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05-22-2018, 11:35 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 356
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What to build my deck on?
I'm planning on building a front deck/porch on the front of my house. Off the sidemy concrete stairs and porch, in front of my living room window, between the house and sidewalk that leads to the back is a 6'x20' space that used to be a 'garden'.
I've ripped out that garden and re-purposed the top soil which had been nothing more than a crab grass haven. I dug down to the clay and now the area is about 8 inches below the sidewalk.
My thought is to fill it with clay and pack it. I then will install cement block footings and build the deck. My logic is that the clay will be at grade and allow for proper drainage away from the house. And with the clay packed down my footings should be fairly stable.
Am I out to lunch with this idea? I've been reading all kinds of stuff about crush gravel, had one person recommend not filling this water trap at all (no idea why)... Any thoughts would be appreciated
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05-22-2018, 12:19 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2014
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Lots of options you can choose, the gravel under the concrete pads help water drain while still being a solid foundation for your pad to not sink. I’d get your back yard marked for utilities and then buy the screw piles from home depo. You screw them in yourself at the beam location, just make sure you screw them into the ground all the way so you just have a couple inches sticking out. Have adjustable post pockets on top to make it easier for levelling the deck if needed during or after construction.
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05-22-2018, 12:28 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 19,417
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I would never ever build a deck on anything less than proper footings, be they concrete with a treated post or galvanized bracket embedded in it or screw piles. Why risk frost heave or ground compaction twisting your deck up by building on masonry block 'feet'?
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05-22-2018, 12:46 PM
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You are supposed to get a building permit for any work on your home like that in which case it has to be built to code. The counties that I deal with want a diagram of the work for approval and then you have to pay for an inspection. If you go the permit route you will require cement footings or screw in pilings. You will also require a railing if the deck is 2' high at the highest point.
If you don't go the permit route, I would use deck blocks on the ground as it is now as it will be a solid base. Then I would add clay to grade it away from the house. That area will not see much water except if it seeps in from your lawn.
I've build many decks with just the deck blocks and I have never had any issues other than perhaps adding a couple of shims here and there if a block sunk a bit.
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05-22-2018, 01:34 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterDave
You are supposed to get a building permit for any work on your home like that in which case it has to be built to code. The counties that I deal with want a diagram of the work for approval and then you have to pay for an inspection. If you go the permit route you will require cement footings or screw in pilings. You will also require a railing if the deck is 2' high at the highest point.
If you don't go the permit route, I would use deck blocks on the ground as it is now as it will be a solid base. Then I would add clay to grade it away from the house. That area will not see much water except if it seeps in from your lawn.
I've build many decks with just the deck blocks and I have never had any issues other than perhaps adding a couple of shims here and there if a block sunk a bit.
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Different cities have different codes but yes you’re right about the permits. I’ve built lots of decks in Edmonton area and I believe no permit is needed if the deck is below 2’ off the ground. Codes could have changed since I contracted in Edmonton last.
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05-22-2018, 01:47 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 356
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My question isn't about code or footings.
I'm looking for insight as to what to do about the 8 inch below grade hole in staring at. Is filling it with clay the best option? Wil that provide good drainage away from the house while also being stable or study enough to put piles or pads or legs or whatever I desire?
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05-22-2018, 03:08 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Eh
My question isn't about code or footings.
I'm looking for insight as to what to do about the 8 inch below grade hole in staring at. Is filling it with clay the best option? Wil that provide good drainage away from the house while also being stable or study enough to put piles or pads or legs or whatever I desire?
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Depends on the clay. If it's high plastic, concrete blocks will settle somewhat. If it supports the boot heel test after compacting (95% Proctor) then you're likely fine. As stated previously, a little to no shimming may be required over the years. If you're building the ultimate mahogany deck, then piles to 10 feet or more would limit frost heave.
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05-22-2018, 03:40 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 584
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A basic deck I would do the deck block support. A complicated deck with more than one common support beam screw piles would be better.
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05-22-2018, 03:50 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaberTosser
I would never ever build a deck on anything less than proper footings, be they concrete with a treated post or galvanized bracket embedded in it or screw piles. Why risk frost heave or ground compaction twisting your deck up by building on masonry block 'feet'?
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This and I would have a chat with the MD, City or powers that be for permit and building requirements for that area. Cut corners and it will nip you in the butt.
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05-22-2018, 04:26 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2015
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If it is attached to house on one side you will need permits. If it’s free Floating and not more then 24 inches high no permit required. So if you attach to house google your municipality and log up deck permits and requirments. Some rural municipalities require 12 foot piles on decks.
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05-22-2018, 04:59 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzukisam
If it is attached to house on one side you will need permits. If it’s free Floating and not more then 24 inches high no permit required. So if you attach to house google your municipality and log up deck permits and requirments. Some rural municipalities require 12 foot piles on decks.
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in my city the requirement for piles is if it has an attached roof! Permits like you said!
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05-22-2018, 05:12 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Copperhead Road, Morinville
Posts: 19,290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Eh
My question isn't about code or footings.
I'm looking for insight as to what to do about the 8 inch below grade hole in staring at. Is filling it with clay the best option? Wil that provide good drainage away from the house while also being stable or study enough to put piles or pads or legs or whatever I desire?
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Yes, filling with clay is the best option. Deck blocks are about 9" high so like I said, I'd put the blocks in on the already compacted ground and then fill everything in with clay and grade it afterwards. I also wouldn't bother compacting the clay fill. It won't get much water there and will settle on its own.
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05-22-2018, 05:27 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterDave
Yes, filling with clay is the best option. Deck blocks are about 9" high so like I said, I'd put the blocks in on the already compacted ground and then fill everything in with clay and grade it afterwards. I also wouldn't bother compacting the clay fill. It won't get much water there and will settle on its own.
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clay for sure . Packing or not ok . Just be prepared for it to settle if you choose not mech pack.
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05-22-2018, 05:59 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 121
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I am a gc for my day job. I would say your correct to simply fill it up with clay. Achieve the proper grading you want for drainage and your good to go for a hole.
As for the deck, I would recommend real concrete piles or real machine installed screw piles. Both options should go below the frost line to provide you with everlasting support that will not move. If you do not mind adjusting the deck yearly you could look into some of the “bases” that are available to support the beam, or pour short piles, home installed screw piles. What I recommend is sort of overkill.... but overkill lasts. An hour of adjustment every year and you have paid for the proper supports in 5-10 years.
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05-22-2018, 08:37 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 11,851
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The cost of having a guy come out and drill a few nice and deep holes (well below the frost line) and according to code is worth the money over the long run. I sunk my deck posts 8-9 feet and used 6x6's (pressure treated). Guy charged me like $200 to drill 4 piles with his bobcat.
To backfill and plumb your posts.
1) 3 scoops of 3/4" (20mm) crushed gravel and a scoop of portland cement - scoop it into your wheelbarrow and give it a few quick mixes dry.
2) Drop half a wheelbarrow in the hole and pack it down. I used spare long 2x4 I had kicking around.
3) Put the 6x6 post into the hole. Start filling around the post with the same mix packing it down every half wheelbarrow or so until it's full and packed dry. As you pound the 2x4 on one side the post will move that way - once she's plumb just keep packing around evenly. No post wrestling required - no bracing - no sweat.
The key thing here pack around as you go up and it will be solid and plumb.
Also do the post furthest from each other (on the far ends from each other) and then set up the posts in the middle so they line up nice and neatly. You can use a masons line to verify alignment.
4) When all the posts are done and you are happy with the alignment - water them all in and crack a beer and watch the concrete cure.
Don't look back - this is the proper way to do it.
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