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Old 01-22-2019, 04:09 PM
Maxwell87 Maxwell87 is offline
 
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Default How many rounds

Hi guys, looking for some info. How many rounds do you generally fire before you clean your rifle barrel? I’m new to the game and only have shotgun experience. For that I would do every couple hunts or maybe if I shot a case of target shells.

Trying to learn my first big game rifle Wich is a older Winchester 30-06. I plan to try to shoot it a fair amount. I’m sure there isn’t a set number but curious what some of the more experienced guys do? After each time 20-40 rounds? Or 100+? I had a guy tell me not to clean it to much because the bore gets tighter and helps with accuracy but that does seem odd to me?!?

I did completely clean and rebuild the gun before I first shot it. I don’t want to be excessive or even damage things cleaning the barrel to much nor do I want to neglect things. Thanks for any feedback.

Last edited by Maxwell87; 01-22-2019 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 01-22-2019, 05:28 PM
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I’ve read some fairly long winded “opinions” on this subject. This isn’t the best I’ve read but it’ll get you started. You’ll want to read the whole thread and it’ll certainly help if you can see the pics.

https://www.rokslide.com/forums/thre...g-zero.109781/
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Old 01-22-2019, 05:31 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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The proper use of cleaning equipment will not damage a barrel. Typically, bores that are free of copper fouling will be more consistent than fouled bores. Think of A as clean and Z as completely fouled. All other factors being equal, shots fired closest to A should group best, with accuracy falling off as Z is approached. Using a good barrel that has been properly broken in, most of us will not notice much difference for the first 40 or so shots.
Some shooters do not advocate cleaning for hundreds of rounds but I suspect they are happy with minute of rock performance
Regardless of the number of rounds fired between each thorough cleaning, it is a good idea to run an oil patch down the bore after each outing.
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Old 01-22-2019, 05:41 PM
NinjaHunter NinjaHunter is offline
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From what I know, it's when your accuracy starts suffering.

I believe The sniper 101 playlist by Tex made a good video about this. Just don't remember what was the video's name
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Old 01-22-2019, 06:22 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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It depends on the rifle, and the load. some will maintain accuracy for hundreds of rounds, some will have accuracy loss in 30 or 40 rounds. When the accuracy falls off, clean it. Once you learn when the accuracy falls off for that rifle/load, start cleaning the barrel before it normally starts to fall off.
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Old 01-22-2019, 06:58 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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The elephant in the room is what constitutes “when accuracy falls off”? Does it reference group size? Is it when only three of four hit the rock at whatever distance...? Are “called” fliers included, does it count when a shooter is “not doing their part” etc?
For shooter A accuracy falls off when groups exceed 1/2MOA, for B when they exceed 1MOA, for C when they exceed 1.5MOA.... Which then begs the question, “if I am used to MOA performance, and I shoot 1.5 MOA during a session, is it because accuracy fell off or I was just not doing my part that day”?
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Old 01-22-2019, 07:20 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
The elephant in the room is what constitutes “when accuracy falls off”? Does it reference group size? Is it when only three of four hit the rock at whatever distance...? Are “called” fliers included, does it count when a shooter is “not doing their part” etc?
For shooter A accuracy falls off when groups exceed 1/2MOA, for B when they exceed 1MOA, for C when they exceed 1.5MOA.... Which then begs the question, “if I am used to MOA performance, and I shoot 1.5 MOA during a session, is it because accuracy fell off or I was just not doing my part that day”?
If there is any doubt, the easy solution is to just clean the barrel to eliminate that factor. If that wasn't the issue, no harm done. One thing that I have discovered, is that the new copper fouling reduction powders definitely work. I am using CFE223, and CFE-BLK, and copper fouling has fallen off to almost being non existant.
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Last edited by elkhunter11; 01-22-2019 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 01-22-2019, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
The elephant in the room is what constitutes “when accuracy falls off”? Does it reference group size? Is it when only three of four hit the rock at whatever distance...? Are “called” fliers included, does it count when a shooter is “not doing their part” etc?

For shooter A accuracy falls off when groups exceed 1/2MOA, for B when they exceed 1MOA, for C when they exceed 1.5MOA.... Which then begs the question, “if I am used to MOA performance, and I shoot 1.5 MOA during a session, is it because accuracy fell off or I was just not doing my part that day”?


You didn’t read the link did you? I’m not qualified to have an opinion on the subject because I’ve never shot this many rounds through a rifle without cleaning and kept track of accuracy like this guy did.

I only piped up because I have read a bit about the subject and the thread wasn’t getting much action. I know I over clean my rifles so I’m not going to say much about my habits.

As for accuracy this seems good enough for ~8000 rounds without a clean from a tikka.



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Old 01-22-2019, 08:00 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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Coiloil ... my first thought being that not everything posted on the ‘net is true.
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Old 01-22-2019, 08:07 PM
marky_mark marky_mark is offline
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You have to take everything online with a grain of salt
I’d be interested to see how consistent that rifle is and the es and sd
It’s not all about your groups at 100 yards
If the numbers are good then there nothing wrong with doing what he’s doing
I don’t think many barrels/rifles Would get the same results
With a clean rifle you’ll always know what it’s going to do
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:42 PM
petew petew is offline
 
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If a gun leaves the house it gets cleaned when it returns.
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Old 01-23-2019, 07:08 AM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is offline
 
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Krieger shooters need to clean more often. As a rule they are fouling pigs.
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Old 01-23-2019, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petew View Post
If a gun leaves the house it gets cleaned when it returns.
Cleaned and oiled.
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Old 01-23-2019, 10:11 AM
Maxwell87 Maxwell87 is offline
 
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Thank you for the reply’s
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Old 01-23-2019, 11:32 AM
marky_mark marky_mark is offline
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If you live around Edmonton I have a brand new cleaning kit I would give you fur free
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Old 01-23-2019, 11:42 AM
Scottmisfits Scottmisfits is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
The elephant in the room is what constitutes “when accuracy falls off”? Does it reference group size? Is it when only three of four hit the rock at whatever distance...? Are “called” fliers included, does it count when a shooter is “not doing their part” etc?
For shooter A accuracy falls off when groups exceed 1/2MOA, for B when they exceed 1MOA, for C when they exceed 1.5MOA.... Which then begs the question, “if I am used to MOA performance, and I shoot 1.5 MOA during a session, is it because accuracy fell off or I was just not doing my part that day”?
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
If there is any doubt, the easy solution is to just clean the barrel to eliminate that factor. If that wasn't the issue, no harm done. One thing that I have discovered, is that the new copper fouling reduction powders definitely work. I am using CFE223, and CFE-BLK, and copper fouling has fallen off to almost being non existant.
260, I think you’re just over complicating it. Most shooters will know what they are capable of doing very quickly after a few Range visits. They will also know what their particular firearm is capable of in that same timeframe.
Even new Shooters with new guns should be able to see that fairly quickly and also know if it’s an equipment issue or they just weren’t feeling it that day.

That’s where Elk’s suggestion comes in, if you don’t know, clean. I don’t clean my barrels to often. I think my rimfires were the last to be cleaned. They had a drop of accuracy (defined by what I know they are capable of with the ammunition I have chosen to shoot through them). One of those was probably close to 3000 rounds, the other pushing 7000, if I had to estimate.

My answer to the question, is when you see you accuracy drop, as defined in my last paragraph, clean the barrel. If you know you were in a dirty environment, clean the barrel. I do tend to clean the rest of the gun more than I scrub the barrel.
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Old 01-23-2019, 12:14 PM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottmisfits View Post
260, I think you’re just over complicating it. Most shooters will know what they are capable of doing very quickly after a few Range visits. They will also know what their particular firearm is capable of in that same timeframe.
Even new Shooters with new guns should be able to see that fairly quickly and also know if it’s an equipment issue or they just weren’t feeling it that day.

That’s where Elk’s suggestion comes in, if you don’t know, clean. I don’t clean my barrels to often. I think my rimfires were the last to be cleaned. They had a drop of accuracy (defined by what I know they are capable of with the ammunition I have chosen to shoot through them). One of those was probably close to 3000 rounds, the other pushing 7000, if I had to estimate.

My answer to the question, is when you see you accuracy drop, as defined in my last paragraph, clean the barrel. If you know you were in a dirty environment, clean the barrel. I do tend to clean the rest of the gun more than I scrub the barrel.
This makes much sense.
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Old 01-23-2019, 12:50 PM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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Default barrel maintenance

Lots of interesting thoughts regarding barrel maintenance and accuracy on here. All good procedures and obviously they all get the job done.
My questions are.. how much time ,on average, do you spend on barrel maintenance? Do you oil the bore after cleaning? Do you brush? etc.

I'm seriously looking for a simple method of keeping my bores clean without spending an unreasonable amount of time and effort to accomplish the task.
Currently I'm using Wipeout and a Bore Snake with a patch but I have seen it mentioned that is not the preferred method. I have some pretty decent barrels and I may be doing something that is causing more harm than good in the long run. The main question is.. Is Wipeout detrimental to barrels?
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Old 01-23-2019, 01:12 PM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is offline
 
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Wipeout isn’t, your boresnake might be.
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Old 01-23-2019, 01:25 PM
Ryan.M.Anderson Ryan.M.Anderson is offline
 
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I go 200+ rounds between cleanings, I really don't pay attention and just do it when I have time really.

My guns maintain better than .5MOA accuracy the whole time.

Many of the shooters that I compete with are the same.
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Old 01-23-2019, 01:25 PM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Wipeout isn’t, your boresnake might be.
OK . Wipeout is good, the Boresnake may not be. In twenty words or more,
could you explain what you found about the negatives regarding a Boresnake.
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Old 01-23-2019, 01:32 PM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is offline
 
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Can break, runs crud back through the bore, drags over the crown
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Old 01-23-2019, 01:43 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Unless you clean a boresnake after every single pass through the bore, you are dragging the same crud down the barrel. As well, without some type of bore protector, it will drag that crud over the crown.
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Old 01-23-2019, 02:02 PM
Wrongside Wrongside is offline
 
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Depends on the rifle. Barrels that don’t foul almost never get cleaned. Only if accuracy falls off. Then it’s Wipeout once or twice and done. I don’t like cleaning rifle barrels and have found it doesn’t need to be done as often as most think.
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Old 01-23-2019, 02:04 PM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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Quote:
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Can break, runs crud back through the bore, drags over the crown
Good Points. The possibility of breaking for sure. So far I've been lucky. I use the Boresnake with a patch over the brush. After a couple of uses with Wipeout the copper brushes have dissolved to a smaller diameter so adding the patch doesn't present a problem.

Do you ever use a brush in your bores ?
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Old 01-23-2019, 02:25 PM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Unless you clean a boresnake after every single pass through the bore, you are dragging the same crud down the barrel. As well, without some type of bore protector, it will drag that crud over the crown.
That is the one thing I was concerned about with the Boresnake so I phoned Sharpshooter (mfg) and asked about that. Their explanation was that the body of the Boresnake is very loosely woven so the any particles that could potentially cause bore damage would be forced under pressure in to the woven material long before any bore damage could occur. That kind of made sense to me. I dunno, but that appears to be the case. They also recommended washing after a few uses.
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Old 01-23-2019, 02:27 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
That is the one thing I was concerned about with the Boresnake so I phoned Sharpshooter (mfg) and asked about that. Their explanation was that the body of the Boresnake is very loosely woven so the any particles that could potentially cause bore damage would be forced under pressure in to the woven material long before any bore damage could occur. That kind of made sense to me. I dunno, but that appears to be the case. They also recommended washing after a few uses.
If you were the manufacturer of boresnakes what would you tell anyone that asked?
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Old 01-23-2019, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
Coiloil ... my first thought being that not everything posted on the ‘net is true.
The individual referenced by Coil is very experienced and well known in LR shooting circles in the US. Definitley not just some Joe Blow off the internet.
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Old 01-23-2019, 03:03 PM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
If you were the manufacturer of boresnakes what would you tell anyone that asked?
Sure I would, but I asked, and their explanation made sense to me. Now, after using Boresnakes exclusively for about 4 years the explanation appears to have proven itself . I have not noticed any adverse effects to my barrels in any form. If there is a better way, please tell me what it is ..seriously
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Old 01-23-2019, 03:05 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
Sure I would, but I asked, and their explanation made sense to me. Now, after using Boresnakes exclusively for about 4 years the explanation appears to have proven itself . I have not noticed any adverse effects to my barrels in any form. If there is a better way, please tell me what it is ..seriously
I will stick with one piece cleaning rods, bore guides, and cotton patches. That is what the benchrest shooters use, so that is good enough for me.
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