Important Poll: Hunting Draws in Alberta

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Nothing wrong with realistic increases in draw applications cost but only if it is directed towards F&W not general revenue

The fact of the matter is a small increase would not affect hunters applying for draws. If someone is truly hunting to save on meat they likely are applying for limited draws right near home to be coast effective. They are not traveling or looking for trophy animals, they are definitely not spending days road hunting at these fuel prices either. Really hunting for meat is only cost effective close to home with a fast success rate

Meat may be a lot of hunters harvest goal but truly most hunt for the experiences we have, tradition, to spend time with friends/family or as a personal challenge. Most won’t be save much if anything on meat costs once they honestly break down expenses

Let’s really be honest why we hunt because the truth is meat or antlers or horns, or skulls they are nothing but a by product of a successful hunt.

Really you could make it 50$ a draw and there will still be demand because hunters are going to invest in a chance to hunt. They may prioritize what the apply for and definitely cry about it but they will apply

But an increase is only worth while if it will be used to benefit wildlife

Good Post. I agree that Draw applications have to increase, but I think we will have trouble in getting the funds allocated to exclusively support wildlife.
Some agencies have done that ,eg Salmon stamps , Waterfowl stamps. Perhaps that idea could be incorporated into specific Draw apps or the actual permit issued .
Nothing wrong with a stamp as long as the $$$ are allocated to a specic fund.. something like a user fee. I think that approach would allow particpants a bit more say in how we would like it handled as wel.l

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by 270person

I don't know anyone that hunts because it's cheap. And it shouldn't be. Draw apps and tags are inconsequential costs in the grand scheme of things.

As for the seniors argument I'm not buying it. Currently $17 for a whitetail tag, upland license, and wildlife certificate. 999 a draw for priority for $4 = $21. A raised draw premium to say $10 -20 across the board adds $6 -16 for a total of $27-37. Hardly backbreaking and a lot cheaper than a day on the golf course or puttering along in a boat.

Guys are going to bemoan a rise in draw and tag costs but not the $150 per day to drive and eat? C'mon.

Im with you on this one but don't worry about the Seniors. If we still have a passion for hunting, we'll find a way to pay for our tags, be they $ 50.00 or $200.00.
As seniors, we have only two choices ..stay in the game or quietly fade away. Actually, they are the same choices all others will have to make eventually- if the prices are increased to an unbarable level.

[huntinstuff]

They flushed my grizzly priority when they killed the griz hunt

Next time I wont be so nice

[Savage Bacon]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

They flushed my grizzly priority when they killed the griz hunt



Next time I wont be so nice

Does previous priority mean anything if they ever change their mind again?

Sent from my BAH2-W19 using Tapatalk

[Chowdowncowtown]

I'm new to hunting, but I've got minimal interest in coveted/trophy tags, so I don't have much of a horse in this race.

However, looking at the amount of priority in some of these draws, it makes it clear that the current system isn't going to remain sustainable if we still want fees flowing in on those tags from new young hunters, let alone adult-onset hunters like myself.

For example, anyone in the trophy sheep draws who doesn't already have more than about 15 priority will likely be dead long before their ticket comes up, unless a lot of people ahead of them die first and they get lucky as well. There's truly no point to newer hunters applying for these draws at all, and arguably even people who started more than a decade ago are just throwing good money after bad.

With a squared priority system, the vast, vast majority of tags would still be going to people at the top end, but it would give people a reason to start or continue applying for the draws, as they could conceivably build enough priority to have a shot at a draw within their lifetime.

However, I do think a couple of things would need to be in place:
1) Existing priority holders keep their current priority score, no reset
2) An advance warning of at least 3 years before changing systems so that people with high enough priority for a 100% chance tag can use it if they want to.

For a less exclusive one, I did up an example of how the odds in the draw would look based on the data for WMU 151 antlered moose under a weighted system. The top priority holder (13) would still have a 95% chance of drawing a tag, the next level would be 90%, with most of the difference happening at the lower end. People at priority 4 would have a 34% chance of drawing their tag instead of 78%, with a gradual slope down to 1.6% at priority 1, with first-year entrants at 0 having no points at all. If we want to change the system to give first-year entrants a minuscule chance, I think the way to do it would be to give all existing priority holders a bump of 1 priority level and start new people at 1.

[twitchjig]

GREAT IDEA...SAID NO ONE EVER.
We can do better with management of wildlife numbers then to completely undo what folks have been working towards for decades.

I work shift and can't hunt some years during the fall season. Why should the system change just to support the people who have unequivocally paid much less into the system. Or nothing at all.

Plan ahead, be on your game, maybe you SHOULD have privilege if you were born here. Sorry but if you haven't paid taxes here, why should you get the same priority as me and the other honest folks? Where flick is the Alberta advantage. Guys just want to throw the risk board when they aren't winning is what it seems like to me.

Guess what? anyone that is passionate gets their kids into hunting in grade 8 for hunter conservation program and has them applying for draws early in life so theses unattainable draws you so boldly speak of are actually well within a well-thought-out persons grasp.

Thanks for the thought but let's leave this one on the back burner...way back there. Like how about never.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by twitchjig

GREAT IDEA...SAID NO ONE EVER.
We can do better with management of wildlife numbers then to completely undo what folks have been working towards for decades.

I work shift and can't hunt some years during the fall season. Why should the system change just to support the people who have unequivocally paid much less into the system. Or nothing at all.

Plan ahead, be on your game, maybe you SHOULD have privilege if you were born here. Sorry but if you haven't paid taxes here, why should you get the same priority as me and the other honest folks? Where flick is the Alberta advantage. Guys just want to throw the risk board when they aren't winning is what it seems like to me.

Guess what? anyone that is passionate gets their kids into hunting in grade 8 for hunter conservation program and has them applying for draws early in life so theses unattainable draws you so boldly speak of are actually well within a well-thought-out persons grasp.

Thanks for the thought but let's leave this one on the back burner...way back there. Like how about never.

So how does that child that starts applying in grade 8, ever draw a 437 sheep tag?

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by twitchjig

GREAT IDEA...SAID NO ONE EVER.
We can do better with management of wildlife numbers then to completely undo what folks have been working towards for decades.

I work shift and can't hunt some years during the fall season. Why should the system change just to support the people who have unequivocally paid much less into the system. Or nothing at all.

Plan ahead, be on your game, maybe you SHOULD have privilege if you were born here. Sorry but if you haven't paid taxes here, why should you get the same priority as me and the other honest folks? Where flick is the Alberta advantage. Guys just want to throw the risk board when they aren't winning is what it seems like to me.

Guess what? anyone that is passionate gets their kids into hunting in grade 8 for hunter conservation program and has them applying for draws early in life so theses unattainable draws you so boldly speak of are actually well within a well-thought-out persons grasp.

Thanks for the thought but let's leave this one on the back burner...way back there. Like how about never.

You need to read the post above yours again.
Weighted draw with the priority you currently have. It's pretty simple

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Chowdowncowtown

I'm new to hunting, but I've got minimal interest in coveted/trophy tags, so I don't have much of a horse in this race.

However, looking at the amount of priority in some of these draws, it makes it clear that the current system isn't going to remain sustainable if we still want fees flowing in on those tags from new young hunters, let alone adult-onset hunters like myself.

For example, anyone in the trophy sheep draws who doesn't already have more than about 15 priority will likely be dead long before their ticket comes up, unless a lot of people ahead of them die first and they get lucky as well. There's truly no point to newer hunters applying for these draws at all, and arguably even people who started more than a decade ago are just throwing good money after bad.

With a squared priority system, the vast, vast majority of tags would still be going to people at the top end, but it would give people a reason to start or continue applying for the draws, as they could conceivably build enough priority to have a shot at a draw within their lifetime.

However, I do think a couple of things would need to be in place:
1) Existing priority holders keep their current priority score, no reset
2) An advance warning of at least 3 years before changing systems so that people with high enough priority for a 100% chance tag can use it if they want to.

For a less exclusive one, I did up an example of how the odds in the draw would look based on the data for WMU 151 antlered moose under a weighted system. The top priority holder (13) would still have a 95% chance of drawing a tag, the next level would be 90%, with most of the difference happening at the lower end. People at priority 4 would have a 34% chance of drawing their tag instead of 78%, with a gradual slope down to 1.6% at priority 1, with first-year entrants at 0 having no points at all. If we want to change the system to give first-year entrants a minuscule chance, I think the way to do it would be to give all existing priority holders a bump of 1 priority level and start new people at 1.

Well done

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

You need to read the post above yours again.
Weighted draw with the priority you currently have. It's pretty simple

Or simply keep 90% of the tags priority tags ,and the rest lottery. That way the bulk of the tags are still issued by priority, and every applicant has a chance to draw.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by twitchjig

GREAT IDEA...SAID NO ONE EVER.
We can do better with management of wildlife numbers then to completely undo what folks have been working towards for decades.

I work shift and can't hunt some years during the fall season. Why should the system change just to support the people who have unequivocally paid much less into the system. Or nothing at all.

Plan ahead, be on your game, maybe you SHOULD have privilege if you were born here. Sorry but if you haven't paid taxes here, why should you get the same priority as me and the other honest folks? Where flick is the Alberta advantage. Guys just want to throw the risk board when they aren't winning is what it seems like to me.

Guess what? anyone that is passionate gets their kids into hunting in grade 8 for hunter conservation program and has them applying for draws early in life so theses unattainable draws you so boldly speak of are actually well within a well-thought-out persons grasp.

Thanks for the thought but let's leave this one on the back burner...way back there. Like how about never.

Lots of flaws to your theory but below is just one of many reasons your train of thought has flaws

There is a ton of new hunters that come from a non hunting family and don’t get into hunting until they are an adult even if they grew up in the province

I also work shift work and have for years it’s not near as difficult as you are making it out to be. Hunters outside of Alberta with draw system that are 100% random still manage to figure things out even

[twitchjig]

not our problem

and shutdowns are a month long with vacation blackouts.
smokebuuck

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by twitchjig

not our problem

and shutdowns are a month long with vacation blackouts.
smokebuuck

Hey everyone is entitled to their preferences. You are correct it is not your problem just as your work schedule problems are not anyone else’s

[st99]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So how does that child that starts applying in grade 8, ever draw a 437 sheep tag?

You guys seem to ignore a very important factor of the waitlist. Most of the people on top of it are over 50 yrs old, they will all die or stop hunting in the next 20 yrs. So that 8 grader will probably hunt 437 sheep before he's 40 yrs old, that's assuming hunting is still legal or people are allowed to leave their neighborhood.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by st99

You guys seem to ignore a very important factor of the waitlist. Most of the people on top of it are over 50 yrs old, they will all die or stop hunting in the next 20 yrs. So that 8 grader will probably hunt 437 sheep before he's 40 yrs old, that's assuming hunting is still legal or people are allowed to leave their neighborhood.

If people have been applying every year, there will be a wide variety of age groups ahead of the 8th grader, some will be over 50, some will be under 20. As it stands the priority points required for draws has been increasing , given that the number of applicants has been steadily increasing. A person doesn't need 15 more points to draw before you, they only need 1 more, so the person that applied last year as a 12 year old is ahead of you, if you start applying this year..

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by st99

You guys seem to ignore a very important factor of the waitlist. Most of the people on top of it are over 50 yrs old, they will all die or stop hunting in the next 20 yrs. So that 8 grader will probably hunt 437 sheep before he's 40 yrs old, that's assuming hunting is still legal or people are allowed to leave their neighborhood.

Thats some horribly flawed math you have there with assumptions used to support it.

[jungleboy]

It would appear that the big complaint about the draw system as it stands is that 437 is unobtainable. Perhaps a strait up lottery in 437 like they did for Zama bison. But you don’t get to apply again if you win it.

I used to apply religiously for the bison lottery before they killed it. Drove me nuts to see guys recounting their repeated bison hunts. While I couldn’t get a sniff .

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

It would appear that the big complaint about the draw system as it stands is that 437 is unobtainable. Perhaps a strait up lottery in 437 like they did for Zama bison. But you don’t get to apply again if you win it.

I used to apply religiously for the bison lottery before they killed it. Drove me nuts to see guys recounting their repeated bison hunts. While I couldn’t get a sniff .

408 sheep
444/446 sheep
turkey
418 elk
antelope getting there

Why straight up lottery vs. weighted draw system? Previous applicants keep their priority
Goat is once in a lifetime

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

408 sheep
444/446 sheep
turkey
418 elk
antelope getting there

Why straight up lottery vs. weighted draw system? Previous applicants keep their priority
Goat is once in a lifetime

Or a simple 80% priority, 20% lottery, so everyone has a chance, but most tags still go to priority.

[DirtShooter]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Or a simple 80% priority, 20% lottery, so everyone has a chance, but most tags still go to priority.

I like this proposal

[WinefredCommander]

Originally Posted by DirtShooter

I like this proposal

Add a youth only lottery too.