A must read article by Lorne Fitch

[SawyerHook]

Who Is Minding Alberta’s Fish and Wildlife?
Lorne Fitch, P. Biol.

Probably by the time you read this your search will be endless for the fragments of the old Fish and Wildlife Division. It will not exist under any recognizable name or department. This was the Alberta government agency that inventoried and assessed fish and wildlife populations, allocated opportunity for hunting and fishing, determined species at risk and their recovery, ran fish hatcheries, provided hunter training and conservation education, enforced fishing and hunting rules, and, most importantly, provided advice on proposed land uses to ensure fish and wildlife populations were conserved.

The UCP government has been stealthily engaged in the final gutting of what was left of the Fish and Wildlife Division. Fish and wildlife allocation has been hived off to Forestry, Parks and Tourism, under the auspices of a minister who coincidentally has one of the largest guiding and outfitting companies in Alberta. I’m sure that isn’t a conflict of interest. The fish culture section (all the hatcheries) has been sent to Agriculture and Irrigation, leaving the species at risk function behind in Environment and Protected Areas.

Previous conservative governments transferred enforcement (the Fish and Wildlife Officers) to the Solicitor General’s department. Much of the fish and wildlife inventory and habitat development function went to the non-government Alberta Conservation Association. Resource education was privatized under the Alberta Hunter Education Instructor’s Association.

The UCP tout grass roots democracy and red tape reduction. Yet, none of these recent changes have had any public consultation, let alone input from conservation organizations. As to red tape reduction, how parcelling out the functions of fish and wildlife management between four government departments and two non-government organizations makes things more efficient defies logic.

These changes are the equivalent of sending hospitals to Municipal Affairs, family health to Education, trauma and emergency services to Transportation, and diagnoses to Public Safety. It’s hard to imagine any successful business that would operate on such an uncoordinated and non-integrated approach.

Like a successful business the delivery of government programs, in the public interest, need to function in an integrated way under the umbrella of one departmental administration with a similar purpose and direction.
For fish and wildlife to be managed well, there needs to be adequate, timely inventories of populations; an assessment of what the allocation should be to hunting and fishing interests; ways to monitor population responses to harvest; robust habitat protection; policy development to ensure biodiversity is always part of government agendas; responses to the legal (and moral) requirements for species at risk, with necessary recovery actions; provision of additional recreational angling opportunities through fish hatchery operations; and, a level of enforcement to ensure rules are followed. These functions are not divisible, hinge upon each other, and can only work as a unified whole.

How fish and wildlife management and conservation will happen, in such a fractured way, between four departments, all with differing mandates, priorities, and directions is a question unanswered (it may be the question was never thought of at all). The real risk is that our fish and wildlife populations will slip through the bureaucratic cracks, the intents for conservation will be weakened, and red tape will increase with interdepartmental conflicts over mandates, budgets, and staff levels.

I admit some bias in this assessment as I was a part of the Fish and Wildlife Division before the hemorrhaging began, when it was still considered one of the elite fish and wildlife agencies in North America.
Like selling provincial parks and throwing the Eastern Slopes open to coal exploration, gutting fish and wildlife management is another example of how out of touch the UCP is with Albertans over the conservation of resources considered as provincial treasures. It speaks to a most extraordinary and dangerous hubris.

February, 2023

Lorne Fitch is a Professional Biologist, a retired Alberta Fish and Wildlife Biologist, and a former Adjunct Professor with the University of Calgary.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

She’s a dumpster fire, no doubt.

[CBintheNorth]

"I admit some bias in this assessment..."

There's bias there all right. Lorne has always been a true champion of the NDP.
Which, by the way, did absolutely nothing to fix what he speaks of in their 4 years of a majority government.

Having said that, what he speaks of is true. But it's not just this government that is to be held accountable, it is a sign of the times. The majority of Albertans are all 'okay' with how things are because we all prioritize differently. I don't think there's another group out there who cares more about our fish Wildlife than hunters and fishermen.
And yet, the NDP would like nothing more than to shut us out of our favorite activities. They can't seem to see the forest for the trees..

His article would carry much more weight if it was directed to government in general.
As it is, it reads like just more political propaganda.
Too bad...

[3blade]

Started with Ralph, because F&W stood up to him. Another long term conservative old boys club project, dismantling anything that gets in the way of corporate profits.

But the dippers were only interested in Shannon’s Y2Y pet project and sucking turdos….socks.

Sadly there is no good political option for the outdoorsman. Divide and conquer politics infests every part of our lives.

[dshaw]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

"I admit some bias in this assessment..."

There's bias there all right. Lorne has always been a true champion of the NDP.
Which, by the way, did absolutely nothing to fix what he speaks of in their 4 years of a majority government.

Having said that, what he speaks of is true. But it's not just this government that is to be held accountable, it is a sign of the times. The majority of Albertans are all 'okay' with how things are because we all prioritize differently. I don't think there's another group out there who cares more about our fish Wildlife than hunters and fishermen.
And yet, the NDP would like nothing more than to shut us out of our favorite activities. They can't seem to see the forest for the trees..

His article would carry much more weight if it was directed to government in general.
As it is, it reads like just more political propaganda.
Too bad...

Agreed, Lorne would love to see nothing more that you and I never to set foot in one of his "parks" again. it is political propaganda for sure in favour of the NDP who just like he said, never did anything to change anything when they were in.

[roy9525]

Originally Posted by SawyerHook

Who Is Minding Alberta’s Fish and Wildlife?
Lorne Fitch, P. Biol.

Probably by the time you read this your search will be endless for the fragments of the old Fish and Wildlife Division. It will not exist under any recognizable name or department. This was the Alberta government agency that inventoried and assessed fish and wildlife populations, allocated opportunity for hunting and fishing, determined species at risk and their recovery, ran fish hatcheries, provided hunter training and conservation education, enforced fishing and hunting rules, and, most importantly, provided advice on proposed land uses to ensure fish and wildlife populations were conserved.

The UCP government has been stealthily engaged in the final gutting of what was left of the Fish and Wildlife Division. Fish and wildlife allocation has been hived off to Forestry, Parks and Tourism, under the auspices of a minister whcoincidentally has one of the largest guiding and outfitting companies in Alberta. I’m sure that isn’t a conflict of interest. The fish culture section (all the hatcheries) has been sent to Agriculture and Irrigation, leaving the species at risk function behind in Environment and Protected Areas.

Previous conservative governments transferred enforcement (the Fish and Wildlife Officers) to the Solicitor General’s department. Much of the fish and wildlife inventory and habitat development function went to the non-government Alberta Conservation Association. Resource education was privatized under the Alberta Hunter Education Instructor’s Association.

The UCP tout grass roots democracy and red tape reduction. Yet, none of these recent changes have had any public consultation, let alone input from conservation organizations. As to red tape reduction, how parcelling out the functions of fish and wildlife management between four government departments and two non-government organizations makes things more efficient defies logic.

These changes are the equivalent of sending hospitals to Municipal Affairs, family health to Education, trauma and emergency services to Transportation, and diagnoses to Public Safety. It’s hard to imagine any successful business that would operate on such an uncoordinated and non-integrated approach.

Like a successful business the delivery of government programs, in the public interest, need to function in an integrated way under the umbrella of one departmental administration with a similar purpose and direction.
For fish and wildlife to be managed well, there needs to be adequate, timely inventories of populations; an assessment of what the allocation should be to hunting and fishing interests; ways to monitor population responses to harvest; robust habitat protection; policy development to ensure biodiversity is always part of government agendas; responses to the legal (and moral) requirements for species at risk, with necessary recovery actions; provision of additional recreational angling opportunities through fish hatchery operations; and, a level of enforcement to ensure rules are followed. These functions are not divisible, hinge upon each other, and can only work as a unified whole.

How fish and wildlife management and conservation will happen, in such a fractured way, between four departments, all with differing mandates, priorities, and directions is a question unanswered (it may be the question was never thought of at all). The real risk is that our fish and wildlife populations will slip through the bureaucratic cracks, the intents for conservation will be weakened, and red tape will increase with interdepartmental conflicts over mandates, budgets, and staff levels.

I admit some bias in this assessment as I was a part of the Fish and Wildlife Division before the hemorrhaging began, when it was still considered one of the elite fish and wildlife agencies in North America.
Like selling provincial parks and throwing the Eastern Slopes open to coal exploration, gutting fish and wildlife management is another example of how out of touch the UCP is with Albertans over the conservation of resources considered as provincial treasures. It speaks to a most extraordinary and dangerous hubris.

February, 2023

Lorne Fitch is a Professional Biologist, a retired Alberta Fish and Wildlife Biologist, and a former Adjunct Professor with the University of Calgary.

Nothing but a loud mouthed schnook.

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by dshaw

Agreed, Lorne would love to see nothing more that you and I never to set foot in one of his "parks" again. it is political propaganda for sure in favour of the NDP who just like he said, never did anything to change anything when they were in.

Correct!

I’m sure the orange crush team members will be along shortly. KVT start up a new account lately? Not sure…

[SawyerHook]

[QUOTE=CBintheNorth;4608861]...the NDP would like nothing more than to shut us out of our favorite activities. They can't seem to see the forest for the trees..."

Where is the evidence that the NDP want to shut out hunters. And where is the evidence that Shannon Philips conspired with the Y2Y to shut down hunters? This irrational paranoia and conspiracy theory approach isn't doing anyone any good... What was that saying about "... Rome burning...." So while some of us hurl insults and half-truths or even out right lies, the fish and wildlife resource we all love is going down the toilet...

To put my view into context I am an Albertan who has hunted and fished in this province for over 50 years. I hunt with both rifle and a bow and i both backpack hunt and own a quad... I am also a trained biologist, a retired mountain guide, whitewater guide and hunting guide... I was also one of the founding directors of the Y2Y Initiative and I can tell you absolutely truthfully that there is not an anti-hunter motive in the Y2Y organization...

Last year I had the opportunity to drive the forestry trunk road from Hwy 16 to Cochrane; a trip I hadn't made in over 10 years. I was blown away by the scale of deforestation that has occurred. And for what - a measly $0.25 in stumpage for every meter of logs harvested - tens of thousands of truck loads.

Does anyone here think that was good for fish and wildlife.

What about the coal policy?

And what about the UPC (all UPC) idea to give a $100 million subsidy to the oil and gas industry to clean up the abandoned wells they are legally obligated to do without subsidies... At a time when those same companies are posting all-time record profits...

No ladies and gentlemen, lets stop mud slinging, stop fanning the flames of fear and discontent and ask yourself what is best for our fish and wildlife resource and for the future of fishing and hunting in Alberta.

I don't care about your political orientation - each to their own. But I just want you to vote for the Government you think will do the best job managing our fish and wildlife resource. Please

And what is a "dipper"?

[Smoky buck]

[QUOTE=SawyerHook;4609030]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

...the NDP would like nothing more than to shut us out of our favorite activities. They can't seem to see the forest for the trees..."

Where is the evidence that the NDP want to shut out hunters. And where is the evidence that Shannon Philips conspired with the Y2Y to shut down hunters? This irrational paranoia and conspiracy theory approach isn't doing anyone any good... What was that saying about "... Rome burning...." So while some of us hurl insults and half-truths or even out right lies, the fish and wildlife resource we all love is going down the toilet...

To put my view into context I am an Albertan who has hunted and fished in this province for over 50 years. I hunt with both rifle and a bow and i both backpack hunt and own a quad... I am also a trained biologist, a retired mountain guide, whitewater guide and hunting guide... I was also one of the founding directors of the Y2Y Initiative and I can tell you absolutely truthfully that there is not an anti-hunter motive in the Y2Y organization...

Last year I had the opportunity to drive the forestry trunk road from Hwy 16 to Cochrane; a trip I hadn't made in over 10 years. I was blown away by the scale of deforestation that has occurred. And for what - a measly $0.25 in stumpage for every meter of logs harvested - tens of thousands of truck loads.

Does anyone here think that was good for fish and wildlife.

What about the coal policy?

And what about the UPC (all UPC) idea to give a $100 million subsidy to the oil and gas industry to clean up the abandoned wells they are legally obligated to do without subsidies... At a time when those same companies are posting all-time record profits...

Sawyerhook


No ladies and gentlemen, lets stop mud slinging, stop fanning the flames of fear and discontent and ask yourself what is best for our fish and wildlife resource and for the future of fishing and hunting in Alberta.

I don't care about your political orientation - each to their own. But I just want you to vote for the Government you think will do the best job managing our fish and wildlife resource. Please

And what is a "dipper"?

Thanks for your opinion but I personally don’t support Y2Y for starters. I also see nothing positive from the NDP in Alberta or other provinces they are or have been in power being beneficial to fish and wildlife. The reality of it is there is no real push to improve fish and wildlife management in this country or province by government on a provincial or federal level

Right now there is no party that brings forward a platform that supports outdoorsman or fish and wildlife so choices are made according to other important issues that effect my lifestyle and views

The NDP is toxic for my lifestyle and economic stability so not an option. UCP is just the best of the worst

As for Y2Y I am in strong opposition to the view

Now anything else on your agenda that you are trying to push just spit it out and don’t beat around the bush please. Trolling to hopefully influence people to share your political views won’t do much good so be blunt and honest from the start on what you’re trying to accomplish

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by SawyerHook

Where is the evidence that the NDP want to shut out hunters. And where is the evidence that Shannon Philips conspired with the Y2Y to shut down hunters? This irrational paranoia and conspiracy theory approach isn't doing anyone any good... What was that saying about "... Rome burning...." So while some of us hurl insults and half-truths or even out right lies, the fish and wildlife resource we all love is going down the toilet...

To put my view into context I am an Albertan who has hunted and fished in this province for over 50 years. I hunt with both rifle and a bow and i both backpack hunt and own a quad... I am also a trained biologist, a retired mountain guide, whitewater guide and hunting guide... I was also one of the founding directors of the Y2Y Initiative and I can tell you absolutely truthfully that there is not an anti-hunter motive in the Y2Y organization...

Last year I had the opportunity to drive the forestry trunk road from Hwy 16 to Cochrane; a trip I hadn't made in over 10 years. I was blown away by the scale of deforestation that has occurred. And for what - a measly $0.25 in stumpage for every meter of logs harvested - tens of thousands of truck loads.

Does anyone here think that was good for fish and wildlife.

What about the coal policy?

And what about the UPC (all UPC) idea to give a $100 million subsidy to the oil and gas industry to clean up the abandoned wells they are legally obligated to do without subsidies... At a time when those same companies are posting all-time record profits...

No ladies and gentlemen, lets stop mud slinging, stop fanning the flames of fear and discontent and ask yourself what is best for our fish and wildlife resource and for the future of fishing and hunting in Alberta.

I don't care about your political orientation - each to their own. But I just want you to vote for the Government you think will do the best job managing our fish and wildlife resource. Please

And what is a "dipper"?

Didn’t take long…

I was right, team orange, team Y2Y is great joins in.

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by SawyerHook

And what is a "dipper"?

Look in the mirror in the morning, there’s a dipper.

[fishnguy]

^ Didn’t even the rest of the thread, but this post. Now that is actually funny!

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by SawyerHook

...

Where is the evidence that the NDP want to shut out hunters. And where is the evidence that Shannon Philips conspired with the Y2Y to shut down hunters? This irrational paranoia and conspiracy theory approach isn't doing anyone any good... What was that saying about "... Rome burning...." So while some of us hurl insults and half-truths or even out right lies, the fish and wildlife resource we all love is going down the toilet...

To put my view into context I am an Albertan who has hunted and fished in this province for over 50 years. I hunt with both rifle and a bow and i both backpack hunt and own a quad... I am also a trained biologist, a retired mountain guide, whitewater guide and hunting guide... I was also one of the founding directors of the Y2Y Initiative and I can tell you absolutely truthfully that there is not an anti-hunter motive in the Y2Y organization...

Last year I had the opportunity to drive the forestry trunk road from Hwy 16 to Cochrane; a trip I hadn't made in over 10 years. I was blown away by the scale of deforestation that has occurred. And for what - a measly $0.25 in stumpage for every meter of logs harvested - tens of thousands of truck loads.

Does anyone here think that was good for fish and wildlife.

What about the coal policy?

And what about the UPC (all UPC) idea to give a $100 million subsidy to the oil and gas industry to clean up the abandoned wells they are legally obligated to do without subsidies... At a time when those same companies are posting all-time record profits...

No ladies and gentlemen, lets stop mud slinging, stop fanning the flames of fear and discontent and ask yourself what is best for our fish and wildlife resource and for the future of fishing and hunting in Alberta.

I don't care about your political orientation - each to their own. But I just want you to vote for the Government you think will do the best job managing our fish and wildlife resource. Please

And what is a "dipper"?

First of all, get your member quotes and facts straight.
Second, you ask for evidence and facts, but then proceed to throw a load of (likely) B.S. at me and expect me to swallow it.
Third, pawn your Y2Y crap on someone else. I know enough about its initiatives to know it's not good for outdoorsmen and women.
Last, enjoy your stay. I hope it's short.

[Smoky buck]

Can you feel the love for Y2Y

[crazy_davey]

My god! How many years do we have to go over this Y2Y bullpoop? Yet stupid outdoorsmen/women still getting sucked in.

Ahhh… Look at the state of our country, no wonder we have the leader we do… My signature sums it up.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by crazy_davey

My god! How many years do we have to go over this Y2Y bullpoop? Yet stupid outdoorsmen/women still getting sucked in.

Ahhh… Look at the state of our country, no wonder we have the leader we do… My signature sums it up.

I stopped underestimating the stupidity of the human race long ago. Now it’s just trying to gauge what level some will reach.

[walking buffalo]

Been waiting for this "Sawyer" to get political again, as he used to under a previous handle.
I'm surprised it took so long. The usual AO sleuths are getting old and slow.


With that being said, there is an undeniable concern with the government moving these portfolios as they have. This was not done without an intent for big change in management policy. I suspect the privatization and industrialization of our protected lands and wildlife is only an election away.

Maybe Danielle is having wet dreams of making that three river dam in the upper Elbow, Sheep and Highwood becoming a reality.

Lets be careful here and keep the UPC from getting carried away.

[wind drift]

Solid move for outfitters. APOS must be peeing themselves with glee. I guess conflict of interest doesn’t mean what I thought it did.

[JReed]

Originally Posted by SawyerHook

I was also one of the founding directors of the Y2Y Initiative and I can tell you absolutely truthfully that there is not an anti-hunter motive in the Y2Y organization...

You’re right, no anti-hunting motive for the indigenous. Its too bad the Y2Y website doesn't reflect that fine print detail anymore.

[Hevishot]

[I’d rather be outdoors]

[QUOTE=SawyerHook;4609030]

I was also one of the founding directors of the Y2Y Initiative and I can tell you absolutely truthfully that there is not an anti-hunter motive in the Y2Y organization...

And what is a "dipper"?

That’s the funniest thing I’ve read all day. Will believe that when I’m convinced that the WEF really truly just wants me to be happy by owning nothing.