Important Poll: Hunting Draws in Alberta

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Weighted draw for all of them
Give everyone a little bit of excitement come draw time
It’s boring when you know your going to get picked
Get rid of the group draws
Increase the application price on higher valued hunts
Such as sheep, antelope, turkey, trophy elk, trophy moose
Anything that currently requires a 12 or higher priority to draw
Its more money to enter

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Except there are no partner tags for most species, if you aren't a youth, or a senior. And if you introduce partner tags for every species, some people will use their spouse or their children to draw tags to use themselves.

No group draws and increased prices reduces people flooding the draws with family members and spouses
Legally they have to be there still anyways
And how hard would it be to expand partner tags to other species ?
Put partner tags options on “freezer filler” hunts
And remove them from high demand ones

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

No group draws and increased prices reduces people flooding the draws with family members and spouses
Legally they have to be there still anyways
And how hard would it be to expand partner tags to other species ?
Put partner tags options on “freezer filler” hunts
And remove them from high demand ones

I put in for many group draws, none with family or spouses, all with friends. If we were going to drive 8 hours to hunt pronghorn , a few friends would usually draw together, and we would drive together and rent rooms together. The same for special trophy elk or moose hunts. Being able to do this, made for a more enjoyable hunt for us.

And even if families do draw trophy pronghorn or antlered moose or elk tags, why shouldn't they? Should only the dedicated trophy hunters be allowed to draw those tags? Are families not as worthy as you are? Are they only worthy enough for antlerless or non trophy tags?

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I put in for many group draws, none with family or spouses, all with friends. If we were going to drive 8 hours to hunt pronghorn , a few friends would usually draw together, and we would drive together and rent rooms together. The same for special trophy elk or moose hunts. Being able to do this, made for a more enjoyable hunt for us.

Don't need a tag to enjoy these hunts with buddies. I used over a years worth of holidays last year just to tag along on someone else's hunts. It was pretty enjoyable

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I put in for many group draws, none with family or spouses, all with friends. If we were going to drive 8 hours to hunt pronghorn , a few friends would usually draw together, and we would drive together and rent rooms together. The same for special trophy elk or moose hunts. Being able to do this, made for a more enjoyable hunt for us.

And even if families do draw trophy pronghorn or antlered moose or elk tags, why shouldn't they? Should only the dedicated trophy hunters be allowed to draw those tags? Are families not as worthy as you are? Are they only worthy enough for antlerless or non trophy tags?

People can enter whatever they want
The idea that up to 4 people can take advantage of a $4 application needs to go
That is what I think the problem is

Do you really think you would need 4 moose the same season
Same for elk, and everything else
You chances of 4 people being successful in the same season are also substantially lower

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Don't need a tag to enjoy these hunts with buddies. I used over a years worth of holidays last year just to tag along on someone else's hunts. It was pretty enjoyable

Exactly
An 8 hour drive to be the spotter on your buddy’s antelope hunt
Sign me up
I’ve driven twice as far to do that exact same thing

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

People can enter whatever they want
The idea that up to 4 people can take advantage of a $4 application needs to go
That is what I think the problem is

Do you really think you would need 4 moose the same season
Same for elk, and everything else
You chances of 4 people being successful in the same season are also substantially lower

So charge a fee for every person in the group draw. And no , we don't need 4 moose, but pronghorn for example are small animals, so one per hunter is not at all unreasonable. And it doesn't have to be four people, it can just as easily be two or three.
The point is, that you only care about one person , that being you, and you would make any changes that you could, that would benefit you, regardless of how it effects anyone else. If you could, you would raise the prices to where many people couldn't afford to apply, because you can afford it, and it would increase your odds. You would bring in a system to buy priority points, because that would also benefit you. This is all about you trying to get more tags for yourself, while someone else gets less tags.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So charge a fee for every person in the group draw. And no , we don't need 4 moose, but pronghorn for example are small animals, so one per hunter is not at all unreasonable. And it doesn't have to be four people, it can just as easily be two or three.
The point is, that you only care about one person , that being you, and you would make any changes that you could, that would benefit you, regardless of how it effects anyone else. If you could, you would raise the prices to where many people couldn't afford to apply, because you can afford it, and it would increase your odds. You would bring in a system to buy priority points, because that would also benefit you. This is all about you trying to get more tags for yourself, while someone else gets less tags.

I could care less if I hunted in alberta again
So it’s not for me
The only person looking out for their own interests is you
You see a guy having problems at the range and instead of pointing out a potential issue. You just go complain about it online
Our draw structure needs to change, I’m a firm believer in that
One major hurdle is the price we pay
It’s peanuts
So it’s very easy for people to flood the pool with a ton of applications. Which is a direct cause of point creep. It’s not rocket science.
Instead of whining about you not being able to hunt with your 4 buddy’s at the same time. Think of the big picture and everyone else.
You pat yourself on the back because you take out a couple people that use your tag. Here’s a secret, everyone does this… another secret, they could probably use their own priority if the system wasn’t catering to people that only care about today and not tomorrow.

[Smoky buck]

I have used both the priority system and the completely random system. They both have issues and benefits.

The random draw is best for low odds draws. You also need to learn to play your odds if you wish to be drawn or be lucky. I have see guys who are lucky and pull draws all the time under the random system or pull high odds draw’s often. I have also seen guys apply for moderately low odd like 5 to 1 for over 20years and never draw a tag. Met one old guy who was never drawn in over 40 years. Also seen tons of draws wasted because guys applied just because it was good odds and didn’t understand logistics of the hunt

Priority system is great for draws with moderate to low demand. You know you will be drawn in time and can plan your hunts. When the point get too high you may not be able to physically do the hunt properly when the time comes or like has been mentioned miss one draw you will no longer be able to build enough priority in your life. Those who started hunting later in life or moved to the province at an older age are SOL on some draws

Neither of the above is really that great. The suggested weighted system seems to hold more potential or even a hybrid/priority system say after point creep reach a certain point the draw goes to random

Personally see no issues with group draws if done right but I do think everyone should pay an entry fee. Partner draws are one BC uses for moose that works well too. Don’t really see group draws as something that should apply in draws with very limited tags

I don’t think it matters what system is used hunters will complain

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by petew

There should be no outfitter tags when residents have to enter a lottery. Wholesaling our game to a part time job industry does not do a thing for a resident. Instead of trying to make the easy button for new people that don't want to wait their turn is outlandish.. We waited . They can too. The last thing we need is an American type of hunting.

You remove folks that use the services of an outfitter and NR tags and to make up for the decrease in revenue you will have to increase your resident fees. Ironic how many people want to decry the “American type” of hunting as you call it, and eliminate that opportunity yet they have no problem trying to go somewhere else as a NR and hunt there. You can poopoo the American method but I guarantee the hunting opportunity and access to tags I have here in Montana is better than the hunting you have in Alberta.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

You remove folks that use the services of an outfitter and NR tags and to make up for the decrease in revenue you will have to increase your resident fees. Ironic how many people want to decry the “American type” of hunting as you call it, and eliminate that opportunity yet they have no problem trying to go somewhere else as a NR and hunt there. You can poopoo the American method but I guarantee the hunting opportunity and access to tags I have here in Montana is better than the hunting you have in Alberta.

The “American method” isn’t really that bad for the most part
It gives people opportunities to hunt in a variety of different ways
And even so, each state is different too
It’s the high demand tags that are the focus of a lot of the frustration
You just have even more people trying to get that same small number of opportunities. There’s no way to avoid issues

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Do you really think you would need 4 moose the same season
Same for elk, and everything else
You chances of 4 people being successful in the same season are also substantially lower

So if you think success is minimal why do they give out multiple tags per species? If your worried about how much meat hunters need why does anyone need multiple tags per season then?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I could care less if I hunted in alberta again
So it’s not for me
The only person looking out for their own interests is you
You see a guy having problems at the range and instead of pointing out a potential issue. You just go complain about it online
Our draw structure needs to change, I’m a firm believer in that
One major hurdle is the price we pay
It’s peanuts
So it’s very easy for people to flood the pool with a ton of applications. Which is a direct cause of point creep. It’s not rocket science.
Instead of whining about you not being able to hunt with your 4 buddy’s at the same time. Think of the big picture and everyone else.
You pat yourself on the back because you take out a couple people that use your tag. Here’s a secret, everyone does this… another secret, they could probably use their own priority if the system wasn’t catering to people that only care about today and not tomorrow.

Actually, I can afford to pay high tag prices, so raising prices would actually allow me more tags. I am actually thinking about the people that can't afford to pay high prices especially youths. And no , everyone doesn't let someone else partner with them and use their tags, in fact some greedy people get tags for their spouses and their children, and fill those tags themselves illegally. And those people are the reason why they don't allow partner tags for everyone, they would have everyone else drawing tags, and partnering with them, so they could hunt every species pretty much every year. And with lottery only draws, the odds of those people that I invited to partner with me drawing tags that took 9 and 12 years of priority, would have been extremely slim.
I would like to see everyone who draws a tag be charged immediately for that tag, just to prevent people from drawing and not purchasing the tags. Having to pay for the tag would at least make some people think twice before committing the tag price to apply.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I could care less if I hunted in alberta again
So it’s not for me
The only person looking out for their own interests is you
You see a guy having problems at the range and instead of pointing out a potential issue. You just go complain about it online
Our draw structure needs to change, I’m a firm believer in that
One major hurdle is the price we pay
It’s peanuts
So it’s very easy for people to flood the pool with a ton of applications. Which is a direct cause of point creep. It’s not rocket science.
Instead of whining about you not being able to hunt with your 4 buddy’s at the same time. Think of the big picture and everyone else.
You pat yourself on the back because you take out a couple people that use your tag. Here’s a secret, everyone does this… another secret, they could probably use their own priority if the system wasn’t catering to people that only care about today and not tomorrow.

Ok. Cool. Drop whatever priorities that you have. Keep booking all your outfitted hunts, and checking off those boxes. But if that's actually the case that you don't give a sh!t about Alberta, then why are you on here constantly bi!tching about absolutely everything that happens here in Alberta? Everything from F&W to AFGA to WSFA to "the biologists" to grazing leases to the draw system to pronghorn to sheep management to predators to etc., etc., ect.? It's non-stop. Seriously, if you're done with Alberta, then why???

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

No group draws and increased prices reduces people flooding the draws with family members and spouses
Legally they have to be there still anyways
And how hard would it be to expand partner tags to other species ?
Put partner tags options on “freezer filler” hunts
And remove them from high demand ones

The first line makes nothing but sense.
Here we are with diminishing opportunities on one hand, and recruiiting wives in-laws, uncles, grandparents , cousins etc.in to the fray and now complaining about wait times to play. Lots of these guys are waaay over a decent meat supply to" feed thier family" and are still looking for more.
The whole Big Game hunting scenario in Alberta is F"d up and every one of us knows it. Fix that end first and then worry about draw times. Willingness to pay a Lot more for the priveledge of BG hunting would be another place to start .I think I pay about $100.00 for vehicle plates and I can still afford a $100.00 or so for a Big Game tag -upfront with my draw application to boot. ME NOW really doesn't work.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Actually, I can afford to pay high tag prices, so raising prices would actually allow me more tags. I am actually thinking about the people that can't afford to pay high prices especially youths. And no , everyone doesn't let someone else partner with them and use their tags, in fact some greedy people get tags for their spouses and their children, and fill those tags themselves illegally. And those people are the reason why they don't allow partner tags for everyone, they would have everyone else drawing tags, and partnering with them, so they could hunt every species pretty much every year. And with lottery only draws, the odds of those people that I invited to partner with me drawing tags that took 9 and 12 years of priority, would have been extremely slim.
I would like to see everyone who draws a tag be charged immediately for that tag, just to prevent people from drawing and not purchasing the tags. Having to pay for the tag would at least make some people think twice before committing the tag price to apply.

Our tag prices are low
Paying for it upfront would be irrelevant

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Our tag prices are low
Paying for it upfront would be irrelevant

Only committing $28, to apply for seven draws, is pretty much irrelevant to everyone, but committing $200 to $300, is significant to some people.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by albertadave

Ok. Cool. Drop whatever priorities that you have. Keep booking all your outfitted hunts, and checking off those boxes. But if that's actually the case that you don't give a sh!t about Alberta, then why are you on here constantly bi!tching about absolutely everything that happens here in Alberta? Everything from F&W to AFGA to WSFA to "the biologists" to grazing leases to the draw system to pronghorn to sheep management to predators to etc., etc., ect.? It's non-stop. Seriously, if you're done with Alberta, then why???

The problem here is the system is flawed
It’s not doing anyone any good
Everything here could be substantially better and the only reason why it’s not is because of lack of funding and govt bureaucracy.
Are you happy with the way things are going?
Do you think this is the path to success for the future?
When you go to different places you see different policy’s and can see what’s working and what isn’t.
Our hunting and fishing landscape is constantly changing, yet our management and practices stay the same.
The topic here is our draw system
You want to chat about any of the other ones I’ve got nothing but time tonight
Im sitting in the hotel bar, in Hermosillo after another great trip
But regarding our draws. There’s tons that are unattainable, not just to new hunters. But people who have also been applying for 20 plus years.
There is no perfect solution
But there is definitely ones that are a lot better for everyone

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Only committing $28, to apply for seven draws, is pretty much irrelevant to everyone, but committing $200 to $300, is significant to some people.

I think we are trying to say the same thing

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

The problem here is the system is flawed
It’s not doing anyone any good
Everything here could be substantially better and the only reason why it’s not is because of lack of funding and govt bureaucracy.
Are you happy with the way things are going?
Do you think this is the path to success for the future?
When you go to different places you see different policy’s and can see what’s working and what isn’t.
Our hunting and fishing landscape is constantly changing, yet our management and practices stay the same.
The topic here is our draw system
You want to chat about any of the other ones I’ve got nothing but time tonight
Im sitting in the hotel bar, in Hermosillo after another great trip
But regarding our draws. There’s tons that are unattainable, not just to new hunters. But people who have also been applying for 20 plus years.
There is no perfect solution
But there is definitely ones that are a lot better for everyone

60% on this poll don’t think the same way as you!

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Only committing $28, to apply for seven draws, is pretty much irrelevant to everyone, but committing $200 to $300, is significant to some people.

I know that I would not be paying for a non trophy antelope draw
If it cost $30
Or for an archery one
Or for a turkey

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

60% on this poll don’t think the same way as you!

That’s fine
I just think that things can be a lot better for everyone

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I know that I would not be paying for a non trophy antelope draw
If it cost $30
Or for an archery one
Or for a turkey

And I wouldn’t pay $3.50 for those draws

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

And I wouldn’t pay $3.50 for those draws

Good thing it only sets you back a dollar each if you include 3 other people

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

The problem here is the system is flawed
It’s not doing anyone any good
Everything here could be substantially better and the only reason why it’s not is because of lack of funding and govt bureaucracy.
Are you happy with the way things are going?
Do you think this is the path to success for the future?
When you go to different places you see different policy’s and can see what’s working and what isn’t.
Our hunting and fishing landscape is constantly changing, yet our management and practices stay the same.
The topic here is our draw system
You want to chat about any of the other ones I’ve got nothing but time tonight
Im sitting in the hotel bar, in Hermosillo after another great trip
But regarding our draws. There’s tons that are unattainable, not just to new hunters. But people who have also been applying for 20 plus years.
There is no perfect solution
But there is definitely ones that are a lot better for everyone

I'm not saying that you're wrong. I've hunted out-of-province, out-of-country, and off-continent as well. Multiple times. I'm very familiar with how many other jurisdictions are managed, and their systems and policies have afforded me many opportunities, experiences, memories and trophies that I otherwise wouldn't have had if they had mismanaged their resources in the manner that this province has. I've been saying this about our system for years.
But you didn't answer my question.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by albertadave

I'm not saying that you're wrong. I've hunted out-of-province, out-of-country, and off-continent as well. Multiple times. I'm very familiar with how many other jurisdictions are managed, and their systems and policies have afforded me many opportunities, experiences, memories and trophies that I otherwise wouldn't have had if they had mismanaged their resources in the manner that this province has. I've been saying this about our system for years.
But you didn't answer my question.

What’s your question

[albertadave]

.

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I could care less if I hunted in alberta again
.

Originally Posted by albertadave

Ok. Cool. Drop whatever priorities that you have. Keep booking all your outfitted hunts, and checking off those boxes. But if that's actually the case that you don't give a sh!t about Alberta, then why are you on here constantly bi!tching about absolutely everything that happens here in Alberta? Everything from F&W to AFGA to WSFA to "the biologists" to grazing leases to the draw system to pronghorn to sheep management to predators to etc., etc., ect.? It's non-stop. Seriously, if you're done with Alberta, then why???

Originally Posted by marky_mark

What’s your question

Why?

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

60% on this poll don’t think the same way as you!

I'm guessing a big chunk (or most) of that 60% don't understand what a weighted draw system is

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

60% on this poll don’t think the same way as you!

JT is PM and Joe Biden is President.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I think we are trying to say the same thing

Not really, I am talking about committing to buying the tag if drawn, which for several species could total $200-$300 in total for several draws, I am not talking about paying $200-$300 per tag, as that could total $1000 or more for tags gor a year, which for you is nothing, but for some people, is very significant. Hunting is already under attack by the animal rights , and anti firearms groups, I don't want to see it become a sport for the wealthy, or the opposition to hunting will grow even faster. It's easier to defend hunting, when we have youths and seniors hunting every species, rather than the males and trophy animals only being hunted by the wealthier members of society, because only they can afford to hunt those animals.