Keep Your Dog Leashed in Banff National Park... or else.

[curtisb]

Hey Guys;

I was watching the CGY news last night and they mentioned that SRD has placed game cameras throughout the Banff National park. Originally intended for research purposes; have now caught poeple committing offenses. Things like: dogs - off leash, people hiking on trails marked closed. In some cases; apparently there are charges pending and people being charged for such things.

I think this is not only rediculous, but hilarious. They are even thinking of upping the numbers of cameras.

Just thought I'd post it to see if any outdoorsmen were thinking similar things?
*But in the meantime... heaven forbin you let your dog s#it in the bush (out in the middle of no where), because you may have a ticket in the mail, with your smiling face and your furry friend squatting!!! haha

[Lefty-Canuck]

Big Brother and Nanny are watching us all.....

LC

[ishootbambi]

makes sense to me. the only dogs allowed to crap there are foxes, coyotes and wolves......

[roger]

I 'lost' some aluminum planks that i was gonna use for garage shelving..so I wondered if trail cam manufacturers have a 'domesticated' version or housing which would look like a bird house, garden gnome, or plant pot.
perhaps the two legged coyotes that enter the yard will be caught.
this way the camera can work for all seasons and who nose, maybe it will help the LEO's one day if you have a B+E. with all the black infrared and wireless options avaialable it would be a cinch to configure, especially in urban settings.
Plus if you have to sneak this by the wife, its a win win!
because the criminals off-season (as we all know) is august-through december when all this gear could be used for scouting.
Im waaay to smrat sometimes!

[duffy4]

Originally Posted by curtisb

Hey Guys;

I was watching the CGY news last night and they mentioned that SRD has placed game cameras throughout the Banff National park. Originally intended for research purposes; have now caught poeple committing offenses. Things like: dogs - off leash, people hiking on trails marked closed. In some cases; apparently there are charges pending and people being charged for such things.

I think this is not only rediculous, but hilarious. They are even thinking of upping the numbers of cameras.

Just thought I'd post it to see if any outdoorsmen were thinking similar things?
*But in the meantime... heaven forbin you let your dog s#it in the bush (out in the middle of no where), because you may have a ticket in the mail, with your smiling face and your furry friend squatting!!! haha

First off SRD is a provincial department and Banff Nat. Pk. is a Federal park. SRD is not normally involved in research in the park.

Most of the time there are complaints on here that enforcement agencies are spread too thin and cannot get around to catch law breakers. So using trail cams to catch law breakers seems a good thing to me.

I don't think dog jitting in the park is the issue but dogs loose in a park often harass or kill wildlife and that is the issue

[Sledhead71]

The use of trail camera's by SERM in Saskatchewan has provided the authorities with proof of illegal acts and convictions of such acts. I think it is a good thing myself, the more charges laid, the more awareness in the area might reduce shady activities for the betterment of everyone.

[Twobucks]

Was that on Global? I watched CTV last night and didn't see that story.

National Parks has long had trouble with having the resources to enforce park regulations - and in many cases that has resulted in pilfering and poaching of our resources.

There must be more to this story - a picture doesn't tell you who the person is, and with 4 million visitors a year from around the world in the mountain parks, I don't believe parks is scanning research trail cam pics and then trying to track down offenders for minor violations.

The only way this passes the sniff test is if wardens have already caught someone for something and pictures are then used as evidence.

And trails are generally only closed (or made restricted access) because of bear encounters. People ignoring those closures are either foolish or a-holes. Bears have a tough enough go of it in the mountain parks with out getting killed because someone just had to go where they weren't supposed to.

As for dogs off leash in NP's - there are good reasons for those laws. That said, I've always used my own good judgement about having my dog on leash. Lots of people or thick bush where it's easy to surprise wildlife? Keep it on leash. High alpine with good sight lines? Go have fun big buddy. You're not hurting anything.

[Big Sky]

An off leash dog can be a hazard to you as well as to wildlife. If your dog meets up with a bear, chances are pretty good the dog will come running back to you. Chances are also pretty good the bear is following behind your dog. While I enjoy seeing bears in the wild, this would be a bit more enjoyment than I would want.
The dogs should be kept on the leash. The rule makes good sense for people and animals.

[rugatika]

The whole cameras watching us everywhere thing is getting to be a little too "1984" for me. But then I realize some people don't mind as long as it's for the greater good...."THE GREATER GOOD". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpbOliTHJY

[curtisb]

Ya, I think it was on global; just found it funny thought I'd ask what the guys on here thought.

The only "acts" that were mentioned were the off leash dogs and people using trails that were closed (and they were ticketing based on photo evidence). Also; it was a park ranger they interviewed, not SRD; I think you are correct.

Ironically enough they also discussed the same issues brought up by this forum; that Rangers were spread thin, hazards w/wildlife, etc.

This begs the question, are they better off doing patrols with their "thinly spread" officers, or watching for people on a closed trail or a dog off a leash by spending their time checking trail cams?

I'm not sure what it's like in the park as I'm not from there, haven't spent any time there since i was a young child; infact don't even know why I was watching the CGY news as I'm in EDM. Logically speaking, for me to check a few cameras on the couple quarters I hunt takes a couple hours. Again logically it seems to me, their time can be much better spent doing other things! Like monitoring the wildlife the cameras were put up for in the first place! This is why I find it borderline rediculous.

Big Sky; my dogs aren't scared of bears - the bear doesn't follow the dog with bells on it's collar, it's the other way around, the dog CHASES the bear (just like a big cat), the dog rarely gets near or sees the bear with the bells on it's collar. And if they get too far into the bush; I call them back. They are probably 10 fold more helpful than hazardous. Especially if they are OFF leash.

-If they s#it in the bush; Do I clean clean it up? (I may if I'm in Banff I guess -after the news last night haha).
-What happens when the hiker s#its in the bush?
-Do you wipe your a## with grass and keep on hiking?
-What, You don't pick it up and throw it in your pack? Didn't think so.
-Digested eggs and fish (dog food) - harmless to the environment? Um, yup, probably GOOD for the environment...
***Come on - I would tend to think the Ranger that drove his snowmobile or quad 1/2 way up the mountain to check the camera might be slightly (500 times) more harmful to the environment or wildlife.

[Big Sky]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am not making this up. It's easy to find news articles about bears turning on dogs.

http://www.ldnews.net/news/126208938.html

http://elkvalleybearaware.wordpress....gs-video-clip/

We spend a lot of time mountain biking in PLPP, s.e. BC etc. Yes, I am aware of the dangers of biking in bear country. We see lots of bears and sometimes the encounters are too close for my liking. The vast (VAST) majority of the time the bear leaves. That goes for blacks and grizzlies. Do I think they are scared of us? Not a chance. Do I think that they just want to be left alone? Absolutely. If bears attacked every time there was an encounter the news would be full of reports of maulings.

Am I suprised to hear that bears run from your dog? Nope
Would I be suprised to hear that your dog ran into the wrong bear one day? Nope.

Again, lots of info available on how to deal with bear encounters. It took a minute to find this from the UofA. You might be interested to see how their recommendations compare to your statements

http://safety.eas.ualberta.ca/node/13

Like most things in life - take your chances.

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by curtisb

*But in the meantime... heaven forbin you let your dog s#it in the bush (out in the middle of no where), because you may have a ticket in the mail, with your smiling face and your furry friend squatting!!! haha

Curtis if people can’t obey the law they should just stay the hell out of the park. That should be a no brainer for ya!

I’m sick of ass hats that think they are above the law. There is a leash law in the park gentlemen obey it or find a new place to explore; law breakers are not welcome in the park! I’ve had enough of your kind! Your not above the law obey it or get lost!

This winter my wife was out riding and some off leash dog attacked her horse. It kept running around them snapping at the horse’s legs. This went on for 10 minutes until some hikers came by and helped the dog owner control of the dog. Horse was spooked footing was ice; situation could have resulted in an injured or dead horse or rider.

If I am in the area and ever encounter an off leash dog that threatens a family member or my property then the owner of the dog will discover they are now the proud owner of a dead dog. If the dog owner gets in my face about it they will discover I’m more than happy to drive my elbow through the center of their face too! Do not get all self-righteous with me when you are breaking the law and endangering my family!

(If your off leash dog is not causing a threat to my immediate family then I’ll just email a photo to the wardens and they can write you up for the offence)

The leash law in Banff National Park has nothing to do with dog crap it’s about protecting wildlife and the public.

Don’t bother responding to this post with all the ohh not my dog it’s well trained, I don’t care and neither does the law.

Parks exist to protect wildlife; fido can’t be at large because fido may run the wildlife.

Recently: We have had off leash dogs in Banff chase deer in front of cars resulting in damaged vehicles and dead deer. And no the owner of the dog did not hang around to settle up with neither the wardens nor the owner of the car. People who thumb there nose at the law tend to not be responsible individuals!

We have had off leash dogs chase deer resulting in park visitors being run over by deer and hospitalised, And no the owner of the dog did not make amends.

We have had off leash dogs chew up deer so bad that the deer have had to be put down.

The day my wife encountered the off leash dog she rode another 200 yards after the first incident and encountered 2 or 3 more off leash dogs....they left the horse alone as they were occupied running a couple of bull elk!



I’ve had enough of this; I suspect the warden’s service has as well. Your dog is welcome in BNP, as long as you keep it on a leash.

Leash law protects dog owners too. It protects you from being sued and it protects you from fido running back to you with a bear chasing it!

[uglyelk]

Original article also metioned that the cameras caught 4 persons with rifles entering the park, plus several quads and dirt bikes. Camera location is out the trans alta road just past the sweat lodge on the park boundary. Major violations noted were uncontrolled dogs, but hunters and off roaders can expect wardens servicr to keep a better on all of these violations in the future. With the introduction of buffalo we will also see increased policing on the boarder of the park. Be sure you know where you are when hunting this area!

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Big Sky

An off leash dog can be a hazard to you as well as to wildlife. If your dog meets up with a bear, chances are pretty good the dog will come running back to you. Chances are also pretty good the bear is following behind your dog. While I enjoy seeing bears in the wild, this would be a bit more enjoyment than I would want.
The dogs should be kept on the leash. The rule makes good sense for people and animals.

Yah....holding onto the leash (dinner) just gets the bears to come to you too....

The dog runnning home getting chased by a bear is an "old wives tale" that has been around the block once or twice......although I am sure someone has done "research" on the topic....oh wait a minute

LC

[curtisb]

Originally Posted by uglyelk

Original article also metioned that the cameras caught 4 persons with rifles entering the park, plus several quads and dirt bikes. Camera location is out the trans alta road just past the sweat lodge on the park boundary. Major violations noted were uncontrolled dogs, but hunters and off roaders can expect wardens servicr to keep a better on all of these violations in the future. With the introduction of buffalo we will also see increased policing on the boarder of the park. Be sure you know where you are when hunting this area!

I knew the news story had more to it. Than off leash dogs...
Thanks uglyelk!

Wives tales aside guys, and regardess if bears turn on dogs(which is highly unlikely), bear scense says make lots of noise. There's not a much simpler way to make noise than a couple 4 legged critters with bells on haulin a## through the bush.

The story about the horse; sorry about your luck. I do understand dogs need to be leashed (and i dont spend any time in the park-or anywhere near the park). I also don't think I'm above the law, I was trying to figure out why the cameras, and why this was on the news...as the RANGERS DO HAVE REAL ISSUES TO WORRY ABOUT...or at least I'm hoping they do!

The deer that are so badly chewed up by offleash dogs...interesting... are you sure these arent better known as stray dogs, coyotes, or maybe even wolves???
***I find the outdoorsmen discussion even funnier now that i found so many folks that are 100% fully against dogs off leashes....in the park or otherwise.

[Big Sky]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

The dog runnning home getting chased by a bear is an "old wives tale" that has been around the block once or twice......although I am sure someone has done "research" on the topic....oh wait a minute

Could you back up your "old wives tale" assertion?

I would assume that Stephen Herrero is not an "old wife". On this topic, his opinion matters. Yours, unfortunately, does not.
From the BearAware website:

Herrero (2003) also notes that:

There may also be a danger in making noise, however. While you are trying to avoid a sudden encounter, especially of females with cubs, you may attract some grizzlies. Young adult grizzly bears are particularly curious, and their curiosity is often not yet tempered with knowledge that humans can mean trouble. This type of bear may be attracted to human sounds. Bears may also be attracted to high-pitched squeaking sounds, which may sound like distressed animals to bears.”

Walking dogs without a leash, especially dogs that are not trained to come when called, may provoke an attack. Some dogs may threaten or harass a bear and then retreat to the owner, possibly with an angry bear in pursuit. An angry bear in pursuit may turn from attacking the dog to attack the person.

He also wrote "Bear Attacks, Their Cause and Avoidance". People who spend time in bear country would find it to be an interesting read.

[uglyelk]

I find no humour in people entering the park to poach protected wildlife.
I find no humour in dogs ilegally running wildlife.
I find no humour in people breaking the law.

The area in question is rather handy to my home, I fill my deer tags in this area. It's damn nice country!


http://www.rmoutlook.com/article/201...-advocate-says

Just an example of the BS we face each day!

Yes we are surrounded by idiots! If it's not tree huggers, its bunny huggers...crap now we even have wolf huggers. Feel free to write this paper gentlemen and slag this article.

Point is it seems like every Tom, Dick and Harry is out to limit our access to wilderness areas to hunt. The big push with the agenda driven science crowd these days is to limit access to all roads that lead into areas populated by wildlife. They are rattling the sabers to protect critters by reducing hunting around parks etc.

Last thing we need is to start loosing access to these areas because of some dic heads breaking the rules. I sure hope it's not members of this forum showing up on these trail cams.

I hope it's hippy hikers or the land claims crowd that's showing up on these images. Maybe we should ask Parks to post the images on this site so we can all have a look see! I certainly wouldn't have an issue turning in anyone I recognised.

[darius]

the national parks have lost their way . banff the leader of the pack in this regard .

[curtisb]

Originally Posted by Big Sky

Could you back up your "old wives tale" assertion?

I would assume that Stephen Herrero is not an "old wife". On this topic, his opinion matters. Yours, unfortunately, does not.
From the BearAware website:

Herrero (2003) also notes that:

There may also be a danger in making noise, however. While you are trying to avoid a sudden encounter, especially of females with cubs, you may attract some grizzlies. Young adult grizzly bears are particularly curious, and their curiosity is often not yet tempered with knowledge that humans can mean trouble. This type of bear may be attracted to human sounds. Bears may also be attracted to high-pitched squeaking sounds, which may sound like distressed animals to bears.”

Walking dogs without a leash, especially dogs that are not trained to come when called, may provoke an attack. Some dogs may threaten or harass a bear and then retreat to the owner, possibly with an angry bear in pursuit. An angry bear in pursuit may turn from attacking the dog to attack the person.

He also wrote "Bear Attacks, Their Cause and Avoidance". People who spend time in bear country would find it to be an interesting read.

HEY LC, here comes the research...from a credible source...Haha. The credible author "Herrero"; he knows... and his opinion matters, he is from "bear country". I own a condo and work in FM. Not bear country at all (i had a total of 8 hungry bears walk through my backyard last summer-that i saw...) Each of them unique, but with one common trait , but I dont want to go there...i havent researched... dogs or people didnt run them off... and wives tails dont exist...im not from bear country, and my opinion doesnt matter.

[darius]

Originally Posted by curtisb

HEY LC, here comes the research...from a credible source...Haha. The credible author "Herrero"; he knows... and his opinion matters, he is from "bear country". I own a condo and work in FM. Not bear country at all (i had a total of 8 hungry bears walk through my backyard last summer-that i saw...) Each of them unique, but with one common trait , but I dont want to go there...i havent researched... dogs or people didnt run them off... and wives tails dont exist...im not from bear country, and my opinion doesnt matter.

a dog 's the best thing to have in bear country .

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by darius

the national parks have lost their way . banff the leader of the pack in this regard .

yup I agree....original concept was to protect and preserve for future generations. Their is no mandate to recreate...when parks were created guiding and outfitting were a way of life here. Somewhere along the line they changed the rules and no one paid us for our hunting rights. I want them back or a fat cheque in lew of hunting rights. The park acts never gave anyone the right to introduce brookies or bison.

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by darius

a dog 's the best thing to have in bear country .

yup just keep it tied!

[uglyelk]

I have never had any respect for Herrero. It seems ever couple of years you get an new expert contradicting the last one. Funny all the experts are from cities.

[darius]

Originally Posted by uglyelk

I have never had any respect for Herrero. It seems ever couple of years you get an new expert contradicting the last one. Funny all the experts are from cities.

yup x1000 !

[Albertadiver]

I'm currently involved in the Cave & Basin renewal project.

There is a superintendants closure to the entire area. Stay away from the sundance trailhead and the cave and basin site folks. If they catch you, the superintendant's closure means they can give rather large fines.

(The horse trail is still open though, but don't leave the path)

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by curtisb

HEY LC, here comes the research...from a credible source...Haha. The credible author "Herrero"; he knows... and his opinion matters, he is from "bear country". I own a condo and work in FM. Not bear country at all (i had a total of 8 hungry bears walk through my backyard last summer-that i saw...) Each of them unique, but with one common trait , but I dont want to go there...i havent researched... dogs or people didnt run them off... and wives tails dont exist...im not from bear country, and my opinion doesnt matter.

I keep getting told by everyone around here my opinion doesn't matter....LOL.

Herhairo or Geraldo or Francesco whoever ....... HE HAS AN OPINION we should all take notice of.....

OK so picture this....I am walking my dog on a leash (dog is tethered to me) and a bear takes issue with my dog.....my dog can out run me so what does that make me?....first course?

Why is it when they sick "bear dogs" after black bears on Cold Lake Weapons Range, they release the dogs to chase the bears and keep them off the roads?......I guess the patrol guys should just walk the dogs up and down the road to be more effective at controlling the bears?

Reality is most of the time the bears are afraid of the dogs and humans and will take off and the dogs will give up chase after a short time.....the bears may take a stand though at which point I have likely written off my dog and exited stage left....

Honestly the biggest worry for having dogs off leash in the parks is for them to get the Elk riled up and chase them onto the road or deep down busy streets with tourist walking around....

LC

[Hagalaz]

Originally Posted by Big Sky

An off leash dog can be a hazard to you as well as to wildlife. If your dog meets up with a bear, chances are pretty good the dog will come running back to you. Chances are also pretty good the bear is following behind your dog. While I enjoy seeing bears in the wild, this would be a bit more enjoyment than I would want.
The dogs should be kept on the leash. The rule makes good sense for people and animals.

A friend's dog did this exact thing about 10 years back. Met up with a sizeable black bear near the Ram River & came running back to my friend's location with the bear in tow. He fired his shotgun once into the air & the bear changed its mind and left.

Later on he was complaining about it and I told him "If you can't control your dog, keep it on a leash or leave it at home. If you refuse to do either of those things, then don't complain when your dog harrasses wildlife and they react negatively."