Important Poll: Hunting Draws in Alberta

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by eyeflyer

You have a crystal ball and know what is going to happen over the next 50 years???? Working for what you want is a life lesson and should not be abandoned because it may involve some time and effort.

Throwing some change into a draw once a year is not working for something lol

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Edmonton resident

I am thinking she really didn't want it The problem with people today they want it now they don't want to wait sorry you have to waite like everyone else.

Originally Posted by eyeflyer

That is the problem many of the "new" hunters they don't feel they should have to wait............they should be able to jump the line. No respect or concept of earning what you want.

Hmmm. Almost like sharing the same keyboard

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

A few seem to have a hard time grasping this.
This thread isn't about fixing doe draws

Exactly, beat me to it.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Edmonton resident

I am thinking she really didn't want it.

Don't tell him what she thinks, you don't know her.....

So how unproductive comments like that are?
Respectful discussion, even though we many not agree = good.
Combative, disruptive arguing on the internet is my hobby after work = bad.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

You do realize most who push for change are hunters with many years of hunting under their belts

Just over 30 years experience here not a “new” hunter by any means lol

I will place bets there is plenty others who support change with a lot more than 30 years under their belt too

Might want to rethink your “new” hunter theory

Personally, with 50 years of experience, I know that new hunters will never have the opportunity that I did, but it would be nice to help out a bit with some extra opportunity, that they won't get without some change. That being the case, I only want changes for those few draws that new hunters can never draw. They can wait for the draws that take 15 years or less, just like I did.

[eyeflyer]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

You do realize most who push for change are hunters with many years of hunting under their belts

Just over 30 years experience here not a “new” hunter by any means lol

I will place bets there is plenty others who support change with a lot more than 30 years under their belt too

Might want to rethink your “new” hunter theory

Not my theory, it was referenced here and lots of other posts over the years. I have hunted for about 50 years now in Alberta and feel very lucky to have the opportunities I have had............I feel the system is FAIR and wait for my draws and am happy when I get them........ the "system" is working okay and owes me nothing.

[tirebob]

I like EH11's 50 years theory better I think...

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by eyeflyer

Not my theory, it was referenced here and lots of other posts over the years. I have hunted for about 50 years now in Alberta and feel very lucky to have the opportunities I have had............I feel the system is FAIR and wait for my draws and am happy when I get them........ the "system" is working okay and owes me nothing.

Years? Or last 2 months?

[boonedocks]

After thinking this over I may have voted wrong for keeping the draws the same. I admit to being a priority hoarder, while waiting for the right time to pull the pin on a hunt. The possibility of loosing out on a sure thing hunt for a year or two would be outweighed by the chance of pulling one of the more covered tags in my mind. The last thing I want to see is someone getting priced out of the system though, with the buying of priority points and such. There are lots of people out there who have to put the money up front for spouses and children already. There has to be a balance so everyone can get in.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Personally, with 50 years of experience, I know that new hunters will never have the opportunity that I did, but it would be nice to help out a bit with some extra opportunity, that they won't get without some change. That being the case, I only want changes for those few draws that new hunters can never draw. They can wait for the draws that take 15 years or less, just like I did.

System works very well with draw’s that demand reasonable priority. I prefer it over the random draw system I also experienced when it comes to draw’s under average demand

Some form of hybrid system would likely be best in my opinion

But I don’t see change happening anytime soon

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

A little more info on the system (or a link where I could read about it) would be helpful.

Thanks.

In Montana if you buy the bonus point, should you not draw this year you get awarded 1 point. Next year when you enter your points are squared and that is the number of entries you get. So first year you get one entry as you have no bonus points until after the drawing. The 2nd year you have 1 bonus point that is squared plus your entry for that year so 2 entries. 3rd year you have 2 bonus points squared so 4 plus your 1 entry for that year giving you a total of 5 chances. 4th year you have 3 bonus points squared =9 +1 for a total of 10 chances… etc etc…

we also limit non residents by statute to no more than 10% of the total tags for any special draw. If there’s a total of 10 tags for a given district there will never be more than 1 non resident who draws it.

Statistically as the bonus points up your odds do as well but for the majority of the big tags Moose Sheep Goat or Trophy Elk, you won’t start drawing until over 10 bonus points. I have friends with max points(21) as they’ve been buying ever since they started this system and never drawn. Then I talk to hunters every year who have drawn multiple of those tags over their lives. That includes the 7 year waiting period if you draw moose sheep goat.

Personally I’d like to see it go to a once in a life time but that’s me. I’d also like to see overall license fees increase for both residents and non residents.

Feel free to PM me if you have questions on our system.

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Years? Or last 2 months?

He’s been here before…

[eyeflyer]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Years? Or last 2 months?

Years............... this and almost every other comment regarding the draws comes up at least once or twice a year and has for years. Wait until June/July you will be able to read almost all of it all over again.

[CBintheNorth]

I would have to give it a little more thought and some research, but having a draw that goes to a weighted system after 12 or 15 years wouldn't be a bad thing, I don't think? Would need a pause on applying after drawing.
Something like that would give those people some hope anyway.
I say this, having a couple of draws with very high priority. Basically started at Year One.
I will more than likely split them and buy youth partner tags for my two boys on those draws so that they have an opportunity at these animals, because the way things are now, they will never even have a chance.

Heck, I know a couple guys that forgot draws one year and basically gave up, as they have no chance anymore.

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by eyeflyer

Years............... this and almost every other comment regarding the draws comes up at least once or twice a year and has for years. Wait until June/July you will be able to read almost all of it all over again.

So before December.....

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Personally, with 50 years of experience, I know that new hunters will never have the opportunity that I did, but it would be nice to help out a bit with some extra opportunity, that they won't get without some change. That being the case, I only want changes for those few draws that new hunters can never draw. They can wait for the draws that take 15 years or less, just like I did.

Just my opinion, but there is lots of opportunity here in Alberta for many species, both general and draws than in most of Canada. Those wishing to enjoy our passion should be thankful of the present opportunities and get out and enjoy what this province has.

I have been mentoring many over the last years and for the most part these new sportsmen and women want trophies. It actually is disappointing to be honest, my approach is we are out to enjoy the spoils and experiences, not bragging rights and social media credit.

Our system is fair, equal and unfortunately some may never have opportunities we have had. My father, grandfather and many older than I had opportunities I never did, just the way it is when populations increase and resources don't.

[Knotter]

... there are some opportunities that just don't have enough tags in the quota to use the priority system. Turkey for example, does not have enough churn to get through the demand. In those cases we could go to a weighted system or straight lottery. My 13 year old has been putting in for draws since he was eligible and he wondered if he'd ever get a draw for turkey (and a few others). My answer is no, unless turkey populations explode there is 0 probability he would be drawn. I suspect that all the naysayers to a weighted system have lots of priority saved up. I'm a 15 on 410 sheep so I have something to lose if they do change it but I'm still in favour. I think it's better if the next generation of hunters don't all have to be rich and go elsewhere for those special tags. Not an all or none but in those situations where the quotas are lowe enough we can do better than priority only.

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

Life is full of disappointments. It’s best to learn that at an early age.
I will never get an opportunity to do a lot of things ,even though others have, I guess my only option is to get over it and move on.

Best post here. Life is not fair, all the folks that think it is, are living in a fairy tail. I can guarantee when a resident has been putting in for a tag here in Montana and never drawn it, but runs into a NR that has, they think the same. Not Fair, I live here and have been putting in all my life and here some out of towner gets my critter. Like you said, get over it and move on.

Originally Posted by MountainTi

How long will it take me to be drawn if I start putting in for a sheep tag in 437 this year?
Nevada's, Montana's, ect system I would have a chance

That depends on which district you put in for. Again, NR are limited to no more than 10%. With that some of the real trophy districts with less than 10 tags a NR would have next to no chance. However, we do have unlimited sheep districts where if you put in, you are guaranteed to draw a tag. But that district usually has a quota and once that quota is met your SOL.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Knotter

... there are some opportunities that just don't have enough tags in the quota to use the priority system. Turkey for example, does not have enough churn to get through the demand. In those cases we could go to a weighted system or straight lottery. My 13 year old has been putting in for draws since he was eligible and he wondered if he'd ever get a draw for turkey (and a few others). My answer is no, unless turkey populations explode there is 0 probability he would be drawn. I suspect that all the naysayers to a weighted system have lots of priority saved up. I'm a 15 on 410 sheep so I have something to lose if they do change it but I'm still in favour. I think it's better if the next generation of hunters don't all have to be rich and go elsewhere for those special tags. Not an all or none but in those situations where the quotas are lowe enough we can do better than priority only.

Absolutely no reason to give up your priority with a change in systems

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

That depends on which district you put in for. Again, NR are limited to no more than 10%. With that some of the real trophy districts with less than 10 tags a NR would have next to no chance. However, we do have unlimited sheep districts where if you put in, you are guaranteed to draw a tag. But that district usually has a quota and once that quota is met your SOL.

Yep. A chance. Exactly as I mentioned before. Thanks I have ZERO chance in 437 (as well as a handful of others).

Buddy was drawn for desert in Nevada and a Cali in Oregon last summer. Nevada is squared priority. Oregon was lottery. 8 years applying.
There are draws in Alberta it would be impossible for him to draw in his lifetime

People here don't see a problem with this? Mind boggling

[Knotter]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Absolutely no reason to give up your priority with a change in systems

If they changed to weighted I lose the near guaranteed draw but I'd like my odds of being drawn with 196+ points if they use the points squared method. A tradeoff for the younger generation of hunters out there. I want home to still be a hunting destination.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Yep. A chance. Exactly as I mentioned before. Thanks I have ZERO chance in 437 (as well as a handful of others).

Buddy was drawn for desert in Nevada and a Cali in Oregon last summer. Nevada is squared priority. Oregon was lottery. 8 years applying.
There are draws in Alberta it would be impossible for him to draw in his lifetime

People here don't see a problem with this? Mind boggling

Why does everyone have such a hard on for 437 sheep. You people do realize you can buy a general tag and hunt for 2 + months in the province of Alberta. And if your wanting to hunt turkey you could go to BC and buy a non resident tag could you not? Antelope are a fragile animal and the tag numbers are always changing from year to year that's just the way it is!

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Knotter

If they changed to weighted I lose the near guaranteed draw but I'd like my odds of being drawn with 196+ points if they use the points squared method. A tradeoff for the younger generation of hunters out there. I want home to still be a hunting destination.

15 squared +1. 226 times. You'd get it eventually (unless your luck is like mine when it comes to that sort of thing). But there are others who would have a chance who never had one before.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Why does everyone have such a hard on for 437 sheep. You people do realize you can buy a general tag and hunt for 2 + months in the province of Alberta. And if your wanting to hunt turkey you could go to BC and buy a non resident tag could you not? Antelope are a fragile animal and the tag numbers are always changing from year to year that's just the way it is!

Relax. It's an example.
WMU 440. Better?

[Outcast]

I guess I look at this differently than some. I've been blessed to have spent a fair number of years hunting in this province with many successes and great experiences.

I do think there are some issues with certain draws, others are fine. I understand that some people look at the draw system and say things like, nothing in life comes easy and you have to put in your time for things. I agree with that message in cases where if you put in your time and work harder your chances increase and you can get yourself ahead. The thought of pure seniority I disagree with. My daughter cannot work harder or have a chance of drawing an antelope tag, for example, in the foreseeable future with the current structure. To me this is about opportunity and since I can't see the draw system changing, I take it upon myself to ensure she has the opportunity she deserves. She works hard in life and loves the outdoors. Until she is 18 I plan my draws around what she will be able to get out for with her active schedule and partner tag with me. This year will likely be an Antelope.

At this point in my life watching others and helping them accomplish things in the outdoors is far more important and fruitful than me doing it again.

Some of the selfish statements in this thread worry me about our hunting future.

Having said that I do think our current draw system needs a revamp in areas as well as our adjoining provinces providing some more equal opportunity for "Canadians" to hunt without classifying them as non-residents.

[Chukar Hunter]

Originally Posted by Outcast

I guess I look at this differently than some. I've been blessed to have spent a fair number of years hunting in this province with many successes and great experiences.

I do think there are some issues with certain draws, others are fine. I understand that some people look at the draw system and say things like, nothing in life comes easy and you have to put in your time for things. I agree with that message in cases where if you put in your time and work harder your chances increase and you can get yourself ahead. The thought of pure seniority I disagree with. My daughter cannot work harder or have a chance of drawing an antelope tag, for example, in the foreseeable future with the current structure. To me this is about opportunity and since I can't see the draw system changing, I take it upon myself to ensure she has the opportunity she deserves. She works hard in life and loves the outdoors. Until she is 18 I plan my draws around what she will be able to get out for with her active schedule and partner tag with me. This year will likely be an Antelope.

At this point in my life watching others and helping them accomplish things in the outdoors is far more important and fruitful than me doing it again.

Some of the selfish statements in this thread worry me about our hunting future.

Having said that I do think our current draw system needs a revamp in areas as well as our adjoining provinces providing some more equal opportunity for "Canadians" to hunt without classifying them as non-residents.

Spot on man...eloquently put....let's not forget our duty towards conservation....and a big part of conservation is recruiting new blood that would otherwise loose hope or gravitate towards other sports or activities....without them and with the way our current politicians are thinking, we could be the last generation to hunt, let alone trophy hunt....this is a serious matter and people need to look beyond their noses...

I started this thread as a genuine inquiry in to a system that is now dated but unfortunately, as it often has been seen in this Forum, it is showing "some" ugly karma....

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Outcast

I guess I look at this differently than some. I've been blessed to have spent a fair number of years hunting in this province with many successes and great experiences.

I do think there are some issues with certain draws, others are fine. I understand that some people look at the draw system and say things like, nothing in life comes easy and you have to put in your time for things. I agree with that message in cases where if you put in your time and work harder your chances increase and you can get yourself ahead. The thought of pure seniority I disagree with. My daughter cannot work harder or have a chance of drawing an antelope tag, for example, in the foreseeable future with the current structure. To me this is about opportunity and since I can't see the draw system changing, I take it upon myself to ensure she has the opportunity she deserves. She works hard in life and loves the outdoors. Until she is 18 I plan my draws around what she will be able to get out for with her active schedule and partner tag with me. This year will likely be an Antelope.

At this point in my life watching others and helping them accomplish things in the outdoors is far more important and fruitful than me doing it again.

Some of the selfish statements in this thread worry me about our hunting future.

Having said that I do think our current draw system needs a revamp in areas as well as our adjoining provinces providing some more equal opportunity for "Canadians" to hunt without classifying them as non-residents.

As long as we are not residents of a given province, we will always be non-residents, and rightfully so, we don't pay the taxes that are used to finance game management in those other provinces.

[Outcast]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

As long as we are not residents of a given province, we will always be non-residents, and rightfully so, we don't pay the taxes that are used to finance game management in those other provinces.

I have no problem paying the non-resident fees but there needs to be opportunity and not with a guide. On your own DIY and I am not saying every species needs to be that way.

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Yep. A chance. Exactly as I mentioned before. Thanks I have ZERO chance in 437 (as well as a handful of others).

Buddy was drawn for desert in Nevada and a Cali in Oregon last summer. Nevada is squared priority. Oregon was lottery. 8 years applying.
There are draws in Alberta it would be impossible for him to draw in his lifetime

People here don't see a problem with this? Mind boggling

And why is the quota so small in this district?? Probably because there are very few animals OR it’s managed strictly as a trophy district. Why do people have such a hard time understanding if you want the number of trophy animals in a given district you HAVE to limit the annual harvest. THATS mind boggling:bad_boys_20

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

And why is the quota so small in this district?? Probably because there are very few animals OR it’s managed strictly as a trophy district. Why do people have such a hard time understanding if you want the number of trophy animals in a given district you HAVE to limit the annual harvest. THATS mind boggling:bad_boys_20

lol. don't think anyone has a hard time understanding that. Have yet to hear anyone advocate for more tags in these zones. Or open it up to general tags. Maybe I missed a poster suggesting that?

It's not even a "trophy district" anymore for reasons I won't even bother bringing up.

I'm guessing you understand the system up here, and the problem is some of these are set up now if you weren't in it the first or second year, you will never get the draw.

They realized the screwup (but neglect to fix it) 19ish years ago when they opened up a november season in 438 (which has more tags than 437) and put it on straight lottery. They then did the same with goat.
It's well known my government they effed up, but nobody seems to want to fix it. If they switched some of these unattainable tags to straight lottery, she'd get pretty noisy, and rightfully so considering there are guys with 26 years priority.
That is why the weighted/squared system is being suggested. Take those 26 years of priority and transfer it over. It's not rocket science.