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  #1771  
Old 12-10-2018, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Talking moose View Post
So the oilers are a one man team eh? How’s it feel for your team to be beat by a single player? Thank god Edmonton doesn’t have 2 players....
I'd say you have two, McDavid is playing pretty well.

Last edited by Trochu; 12-10-2018 at 02:14 PM.
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  #1772  
Old 12-10-2018, 02:10 PM
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If McDavid gets hurt, God forbid, reality of the situation will be pretty apparent. Without him, Oiler's are cellar team with LA and Hawks...with him, they are 5th in Pacific and 16th overall today, and barely over .500 (.533 to be exact). It's all fun to talk about the Mighty Oil but the success is based on one player, who may or may not be able to keep carrying the team. But he sure is fun to watch, best player ever I believe. Would be great to see what he could do on a good team.
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  #1773  
Old 12-10-2018, 02:55 PM
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Hmmm I cant see McDavid getting in the playoffs. He will get tired. Carrying this team isnt easy.
I think they will make it as long as McDavid doesn't get hurt and the goaltending stays about .910.

I reason is not because I am a Oilers fan but because McDavid has never slumped. Steady as she goes. There are 15 players right now on pace for 95+ points. Rantanen is on pace for +130. 8 are currently on pace for 100+ (2 Flames). In the end I believe 3 will crack 100; MacKinnon, Kucherov and McDavid with McDavid winning the scoring race again even under Hitchcock's style.
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  #1774  
Old 12-10-2018, 03:00 PM
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I'd say you have two, McDavid is playing pretty well.
Flames are fairly happy with Linholm and Monahan are they not? Draisaitl is at the same point total for this season. Bigger contract but Hitchcock is now using him on the PK, PP, and defensive zone draws. Although he does a lion's share, McDavid is not doing it all himself. I can't think of 1 Oiler that is not playing better and with more heart under Hitchcock. Even that "plug" Kassian is contributing.
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  #1775  
Old 12-10-2018, 03:10 PM
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Flames are fairly happy with Linholm and Monahan are they not? Draisaitl is at the same point total for this season. Bigger contract but Hitchcock is now using him on the PK, PP, and defensive zone draws. Although he does a lion's share, McDavid is not doing it all himself. I can't think of 1 Oiler that is not playing better and with more heart under Hitchcock. Even that "plug" Kassian is contributing.
I was referring to Koskinen, who's Draisaitl? Easily the Oiler's MVP at this point in the season IMO. Second best GAA, 3rd best SV% (out of first by 0.001), 2nd best in SO, and 5th best W% in the league. He would be in contention for the Veznia if voting was today. Very impressive given he was in the KHL last year and the Oiler's defense. Rinne has slightly better numbers, playing behind Josi, Ekholm, Ellis, and Subban.
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  #1776  
Old 12-10-2018, 03:25 PM
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I was referring to Koskinen, who's Draisaitl? Easily the Oiler's MVP at this point in the season IMO. Second best GAA, 3rd best SV% (out of first by 0.001), 2nd best in SO, and 5th best W% in the league. He would be in contention for the Veznia if voting was today. Very impressive given he was in the KHL last year and the Oiler's defense. Rinne has slightly better numbers, playing behind Josi, Ekholm, Ellis, and Subban.
Then I would say the Oilers have 3 elite players unless of course you think Lindholm, Monohan, and Thachuk are all sucking at this point!

Draisaitl is on pace for over 90 points and it looks like he will play the rest of the season with McDavid. Do you think Monahan has a better chance to crack 90 playing with Johnny?

What do think Marner is going to sign for next year. Do you think it is less than 8.5? Is he any different than Draisaitl in the way he compliments Tavares's play. Do you really think Marner is driving that line and Tavares is riding shotgun. Do thinking Rantanen is driving his line?
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  #1777  
Old 12-10-2018, 04:37 PM
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I'm not sure who is driving those lines, but I'd sure like to see what McDavid could do playing on a line like that (McKinnon, Rantanen, McDavid? Mathews, Nylander, McDavid?? Pasternac, Bergeron and McDavid.....Oh my).

Just had to imagine something like that for a minute.

Gaudreau, Lindholm and McDavid even. Wow.
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  #1778  
Old 12-10-2018, 05:36 PM
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Might as well just give the flames the trophy right now, gona be the first team ever to win the cup before Christmas.
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  #1779  
Old 12-10-2018, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck View Post
I'm not sure who is driving those lines, but I'd sure like to see what McDavid could do playing on a line like that (McKinnon, Rantanen, McDavid? Mathews, Nylander, McDavid?? Pasternac, Bergeron and McDavid.....Oh my).

Just had to imagine something like that for a minute.

Gaudreau, Lindholm and McDavid even. Wow.
The closest we would have come would have been the Olympics. Can you imagine an offence with the likes McDavid, Crosby, MacKinnon, Tavares, Barzal, Skinner, Scheifele, Giroux, Marchand, Bergeron, O'Reilly, Stamkos, Point, Marner, etc

And the defence would be sick as well.

The US team would be looking really good as well.
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  #1780  
Old 12-10-2018, 07:12 PM
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It would be a Canadian dream team...but Bettman said, 'NNNO!!!'. So we will not get to see it. That little Hall of Fame jerk!
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  #1781  
Old 12-10-2018, 07:35 PM
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Then I would say the Oilers have 3 elite players unless of course you think Lindholm, Monohan, and Thachuk are all sucking at this point!

Draisaitl is on pace for over 90 points and it looks like he will play the rest of the season with McDavid. Do you think Monahan has a better chance to crack 90 playing with Johnny?

What do think Marner is going to sign for next year. Do you think it is less than 8.5? Is he any different than Draisaitl in the way he compliments Tavares's play. Do you really think Marner is driving that line and Tavares is riding shotgun. Do thinking Rantanen is driving his line?
I don't think they are sucking, but elite might be a little to strong for me. Tkachuk might get there, but he's not there yet. I honestly believe that if Draisaitl was in Thachucks spot, he wouldn't be a PPG player.

Now, on to your questions....

No, I don't think Monahan is going to put up 90 points.
$9M. I think the big difference is Draisaitl has never put up 69 points playing without McDavid. How many points do you think he'd put up without McDavid?
I haven't watched any Leafs/Colorado games, but I'd assume Tavares and McKinnon drive the lines. Tavares has a long history of making his wingers better, but I don't think he's ever played with one as skilled as Marner. Another thing to note, Taveres is on track to destroy his previous season best for goals and slightly eclipse his point total. Is McDavid on track to score 15 more goals this season and eclipse his season best because he's playing with Leon? I don't think so.
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  #1782  
Old 12-10-2018, 08:06 PM
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I don't think they are sucking, but elite might be a little to strong for me. Tkachuk might get there, but he's not there yet. I honestly believe that if Draisaitl was in Thachucks spot, he wouldn't be a PPG player.

Now, on to your questions....

No, I don't think Monahan is going to put up 90 points.
$9M. I think the big difference is Draisaitl has never put up 69 points playing without McDavid. How many points do you think he'd put up without McDavid?
I haven't watched any Leafs/Colorado games, but I'd assume Tavares and McKinnon drive the lines. Tavares has a long history of making his wingers better, but I don't think he's ever played with one as skilled as Marner. Another thing to note, Taveres is on track to destroy his previous season best for goals and slightly eclipse his point total. Is McDavid on track to score 15 more goals this season and eclipse his season best because he's playing with Leon? I don't think so.


He is actually ahead of last year and if he production increase like it did in the final 2 months last year then he could realistically end up with 15 more points then last year. 15 more goals would be a stretch.

And absolutely McDavid gets more points playing with Draisaitl, this has been proven since he has played with basically everyone on the team at 1 point or the other.

Does Gaudreau get more points playing with Monahan? We will never know because he hasn't played with anyone else. And how many points would Monahan get without Gaudreau and vice versa?

And on Tavares, he gets an upgrade on the other winger on the PP which has accounted for more than a few points. McDavid rolls with his regular line and Nuge on Defense. Would you rather have Matthews or Nuge as a offensive upgrade?
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  #1783  
Old 12-10-2018, 08:11 PM
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I don't think they are sucking, but elite might be a little to strong for me. Tkachuk might get there, but he's not there yet. I honestly believe that if Draisaitl was in Thachucks spot, he wouldn't be a PPG player.

Now, on to your questions....

No, I don't think Monahan is going to put up 90 points.
$9M. I think the big difference is Draisaitl has never put up 69 points playing without McDavid. How many points do you think he'd put up without McDavid?
I haven't watched any Leafs/Colorado games, but I'd assume Tavares and McKinnon drive the lines. Tavares has a long history of making his wingers better, but I don't think he's ever played with one as skilled as Marner. Another thing to note, Taveres is on track to destroy his previous season best for goals and slightly eclipse his point total. Is McDavid on track to score 15 more goals this season and eclipse his season best because he's playing with Leon? I don't think so.
Cap hit is $8.5
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  #1784  
Old 12-10-2018, 08:26 PM
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Cap hit is $8.5
What are you talking about, Marner hasn't signed yet?
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  #1785  
Old 12-10-2018, 08:32 PM
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Where is the LIKE button
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  #1786  
Old 12-10-2018, 08:33 PM
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I guess my point is, we have a guy playing on the second line, and two wingers on the first line, who I think would easily exceed 100 points playing with McDavid who are getting paid considerably less than Draisaitl. That's one team. I feel there are lterally dozens of players who would complement McDavid better than Draisaitl at a lower cap hit.
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  #1787  
Old 12-10-2018, 08:36 PM
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I guess my point is, we have a guy playing on the second line, and two wingers on the first line, who I think would easily exceed 100 points playing with McDavid who are getting paid considerably less than Draisaitl. That's one team. I feel there are lterally dozens of players who would complement McDavid better than Draisaitl at a lower cap hit.
I will agree with this.
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  #1788  
Old 12-10-2018, 09:23 PM
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I guess my point is, we have a guy playing on the second line, and two wingers on the first line, who I think would easily exceed 100 points playing with McDavid who are getting paid considerably less than Draisaitl. That's one team. I feel there are lterally dozens of players who would complement McDavid better than Draisaitl at a lower cap hit.
Yes, but if they spent a season with McDavid and had 90+ points, and then were due for contract the next year, they would be signing for Draisaitl money.

I guess you were saying Marner will get 9 (I thought you were referring to Draisaitl). But Marner doesn't get 9 without the year he is having this year and some of it is due to Tavares.

Did you think Seabrook would have got his big salary without Keith?

Is Marchand the architect of his success or is it the coach that plays him with Pastrnak and Bergeron?
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  #1789  
Old 12-10-2018, 09:46 PM
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I guess my point is, we have a guy playing on the second line, and two wingers on the first line, who I think would easily exceed 100 points playing with McDavid who are getting paid considerably less than Draisaitl. That's one team. I feel there are lterally dozens of players who would complement McDavid better than Draisaitl at a lower cap hit.




I think you would be hard press to find "dozens" of players that would be more productive with McDavid then Draisaitl at a cheaper cost. Especially if you take into account entry level, bridge deals, and the year they sign their last contract. Sure entry level and older contracts seem cheaper but a lot them were the top contracts at the time.

Draisailt contract is only 1 year old and is locked up for 8 years. Johnny got 4 years left and will be negotiating in 3. He will be 29 years of age. Do you think Calgary will give him an 8 year deal at age 29? They will do a 4 to 5 year which will have his contract expiring near the expiry of Draisaitl's. With the current rate of salary increases let's say in 4 years they need to give Johnny 11 maybe 12 million a year for 4 years. Now does it look like they over paid for Draisaitl?

They will get ten years out of Johnny for 85 million and 8 years out of Draisaitl for 68 million. This why I can't understand all the moaning and complaining about the Draisaitl contract

If Crosby is 23-24 right now, what do you think he signs for?
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  #1790  
Old 12-10-2018, 10:02 PM
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Yes, but if they spent a season with McDavid and had 90+ points, and then were due for contract the next year, they would be signing for Draisaitl money.
Maybe, I doubt it.

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I guess you were saying Marner will get 9 (I thought you were referring to Draisaitl). But Marner doesn't get 9 without the year he is having this year and some of it is due to Tavares.
Marner has put up more points without Tavares than Draisaitl ever has without McDavid. On the flip side, Tavares will likely score more and put up more points than he ever has without Marner. Maybe not from the Oilers roster, but I think you could find dozens of players that would compliment McDavid for cheaper than Draisaitl does. You apparently don't agree, and I'm okay with that.

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Did you think Seabrook would have got his big salary without Keith?
Nope. And to a much lesser degree of course, but I feel the Draisaitl signing has similarities.

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Is Marchand the architect of his success or is it the coach that plays him with Pastrnak and Bergeron?
Don't know, but an excellent example. Marchand put up 85 points last year and the year prior. Draisaitl has never eclipsed 77 but has a cap hit about $2.5M more. More points, playing with worse players, can still run without Bergeron as he's been out about half the season and Marchand is still putting up the points, and has a cap hit about $2.5M less.

An extreme example, granted, but I feel it has similarities to Ferland. I believe he is on pace for 36 goals this year. Is he worth $8M by himself? I think most would say no. Is he worth $8M playing with Aho and Teravainen? Maybe. But who's to say a skilled call up making $750K couldn't put up 30 playing with those guys. What if you lose Aho to injury, are you essentially losing two guys cause Ferland can't produce by himself? Is it worth that money for the associated risk? If we are just talking complementary pieces, Chiasson has 3 less goals than Leon, double the +/-, and gets league minimum. Is the extra $7.5+M for those three goals good value?

I just think he got about $2M too much.
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  #1791  
Old 12-10-2018, 10:22 PM
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Maybe, I doubt it.



Marner has put up more points without Tavares than Draisaitl ever has without McDavid. On the flip side, Tavares will likely score more and put up more points than he ever has without Marner. Maybe not from the Oilers roster, but I think you could find dozens of players that would compliment McDavid for cheaper than Draisaitl does. You apparently don't agree, and I'm okay with that.



Nope. And to a much lesser degree of course, but I feel the Draisaitl signing has similarities.


Don't know, but an excellent example. Marchand put up 85 points last year and the year prior. Draisaitl has never eclipsed 77 but has a cap hit about $2.5M more. More points, playing with worse players, can still run without Bergeron as he's been out about half the season and Marchand is still putting up the points, and has a cap hit about $2.5M less.

Marchand signed after a 61 pt season.

An extreme example, granted, but I feel it has similarities to Ferland. I believe he is on pace for 36 goals this year. Is he worth $8M by himself? I think most would say no. Is he worth $8M playing with Aho and Teravainen? Maybe. But who's to say a skilled call up making $750K couldn't put up 30 playing with those guys. What if you lose Aho to injury, are you essentially losing two guys cause Ferland can't produce by himself? Is it worth that money for the associated risk? If we are just talking complementary pieces, Chiasson has 3 less goals than Leon, double the +/-, and gets league minimum. Is the extra $7.5+M for those three goals good value?

Ferland is fair comparison to Chaisson, not Draisaitl. And Ferland was on the same pace at the start of last season with Johnny and Monahan, but that took a nose dive quick.

I just think he got about $2M too much.
Look at it this way, for the next 2 years he is over paid, then for the next 2 he will be paid correctly, and for the 4 years after that he will be a bargain.
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  #1792  
Old 12-10-2018, 11:18 PM
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Look at it this way, for the next 2 years he is over paid, then for the next 2 he will be paid correctly, and for the 4 years after that he will be a bargain.
Unless the salary cap stays the same.
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  #1793  
Old 12-11-2018, 05:59 AM
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Unless the salary cap stays the same.
But it will not, it has always gone up and is projected to be 82 million for next year.
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  #1794  
Old 12-11-2018, 02:43 PM
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I think you would be hard press to find "dozens" of players that would be more productive with McDavid then Draisaitl at a cheaper cost.
I'm not going to take into account percentage of cap space when the deal was signed as that would take some time. I expect your interested to see if I'll take you bait and waste minutes of my day, and I wasn't going to, but what the heck. Here is my list, players who make less than Draisaitl who, if playing with McDavid, I believe would be more productive than LD:

-Rantanen;
-Mackinnon;
-Landeskog;
-Seguin;
-M. Granlund;
-Johansen;
-Forsberg;
-O'Reilly;
-Tarasenko;
-Wheeler;
-Scheifele;
-Connor;
-Laine;
-Gaudreau;
-Lindholm;
-Tkachuk;
-Pettersson;
-Horvat;
-Marchessault;
-Pastrnak;
-Marchand;
-Bergeron;
-Skinner;
-Huberdeau;
-Dadonov;
-Barkov;
-Domi;
-Stone;
-Duchene;
-Kucherov;
-Point;
-Marner;
-Matthews;
-Nylander;
-Aho;
-Panarin;
-Hall;
-Barzal;
-Giroux;
-Voracek;
-Kessel;
-Kuznetsov;
-Backstrom; and,
-Wilson.

I left out guys who are having pretty good years, such as Monahan, Atkinson, Meir who have 30+ plus points, but would be debatable.
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  #1795  
Old 12-11-2018, 03:21 PM
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I'm not going to take into account percentage of cap space when the deal was signed as that would take some time. I expect your interested to see if I'll take you bait and waste minutes of my day, and I wasn't going to, but what the heck. Here is my list, players who make less than Draisaitl who, if playing with McDavid, I believe would be more productive than LD:

-Rantanen;
-Mackinnon;
-Landeskog;
-Seguin;
-M. Granlund;
-Johansen;
-Forsberg;
-O'Reilly;
-Tarasenko;
-Wheeler;
-Scheifele;
-Connor;
-Laine;
-Gaudreau;
-Lindholm;
-Tkachuk;
-Pettersson;
-Horvat;
-Marchessault;
-Pastrnak;
-Marchand;
-Bergeron;
-Skinner;
-Huberdeau;
-Dadonov;
-Barkov;
-Domi;
-Stone;
-Duchene;
-Kucherov;
-Point;
-Marner;
-Matthews;
-Nylander;
-Aho;
-Panarin;
-Hall;
-Barzal;
-Giroux;
-Voracek;
-Kessel;
-Kuznetsov;
-Backstrom; and,
-Wilson.

I left out guys who are having pretty good years, such as Monahan, Atkinson, Meir who have 30+ plus points, but would be debatable.
I hate to say it, but you could maybe even add a couple of D'men to that list.
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  #1796  
Old 12-11-2018, 03:57 PM
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*gasp* you put the hated Turtle on the list! I can hear Oilers fans' heads exploding even as I type this...
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  #1797  
Old 12-11-2018, 05:00 PM
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Nobody hates Keith anymore. Most people are disgusted with him. Think 1880 saloon fight turtle. That kind of disgust. Where the other cowboys ride out of town..... without him. Lol.
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  #1798  
Old 12-11-2018, 05:07 PM
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But it will not, it has always gone up and is projected to be 82 million for next year.

84 I think.
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Old 12-11-2018, 06:00 PM
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I will agree with this.


Why? It's complete bunk.

For one...one of the players he's thinking of is a C so wouldn't be playing with McDavid.

One has never scored more than 45 pts in a season and is benefiting hugely from playing with "2" good players, a luxury he wouldn't have in Edm unless he was playing on the same unit as McDavid and Draisaitl. Not a chance he does it with only one. Take him off the top line in Cgy and he might be a 55 point player. Might.

No point in even bringing Turtles into the conversation. He'd be hard pressed to score 100 riding shotgun with Gretzky in 1984.

JH might, but that means McDavid would have 135-140. Big ask. These other players would become complimentary, just like Draisaitl is now. Not the role they're used to. Feed Connor the puck would be the new mantra and Draisaitl does it very well.

There were 3 100 point players in the league last year. All are better players than the 4 you're agreeing with. McDavid only had 108. One 100 point guy the year before. McDavid himself. One the year before that. Kane. They dont grow on trees anymore.

McDavids the best hockey player in the world. Not a silk purse maker.
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Old 12-11-2018, 06:28 PM
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Talking moose Talking moose is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 270person View Post
Why? It's complete bunk.

For one...one of the players he's thinking of is a C so wouldn't be playing with McDavid.

One has never scored more than 45 pts in a season and is benefiting hugely from playing with "2" good players, a luxury he wouldn't have in Edm unless he was playing on the same unit as McDavid and Draisaitl. Not a chance he does it with only one. Take him off the top line in Cgy and he might be a 55 point player. Might.

No point in even bringing Turtles into the conversation. He'd be hard pressed to score 100 riding shotgun with Gretzky in 1984.

JH might, but that means McDavid would have 135-140. Big ask. These other players would become complimentary, just like Draisaitl is now. Not the role they're used to. Feed Connor the puck would be the new mantra and Draisaitl does it very well.

There were 3 100 point players in the league last year. All are better players than the 4 you're agreeing with. McDavid only had 108. One 100 point guy the year before. McDavid himself. One the year before that. Kane. They dont grow on trees anymore.

McDavids the best hockey player in the world. Not a silk purse maker.
I honestly believe mcdavid hasn’t found his guy he really clicks with yet. When he does, the two will combine for 230 plus points.
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