Brian Knight legal defence fund

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by bigd

Before any of you or any member of the public or media sit here and criticize the policing community yet again, gun up and try doing the job yourself.

Oh yeah, if you haven't figured it out yet, I'm a cop...

D

Most of us know the police's hands are tied and they do what they can. However Knowing quite a few cops over the years and having a brother who is retired RCMP I have sat and listened to them over coffee for many years and they sound just like the rest of us do, wanting more jails and prosecutors, and complaining the judges let everyone off with a slap on the wrist. One thing I have noticed they don't do is lobby the politicians, the police associations go along and support every damn thing the politicians want and do not support their own cause of getting the criminals off the streets. Most police know that the gun registry is a joke and a waste of their time and taxpayer money but when it comes down to it the police bow under and support stuff like this. Sometimes the police are their own worst enemies. When will the police stand up for themselves and quit kissing the politicians and politically appointed nitwits asses that run the RCMP and local municipal police representatives just to make sure they get promoted and get next years budget goodies. The Canadian police association is a joke and I no longer donate a red cent to them. Why are the police not petitioning and protesting on parliament hill. When a member of a police force get killed in the line of duty they appear in mass wearing their red serges and uniforms. If they put that much effort to lobby the politicians maybe they might not have to assemble for so many police funerals.

[rugatika]

You know, I never thought of it that way. I too always felt the police had their arms tied and really couldn't do anything about criminals that went to trial and then walked, and yes I've talked to police that were just as frustrated as I was about that situation too.

But, Bushrat makes an excellent point. If the police associations started lobbying gov't and making statements to the media about what a crock of crap things like short sentences, suspended sentences and so on were, then we might see action on these things.

Be interesting to hear your take on this BIGD. Also how do you feel about all the police associations that "support" the gun registry? I know one officer who thinks it's an outrage that civilians are allowed to own guns at all.

Thanks for your input. Good to hear from a police officer on this and other issues and I hope you continue to offer your opinion on this and other matters on this board.

As to increasing prosecutorial funding...maybe we would need less funding for this area if criminals actually went to jail and served out an extended sentence rather than keep coming back through the system over and over.


Rug

[Got Juice?]

I believe in my country, and I believe in Canada. I do not believe in our court system. This is a precis of what happened to me a couple years ago.

So here is the scenario back in 2004

I am at work today performing my duties and at 1240 pm today, while dealing with a customer there is a man, 25 or so shouting profanities at people on the street and threatening them. He scares an older couple (65 or so ) off the sidewalk and right into oncoming traffic!! http://www.nwbombers.com/iB_html/non.../angryfire.gif Then he starts beating on a new Dodge 300M parked in front of my shop (my clients car to boot!) My customer then says i am gonna talk to him, and i said no bloody way, i am gonna go out there.. you stay inside. So i very calmly and respectfully ask him to leave the premises and he walks up 2 inches from being nose to nose and tells me he is gonna take me the F out...and SHOVES ME!!!! http://www.nwbombers.com/iB_html/non.../angryfire.gif ok... calmly juice... you gave this violence stuff up long ago.... i take a deep breath and inform him that he should leave or i will call the RCMP. HE SHOVES ME AGAIN! OK...no problems, i walk inside the shop to call the cops and HE SHOVES ME AGAIN! ok.... now my mother and 10 other people have witnessed this event and my Mom is shocked....she knows my temper and has a pretty good idea of what i am capable of, but instead, i turn away from him and move towards the phone, when out of the corner of my eye, i see it coming... a fist this time.... so i duck the punch, spin and (i am lef handed ) hit him open handed Aikido style in the center of his chest above the 3rd and 4th rib, grab him in a submission hold and drop to the ground landing on top of him.... next thing i knew i had help in restraining him (3 of us in all) my knee in his necks, james knee on his neck and both of us had his arms very well subdued (almost to the breaking point)
Took 2 cops to get him in the car.....they took everyone's statement (but mine Uh-Oh) and left... 1 hour later i had a statement prepared and went 'downtown' to deliver it (their request... i didn't volunteer and it wasn't exactly a request either) To make a long story short he has a 9" black bruise on his chest, he went into an arrest because of where and how i hit him) and is trying to charge me for assault causing bodily harm ...excessive use of force etc ad nauseum.
Fun Day Eh?
I gave up violence long ago, but when it comes to Family , Friends or me, and someone is threatening them....well, let's just say i get a little upset.... good thing i did not hit him with my strong hand..... FWIW i guess that could have been fatal worse yet he was on coke and has Hepatitis c as well (although thankfully i only suffered some scrapes from the takedown and a broken bloodvessel in my hand from the strike!
So now we will see if it is a court of law or a court of justice!
God Help Me!
Any comments, feel free to let loose!


The end result was that I got a complimentary 2 hr interview with the RC's about my 'combat training' turns out the guy had 'died' a couple times in the ambulance on the way to the hospital.

Worst part of the scenario (besides yours truly being treated like a criminal) was that he had previous warrants for arrest out on him, and he STILL ONLY served 1 year in jail!
(Drugs making him temporarily insane of course.. what a defence)

I believe Mr. Knight acted in the manner of protecting him and his family, setting a precedent for the thieves that MAYBE they won't target him next time they need to steal to support their habit.

Reasonable force will come into question, and on that account, Mr.Knight will unfortunately lose that legal test. That doesn't mean I don't sympathize with what he did, it's just the way the law is written.

Personally, I don't even bat an eye. An Armed society is a Polite society. An UNARMED society is a SUBJECT society. Subject to getting robbed, Subject to being murdered.... you get the idea.

[AxeMan]

Originally Posted by bigd

Before any of you or any member of the public or media sit here and criticize the policing community yet again, gun up and try doing the job yourself.
D

This is kind of what Brian Knight did.....no?

Seriously though, BigD, what you say is mostly true. I talked to my federal MP (Laurie Hawn) last week about what they are doing about toughening up our crime laws. After all, they use the slogan: "getting tough on crime". He said that the number one complaint to him in this riding from constituents is the lack of tough property crime laws. He admitted that nothing is being done and nothing is likely to get done. He said that the fact they are a minority government and that the Liberals oppose all crime law ammendments makes the process of reform impossible. Sad reality, don't you think? I would say that the Liberal supporters in this country are the ones that have to lobby their politicians if anything is to change. I see this problem spiraling into chaos before there is change in this country. Sad but true.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Got Juice?

Worst part of the scenario

The webpage cannot be found

[Cooeylover]

Cause it goes on and on my friends,
some people started writing it not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue writing forever just because.............

This is the thread that never ends!!!!!

I made my dontation to the Mr Knight fund and signed the petition.

[hal53]

Believe me folks, i have a few friends who are RCMP.....they are more frustrated than we are....it's ridiculous....I have no particular political affiliation. but the PC's tried passing a lot of reforms. SH finally got ****ed off and tabled them as a confidence vote, where the Lib's didn't show up ( HEY BUD!!!! WHERE WAS A****E AND HIS CREW?????)...so it goes thru' the house and gets stalled in the Liberal dominated Senate....most of them couldn't stay awake long enough for the vote!!!!.......don't blame the police.....try walking ,...not a mile...100 yards in their boots at 0400 hrs.

[CaberTosser]

I was happy to see a petition and donation box at the Calgary Easter show. I put in more $$ there than I did for the raffle tickets at the CSSA or AHIEA.

[Redfrog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkWgp2abM2w

[Danno]

The problem isn't necessarily that the police are doing a bad job, but it is impossible for them to be everywhere at once. Police are good at solving crimes after they happen, but in rural areas especially, they cannot prevent them. If people on farms have to rely on the police for protection, they have no real protection at all and are easy targets for criminals.

[Cooeylover]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkWgp2abM2w

Thats a great story! Thanks for posting it.

[rosalindite7]

people, people, people!! Are you saying that all kids are bad. I am only a teenager and Why am I on here? Cause i like the outdoors and stuff. Not stealing stuff. So not all kids are bad, right.

[Janitor Pants]

Originally Posted by rosalindite7

people, people, people!! Are you saying that all kids are bad. I am only a teenager and Why am I on here? Cause i like the outdoors and stuff. Not stealing stuff. So not all kids are bad, right.

Who said anything about kids? We're talking about scumbags, which come in all ages.

[Knownonscents]

Originally Posted by rosalindite7

people, people, people!! Are you saying that all kids are bad. I am only a teenager and Why am I on here? Cause i like the outdoors and stuff. Not stealing stuff. So not all kids are bad, right.

You must have missinterpreted a post here, as I recall nobody said that. Most of us here have kids and the ones that dont are much like yourself. It doesn't matter what age these thievin little bastards are, they coulda been 14 or 40. I just hope, if they reach 40 they will have learned from this. It'll be hard to teach them a lesson though, if Mr. knight gets convicted........

Normally, most of us agree, not all kids are bad.Just bad at listening.

[rosalindite7]

i think i misread a post

[bigd]

Originally Posted by rugatika

You know, I never thought of it that way. I too always felt the police had their arms tied and really couldn't do anything about criminals that went to trial and then walked, and yes I've talked to police that were just as frustrated as I was about that situation too.

But, Bushrat makes an excellent point. If the police associations started lobbying gov't and making statements to the media about what a crock of crap things like short sentences, suspended sentences and so on were, then we might see action on these things.

Be interesting to hear your take on this BIGD. Also how do you feel about all the police associations that "support" the gun registry? I know one officer who thinks it's an outrage that civilians are allowed to own guns at all.

Thanks for your input. Good to hear from a police officer on this and other issues and I hope you continue to offer your opinion on this and other matters on this board.

As to increasing prosecutorial funding...maybe we would need less funding for this area if criminals actually went to jail and served out an extended sentence rather than keep coming back through the system over and over.


Rug

Police are prohibited from voicing publicly any opposition (or support) for anything political or having to do with anything duty related. The RCMP does not have an 'association' or union or whatever you want to call it- prohibited by law and the RCMP Act...

Regarding the issue of funding, it's a catch 22. More funding is needed to create more jail space to put criminals where they belong, which should in theory free up time for prosecutors to more effectively deal with investigational files. Until this happens, they need more money to hire competent help with the caseloads they are now burdened with. Either way, it all adds up to more $$- which is getting harder to come by lately...

bigd

It has become necessary for every farmer and acreage owner to own a backhoe, be a marksman and have good low light optics.

[rosalindite7]

GITRDUN you are awesome

[IR_mike]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

It has become necessary for every farmer and acreage owner to own a backhoe, be a marksman and have good low light optics.

True, true Words of wisdom gitrdun

[lazeejjs]

Albertans have an excellent crime prevention source in Rural Crime Watch. British Columbia experiences problems similar to those Brian Knight and other ruralists. We've found considerable muscle with Rural Crime Watch www.ruralcrimewatch.com that operates at arm's length from the police.

[overkill 19]

Brians court date is jan 14th 10 am, I'll be there to support Brian. Please attend if you feel the same! THX

[Lonnie]

it may not warrant shot in the back of the head jester but it does warrant some sort of action as thieves can steal from you in this country and get away with it more times than knot but even if a cop catches them in the act they get a $400 dollar fine. they steal $10.000 to $40.000 worth of stuff.that is alot less than paying income taxs.and a whole lot less work these type of people have done this so much that they are away ahead of the game. and the first thing most cops ask when you report a theft well didn't you a have incurrance on it, they act like the theif did you a favor. its know wonder that people are getting alittle up set with the sytem the you get some bleeding hart idiot saying those poor kids and it truns out those poor kids are 33yrs.old and have never worked a day in there life. so if a few of them get shot to dam bad, but that seems to be what it is going to take to get the court system to start handing down stiffer sentances. as it stands now crime does definitly pays very well.

[Selkirk]

Quite a hot topic here Folks ... and lots of 'hot-headed' posts as well!

In spite of what many have said here, we "do" have the legal right to defend our property (and ourselves) ... but only within reason. We do not have the right to turn ourselves into 'Judge, Jury, and Punisher' (a.k.a. a vigilante).

I don't profess to know all the details of what happened that night, but from what I understand, Brian Knight was within his legal rights to use 'reasonable' force to try and stop the theft, and to try and recover his property from the thieves. Unfortunately, Brian Knight crossed the line when he pulled out his gun and shot the unarmed thief who was attempting to run away, empty handed, on foot.

The law is quite clear on these matters;

Defence of Property: http://lawbrain.com/wiki/Defense_of_property
Self Defence: http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictiona...lfDefence.aspx

I won't be donating to Brian Knight's defence fund (he went too far when he pulled the trigger), but I am hoping the Judge will go easy on him ... hopefully, he'll just be put on probation for while.

TF

[Roughneck Country]

There was a case like this similar in SK a few years back only the farmer tagged the tail gate of the pick up to mark it, no one was injured.The thieves got off with nothing the farmer got dragged through the ringer and I believe house arrest for a year if I remember correctly.

I think if you feel you have the right to rob someone you should also have the right to potentially forfeit your life. I bet the amount of stupid crimes like this would drop if the potential sentence was death by 12 gauge! In the US these clowns would have been shot on site no questions asked and the property owner would have been justified. Anyway enough of my rant, I am just tired of criminals getting away with this stuff!

[dgl1948]

Police are prohibited from voicing publicly any opposition (or support) for anything political

That did not stop the Police Chiefs when it came to Bill C368

Remember that the police do not create laws or hand down punishments for breaking laws. They only enforce laws. They gather whatever evidence is available and present it to the Crown. The courts- judges and lawyers (crown and defence) and our governments are responsible for the system breaking down as it has. So many criminals are getting off lightly because the system is overloaded. Not enough prosecutors, not enough space in remand centers, not enough money to afford to put criminals away like they deserve. We give criminals 2 for 1 credit for time spent in remand waiting for trial or case resolution. We have Justices of the Peace that appear to be under instruction to ensure that only the most dangerous criminals be sent to remand. They award cash bail (or even no-cash bail) to many that should not be released pending trial. Ä great number of these that are released are given conditions to abide by and usually are found in breach within a few days of release. These are usually the criminals that commit property crimes to support drug addictions and to fund gang activities.

If we want to begin to fix these issues (property crimes as related to this thread), we need to make wholesale changes at the federal and provincial level. We need room to take convicted criminals of the street. We need support from the citizens of Canada to lobby the feds to allow the courts to strengthen jail sentences. We need cash injected in the prosecutorial system. both to increase the numbers of prosecutors as well as the quality. In some judicial districts in rural Alberta, 3 or 4 prosecutors will handle in excess of 15,000- 18,000 criminal charges per year!!! It's no wonder so many deals get made in court and so many criminals are back on the street to continue their ways

If the Police Chiefs would stand up and fight for some of these changes as hard as they fought against C368 we may get somewhere. They seemed to be vary vocal with supporting the registry that only effects the law abiding citizen and does nothing to stop the real problems we are having.

Bigd, these comments are not directed at you, I feel for the front line people that have to deal with the same individuals over and over again because the courts do not.

[antlercarver]

Camshaft posted it is up to the court to decide guilt. I don"t think we need a court to tell anyone that the 3 guys in the middle of the night taking someones quad or truck were innocent or guilty.
Road kill suggested that every thing should be chained,cabled with locks, well on the farm I would need at least 50-60 keys. One of the few things that are locked up are the guns. If I try to lock up a cow out in the pasture where do you suggest I put the lock ? What a bass ackwards system.

[antlercarver]

In above post I forgot to mention I would need 50-60 keys for each of my neighbors because they come over to do some welding in my shop or borrow a pail of hydraulic fluid for a quick repair during good harvest weather or even take a tractor to pull a stuck machine. They do this if I"m home or not and I do the same. We help and support each other. We have to when you are far from town. I guess we are also far from the RCMP

[overkill 19]

Originally Posted by TriggerFinger

Quite a hot topic here Folks ... and lots of 'hot-headed' posts as well!

In spite of what many have said here, we "do" have the legal right to defend our property (and ourselves) ... but only within reason. We do not have the right to turn ourselves into 'Judge, Jury, and Punisher' (a.k.a. a vigilante).

I don't profess to know all the details of what happened that night, but from what I understand, Brian Knight was within his legal rights to use 'reasonable' force to try and stop the theft, and to try and recover his property from the thieves. Unfortunately, Brian Knight crossed the line when he pulled out his gun and shot the unarmed thief who was attempting to run away, empty handed, on foot.

The law is quite clear on these matters;

Defence of Property: http://lawbrain.com/wiki/Defense_of_property
Self Defence: http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictiona...lfDefence.aspx

I won't be donating to Brian Knight's defence fund (he went too far when he pulled the trigger), but I am hoping the Judge will go easy on him ... hopefully, he'll just be put on probation for while.

TF

I believe people should only make judgment or comments when they do know all the facts. Do you know how the thief was discovered, do you know how the thief stole the truck that night???? Do you really know how this clown terrorized this family while trying to make a living. What if I came to your job and terrorized you, your wife and kid. Then the next time they had to go out and do their chores, which they thourly enjoyed doing prior, now they do it in tears and fear. As quit often they do these tasks at night. Sorry dont mean to jump on ya, but just trying to keep the FACTS on the table.

[pogo]

Originally Posted by Jester

Shooting at someone if your life is in danger is one thing..

Shooting at someone who stole your quad is attempted murder.

Ok then...let the hate begin..

Don't you have a birthday comng up?

[pogo]

Originally Posted by redneck posse

if the intruder has a knife resonable force is beating the snot out of him with a baseballbat. deadly force is useing a knife or a more powerfull weapon.

A deadly force can be applied with a necktie, a baseball bat, a good pen, or with one hand.