Thoughts on copper bullets?

[vantheman]

There are some rumours that lead bullets can lead to health problems in humans and wildlife etc. What are your thoughts on this?

Has anyone tried using copper and if so how do they perform in comparison?

[TomCanuck]

I think the issue is mostly about water fowl, and people who spend a lot of time in shooting ranges. Children are more susceptible to lead poisoning as well. Washing hands after reloading sessions is the only thing I do wrt lead.

[Vingiu]

Alas, even the hunting community isn't safe from the environmentalist movement....

Seriously though, I'm not worried about it. The bullet isn't in the body long enough to start causing any issues.

[Ryry4]

I've had good luck with lead and copper. The key is a good quality bullet. The Barnes TTSX did the trick on this ram last November.



As far as health concerns go, I believe Boone and Crockett did a study a few years ago and found that there were traceable amounts of lead from lead bullets fragmenting. I would assume that if you used a good bonded bullet the amounts would go down.

Lead bullets have been linked to deaths of California Condors in the US.

[vantheman]

Originally Posted by MiDaLeonardo

Alas, even the hunting community isn't safe from the environmentalist movement....

As far as I'm concerned we're an integral part of this movement...

[sns2]

Eating lead is not good. How much you actually ingest, and whether this constitutes a significant risk, is what is in question.

I'm gonna give Barnes TTSX a try this fall, in part because of the lead in meat aspect. Plus, they shoot like a hot-damn out of my gun.

Each to his own.

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by sns2

Eating lead is not good. How much you actually ingest, and whether this constitutes a significant risk, is what is in question.

I'm gonna give Barnes TTSX a try this fall, in part because of the lead in meat aspect. Plus, they shoot like a hot-damn out of my gun.

Each to his own.

I think you're not going to use the meat that is damaged from the wound channel. As such lead in hunting bullets is not an issue of real concern. I'd be more worried about eating fish given the effect of bio-magnification and agricultural runoff.

[dpoisson]

I used etips and they work well!

30-06 180gr

[Scott N]

I haven't tried the TTSX bullets yet, but I've been using the TSX bullets since 2004 and find that they work just as advertised i.e. holding together, good accuracy, good penetration.

[Vingiu]

Originally Posted by vantheman

As far as I'm concerned we're an integral part of this movement...

I would agree with you. We have a responsibility to manage the wilderness effectively. But in terms of putting lead fragments into the environment.... I don't have a problem with that. Lead rounds have generally been the standard since firearms were first brought about (iron and steel shot excluded). My point is that we can only be so careful at the end of the day. I pick up my empties, and I make sure I'm not eating any meat that may be spoiled. But honestly, what more can I do?

Since we're not talking about biomagnification issues (specifically, fish and waterfowl), I'll leave that out of it. Hunting big game with lead bullets is fine, in my opinion. It's a different story when we're putting lead in the water.

[Andrzej]

Originally Posted by vantheman

There are some rumours that lead bullets can lead to health problems in humans and wildlife etc. What are your thoughts on this?

Has anyone tried using copper and if so how do they perform in comparison?

Check those links.

This is third part of three parts YouTube presentation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdKlu...eature=related

Read this

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0005330

As to performance newest lead free bullets are very accurate and have deepest penetration.

Link to performance on goat is below 150 gr Barnes TTSX.Skip to 1 minute
http://youtu.be/37JwmSOQ3pY

This is Barnes TSX 180 gr after penetrating 30" of MD



We only hunt with lead free bullets due to performance.

Some will follow with comments, that you don't eat wound channel,(meat for those study was processed by professional butchers and meat from donations was given by hunters that were certain that they don't eat wound channels and 30-50 % samples had lead fragments)
Others will chime in that lead kills and killed for so long.
Yes it did but lead fragmentation study are relatively new 2008 and since then I and my hunting partners use only lead free bullets for hunting.
Serving venison I know that is organic and lead free.

And 1/2 inch 5 shot 100 y group with Barnes TTSX 180 gr out off 300 WM is another reason for my choice.

[ShawnM]

Originally Posted by Andrzej

...And 1/2 inch 5 shot 100 y group with Barnes TTSX 180 gr out off 300 WM is another reason for my choice.

And accuracy is the reason I am not using Barnes. Can't get decent grouping from the suckers.

[Andrzej]

And some more
Bullet on the left 225 TTSX from 338 Win Mag 520y cow Elk.


150 TTSX 30-06 WT Buck frontal shot 30" penetration


Blue for hunting Red for plinking

[FallAirFever]

I have a couple buddies going lead free with Barnes TSX in their 30-06's. I will see how things go with those as far as getting decent groupings etc...


Has anyone gone with the Hornady GMX for lead free and its SST for target shooting this combo intrests me as I dont really like the price tag of unleaded bullets for plinking!

[Andrzej]

Originally Posted by ShawnM

And accuracy is the reason I am not using Barnes. Can't get decent grouping from the suckers.

I could not get original Barnes X to group but since TSX no problems with accuracy.

More and more companies develop monometal bullets I'm itching to try
GS Custom products.
They have 1100 gr 50 Cal bullet with BC 1.85 !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJFMGfUsrko At about 1min 30 sec in.

[Andrzej]

Originally Posted by FallAirFever

I have a couple buddies going lead free with Barnes TSX in their 30-06's. I will see how things go with those as far as getting decent groupings etc...


Has anyone gone with the Hornady GMX for lead free and its SST for target shooting this combo intrests me as I dont really like the price tag of unleaded bullets for plinking!

I've tried 150 GMX in my 30-06 but did not get enough velocity using same components as for TTSX. I have good, the same load for 3 30-06 that we mostly hunt with so I did not play with GMX to much.
And as for price difference ... there is no difference.

And yes all my plinking is with SSTs.

And if you use GMX with red tip and SST with red tip ??? Might be hard to see the difference when having attack of Buck fever.

[FallAirFever]

Originally Posted by Andrzej

I've tried 150 GMX in my 30-06 but did not get enough velocity using same components as for TTSX. I have good, the same load for 3 30-06 that we mostly hunt with so I did not play with GMX to much.
And as for price difference ... there is no difference.

And yes all my plinking is with SSTs.

And if you use GMX with red tip and SST with red tip ??? Might be hard to see the difference when having attack of Buck fever.

One day you are going to have to let my buy you a beverage and I can pick your brain on sausage makeing and un-leaded bullets!!

[Andrzej]

Originally Posted by FallAirFever

One day you are going to have to let my buy you a beverage and I can pick your brain on sausage makeing and un-leaded bullets!!

With pleasure.

[TBark]

I have about 30 of the coated Barnes XLC's left then I will be using the TTSX.
So ya, lead free for me.

TBark

[lyallpeder]

I used 150gr ttsx in my .308 this year on a white tail and was happy. The groups were good but I ran out of case volume because my rifle has a small "ejection port" so I need to make my rounds 2.755" rather than the 2.810" the book suggested.

[TomCanuck]

http://www.nrahuntersrights.org/LeadIssues.aspx

I don't think lead poses a SIGNIFICANT risk to human health when used in hunting bullets.

[covey ridge]

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/2969364...an+17+2013.pdf

Got this sent to me a couple days ago. Don't know what to make of it? Sorry if it is allready been posted.

[M70]

Practicing with the TSX is a little too expensive for me. I normally practice with the tried and true Gamekings but come hunting season, I only have to make a few scope adjustments to be able to use the TSX. I find their in-flight and terminal performance to be pretty impressive. Being lead free is a bonus.

[Andrzej]

Originally Posted by TomCanuck

http://www.nrahuntersrights.org/LeadIssues.aspx

I don't think lead poses a SIGNIFICANT risk to human health when used in hunting bullets.

Did you red this article to the end ?

You missed last sentence from cited article recommendations

• Pregnant women and children under six have been cautioned not to ingest any lead at all for years.

My venison is fed to two Grandis 2y one and 2m one so no lead is no brainer.

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by Andrzej

Did you red this article to the end ?

You missed last sentence from cited article recommendations

• Pregnant women and children under six have been cautioned not to ingest any lead at all for years.

My venison is fed to two Grandis 2y one and 2m one so no lead is no brainer.

Some what alarmist in my view, as there has never been a case of lead poisoning attributed to the consumption of wild game. You can bet there are plenty of kids grow up on game. Most people don't eat that much. Most kids who get toxic levels of lead have been poor kids exposed to lead paint in older buildings.

As for the wikipedia citation, again some what alarmist, as the CDC has published a limit.

That said, lead is toxic, so there is certainly no harm in taking steps to reduce exposure to it. It's just not a critical issue in my view, practically speaking.

[gitrdun]

Andrzej, dang, I always have problems with your alias name I know that you are a big supporter of lead free bullets, and that is cool. But, in all my years of hunting, I've always used lead core bullets. As necessity calls upon to clean out the wound channel due to shock and damage, the wound channel has always been removed. My kids, wife and myself have been eating my quarries for many years and none of us have had any health issues that could be related to lead ingestion. Barnes bullets although known to be accurate by some reports, in my findings are finicky. Sierra, my go to bullets which are all lead core, come in superbly without much load development. On the bench scenario, gimme a Sierra and the rest follow behind. The feedback that I've received from other shooters is that Sierra rules on the accuracy game, but lack as far as their terminal performance. For me, that hasn't been the case. My game has fallen to both Sierra GameKings and Hornady lead core bullets within reasonable expectations.

I should add that I've given Barnes bullets a fair chance in terms of accuracy. And, I can achieve such accuracy or repeatedness, but it takes work.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by FallAirFever

One day you are going to have to let my buy you a beverage and I can pick your brain on sausage makeing and un-leaded bullets!!

I wonder if a "beverage" is better for you than eating the south end of an Elk shot on the north end with a leaded bullet?

[elkhunter11]

I have had great success with the Barnes TSX/TTSX/MRX on game, and all three have proven to be quite accurate in my rifles. My latest Cooper in 7mmSTW averaged .85" at 200 yards, last summer after some very quick load development. All of the rifles that I tried these bullets in averaged better than 3/4moa.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by chuck

I wonder if a "beverage" is better for you than eating the south end of an Elk shot on the north end with a leaded bullet?

And I wonder what you're subliminal message is meant to a friend of mine is exactly Chuck. Is it any wonder that friends can meet over a beer and discuss such things because all you have is "dead" friends or NO friends?

[Andrzej]

I've been eating lead shot venison all my adult life and when we came to Canada deer sausage and deer peperoni was what my kids grew up on, all shot with Corelocts cup and lead core bullets.

I think that my generation,and many AOF members, grew in relatively healthy environment with crops that newer were treated with Roundup and such and cow manure would be used as only fertilizer. No GMO and other crap.

Who heard about allergies, asthma, autism, ADD and so on...we are leaving in times that food is not what used to be. Meat industry is proud that today they can make 300 kg of processed ham from 100 kg of pork. Using 1200 different approved additives.

I am making my own sausage, ham, Canadian bacon for the same reason that I hunt, to have food as pure as possible.
Lead is not part of healthy diet and one that I can eliminate. I spend more for food that is mark Canadian, organic, pesticide , insecticide and heavy metal free.
I spend more for lead free bullets.

Those days human bodies are so overwhelmed with all chemicals that might not cope with another toxic agent that is avoidable.