Important Poll: Hunting Draws in Alberta

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Hobbies cost money. Hunting is a hobby.
If you need to shoot a deer to survive, get a subsistence tag

I appreciate the majority of your posts, but hunting never was intended on being a hobby.. Our social credit needs has many believing that our passion is a hobby and not a way to enjoy the field and fill our freezers.

[Smokinyotes]

Realistically I believe there are very few on this forum that are dependent on wild meat to survive. With the price of fuel and all other associated costs of the gear required to hunt, hunting is not very economical. The majority of us on here hunt for the sport or enjoyment of the outdoors. The cost of a draw application is ridiculously low and makes our wildlife look like they are not valued.
I say get rid of the cost of the draw application and when you apply for a draw your credit card is charged $200. If your not drawn your reimbursed your $200 for the unsuccessful draw.

[cowmanbob]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Like yourself Mark, I have hunted all over this spinning rock we call Earth, so financially for myself and guys like you it is not a problem...

many people are having to choose between simply buying groceries or paying utility bills...

How is this possible? You’d live in darkness and freeze all the pipes in your residence. Or turn the power on and not eat for a month?

[sns2]

Mark, honestly man, you need to to eat a few helpings of humble pie. We are experiencing the worst inflation in many decades. The middle class, the ones you make a sht ton of money off, are being squeezed HARD. Home ownership in Alberta is becoming a pipe dream for many members’ kids. Many parents can no longer help their kids go to post-secondary so they can become hardworking Albertans who can get ahead, as you obviously have.

Yet whenever these threads start your default answer is to raise costs. You tell others who have to wait half a normal hunting career for to pull a tag in their own province, to get on a plane and go elsewhere. Do you have any idea how uncouth and crass that comes across?

Holy hell.

My wife told me yesterday that many people in our community are asking on facebook if neighbours would donate bottles because they can’t afford groceries. Think of that for a second.

I am trying to see the good in everyone, and don’t feel like a debate, cuz I can still afford most of my outdoor pursuits, but you gotta realize that not everyone is fortunate enough to be in your shoes, and please don’t spout off about how hard you worked for everything, cuz people who are not in your situation likely work every bit as hard as you, and likely some work harder. If you are honest with yourself, certainly others helped you get wherever it is that you are. That’s just the truth.

Be humble man.

Be kind.

It’s better than the alternative.

And, I’m not trying to be a jerk, but someone has to say it.

Look inward man.

Be better.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

I appreciate the majority of your posts, but hunting never was intended on being a hobby.. Our social credit needs has many believing that our passion is a hobby and not a way to enjoy the field and fill our freezers.

Trophy hunting has been around for as long as people have hunted for food
Claws and teeth of predators have always been status symbols

[270person]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

That way , you get rid of the riff raff right ? and the people who can afford it will continue as before .
I think your idea sucks. There are many many hunters who are seniors on a tight tight budget who will drop out of the game when it costs them $20 a ticket to gamble on a draw tag simply because they cannot afford it.

My son in law is an avid hunter but you put that added cost to the expense and it would likely force him out. They are a single income family with 2 kids and literally budget every penny

I don't know anyone that hunts because it's cheap. And it shouldn't be. Draw apps and tags are inconsequential costs in the grand scheme of things.

As for the seniors argument I'm not buying it. Currently $17 for a whitetail tag, upland license, and wildlife certificate. 999 a draw for priority for $4 = $21. A raised draw premium to say $10 -20 across the board adds $6 -16 for a total of $27-37. Hardly backbreaking and a lot cheaper than a day on the golf course or puttering along in a boat.

Guys are going to bemoan a rise in draw and tag costs but not the $150 per day to drive and eat? C'mon.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Trophy hunting has been around for as long as people have hunted for food
Claws and teeth of predators have always been status symbols

There is a huge difference between hunting for food, and keeping parts of the animal as a trophy, and actually hunting for the trophy. When people fly around the world trophy hunting, the last thing that they are concerned with is the meat, and many don't even bring anything home, other than the trophy.

[CBintheNorth]

Post #44

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

..........

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell us how increasing the cost of things will shorten up wait times...

And here we are.
It's pretty sad that the only solution for some, in regards to wait times, is to price others out of the market.

What if we did this with healthcare?
I'm willing to bet you would hear all the reasons why that is a bad idea.

I for one, am not willing to spend more than the cost to cover managing and growing the resource. I don't think anyone honestly knows what that number is?
Increasing draw costs is stupid in my opinion. That fee is there to cover the costs associated with running the draw. As far as I'm aware, it is run by a company in the states so most of those dollars don't even stay here in the end.

If the reason we can't have good enforcement and sound management is because license fees are too low, then by all means, they need to go up.
However, there's so much waste in government that increasing fees will only serve to penalize the few while not benefiting the many. I would need to know where those extra dollars are going, and how they're going to benefit wildlife and hunting, before agreeing to a license cost increase.
Just doing so to price some out of the market is as ridiculous as it is asinine.

We older Hunters need to also look out for the next generation. If they lose interest in the sport, it won't be long before it's all over.
Not saying they need to jump the queue, but if a 12 year old has dreams of hunting a trophy antelope in his home province in his lifetime, I don't think that's unreasonable.
We just need to figure out how to make that happen without making it a sell-out to the highest bidder.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

How is this possible? You’d live in darkness and freeze all the pipes in your residence. Or turn the power on and not eat for a month?

Bob, there are so many in this country that have to make these choices, making light of these people is in very poor taste.

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Trophy hunting has been around for as long as people have hunted for food
Claws and teeth of predators have always been status symbols

Sorry Mark, not true.... The origins of hunting was survival, plain and simple....

I have contributed my thoughts, enjoy your day gentlemen.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by 270person

I don't know anyone that hunts because it's cheap. And it shouldn't be. Draw apps and tags are inconsequential costs in the grand scheme of things.

As for the seniors argument I'm not buying it. Currently $17 for a whitetail tag, upland license, and wildlife certificate. 999 a draw for priority for $4 = $21. A raised draw premium to say $10 -20 across the board adds $6 -16 for a total of $27-37. Hardly backbreaking and a lot cheaper than a day on the golf course or puttering along in a boat.

Guys are going to bemoan a rise in draw and tag costs but not the $150 per day to drive and eat? C'mon.

Yes $20 is no biggie but it never stops there does it . Plus the suggestion was $20 per draw app. And if it is no biggie it should have zero effect on the number of draw apps so therefore will do nothing but give more money to the government to waste as it sees fit.

Maybe the more sensible solution is one draw app per family unit and once you win your draw you cannot enter again for that species for 10 years. As well perhaps you should have to hold a hunting licence in Alberta for a min 5 years before you participate in the draw system .

This would open things up considerably

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by sns2

And, I’m not trying to be a jerk, but someone has to say it.

I think you did a better job than most would have.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by sns2

Mark, honestly man, you need to to eat a few helpings of humble pie. We are experiencing the worst inflation in many decades. The middle class, the ones you make a sht ton of money off, are being squeezed HARD. Home ownership in Alberta is becoming a pipe dream for many members’ kids. Many parents can no longer help their kids go to post-secondary so they can become hardworking Albertans who can get ahead, as you obviously have.

Yet whenever these threads start your default answer is to raise costs. You tell others who have to wait half a normal hunting career for to pull a tag in their own province, to get on a plane and go elsewhere. Do you have any idea how uncouth and crass that comes across?

Holy hell.

My wife told me yesterday that many people in our community are asking on facebook if neighbours would donate bottles because they can’t afford groceries. Think of that for a second.

I am trying to see the good in everyone, and don’t feel like a debate, cuz I can still afford most of my outdoor pursuits, but you gotta realize that not everyone is fortunate enough to be in your shoes, and please don’t spout off about how hard you worked for everything, cuz people who are not in your situation likely work every bit as hard as you, and likely some work harder. If you are honest with yourself, certainly others helped you get wherever it is that you are. That’s just the truth.

Be humble man.

Be kind.

It’s better than the alternative.

And, I’m not trying to be a jerk, but someone has to say it.

Look inward man.

Be better.

Slow clap! Thank you!

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I don’t get how he complains about the possibility of tags or draws going up in one post
Then says he spends all summer in 400 watching rams in another one

Your a piece of work! I’m thinking of people living on fixed incomes, kids that don’t have a lot of extra cash.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by sns2

Mark, honestly man, you need to to eat a few helpings of humble pie. We are experiencing the worst inflation in many decades. The middle class, the ones you make a sht ton of money off, are being squeezed HARD. Home ownership in Alberta is becoming a pipe dream for many members’ kids. Many parents can no longer help their kids go to post-secondary so they can become hardworking Albertans who can get ahead, as you obviously have.

Yet whenever these threads start your default answer is to raise costs. You tell others who have to wait half a normal hunting career for to pull a tag in their own province, to get on a plane and go elsewhere. Do you have any idea how uncouth and crass that comes across?

Holy hell.

My wife told me yesterday that many people in our community are asking on facebook if neighbours would donate bottles because they can’t afford groceries. Think of that for a second.

I am trying to see the good in everyone, and don’t feel like a debate, cuz I can still afford most of my outdoor pursuits, but you gotta realize that not everyone is fortunate enough to be in your shoes, and please don’t spout off about how hard you worked for everything, cuz people who are not in your situation likely work every bit as hard as you, and likely some work harder. If you are honest with yourself, certainly others helped you get wherever it is that you are. That’s just the truth.

Be humble man.

Be kind.

It’s better than the alternative.

And, I’m not trying to be a jerk, but someone has to say it.

Look inward man.

Be better.

Very well said sns2!!

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Your a piece of work! I’m thinking of people living on fixed incomes, kids that don’t have a lot of extra cash.

What exactly are we depriving them of by raising the price of a trophy bull elk tag and the cost to apply for it? This discussion is ridiculous. My oldest son turns 19 this week. We have hunted together since he was 12. You want to know how many trophy tags he has drawn? I’ll give you a hint. It starts with a “z” and rhymes with hero.

So again I ask. What in the wide world of sports are we depriving people of again?

Quite frankly raising the price of some tags is how we will keep others in check. Mark my words on that one.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by 270person

I don't know anyone that hunts because it's cheap. And it shouldn't be. Draw apps and tags are inconsequential costs in the grand scheme of things.

As for the seniors argument I'm not buying it. Currently $17 for a whitetail tag, upland license, and wildlife certificate. 999 a draw for priority for $4 = $21. A raised draw premium to say $10 -20 across the board adds $6 -16 for a total of $27-37. Hardly backbreaking and a lot cheaper than a day on the golf course or puttering along in a boat.

Guys are going to bemoan a rise in draw and tag costs but not the $150 per day to drive and eat? C'mon.

It must be nice living at home for free and not having any mortgage payment, utility cost, food cost, insurance cost.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

It must be nice living at home for free and not having any mortgage payment, utility cost, food cost, insurance cost.

That is a horrible thing to say. You know nothing of this kid’s circumstances.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

What exactly are we depriving them of by raising the price of a trophy bull elk tag and the cost to apply for it? This discussion is ridiculous. My oldest son turns 19 this week. We have hunted together since he was 12. You want to know how many trophy tags he has drawn? I’ll give you a hint. It starts with a “z” and rhymes with hero.

So again I ask. What in the wide world of sports are we depriving people of again?

Quite frankly raising the price of some tags is how we will keep others in check. Mark my words on that one.

Why didn’t you do a youth partner tag then and he would have experienced a trophy tag!

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

That is a horrible thing to say. You know nothing of this kid’s circumstances.

Is it?

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

That is a horrible thing to say. You know nothing of this kid’s circumstances.

270person is not a kid, he is a senior. You may have him mixed up with 270hunter, who is 15 and apparently 6' 3" tall.

I have to always look at those user names, so I know who is posting. Although frankly, their manner of posting and communicating is very opposite, I can usually tell by content and whether the post is respectful, or snarky.

[densa44]

But I have some skin in the game. I live just north of Cochrane and I have 5 moose, 2 cows, 2 large calves and a young bull frequent by back yard. I have many white tailed deer living in the neighbourhood.
I'm guessing that many tags that are purchased are not used, I'd like to see some of these animals go to hunters and not killed by vehicles on hwy 22.
So I'm hoping that you fellows can come up with a system that harvests as many animals as the populations will support. Keep trying but I sense that the population is expanding. The moose are eating my new spruce trees.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Why didn’t you do a youth partner tag then and he would have experienced a trophy tag!

We have. But I can’t anymore now can I? Nor does it change one thing regarding the time it takes to draw a tag. Again, what are we depriving people of exactly?

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by sns2

Mark, honestly man, you need to to eat a few helpings of humble pie. We are experiencing the worst inflation in many decades. The middle class, the ones you make a sht ton of money off, are being squeezed HARD. Home ownership in Alberta is becoming a pipe dream for many members’ kids. Many parents can no longer help their kids go to post-secondary so they can become hardworking Albertans who can get ahead, as you obviously have.

Yet whenever these threads start your default answer is to raise costs. You tell others who have to wait half a normal hunting career for to pull a tag in their own province, to get on a plane and go elsewhere. Do you have any idea how uncouth and crass that comes across?

Holy hell.

My wife told me yesterday that many people in our community are asking on facebook if neighbours would donate bottles because they can’t afford groceries. Think of that for a second.

I am trying to see the good in everyone, and don’t feel like a debate, cuz I can still afford most of my outdoor pursuits, but you gotta realize that not everyone is fortunate enough to be in your shoes, and please don’t spout off about how hard you worked for everything, cuz people who are not in your situation likely work every bit as hard as you, and likely some work harder. If you are honest with yourself, certainly others helped you get wherever it is that you are. That’s just the truth.

Be humble man.

Be kind.

It’s better than the alternative.

And, I’m not trying to be a jerk, but someone has to say it.

Look inward man.

Be better.

Dude I’m not thinking of myself here
Would your kids ever have a chance to do a 410 sheep hunt the way the draws are now?
This topic is hunting draws
If we want to talk about home ownership and things like that I’m game for that too
Everyone talks about people who have a hard time getting by
I can’t find guys to work starting at $25/hr for a labourer
Zero experience, zero training
People don’t want to work
And the ones do reply, have a problem with working on weekends or evenings
Cuts into their personal time too much, affects their work life balance

You’ve obviously never owned your own business or had to worry about money
I’ve been the guy who has had to pull every nickel out of my lines of credit, credit cards, heloc etc to pay my employees, pay for the loans on my equipment, etc
Once, my main client decided not to pay me for a couple years.
Another, the company I was working for had their contract terminated
You don’t know how many times the only thing I’ve had in my house is ramen noodles or kd
I’m am in no shape or form an eliteist

So I’m speaking as someone who has been as broke as a joke
Saying $20/draw isn’t unreasonable

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

270person is not a kid, he is a senior. You may have him mixed up with 270hunter, who is 15 and apparently 6' 3" tall.

I have to always look at those user names, so I know who is posting. Although frankly, their manner of posting and communicating is very opposite, I can usually tell by content and whether the post is respectful, or snarky.

I was thinking of the wrong fella as well, sorry about that!

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Your a piece of work! I’m thinking of people living on fixed incomes, kids that don’t have a lot of extra cash.

I’m a piece of work?
Seniors don’t pay for wildlife certificates
Kids have parents
They can go pick bottles in the ditch, mow peoples lawns, wash their windows, shovel their snow
Where there’s a will there’s a way
If it’s too much work to earn extra money to pay for a draw or tag
Why should we subsidize it for them

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

270person is not a kid, he is a senior. You may have him mixed up with 270hunter, who is 15 and apparently 6' 3" tall.

I have to always look at those user names, so I know who is posting. Although frankly, their manner of posting and communicating is very opposite, I can usually tell by content and whether the post is respectful, or snarky.

Ya 6’3 at 15 lol
That would have been nice
Those long legs will cover a lot of ground in the yukon this summer I’m sure

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Dude I’m not thinking of myself here
Would your kids ever have a chance to do a 410 sheep hunt the way the draws are now?
This topic is hunting draws
If we want to talk about home ownership and things like that I’m game for that too
Everyone talks about people who have a hard time getting by
I can’t find guys to work starting at $25/hr for a labourer
Zero experience, zero training
People don’t want to work
And the ones do reply, have a problem with working on weekends or evenings
Cuts into their personal time too much, affects their work life balance

You’ve obviously never owned your own business or had to worry about money
I’ve been the guy who has had to pull every nickel out of my lines of credit, credit cards, heloc etc to pay my employees, pay for the loans on my equipment, etc
Once, my main client decided not to pay me for a couple years.
Another, the company I was working for had their contract terminated
You don’t know how many times the only thing I’ve had in my house is ramen noodles or kd
I’m am in no shape or form an eliteist

So I’m speaking as someone who has been as broke as a joke
Saying $20/draw isn’t unreasonable

Any time a post starts with 'Dude' you can almost bet the condescension is gonna flow.

And it did. I can only suggest you take a break from the keyboard for a while, it's family day. I already had to delete your pizzing contest with Leo, but you seem determined to keep engaging in more.

Give it rest.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by densa44

But I have some skin in the game. I live just north of Cochrane and I have 5 moose, 2 cows, 2 large calves and a young bull frequent by back yard. I have many white tailed deer living in the neighbourhood.
I'm guessing that many tags that are purchased are not used, I'd like to see some of these animals go to hunters and not killed by vehicles on hwy 22.
So I'm hoping that you fellows can come up with a system that harvests as many animals as the populations will support. Keep trying but I sense that the population is expanding. The moose are eating my new spruce trees.

The problem here is probably a lack of access to hunting opportunities more so than lack of licenses being issued

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Hobbies cost money. Hunting is a hobby.
If you need to shoot a deer to survive, get a subsistence tag

To most hunters, hunting most certainly is Not a hobby.
Your dismissive perspective will lead to the quick end of hunting under today's cultural changes.

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Trophy hunting has been around for as long as people have hunted for food
Claws and teeth of predators have always been status symbols

I suppose there may have always been the Odd person that Trophy hunted for status.
These Odd people were an outlier then, just as they are today.
Hope you understand where you fit in.
Society certainly does not owe these people a management system to satisfy them at the cost to others.

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

CH would be more than capable of gathering and presenting that data. But he is spot on as to the need for it in relation to this thread. Be careful who you dismiss out of hand without full disclosure.

Hey Chuck,

Care to take another kick at the football?



-------------

Here we are.... getting nowhere.

I'll say it again Chuckar Hunter, without providing data this conversation is a dead end.

[Smoky buck]

Nothing wrong with realistic increases in draw applications cost but only if it is directed towards F&W not general revenue

The fact of the matter is a small increase would not affect hunters applying for draws. If someone is truly hunting to save on meat they likely are applying for limited draws right near home to be coast effective. They are not traveling or looking for trophy animals, they are definitely not spending days road hunting at these fuel prices either. Really hunting for meat is only cost effective close to home with a fast success rate

Meat may be a lot of hunters harvest goal but truly most hunt for the experiences we have, tradition, to spend time with friends/family or as a personal challenge. Most won’t be save much if anything on meat costs once they honestly break down expenses

Let’s really be honest why we hunt because the truth is meat or antlers or horns, or skulls they are nothing but a by product of a successful hunt.

Really you could make it 50$ a draw and there will still be demand because hunters are going to invest in a chance to hunt. They may prioritize what the apply for and definitely cry about it but they will apply

But an increase is only worth while if it will be used to benefit wildlife