do now with crossbows, stated that compound bows are an unethical weapon and therefore trophy's taken with such a bow would not be accepted to be entered into the record book. How times have changed, and they will again in favour of the crossbow. In 10 years from now the crossbow will be as common a sight in the deer woods as the compound today.

[Huntwriter]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

says TenPoint’s Robb. We give them a tool that, with a minimal amount of practice, allows them to participate and be successful. They still have to locate game and stalk within range, but the main advantage of a crossbow is that it doesn’t require the same amount of time and skill to get and maintain proficiency.”

Basically again, cause the average guy can pick up Xbow and be successful, where the average Bowhunter spends ends time practicing form and his shooting like a golfer !

Since when is hunting success or the value of the experience measured on the degree of difficulty it takes to become proficient with your weapon of choice.

I would also like to see the amount of time a bowhunter spent in the field vs a xbow hunter on those stats. I would venture to say that the xbow hunter spent alot less time !!!

Sorry but this comment is just plain hogwash. What has the choice of weapon to do with how much time a hunter spends in the fields. A bowhunter using a crossbow still needs to scout and he still needs to get close to the game as any other bowhunter.

[AbAngler]

Originally Posted by Huntwriter

It amazes me that in a time when hunter numbers are in sharp decline that there are still hunters and hunting organizations, especially archery organizations, that want to prevent others from hunting based on nothing more than myth and agenda. As the baby-boomer generation grow older we will see more crossbows and if a crossbow is the ticket to bring a new hunter into our ranks then more power to it.

Thank you for mentioning this. I stressed this point in the stickied thread in the hunting forum. The ABA is very skilled at fear mongering. Too bad for them that they are about to lose their pointless battle.

[Heckler]

Originally Posted by Huntwriter

Since when is hunting success or the value of the experience measured on the degree of difficulty it takes to become proficient with your weapon of choice.

I don't see where the poster said the value of the experience is based on the degree of difficulty it takes to become proficient with your weapon of choice - he was simply stating the fact that the learning curve to become proficient with a crossbow is much less than that of a compound or traditional bow. Simply information, it is what it is.

Originally Posted by Huntwriter

Sorry but this comment is just plain hogwash. What has the choice of weapon to do with how much time a hunter spends in the fields. A bowhunter using a crossbow still needs to scout and he still needs to get close to the game as any other bowhunter.

Again, I believe that what the poster was alluding to is the fact that bowhunters typically spend quite a lot of time afield in order to be successful, and that quite possibly with the advantages given to the crossbow shooter that the time spent afield may be much less. Yes you would still have to scout, and yes you would still have to get close to game, but the fact remains that with a crossbow the shooter doesn't need to draw. This is a distinct advantage over archery equipment. When shot opportunities are presented and there is less chance of spooking game and ruining the shot opportunity, it only stands to reason that success rates may be higher. Being more successful more of the time means less time in the field. Fairly simple logic.

I took the time to read both of your articles, thanks for posting the link. I think its fair to say they are both heavily biased in favor of crossbows being recognized as archery equipment and being allowed during archery only seasons. I acknowledge your position - my position is that due to the fact that the crossbow does not require the use of muscular power to draw back the string in the moments before the shot is taken, it is not archery equipment. Yes there are similarities, and I acknowledge that there are - but this is a huge difference that just cannot be ignored. It was barely mentioned in your writing, but to hardcore bowhunters this is a fundamental difference, and it is constantly being skimmed over or skirted by crossbow proponents.

I am certainly no crossbow expert, and have never shot or owned one, but to me is a fundamental difference and also a distinct advantage. Also, I really don't see the truth in what you are saying about archery organizations wanting to limit or prevent others from hunting based on myth and agenda, as you put it. I believe that the ABA has a right to say what they are saying about this issue in Alberta, and they are not doing so based on "myth and agenda." They are doing so because they are the voice for Alberta bowhunters, and have been for many years. They are the reason we Albertans have such vast opportunities for bowhunters, and they don't want to see all that hard work and opportunities that have been created by the ABA and its members squandered and go to waste because of this crossbow issue. Its not the bowhunters that want this change - at least the vast majority of them, including myself.

I see newcomers to archery practically each time I am at one of the local shops shooting or shopping. There are always newbies purchasing new archery equipment and getting into bowhunting. Allowing crossbows in the archery season is not what is needed to increase hunter numbers - what we need is education and mentoring. We need guys like us that love hunting and want to see it thrive talking to others about our experiences, inviting new hunters out, and helping them get involved. That is what is needed.

[RiverRat]

I am new to the sport and reading this thread really makes me think wow.I have been trying some compound bows out,trying to find the perfect fit for me. But i screwed my shoulder up pretty bad playing footall when i was younger, so I have a hard time slinging 10 to 15 arrows at a practice. Then i go home and ice the crap out of my shoulder so i can try and go again the next day.A couple of weeks ago my buddies dad let me try his crossbow out and i found i could shoot that thing almost double in what i could do with a reg bow. This is what makes me feel inadequate or usless I am only 35 years old and new to the sport. I do feel with time i could become alot better with a compound but at what cost? My long winded point is when you read threads like this and you are new to the sport it makes you feel like crap to even want to try a crossbow!!!! With everyone being so divided about this I feel could really turn some new people of this sport period!!!

just my two cents, any advice for a confused newbie would be great?

[Heckler]

Originally Posted by AbAngler

Thank you for mentioning this. I stressed this point in the stickied thread in the hunting forum. The ABA is very skilled at fear mongering. Too bad for them that they are about to lose their pointless battle.

Fear mongering? Honestly. So because the ABA disagrees with the crossbow proponents point of view on this issue, they are now "fear mongering"? Give me a break. So lets completely alienate and vilify the ABA and all Alberta bowhunters who agree with them on this issue so we can get what we want. Brilliant.

I think if you were to actually speak with some bowhunters about this issue, or better yet speak with the ABA president for example, you would find out differently.

I am not against crossbows - I am just against them being allowed full on for the entire archery only season. There needs to be a resolution to this issue that can benefit all parties involved, and where all parties compromise a little to come to an agreement. Right now all I see happening is bowhunters are the only ones having to make any sacrifices. The current situation is not one in which all sides benefit. Why could there not be a scenario like what Pottymouth suggested earlier on? That in my mind would be a good solution for everybody involved, and would not alienate any one group.

Right now though, I feel that the voice of Alberta bowhunters has been marginalized, and we are being alienated for disagreeing. DISAGREEMENT DOES NOT EQUAL REJECTION!

With comments being thrown around like the one above though, its no wonder that this issue has become so heated. As I mentioned earlier on, how can we expect to win on the big issues when we can't even get along amongst ourselves? What is the future going to look like for all of us if these divisive attitudes persist?

[RiverRat]

As I mentioned earlier on, how can we expect to win on the big issues when we can't even get along amongst ourselves? What is the future going to look like for all of us if these divisive attitudes persist?

Hekler "Bingo" You nailed it with that comment!

[ghglenn]

Perhaps bow hunters were given too much in the first place? Maybe you should consider the lack of opportunity a crossbow user has to contend with. Ever stock a deer and have a volley of rifle rounds go off in the distance to scare your deer away? Do you hunt with your bow during rifle season? Not many bow guys do. Wouldn't make much sense. The type of hunting being done during rifle season, does not, in any way compare to that done during bow season. If they can't resolve this and include all users equally, perhaps bow season should just go away, and make one general season for all.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Huntwriter

Since when is hunting success or the value of the experience measured on the degree of difficulty it takes to become proficient with your weapon of choice.



Sorry but this comment is just plain hogwash. What has the choice of weapon to do with how much time a hunter spends in the fields. A bowhunter using a crossbow still needs to scout and he still needs to get close to the game as any other bowhunter.

Please read the whole thread, not just one " Quote " from Robb at Tenpoint Crossbows, and his best reason for the Pro's of Xbows !Then you will realize I agreed that the xbow has a very short learning curve !!

Beacuse of the fact that most rifle hunters will turn to the xbow , the learning curve to shoot them will be fast, but the learning curve of understanding that they are not shooting a gun ( which yes, most people believe that this xbreeds, function is more gun that bow ) will be painfully slow.Let me explain !!The assumption will be that the bolt might react more like a bullet. Having mentors in archery shops, and fellow archers drill into our heads about the way the arrow works, and shots that not be taken, and yes some by trail and error, most bowhunters have a complete understanding of their equipement. How many head on and neck shots and even long distance shots will be delivered by newbie's with Xbows??? The average rifle hunter like my father in law will buy an xbow to lengthen his season and assume that it reacts like his gun, and the vendor will do nothing to educate people like my father in law. All this will come to the expense of wildlife and land owners dealing with the huge influx of people !

I don't believe the average new Xbow shooter ( like my father in law) will come close to spending the time to learn, apperciate and understand something like Archery and Xbows .


p.s Huntwriter Great Self Promotion !!! There's and advertising section here you can pay for on here !!!

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Please read the whole thread, not just one " Quote " from Robb at Tenpoint Crossbows, and his best reason for the Pro's of Xbows !Then you will realize I agreed that the xbow has a very short learning curve !!

Beacuse of the fact that most rifle hunters will turn to the xbow , the learning curve to shoot them will be fast, but the learning curve of understanding that they are not shooting a gun ( which yes, most people believe that this xbreeds, function is more gun that bow ) will be painfully slow.Let me explain !!The assumption will be that the bolt might react more like a bullet. Having mentors in archery shops, and fellow archers drill into our heads about the way the arrow works, and shots that not be taken, and yes some by trail and error, most bowhunters have a complete understanding of their equipement. How many head on and neck shots and even long distance shots will be delivered by newbie's with Xbows??? The average rifle hunter like my father in law will buy an xbow to lengthen his season and assume that it reacts like his gun, and the vendor will do nothing to educate people like my father in law. All this will come to the expense of wildlife and land owners dealing with the huge influx of people !

I don't believe the average new Xbow shooter ( like my father in law) will come close to spending the time to learn, apperciate and understand something like Archery and Xbows .


p.s Huntwriter Great Self Promotion !!! There's and advertising section here you can pay for on here !!!

You Remind me of a Guy that I know named Bry Loyd.He only archery hunts with recurve and long bows with no sights.This guy has shot a few B&C Deer.

He figures that archers who shoot compound bows with sights and use Trigger releases Avoid the "Learning curve" when it comes to hunting with a bow.

You talk about crossbows the same as he talks to me about guys like you useing compound bows.

It's actually quite comical considering that your both Hardcore archery only hunter's

[Huntwriter]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

p.s Huntwriter Great Self Promotion !!! There's and advertising section here you can pay for on here !!!

What self promotion ???

[Huntwriter]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Please read the whole thread, not just one " Quote " from Robb at Tenpoint Crossbows, and his best reason for the Pro's of Xbows !Then you will realize I agreed that the xbow has a very short learning curve !!

Beacuse of the fact that most rifle hunters will turn to the xbow , the learning curve to shoot them will be fast, but the learning curve of understanding that they are not shooting a gun ( which yes, most people believe that this xbreeds, function is more gun that bow ) will be painfully slow.Let me explain !!The assumption will be that the bolt might react more like a bullet. Having mentors in archery shops, and fellow archers drill into our heads about the way the arrow works, and shots that not be taken, and yes some by trail and error, most bowhunters have a complete understanding of their equipement. How many head on and neck shots and even long distance shots will be delivered by newbie's with Xbows??? The average rifle hunter like my father in law will buy an xbow to lengthen his season and assume that it reacts like his gun, and the vendor will do nothing to educate people like my father in law. All this will come to the expense of wildlife and land owners dealing with the huge influx of people !

I don't believe the average new Xbow shooter ( like my father in law) will come close to spending the time to learn, apperciate and understand something like Archery and Xbows .

You seem to have very little faith in other hunters. One of the most common assumed problems anti-crossbow members mention is the one you outlined above. Rifle hunters will take to crossbow hunting and treat it like a gun. Hogwash.

I've got news for you, everywhere, including here in BC, where crossbows have been included in the regular archery season there has been NO Noticeable difference in the behaviour of crossbow hunters and other bow hunters. All the fears about crossbows and what impact they might have on other archers, wildlife and "quality of the hunt" whatever the heck that means are pure myth. On the other hand it is no myth that many hunters and newcomers to the sport will choose a crossbow as entry level weapon, and that in turn makes me very happy. Because for our sport to have a future we need an awful lot more hunters then we have now.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

just curious isb, what do you shoot for a bow and arrows? and what was the last animal you shot with one?

you have seen the pics of it. my bow is a mathews reezen set at 68 pounds draw, 29 inch draw length. i use a QAD ultimate rest and a 6 pin sword accusite. it has a light, but its pretty useless. my hunting setup has ics arrows tipped with rockets, and lumenocks on the other end. this year i am trying out them shrink wrap fletch things from NAP in an effort to see my arrow better. the last thing i killed with it was a gopher.....you've seen that too....remember you asked why i was shooting aluminium?




hmmm. i guess i deleted the pic of the gopher, but i suspect what you really want to know is what big game have i killed. my best is this mule deer that i took back in 90 or 91...im not sure. i took it with an old bear polar that i actually still have. i was told then that it netted 180 and a bit and at the time was number 3 in alberta by bow. i have scored it since and im only getting 176 net. today i doubt it would even be top 20 any more. it doesnt matter to me.....just another deer that could be in a book that i have never bothered with.




came close to killing one tonight as well. i figure about a 165ish mule buck. snuck in to 28 yards. i was in good shape until the wind swirled and he caught a whiff. when he stood up he was facing me. i drew slowly and waited for him to turn. after staring a hole through me for about a minute and a half, he turned and bolted. i considered a frontal shot, but there is just too much that can go wrong. i know it can work, but i chose not to. my wife was right beside me for the entire stalk and thought that was just about the coolest thing she ever saw.

[Heckler]

Originally Posted by ghglenn

Perhaps bow hunters were given too much in the first place? Maybe you should consider the lack of opportunity a crossbow user has to contend with. Ever stock a deer and have a volley of rifle rounds go off in the distance to scare your deer away? Do you hunt with your bow during rifle season? Not many bow guys do. Wouldn't make much sense. The type of hunting being done during rifle season, does not, in any way compare to that done during bow season. If they can't resolve this and include all users equally, perhaps bow season should just go away, and make one general season for all.

Bowhunters in this province weren't "given" anything. It is because of the hard work that the ABA has done that bowhunters have the opportunities we do in this province - if you are not familiar with what they have done over the years, when you have a moment check our their website and see for yourself. You might be surprised at what you find.

I do understand what you mean though about being limited to general season and having to share that time with rifle hunters, I can totally relate to that. I have bowhunted during general season, quite a bit actually - and yes for hunters who may be limited to hunting on public land I can see how this would be frustrating. Now put yourself into the ABA's shoes on this and perhaps you can see where bowhunters are coming from too. Alberta has great opportunities for bowhunters, and this didn't happen overnight. This took years and years of hard work, and some of the advancements have not just benefited bowhunters but all hunters. Its like taking years to build a dream home, and then waking one morning to find a mob outside your front door that takes the keys and says thanks for all the work you did, we'll take over from here. There has been no respect for bowhunters or for the the ABA and their stance on this issue, and I feel that this is where a lot of the animosity is stemming from. There needs to be some professionalism and level heads on both sides to make this work for everyone, and it shouldn't be all up to the ABA and bowhunters to make all the concessions here.

But getting rid of archery season altogether and making one big general season? I think that statement is just a bit over the top - surely we can come to a solution that can benefit all involved.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

p.s Huntwriter Great Self Promotion !!! There's and advertising section here you can pay for on here !!!

...........says the guy with the giant logo at the bottom of every post.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

...........says the guy with the giant logo at the bottom of every post.

LOL, I don't own the company or write for them !!
if I was self promoting I'd have one of my company logo's done there

thx for answering the bow question, I guess you pick up your bow almost as much as I pick up my rifle

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Huntwriter

You seem to have very little faith in other hunters. One of the most common assumed problems anti-crossbow members mention is the one you outlined above. Rifle hunters will take to crossbow hunting and treat it like a gun. Hogwash.
.

Guess what Hogwash !!! I grew up around hunting, killed my first animal with a bow at 4 years old. The first time I picked up a Cross bow (21ish) guess what I thought " gun, must shoot like a gun. " Guess what everyone around me thought....Same Hogwash, and they were alot older and expirenced. It took a couple of years for me to begin to somewhat understand them, only until the last 3-4 years do really understand them !!!!!!

So what does that mean, I'm a die hard hunter .I spend almost 300 days in the field or shops ! and what was my impression?What about the average guy ,is my question??? Those huge myths your trying to debunk are out there for a reason and a vast majority believe them.Kinda Like the same land owners or people that can't believe a bow can kill a deer , especially with one shot???

Do I have faith in people......NO I don't.... Without mentors and responsible shop owners and some great expienced people on sites like this, to help Newbie's I have 0 faith. Alot of die hards spend there time reading sites like this, but that's only 17,000 people, and some don't even care about hunting or bow and Xbows, what about the rest of the 105,000?? do you think they fall in the educated or not catergory?

[Huntwriter]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Guess what Hogwash !!! I grew up around hunting, killed my first animal with a bow at 4 years old. The first time I picked up a Cross bow (21ish) guess what I thought " gun, must shoot like a gun. " Guess what everyone around me thought....Same Hogwash, and they were alot older and expirenced. It took a couple of years for me to begin to somewhat understand them, only until the last 3-4 years do really understand them !!!!!!

Well then you and those around you must be different people. As a hunter education instructor, seminar speaker and hunting course mentor working all over North America, - I hope you do not view that as self-promotion - I've never ever encountered that rifle hunters, or any hunter for that matter, treated or viewed a crossbow as some sort of rifle.

Just because it took you 3-4 years to understand crossbows does not mean it applies to others too. This would be the same as me saying I could shoot proficiently a compound bow within a week of purchasing one. Everybody should be able to achieve that. It doesn't work that way.

So what does that mean, I'm a die hard hunter .I spend almost 300 days in the field or shops ! and what was my impression?What about the average guy ,is my question???

I don't get what you try to get at with this. To me a "die-hard" hunter means nothing other that he/she spends a lot of time in the woods or is otherwise preoccupied with hunting related activities . Some think they are die-hard hunters because they purchase every week the latest hunting gadgets. "Die-Hard" does not make him/her superior to the average hunter. If that is what you try to suggest.

Those huge myths your trying to debunk are out there for a reason and a vast majority believe them.Kinda Like the same land owners or people that can't believe a bow can kill a deer , especially with one shot???

I' am not trying to debunk the myths they ARE ALREADY Debunked. Why do people still believe them? The people that believe the crossbow myths become fewer and fewer, but there always will be gullible people that believe propaganda more than commonsense and personal experience. It's the same with people that believe Muslims are bad people because they have been told so, heck there are even people who think the Jews are bad too. It all boils down to ignorance.

Do I have faith in people......NO I don't....

I pity you.

Without mentors and responsible shop owners and some great expienced people on sites like this, to help Newbie's I have 0 faith. Alot of die hards spend there time reading sites like this, but that's only 17,000 people, and some don't even care about hunting or bow and Xbows, what about the rest of the 105,000?? do you think they fall in the educated or not catergory?

You seem to have a thing about "die-hard" hunters. Is that some sort of honor badge for you? I am a professional in the hunting industry working as a outdoor writer, seminar speaker and hunting strategy consultant among other things. I am also a licensed and registered BC Hunter Education Instructor yet I never would describe myself as "die-hard" or "better" hunter although I spend all year long every single day up to 15 hours per day doing something that is directly related to hunting or promoting and getting new hunters into our ranks.

I view myself as a very fortunate person able to share my expertise with others through writing and speaking in the hope that others may profit from it. I am even more fortunate that I am able to promote hunting, in all its forms and by any legal means, as a wholesome sport to many young and new people. But all of this makes me just a hunter, not a "super hunter" or a "Die-Hard" hunter.

You ask me what I think of the rest of 105,000 in what category they fall. How much time you spend on the Internet on hunting forums such as this one is certainly no indicator of education level. I know a lot of dedicated hunters that are very active in their hunting communities and that I consider very good and successful hunters. Most of them have never visited any online forum. So to answer your question, or what I think you're getting at. I believe that by and large hunters are smart and well educated, and respectable people. That there are a few slobs out and about is unfortunate but I can live with that. Slobs are present in every aspect of life not only hunting, I rather live with slobs then with a government and people wanting to eradicate slobs. I lived in Russia in the 70's and had first hand experience of a state wanting perfect people all the time. No thanks I rather live with imperfections and free.

[Heckler]

Huntwriter, it seems like you are very involved in hunting and the promotion of it, and are obviously experienced. I think that is fantastic.

That being said, I have to say I experience that last response of yours as quite arrogant.

Just because there are those of us who don't write articles or conduct seminars, that doesn't mean those individuals are not experienced, or have nothing to offer the hunting community, or aren't involved in mentoring new hunters and otherwise promoting hunting. I think you are being a bit ignorant in assuming that only individuals with your resume can weigh in on topics such as this.

Those of us who love hunting and want to see it thrive well into the future are a passionate bunch no doubt, and there are going to be varying opinions on topics such as this. But again, disagreement does not equal rejection. If we are going to have any chance to keep our hunting heritage strong well into the future, we all need to stop judging one another and recognize that each of us has something to offer. We are not always going to be each others "cup of tea" so to speak, and if we are gonna move the ball forward we all have to start working as a team and respect one another.

[Huntwriter]

Originally Posted by Heckler

Just because there are those of us who don't write articles or conduct seminars, that doesn't mean those individuals are not experienced, or have nothing to offer the hunting community, or aren't involved in mentoring new hunters and otherwise promoting hunting. I think you are being a bit ignorant in assuming that only individuals with your resume can weigh in on topics such as this.

I am sorry if you get the impression that I am arrogant or ignorant, because I am not. The only reason I mentioned what I do is because of that "die-hard-hunter" business. I just don't get it and I don't get why a so called "die-hard-hunter" should be any better than the average hunter what experience and education is concerned.

I always encounter "average" hunters that make very valuable contributions to discussions and the hunting community. In fact what made me an "expert" is listening to average and experienced hunters alike with an open mind and the willingness to learn new things, but above all to respect others for whatever choice of hunting method they employ rather than ridicule them based myth and agenda. There are many things I do not like but I would be damned to ridicule others, as often happens, especially in regard to crossbow hunting.

In my personal opinion it borders on the ridiculous how much time, effort and energy we as hunters spend to find fault in others and what differs each segment of hunters from others. It borders on lunacy how many hunters ride agenda driven bandwagons. It takes much less effort, time and energy - and it is much more desirable for the preservation of the hunting sport - to figure out what we ALL have in common.

With that said I apologize if my message came across as ignorant or insulting. As I said above I am first and foremost a hunter, everything else, such as the choice of weapon is of no consideration to me. We're ALL hunters and it would be wise to understand that we ALL need to stick together, because only together we will have a faint chance of overcoming the massive problems our sport currently faces.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Huntwriter

Well then you and those around you must be different people. As a hunter education instructor, seminar speaker and hunting course mentor working all over North America, - I hope you do not view that as self-promotion - I've never ever encountered that rifle hunters, or any hunter for that matter, treated or viewed a crossbow as some sort of rifle.

Just because it took you 3-4 years to understand crossbows does not mean it applies to others too. This would be the same as me saying I could shoot proficiently a compound bow within a week of purchasing one. Everybody should be able to achieve that. It doesn't work that way.



I don't get what you try to get at with this. To me a "die-hard" hunter means nothing other that he/she spends a lot of time in the woods or is otherwise preoccupied with hunting related activities . Some think they are die-hard hunters because they purchase every week the latest hunting gadgets. "Die-Hard" does not make him/her superior to the average hunter. If that is what you try to suggest.


I' am not trying to debunk the myths they ARE ALREADY Debunked. Why do people still believe them? The people that believe the crossbow myths become fewer and fewer, but there always will be gullible people that believe propaganda more than commonsense and personal experience. It's the same with people that believe Muslims are bad people because they have been told so, heck there are even people who think the Jews are bad too. It all boils down to ignorance.


I pity you.



You seem to have a thing about "die-hard" hunters. Is that some sort of honor badge for you? I am a professional in the hunting industry working as a outdoor writer, seminar speaker and hunting strategy consultant among other things. I am also a licensed and registered BC Hunter Education Instructor yet I never would describe myself as "die-hard" or "better" hunter although I spend all year long every single day up to 15 hours per day doing something that is directly related to hunting or promoting and getting new hunters into our ranks.

I view myself as a very fortunate person able to share my expertise with others through writing and speaking in the hope that others may profit from it. I am even more fortunate that I am able to promote hunting, in all its forms and by any legal means, as a wholesome sport to many young and new people. But all of this makes me just a hunter, not a "super hunter" or a "Die-Hard" hunter.

You ask me what I think of the rest of 105,000 in what category they fall. How much time you spend on the Internet on hunting forums such as this one is certainly no indicator of education level. I know a lot of dedicated hunters that are very active in their hunting communities and that I consider very good and successful hunters. Most of them have never visited any online forum. So to answer your question, or what I think you're getting at. I believe that by and large hunters are smart and well educated, and respectable people. That there are a few slobs out and about is unfortunate but I can live with that. Slobs are present in every aspect of life not only hunting, I rather live with slobs then with a government and people wanting to eradicate slobs. I lived in Russia in the 70's and had first hand experience of a state wanting perfect people all the time. No thanks I rather live with imperfections and free.

All I see is look at me, look at what I am.....but yet you act very unprofessional for a professional.

My definition of diehard, means I like to do anything that involves hunting and the outdoors.....NOWHERE did i say I'm better than anyone, your the only struting peacock around here, I haven't used the I Am This sentence like you !!! ! I'm also a diehard sports fan, but I don't play all the sports I watch, and I'm not the only one here , most of us are here....

Hunters are smart people, but a majority of people here in Alberta haven't been exposed to crossbows, so debunking the myths will take awhile, even though you say they've been debunked, but the contridict yourself by saying things like " that one of the most common assumed problems....etc " Until you pick up and shoot a Xbow that when people begin to understand what they hear may not be true. Most people around here haven't had the exposure yet, not like B.C.

And what's a slob hunter by the way????

Why is it the generation on their way out , believe they know whats best for the generations that will have to deal with their decisions If you want a real answer talk to the general public ask them what they think about Xbows, stand at the door of Bps and randomly ask men and women the simple question.... Do you believe a crossbow is more like a , gun or a bow??? I say more people say gun, but you say bow, do your due diligence and check, then write a story about your UNBIASED findings . and I will admit if I'm wrong. !!! that will prove it's debunked as you say it is. Then only with time , will we be able to judge if those terrible myths that bowhunters talk about will come to fruition when this stuiped thing is passed in Alberta.