Quality Trout Fisheries in Alberta - Page 53

huntsfurfish · #**1561** 03-28-2011, 08:55 AM

oops

Pudelpointer · #**1562** 03-28-2011, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

hahhahahhahaahha lol bahahawa......thats too funny i had to reply.

i have a problem with people who add sparkle to them selfs
...i dont really care how much smarter you suggest you are. I only believe in awards and compliments given by others not the self appointed ones.

Awards mean squat to me. Experience and hard work does. Since compliments given by others matters to you, would you like 3 references?

Awards and Compliments.... hmmmm, you really seem concerned with what others think. What do YOU think? What is your current position and why?

It is all well and good to complain and point fingers, and demand someone else does something (or does nothing), but where are the solutions? What are the possibilities? What makes sense to you?

If you think the bios are wrong, you better be able to explain why you think so. You better have at least a basic understanding of their role and their mandate. If you want to make a complaint does it make sense to tell the cashier that they are stupid and useless because the store does not carry the products that you are looking for? Maybe it is better to tell that front
line person what you would really like to see, and nicely ask them to tell their boss what the customers are looking for.

I still find it funny that this site won't let me write SALT WATER without the space. See..... sal****er.

ETA, Chubby, my response to Huntsforfish seems to have set you off for some reason. He asked a question and I answered it. I don't see the issue. I re-read my post to see if I was yanking my own chain, but if I am, I don't see it. That is my background in fisheries. I am still just a fisherman in this conversation.

Not sure, but I think Huntsforfish was trying to understand where everyone was coming from. A large part of our biases and opinions stem from past experiences, and sometimes understanding what those are helps us to understand the other person; that way it is not just "I'm RIGHT!" "NO, I'm RIGHT!"

What is your background Chubby? I have no idea from your posts. We know you are retired, but what did you do before? Maybe it will help us understand your posts better.

SNAPFisher · #**1563** 03-28-2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Driving 3 kms to the Morinville Rez doesn't cost much to catch tiddlers. Right now they are a nice eatin size at about 12".

That's the problem with the attitudes of allot of Alberta anglers.........They figure that if you catch/keep smaller eatin sized fish that you are somehow less of an angler. My opinion is the complete opposite in that anglers that only want to catch/keep big fish are the problem.

If you figure yourself to be better for only catching big fish at Muir Lake than a fella that fishes smaller fish at a regular stocked lake then good for you. I don't see it that way and I'll NEVER be ashamed of fishing for "tiddlers" if I want to eat some trout so you can forget about rubbing my nose in that! If I happen to catch a big trout then it goes back into the lake and all that I'm left with are 12" "tiddlers". What an absolutely frickin novel idea!

If I only want to keep bigger fish it's only about 30 kms to the Muir Lake fish farm. That's what it's designed for.

YIPPEE...........everyone gets to catch big fish!

Good post. I'm only poking fun about keeping smaller fish. "Pan fries" make a great meal for sure. Generally though, I have found many of our ponds to have less than satisfactory taste. In some of these lakes the tiddlers are the only ones that have any flavor - they are fresh still. There is a pond near where I live that has some decent trout. By the fall, they are not good to eat. And I love to eat fish - i.e. my taste buds are pretty forgiving.

So, based on this thinking, it only seems natural to me that some of the poor quality fisheries would do well to provide a different experience (i.e. quality). There are always going to be those that oppose it and have views, like yourself, that are not willing to change. Again, we are not talking about all the ponds you like to fish but ones that are good candidates for it. If some of these have to be currently dead ponds/lakes, so be it.

I really get your thinking of why you think this is bad. A stocked lake/pond that has fish that are simply caught, re-caught, over-caught only to die of old age. Yep, I understand why you compare this to a hunt-farm. I really do.
It has made me rethink the whole process more than once.

If I can understand your thinking I hope the same can be said and you can follow mine and others that are looking for that variety. If the variety is not important to you it certainly seems to be for others, and, enough of them to not just dismiss it.

If your thinking follows the lines of "easier", it is not at all a leap to think of stocked lakes/ponds being easier to catch trout. That would have to be a primary reason they were created in the first place. Tiddlers have to be the easiest of all. They haven't even gotten used to their environment yet. And, man are they "easy" to catch. Having raised both rainbows and brookies, that first month they are still swimming around at the top of their new environment and haven't yet learned of "death from above". So many get taken that way without introducing an angler yet. Point being, "easiest" fish to catch.

This is why when you go off on tangents of "easier" or "elitist" that I scratch my head on this side going "why is this guy going here?". Are we all not looking for similar things in the even having an interest in stocked fish? Subtle differences in approach that and not wide chasms in understanding? Yes/no?

By the way, my referecne to fish farming is definately not meant as "Gee, I farm fish and know so much more than anybody else". Hopefully it doesn't come across that way. Just adding what I've learned. Typing on a forum is not such an efficient way to communicate.

HunterDave · #**1564** 03-28-2011, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNAPFisher

If I can understand your thinking I hope the same can be said and you can follow mine and others that are looking for that variety. If the variety is not important to you it certainly seems to be for others, and, enough of them to not just dismiss it.

I understand it......I don't condone it but I certainly understand it.

SNAPFisher · #**1565** 03-28-2011, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I understand it......I don't condone it but I certainly understand it.

Hope the rest of my post provided some clarity as to where my thinking is. If it helped great, if not, so be it.

huntsfurfish · #**1566** 03-28-2011, 11:24 AM

CD

Pudel answered my question and rather well I might add(as have a few others). It is not required if you choose not to .

Ragging on someone for answering a direct question... cmon. Get on my case for asking, not him.

I volunteered my credentials. And I have no background in fisheries. So I am JUST a fisherman too.

chubbdarter · #**1567** 03-28-2011, 01:22 PM

What everyone does for living is a amusing question.
I answered that im retired but i'll play if it makes you happy

I am retired (what does that even mean???).

What it means is I have an extensive background and wide ranging experience in life.

In fish-related-experience, I have volunteered in numerous sturgeon studies and RBT tagging progams.

What does it all mean.....jack chit

What i do want is answers to the topic at hand.....now that this smoke screen is cleared up.

Why are you adding more work to the bio's you claim are getting yelled at. If they are already over worked, wont their other duties suffer also? If that happens wont every species suffer?
Are you purposng these changes without fishery biologists?

I have taken your advice and e-mailed in letter which asks about the "yelling" and the possbilty of how a quality fishery can be developed.

chubbdarter · #**1568** 03-28-2011, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Fisheries departments everywhere have at one point or another gone on a stocking tangent they regretted. The stocking of lakers in various lakes that have bull trout and other sensitive species have cost them lots of time and money. Yellowstone Lake for instance.

As a result...you will find the current generally accepted practice North American wide of not stocking non natives unless sterile.

While I am an advocate for options of all sorts including fish species...they do have to be careful. Still...splake and tiger trout would be a great start to try...put em in some of the ruined rainbow trout put and take lakes with perch. Theory goes that they predate very well on them.

I wonder if the water that they put kokanee in have a place for them to spawn or if it is yearly stocking. That would be very expensive. A lake like Travers would not work. The Oldman Res would work but it is hard to say the impact on the native bulls. Given their size and the fact there are browns and rainbows there already...I would suspect the bull would eat kokanee if they could catch them. As filter feeder however...there is maybe not enough food for them.

They would probably do okay in Cold Lake. They stocked Coho in Cold Lake years ago but they obviously did not work.

Im not sure if i should be posting this info, but with the new construction i guess it doesnt matter.

Down where the water leaves Travers. There is one spillway that departs south as the little bow river eventully entering the Oldman river near Turin.....each and every spring i watch RBT try to climb the massive spillway. At the foot of the spillway are reds in the gravel.I used to see only acouple reds now they are overlapping
The other exit has water leaving Travers into a canal headed to Little Bow Res. At the tail waters of this chute dam is a clean gravel base. The rainbows spawn there and there is more and more every year. The suckers and whitefish congregate in high numbers...im guessing to consume the eggs.

I dont know if they are successful in their attempt to have offspring but they are diffinitely going thru the motions. And yes both male and female are ripe.

Also numerous friends are catching more and larger trout in Travers and LBR while they are fishing for perch.

Also when i go to watch the Walleye spawn i see alot of RBT in the tailings behind the walleye in the evenings,but not in the early am...i dont know why.

The part i find unusual is we dont hear about or see alot of Brown trout. My wife caught a 7lb brown on a ripplin red fin casting at night for walleyes.

I know everyone says it cant be done...because some book says it cant....all im reporting what i have seen with my own eyes. Not that im any kind of expert with formal training. All i have is that i grew up near Travers as a farm kid i could drive there on back roads since i was 9. I have many days on that lake and ive watched some amazing things happen.

There is another RES. that needs some thought....ST Marys. I have gotten to know this Res. very well also and i believe its full potenial is far from being used to its fulllest. Check its water source and it will provide you with some clues as to what im seeing there.

Pudelpointer · #**1569** 03-28-2011, 02:41 PM

St. Mary is an interesting reservoir alright. I have suspected that a lot of what appears to be whitefish activity might actually be trout. I have not observed any directly, nor have I targeted trout in the reservoir (usually use BAIT in there), but it would not surprise me in the least if it was crawling with them. It is big enough, and deep enough to provide adequate trout habitat (though there is a significant population of toothy type critters around).

Have you caught trout in the reservoir? Regularly?

chubbdarter · #**1570** 03-28-2011, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

St. Mary is an interesting reservoir alright. I have suspected that a lot of what appears to be whitefish activity might actually be trout. I have not observed any directly, nor have I targeted trout in the reservoir (usually use BAIT in there), but it would not surprise me in the least if it was crawling with them. It is big enough, and deep enough to provide adequate trout habitat (though there is a significant population of toothy type critters around).

Have you caught trout in the reservoir? Regularly?

yes .....see alot on the camera too
i think the Gov is convinced the other unique fish is gone from his water way also

Im starting to wonder about the effect of toothy critters....i hate to keep bringing this up...but the americans do it everywhere.

a Idaho fisheries tech asked me once who was working on the state side of a sturgeon program.....would you plant perch and whitefish in a walleye , pike lake?
my initial reaction was no..........but i back peddled fast from my answer

goldscud · #**1571** 03-28-2011, 03:13 PM

It is interesting how far Bow River fish get through the system. We caught them in Badger on the fly rod more than 10 years ago

Speckle55 · #**1572** 03-28-2011, 03:39 PM

Pud.. hey i did 10 minutes research.. and those lakes u gave me are not lakes
also i will give u a run down on the others and let you know where the Brood hen go from Allison Creek Hatchery

These are the lakes that have had a 4 1/2to 5lb1/2(24 to 25inch) rainbow in at one time(caught) now i am not going into the catch rates etc .. even in your poll the last choice was C & R with a chance at a 25 inch trout
Keenex
Ressor
Mcvinnie
Mami(Payne) Hens put in

Ishootbambi said two of others did have

Ponds don,t count

Now the lakes Close to Hatchery that get stocked with hens are(not allways rainbows),, and they are others in differn,t zones by Differn,t Hatcherys

Nicolas
Sharron

there is one lake i think that you said that didn,t have a chance at a 25 inch Rainbow and i hav,nt check with my AFGA contacts

Ps Terry was very nice to talk to and a informing Bio .. Thanks Terry

If you have any other lakes that you want me to check if they have a Chance at a 25 inch Rainbow just ask i will check the records to see if there ever was a 25inch caught

Speckle55 · #**1573** 03-28-2011, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

Im not sure if i should be posting this info, but with the new construction i guess it doesnt matter.

Down where the water leaves Travers. There is one spillway that departs south as the little bow river eventully entering the Oldman river near Turin.....each and every spring i watch RBT try to climb the massive spillway. At the foot of the spillway are reds in the gravel.I used to see only acouple reds now they are overlapping
The other exit has water leaving Travers into a canal headed to Little Bow Res. At the tail waters of this chute dam is a clean gravel base. The rainbows spawn there and there is more and more every year. The suckers and whitefish congregate in high numbers...im guessing to consume the eggs.

I dont know if they are successful in their attempt to have offspring but they are diffinitely going thru the motions. And yes both male and female are ripe.

Also numerous friends are catching more and larger trout in Travers and LBR while they are fishing for perch.

Also when i go to watch the Walleye spawn i see alot of RBT in the tailings behind the walleye in the evenings,but not in the early am...i dont know why.

The part i find unusual is we dont hear about or see alot of Brown trout. My wife caught a 7lb brown on a ripplin red fin casting at night for walleyes.

I know everyone says it cant be done...because some book says it cant....all im reporting what i have seen with my own eyes. Not that im any kind of expert with formal training. All i have is that i grew up near Travers as a farm kid i could drive there on back roads since i was 9. I have many days on that lake and ive watched some amazing things happen.

There is another RES. that needs some thought....ST Marys. I have gotten to know this Res. very well also and i believe its full potenial is far from being used to its fulllest. Check its water source and it will provide you with some clues as to what im seeing there.

Hey what did you mean by this just asking? .. David

chubbdarter · #**1574** 03-28-2011, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Prud.. hey i did 10 minutes research.. and those lakes u gave me are not lakes
also i will give u a run down on the others and let you know where the Brood hen go from Allison Creek Hatchery

These are the lakes that have had a 4 1/2to 5lb1/2(24 to 25inch) rainbow in at one time(caught) now i am not going into the catch rates etc .. even in your poll the last choice was C & R with a chance at a 25 inch trout
Keenex
Ressor
Mcvinnie
Mami(Payne) Hens put in

Ishootbambi said two of others did have

Ponds don,t count

Now the lakes Close to Hatchery that get stocked with hens are(not allways rainbows),, and they are others in differn,t zones by Differn,t Hatcherys

Nicolas
Sharron

there is one lake i think that you said that didn,t have a chance at a 25 inch Rainbow and i hav,nt check with my AFGA contacts

Ps Terry was very nice to talk to and a informing Bio .. Thanks Terry

If you have any other lakes that you want me to check if they have a Chance at a 25 inch Rainbow just ask i will check the records to see if there ever was a 25inch caught

what is the true difference....between a pond and lake?
i have fished all of the above waters.

Do you show records for Lehtos?

huntsfurfish · #**1575** 03-28-2011, 04:08 PM

Hey Spec,

Betcha there were few if any, recently.

And that is the whole point.

Lots of people in this area travel to Duck for trout. But with all the ponds, lakes and reservoirs around here, they shouldnt have to.

Would these people still go to Duck Lake(US) if they had some more quallity fisheries here. Some still might but Id bet many wouldnt!

Most people only go as far as they have to, dont you think?

Dont think counting brood stock really qualifies in this instance but that is JMHO.

Speckle55 · #**1576** 03-28-2011, 04:16 PM

Chubb... i think it is the size but it may be a combo... just ph 3100000 and ask for your local fishery bio he will answer that issue..

on that other lake is there a Bio close ask him/her and if you have a Fish and Game club near area ask the fish chair or who is one of the best they should know if any have been ever caught there..remember that is the History/Potenical of a Lake .. that is near you

so when i went looking for a big Pike(Fickle) i went to the lake with those H/P same for Brook Trout(Maligne).. and then Rivers.. Rocky Mountain Whitefish(Athabasca/Snaring) then guys here that are keying are that too 30inch plus Bulls .. 5lb plus brookies /20 plus pike/ ..

but in the end for a first time ice fishing angler(she) that 1 lb Lake Whitefish in 15 seconds from sitting down.. is PRICELESS.. and all the rest of what fishing is/friends /good times/etc etc

Speckle55 · #**1577** 03-28-2011, 04:23 PM

Duck Lake Montana is a big lake that is Catch and Keep lake and has 4 to 10 lbers .. the guide practise C&R but you are allowed to keep and i think it is in a chain of lakes they stock 4 to 8 inches ever year and is managed by Tribe

chubbdarter · #**1578** 03-28-2011, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Hey what did you mean by this just asking? .. David

just my observations....nothing more.
Im thinking outside the box.....i refuse to think a bunch of dedicated fisherman cant come up with a plan that is acceptable to MOST.
The purpose of any discusion is to find the best options. Maybe we can find a solution in left field.
If each side wont budge then it will be left to a higher power and im not so comfortable with that.
One side says leave it alone.....in my mind thats not constructive or open to improvment.
The other side wants changes, if its a way to improve thefishery and not leave everyone out of the picture....we should consider it.

Just a thought......but just because some one claims good fishing for 20 inch fish ....should we not consider the thought of bigger and better 30 inch fish.?

Your dead when you stop learning

huntsfurfish · #**1579** 03-28-2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

just my observations....nothing more.
Im thinking outside the box.....i refuse to think a bunch of dedicated fisherman cant come up with a plan that is acceptable to MOST.
The purpose of any discusion is to find the best options. Maybe we can find a solution in left field.
If each side wont budge then it will be left to a higher power and im not so comfortable with that.
One side says leave it alone.....in my mind thats not constructive or open to improvment.
The other side wants changes, if its a way to improve thefishery and not leave everyone out of the picture....we should consider it.

Just a thought......but just because some one claims good fishing for 20 inch fish ....should we not consider the thought of bigger and better 30 inch fish.?

Your dead when you stop learning

Well said CD

Sundancefisher · #**1580** 03-28-2011, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Duck Lake Montana is a big lake that is Catch and Keep lake and has 4 to 10 lbers .. the guide practise C&R but you are allowed to keep and i think it is in a chain of lakes they stock 4 to 8 inches ever year and is managed by Tribe

Have you even fished it before or recently or just surfing the net?

Sundancefisher · #**1581** 03-28-2011, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speckle55

ask for your local fishery bio he will answer that issue..

Specks...did you ask Terry about the rationale or benefits behind quality lakes?

If not...call him back and ask him his opinion as our regional fisheries biologist.

Sundancefisher · #**1582** 03-28-2011, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Pud.. hey i did 10 minutes research.. and those lakes u gave me are not lakes
also i will give u a run down on the others and let you know where the Brood hen go from Allison Creek Hatchery

These are the lakes that have had a 4 1/2to 5lb1/2(24 to 25inch) rainbow in at one time(caught) now i am not going into the catch rates etc .. even in your poll the last choice was C & R with a chance at a 25 inch trout
Keenex
Ressor
Mcvinnie
Mami(Payne) Hens put in

Ishootbambi said two of others did have

Ponds don,t count

Now the lakes Close to Hatchery that get stocked with hens are(not allways rainbows),, and they are others in differn,t zones by Differn,t Hatcherys

Nicolas
Sharron

there is one lake i think that you said that didn,t have a chance at a 25 inch Rainbow and i hav,nt check with my AFGA contacts

Ps Terry was very nice to talk to and a informing Bio .. Thanks Terry

If you have any other lakes that you want me to check if they have a Chance at a 25 inch Rainbow just ask i will check the records to see if there ever was a 25inch caught

Why are you hung up on brood stock versus clean trout that have grown big in a lake? Brood stock are nearing heart attach age...are dumb...eat anything and taste like pellets. They hardly fight...and seriously...if you put 5 8 lb brood trout in Allen Bill Pond...how many minutes would they last before harvest? And does your Fish and Game club take brood stock as registered "big fish" bragging rights catches?

Speckle55 · #**1583** 03-28-2011, 04:39 PM

[QUOTE=huntsfurfish;885207]Hey Spec,

Betcha there were few if any, recently.

And that is the whole point.

Lots of people in this area travel to Duck for trout. But with all the ponds, lakes and reservoirs around here, they shouldnt have to.

Would these people still go to Duck Lake(US) if they had some more quallity fisheries here. Some still might but Id bet many wouldnt!

Most people only go as far as they have to, dont you think?

Dont think counting brood stock really qualifies in this instance but that is JMHO.[/QUOTE]

stocked 5 to 8 inches

stocked 24 to 26 inches

and someone posted that a fish was brood hen just ph Bio and ask if they did a hen release in that lake don,t assume anything get the facts

Speckle55 · #**1584** 03-28-2011, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Have you even fished it before or recently or just surfing the net?

5 seconds on net and you point is ..?

Speckle55 · #**1585** 03-28-2011, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

Well said CD

Did you read post by ishootbambi on life of your trout in your area (Terry Bio)

Duck lake is big high mountain lake right (cold lake)

huntsfurfish · #**1586** 03-28-2011, 04:56 PM

Which one(post) was that spec

Speckle55 · #**1587** 03-28-2011, 04:59 PM

A fish caught on a fishing caught in a Alberta lake/pond/river etc under Alberta regs.. is good with your signature date and place caught girth and length on a reg scale

then we want to take stomach and DNA sample and we use a microscope to see where it was caught..we swab the throat to look for lead in stomach and we check to see if it was caught in gill net.. then i do a satellite .. google search to see if you were at the lake you said you were at and take a picture that and add it to your entrie form..

hope that answer your question

huntsfurfish · #**1588** 03-28-2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

Hey Spec,

Betcha there were few if any, recently.

And that is the whole point.
Lots of people in this area travel to Duck for trout. But with all the ponds, lakes and reservoirs around here, they shouldnt have to.

Would these people still go to Duck Lake(US) if they had some more quallity fisheries here. Some still might but Id bet many wouldnt!

Most people only go as far as they have to, dont you think?

Dont think counting brood stock really qualifies in this instance but that is JMHO.

Spec I think you are missing the point

huntsfurfish · #**1589** 03-28-2011, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speckle55

A fish caught on a fishing caught in a Alberta lake/pond/river etc under Alberta regs.. is good with your signature date and place caught girth and length on a reg scale

then we want to take stomach and DNA sample and we use a microscope to see where it was caught..we swab the throat to look for lead in stomach and we check to see if it was caught in gill net.. then i do a satellite .. google search to see if you were at the lake you said you were at and take a picture that and add it to your entrie form..

hope that answer your question

Ok

Speckle55 · #**1590** 03-28-2011, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

actually, according to terry clayton, the southern area fisheries biologist, bullshead trout will top out pretty close to where they are. he says their lifespan is such that 25 inch 6 pound fish are at the end of their lives and anglers may just as well keep them as they will die naturally soon anyway. i grilled him about exactly what you are saying Pud, and thats the answer he gave me. bullshead is not a highly productive lake......now imagine if cavan had those kind of restrictions....

also, if you know a trick or two and time your fishing trip right, 100 plus fish days are not out of the question. in our family last season, robin had the biggest bullshead fish. it was a whisker over 25 inches and id estimate weight right at 6 pounds. it got to the boat just as a wicked dump of hail began to pound us so we got her in the water asap and got to shore......no pic.

also huntsfurfish....if you care, notice i quoted, but deleted the part of the quote that was not what i responded to. not being an arse, just trying to help.

bump