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  #61  
Old 07-27-2022, 11:28 PM
calgarychef calgarychef is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Pathfinder76 View Post
Pull through sharpeners should be illegal. Yikes!
I have to agree but I do carry one in my field dressing kit, I also carry a mini steel which isn’t that much different when I come to think of it. The problem with pull throughs is they follow every wobble in the blade and enhance them. Lee valley used to sell one with ceramic wheels which are slightly less intrusive than the carbide pull throughs. For chartering challenged folks I think anything easy is better than nothing.
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  #62  
Old 07-30-2022, 08:14 PM
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https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B003NCVFC4?...seeDetailsToDp

Not a bad deal for a 3 piece DMT stone set.
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  #63  
Old 07-30-2022, 08:16 PM
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See post #1
Missed that part haha
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  #64  
Old 07-31-2022, 11:02 AM
calgarychef calgarychef is offline
 
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It was suggested by a member that a thread on knife sharpening would be useful. I agree. One of the reasons I have never spent any money on knives is because I have done such a pizz poor job of sharpening. I mean, I am bad at using a stone. Horribly bad. Ironic, as I teach cooking for a living. Truth be told, most schools send their decent knives out at the end of the year for sharpening or use an electric. For the last dozen years I have used a Worksharp belt jobbie. It can give you a pretty darned decent edge when you get the hang of it, but I would not use it on a knife I paid good coin for as it’s gonna leave its footprints if you know what I mean. Last year, I got a Chef’s Choice electric that gets kitchen knives even sharper than the Worksharp does for me, but it too leaves footprints you’d never want on a quality knife.

So, as I wait for my first custom to arrive, I’ve been figuring out what I’m gonna sharpen it with. Leaning towards DMT Diamond Stones and DMT Knife Guide (see in link), as that is what Crotts himself recommends.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop...s?item=70M1101

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop...s?item=70M0420

I’d love to hear what works for you guys who are sharpening modern steels.

Thanks in advance for your feedback, as this is how one learns, and like the hunting knife thread, has the potential to be very informative for many people.

PS: Even if you suck at sharpening like me, but also want to learn how to improve, chime in and say so, that way guys who know their stuff may take the time to share the methods that work for them.

Don’t feel bad. Literally 99% of the cooks and chefs I’ve worked for have dull knives. Mine are work sharp all the time. I showed a guy at work how to sharpen a knife a couple weeks ago, he was so frustrated that his wouldn’t shave right away. I told him it takes practice!

If anyone in Calgary wants a quick and dirty lesson on sharpening pm me and we can get together.
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  #65  
Old 07-31-2022, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by calgarychef View Post
Don’t feel bad. Literally 99% of the cooks and chefs I’ve worked for have dull knives. Mine are work sharp all the time. I showed a guy at work how to sharpen a knife a couple weeks ago, he was so frustrated that his wouldn’t shave right away. I told him it takes practice!

If anyone in Calgary wants a quick and dirty lesson on sharpening pm me and we can get together.
If I were in Cowtown, I’d be heading over with your bevy of choice in hand.
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  #66  
Old 07-31-2022, 01:40 PM
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So since this post started, as Calgarychef has said it takes time to learn how to sharpen a knife, I have been taken more time with each knife on the lansky sharpener. And I have improved the sharpness of the house knives! My wife is happy & so am I! But still lot's to learn! Thanks all for your advice!


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Originally Posted by calgarychef View Post
Don’t feel bad. Literally 99% of the cooks and chefs I’ve worked for have dull knives. Mine are work sharp all the time. I showed a guy at work how to sharpen a knife a couple weeks ago, he was so frustrated that his wouldn’t shave right away. I told him it takes practice!

If anyone in Calgary wants a quick and dirty lesson on sharpening pm me and we can get together.

Last edited by badbrass; 07-31-2022 at 02:08 PM.
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  #67  
Old 07-31-2022, 03:16 PM
averagejoe averagejoe is offline
 
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Different strokes for different folks, different sharpening methods for different knives.

I have and use wet stones, oil stones, Worksharp Ken Onion with the blade grinding attachment, and a Tsprof Blitz Pro system. What I use depends on cheap knife or expensive, quick touch up, or a full sharpening etc.

If you are interested in a Worksharp Precision Adjust you may be interested to learn there are upgrades available that the community has come up with that improve the system by a large degree. The most popular being clamp braces to reduce movement, and "universal" stone holders that let you use common format KME 4" or Edge Pro style 6" stones. They end up being cheaper in the long run since the stock diamond plates are expensive to replace considering their size and how fast they wear. You can also choose between many different types of stones.

Link for reference https://www.gritomatic.com/collections/area-work-sharp but you can find 3D printed options in places like etsy or even models to print them yourself.

If you like that system but want to splurge a bit then upgrading to the KME is a big step up. As much as I love my Tsprof system, right now with the 35% tariff it pushes their price into the "not quite worth it" range.

The big thing to take away is a guided system or jig is not a replacement for practice and sharpening knowledge as some people believe. They aren't some magical cheat. You won't clamp a knife and randomly grind on it for a minute and get a razor sharp knife. It is surprising at the amount of people that buy a system thinking that. All they do is keep a consistent angle as you sharpen allowing you to get a precise edge more easily, especially if you have trouble keeping a consistent blade angle as you free hand sharpen which seems to be one of the main issues people encounter when trying to free hand sharpen.

You need to know how to properly sharpen, getting to the apex along the entire edge, raising the bur, removing it entirely and not leaving a wire edge behind etc which is another issue. People think they have a sharp blade that cuts paper like a laser only to have it get dull as soon as they cut something more substantial due to a wire edge crumpling or breaking off. This is normally what happens with the carbide/metal V shaped pull through sharpeners, they leave a large raggedy wire edge that soon breaks off causing you to sharpen it again which removes a lot more metal than needed causing a much shorter blade life.

Using a sharpie marker to mark the entire edge can help you see if you are sharpening the entire edge or if you need to adjust your angle a bit. It also helps you see if you are missing small areas due to edge damage or low spots that are not getting sharpened. A lighted magnification source can help you to more easily identify these trouble spots since you could be missing a hair wide section of the edge that is just a bit different than the rest of the blade leading to a dull spot "that just wont sharpen"

Lots of videos on Youtube and many groups for sharpening on places like Facebook, Reddit, and the like if you don't have somebody that can help you learn or figure out what might be causing you a particular issue when sharpening.
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  #68  
Old 07-31-2022, 08:26 PM
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I love using my water stones, I’ve yet to find a better way for myself. The down side is the initial investment.
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  #69  
Old 08-04-2022, 04:18 PM
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Corb Lund “always keep an edge on your knife” https://open.spotify.com/track/1sjUN...QraOva3xmw7LCg
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  #70  
Old 08-09-2022, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by averagejoe View Post
Different strokes for different folks, different sharpening methods for different knives.

I have and use wet stones, oil stones, Worksharp Ken Onion with the blade grinding attachment, and a Tsprof Blitz Pro system. What I use depends on cheap knife or expensive, quick touch up, or a full sharpening etc.

If you are interested in a Worksharp Precision Adjust you may be interested to learn there are upgrades available that the community has come up with that improve the system by a large degree. The most popular being clamp braces to reduce movement, and "universal" stone holders that let you use common format KME 4" or Edge Pro style 6" stones. They end up being cheaper in the long run since the stock diamond plates are expensive to replace considering their size and how fast they wear. You can also choose between many different types of stones.

Link for reference https://www.gritomatic.com/collections/area-work-sharp but you can find 3D printed options in places like etsy or even models to print them yourself.

If you like that system but want to splurge a bit then upgrading to the KME is a big step up. As much as I love my Tsprof system, right now with the 35% tariff it pushes their price into the "not quite worth it" range.

The big thing to take away is a guided system or jig is not a replacement for practice and sharpening knowledge as some people believe. They aren't some magical cheat. You won't clamp a knife and randomly grind on it for a minute and get a razor sharp knife. It is surprising at the amount of people that buy a system thinking that. All they do is keep a consistent angle as you sharpen allowing you to get a precise edge more easily, especially if you have trouble keeping a consistent blade angle as you free hand sharpen which seems to be one of the main issues people encounter when trying to free hand sharpen.

You need to know how to properly sharpen, getting to the apex along the entire edge, raising the bur, removing it entirely and not leaving a wire edge behind etc which is another issue. People think they have a sharp blade that cuts paper like a laser only to have it get dull as soon as they cut something more substantial due to a wire edge crumpling or breaking off. This is normally what happens with the carbide/metal V shaped pull through sharpeners, they leave a large raggedy wire edge that soon breaks off causing you to sharpen it again which removes a lot more metal than needed causing a much shorter blade life.

Using a sharpie marker to mark the entire edge can help you see if you are sharpening the entire edge or if you need to adjust your angle a bit. It also helps you see if you are missing small areas due to edge damage or low spots that are not getting sharpened. A lighted magnification source can help you to more easily identify these trouble spots since you could be missing a hair wide section of the edge that is just a bit different than the rest of the blade leading to a dull spot "that just wont sharpen"

Lots of videos on Youtube and many groups for sharpening on places like Facebook, Reddit, and the like if you don't have somebody that can help you learn or figure out what might be causing you a particular issue when sharpening.
Thanks, Average joe. I am looking seriously at the Worksharp Precision and those upgrades on Etsy. Gritomatic seems t be sold out.
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  #71  
Old 08-09-2022, 10:10 AM
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the worksharp precision looks like a good unit for a guy on a budget.

I was gonna get the spyderco sharpmaker but now I may consider the worksharp precision
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  #72  
Old 08-09-2022, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by HuyFishin View Post
the worksharp precision looks like a good unit for a guy on a budget.

I was gonna get the spyderco sharpmaker but now I may consider the worksharp precision
A lot of guys like the Spyderco Sharpmaker, but beware, from what I have read, and the videos I have watched, that unit is not something you can easily do a good job of reprofiling a knife edge. maybe that matters to you and maybe it doesn’t.
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  #73  
Old 08-09-2022, 02:35 PM
averagejoe averagejoe is offline
 
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Thanks, Average joe. I am looking seriously at the Worksharp Precision and those upgrades on Etsy. Gritomatic seems t be sold out.
House of knives has the individual replacement WS plates for $11 each. Pauls Finest https://www.paulsfinest.com/collecti...pening-systems has 6" Edge Pro stones for ~$23 each and the more expensive diamond stones as well for $80+ each but they last a really long time. Don't want to use them on softer steels though. Both of those are in Canada.

I am unsure if there are any other retailers in Canada that have 6" stones as I have not found any. You want to avoid the cheap Chinese stones on Amazon and the like, most if not all of them are trash. If you want to go with Gritomatic the Boride T2 stones they have are ~6mm thick instead of the 3-4mm of the Edge Pro stones. Both are made by Boride but the thicker stones will last longer. T2 will do most steels you will encounter with the exception of the higher end super steels. You would want diamond or CBN for those.
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  #74  
Old 08-09-2022, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by averagejoe View Post
House of knives has the individual replacement WS plates for $11 each. Pauls Finest https://www.paulsfinest.com/collecti...pening-systems has 6" Edge Pro stones for ~$23 each and the more expensive diamond stones as well for $80+ each but they last a really long time. Don't want to use them on softer steels though. Both of those are in Canada.

I am unsure if there are any other retailers in Canada that have 6" stones as I have not found any. You want to avoid the cheap Chinese stones on Amazon and the like, most if not all of them are trash. If you want to go with Gritomatic the Boride T2 stones they have are ~6mm thick instead of the 3-4mm of the Edge Pro stones. Both are made by Boride but the thicker stones will last longer. T2 will do most steels you will encounter with the exception of the higher end super steels. You would want diamond or CBN for those.
Sorry. I was talking about the 3D printed plastic stiffener

Cabela's had this unit on sale for $65. I popped out and got one. I try not to be a fanboy of the stuff I get, but no one researches more than I do. As was said by a few people, these Worksharp Precision Adjusts offer really good bang for the buck. In fact, a few guys I respect on the web said that you can buy a guided system that costs well in excess of 10x as much, but you'd be living in the land of diminishing returns. BTW, the one guy in particular, Nick Shabaka, owns the other, more expensive systems. He didn't say they were equal, but for the average guy, not a TON of difference, if you take the time to learn how to use it.

This is my first knife I've ever done what I consider to be a good job with. I reprofiled to 20° and took her down to the ceramic stone. Took a good 20 minutes. In fact, I had to go back and start over, but no biggie.

I'd be impressed with the sharpness if this were a brand new knife. It's not. It was something kicking around in the junk drawer cuz I couldn't make it sharp. It's ready to go hunting now. For real.

I consider this to be a very good, value purchase. I like when something is as advertised.

It is what it is, a $65 piece of kit, but with the adddition of a strop, I will happily undertaking sharpening my new Crotts when it needs it.

I have a Lansky hiding somewhere in a box downstairs, but it will stay in that box. This thing has had much more thought go into it, and though cheaper, feels much more substantial, and dare I say… dummy proof.

The only thing I am going to order, for now, is one of those stiffeners for under the knife clamp assembly, but that’s only about $25.

Thanks guys!



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Last edited by sns2; 08-09-2022 at 03:23 PM.
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  #75  
Old 08-09-2022, 03:30 PM
averagejoe averagejoe is offline
 
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Sorry. I was talking about the 3D printed plastic stiffener
Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk
Ah alright, first part of my comment still applies though for the replacement diamond and ceramic plates for when they wear out or if they break. Having a Canadian source saves on those pesky shipping and currency conversion fees.

320 plate
https://houseofknives.ca/work-sharp-...ner-sa0004764/

600 plate
https://houseofknives.ca/work-sharp-...ner-sa0004765/

Ceramic plate https://houseofknives.ca/work-sharp-...ner-sa0004766/


Congrats on the new toy.. I mean tool You now stand on the edge of a very deep rabbit hole. Before you know it you will be resharpening trying to get a better edge and going through the house looking for dull knives
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  #76  
Old 08-09-2022, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by averagejoe View Post
Ah alright, first part of my comment still applies though for the replacement diamond and ceramic plates for when they wear out or if they break. Having a Canadian source saves on those pesky shipping and currency conversion fees.

320 plate
https://houseofknives.ca/work-sharp-...ner-sa0004764/

600 plate
https://houseofknives.ca/work-sharp-...ner-sa0004765/

Ceramic plate https://houseofknives.ca/work-sharp-...ner-sa0004766/


Congrats on the new toy.. I mean tool You now stand on the edge of a very deep rabbit hole. Before you know it you will be resharpening trying to get a better edge and going through the house looking for dull knives
Oh I know. The 7 months I waited for this Crotts knife was the longest 7 months of my life. LOL.

You saved me a boatload of money.

It ain’t a KME, Edge Pro, or heaven forbid a Wicked edge, but it certainly punches above its purchase price. Worksharp got this thing right.

Last edited by sns2; 08-09-2022 at 03:42 PM.
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  #77  
Old 08-09-2022, 03:51 PM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is online now
 
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I’m interested in your review on that work sharp unit.
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  #78  
Old 08-09-2022, 08:23 PM
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Sorry once again! Thanks!

Last edited by badbrass; 08-09-2022 at 08:45 PM.
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  #79  
Old 08-10-2022, 01:11 PM
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Did some more fooling around this morning with this rig. I took a knife that I had run through my chef's choice electric that was fairly sharp, and dulled it on a coffee cup. Butter knife dull. Reprofiled to 20° and sharpened down to 600 grit. Worked good. Learning curve is pretty small on this thing. Light strokes, letting the diamonds do the cutting seems key, and not moving on until there's a burr the whole length of the apex. Not rocket science, but she works. Dead easy.


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  #80  
Old 08-10-2022, 01:31 PM
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How much of a burr before you move on? Something you can feel, with a finger nail?
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  #81  
Old 08-10-2022, 01:40 PM
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Fingernail is what I use.



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  #82  
Old 08-10-2022, 02:29 PM
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Fingernail is what I use.



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OK, that helped, I managed to get mine a lot sharper.
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  #83  
Old 08-10-2022, 03:52 PM
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OK, that helped, I managed to get mine a lot sharper.
I mean, let’s be real. I am just figuring this out myself, but consistent strokes, letting the stone do the work, getting a burr the full length of the apex before moving to next stone, and above all else constancy of angle.

This is quite enjoyable when things go right.

Thanks to all of you who know your stuff, and have shared your knowledge with us.

Helluva lot better than arguing about Covid or whatever the issue of the day is over in the General Forum
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  #84  
Old 08-11-2022, 03:22 AM
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A few other tricks for detecting a small bur is you can use a napkin, paper towel, kleenex, etc and drag it over the edge to see if it catches.

Shining a flashlight at the top edge of the knife along the blade can help show really fine burrs as a light line on the edge. This is the one I like to use as it can show burrs that are much to fine for some people to feel.

Combine that with the sharpie trick of marking the entire edge to see what is being sharpened really helps if you are having trouble getting a burr in an area due to a low spot or if you need to reclamp the blade at a different angle.

Also, this video is with a KME but applies to the other systems as well. Sharpening the tips can be really tricky and this video goes into it quite well wit ha lot of good information. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYxmCwqedTo If you scroll through his videos past all the knife reviews he has a bunch of videos on sharpening with KME and Tsprof as well as other systems. TONS of knowledge and tips and tricks that applies to others as well and worth a watch.

Last edited by averagejoe; 08-11-2022 at 03:27 AM.
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  #85  
Old 08-11-2022, 08:32 AM
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Make sure you make the “eep eep” sound while sharpening the tip.

Thanks for the link! That was really helpful.
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  #86  
Old 08-11-2022, 08:57 AM
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Some made a very important point - every good systems takes some patience and practice. If you can find a sharpening system to eliminate some of that (like a clamp to blade and fixed angle sharpener) then I'd say - it's fine to go that route. For most novice to intermediate folks (like most of us) It will provide consistency and a sharp knife.

The pinnacle will always be an edge with a properly consistent bevel. Like a master knifesmith would get with a set of Japanese wet stones - but in the hands of someone like me, the results would be far less spectacular. Freehanding and maintaining the correct pressure, angles and cants take years of practice and lots of patience and time.

So, there must be an intermediate type of system right? yes, there is, and in my opinion it's flexible belt sharpeners. You do have to control your pressure and speed as you pull it through following the cant of the blade, but the angle (as long as you set it correctly and don't fight the guides) will be maintained for you. The flexible belt will impart a proper bevel if you maintain consistent pressure.

It's for this exact reason, that I see any fixed angle clamp to blade system inferior to a flexible belt system that imparts a bevel onto your blade (for the purposes of longevity). The initial sharpness may be indiscernible, but half way through your elk in the field is where the geometry of the edge matters.

Yes, agree, clamp ons are really hard to screw up. and Yes, even easy to use belts like the Ken Onion worksharp require some care (ensure you are pulling through and keeping your blade perpendicular and not tilting (or canting) it - but it's worth the trade off for me.

I can start a sharpening museum in my house with all the systems I've bought and used over the years - and I'm still not a fan of clamp ons.

Now, if a person was just starting out (or you know has no patience) - yeah - a clamp on is the way to go - and a good one will give you a good edge.
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  #87  
Old 08-11-2022, 08:59 AM
JBE JBE is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sns2 View Post
I mean, let’s be real. I am just figuring this out myself, but consistent strokes, letting the stone do the work, getting a burr the full length of the apex before moving to next stone, and above all else constancy of angle.

This is quite enjoyable when things go right.

Thanks to all of you who know your stuff, and have shared your knowledge with us.

Helluva lot better than arguing about Covid or whatever the issue of the day is over in the General Forum
Ya, I know you were just learning also, as am I. I bought this sharpener after seeing your post. I had to really work at it to get a burr on the edge. I would think a courser stone for profiling would really help. I wonder how long these will last although I did order replacements for it.
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  #88  
Old 08-11-2022, 09:41 AM
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Phil McCracken Phil McCracken is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBE View Post
Ya, I know you were just learning also, as am I. I bought this sharpener after seeing your post. I had to really work at it to get a burr on the edge. I would think a courser stone for profiling would really help. I wonder how long these will last although I did order replacements for it.
Sometimes one does not know (remember) the angle of the secondary bevel. So if it is say 25 degrees, and you set the sharpener at 22ish...more metal taken away near the primary bevel, hence...more sharpening. Once bevel is determined, fly at her.

I have this Worksharp set up also...love it!

And thanx for mentioning the optional items folks!...
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  #89  
Old 08-11-2022, 09:50 AM
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I have been using a horl 2 sharpener for the last year or so. Very easy and consistent, would highly recommend for the novice. It produces good edges that hold.
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  #90  
Old 08-11-2022, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I use a Gatco diamond kit, it allows me to sharpen blades shaving sharp, with very little effort. I never need to sharpen blades in the field.
x2 with a Japanese water stone at end... great youtube videos on sharpening it is all about consistency...
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