Hunting bullet construction

[Pathfinder76]

Had a chat with a good friend and long time hunting partner this morning. We are both gun nuts and discuss reloading, rifles, and bullets all the time. He was just talking to a friend about a bull elk they killed last fall and the bullet failure that proceeded them successfully harvesting the animal. Apparently the bull was shot on the point of the shoulder with a 270 and a 140gr Accubond. The bullet failed to penetrate the chest cavity and a follow up rodeo ensued.

This isn’t the first time I’ve seen or heard of this happening with bonded bullets. In fact another friend had it happen in Africa with a 225gr Accubond from a 338 WM. That one ended up being a two day tracking job. That one ticked him off enough that he showed up at Nosler headquarters and had a heart to heart with Bob Nosler himself.

I have opinions on the matter myself and have almost come to the point of demanding some mechanical “fail safe” mechanism built into any bullet for game.

It’s a controversial topic I know, but what say you?

[crazy_davey]

An internet discussion about Accubombs? Forget it…

The experts will be along shortly to tell you how flawless Acubombs worked on the doe they shot last year and how they are the best bullet ever

[Dick284]

I say, if you don’t like it don’t use it.
Opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one, while some stink more than others.

It’s up to the end user to make their choice, what do expect to have happen?

You know damned well how this thread will degenerate Chuck, so why bother.

The “mono metal fan club” will trumpet their side, the “enter and grenade” fan club will bolster their side, and the “shoot them through the lung crowd” will admonish the “bone shooters”.

I don’t shoot bone(intentionally) and I only run mono metals in 2 rifles, while the rest use traditional cup/core bullets, frankly a Hornady Interlock is for the most part, served me so well over such a broad spectrum of cartridges and game, I seem to begin load development with that bullet and wouldn’t ya know it that’s often where I end up.

[Salavee]

I think excess terminal velocity is the worst enemy of any bullet's performance, except the monos. With that said, Muzzle velocities exceeding 2800 will not add to the terminal performance of any bullet, partitioned, bonded, or C&C at nominal hunting ranges.
Here we go .

[stob]

Originally Posted by Salavee

I think excess terminal velocity is the worst enemy of any bullet's performance, except the monos. With that said, Muzzle velocities exceeding 2800 will not add to the terminal performance of any bullet, partitioned, bonded, or C&C at nominal hunting ranges.
Here we go .

What he said!!!

[elkhunter11]

I use different bullets, for different applications. The cartridges where impact velocities will likely be above 3000fps get monometal bullets, and the rest get jacketed bullets.

[cowmanbob]

Another reason to go with a chest shot.

[buckman]

My Son killed a bull elk front quartering shot at around 250 yards.He it it in the Humerus (heaviest bone in the body) It shattered the bone, went through the lungs, and out the other side.It was with a 270 Winchester,150 grain Nosler Partition handload, 2900 fps.

Have tried other bullets,but now use the NP only,tried,tested and proven to penetrate and kill.

[bushpilot]

The more I hear about bullet failures and the particulars in regarding to how the bullet failed the more I am believer the failure begins at the shooter level. Either by not understanding how their selected projectile will perform terminally, the shot angle and opportunity presented or by not being able to place the shot accurately in field positions, conditions and ranges to be able to deliver a quick humane manner. There is a reason that there are a multiple of bullet designs out there for different conditions or desired terminal results required by the shooter.

So pick your poison, practice up and make good decisions when it comes to game shooting. Myself having been a monometal userer for the past couple of decades have decided this year to try both standard cup and cores along with higher frangible vld bullets for my hunting purposes. Why? No reason but to see the first hand results from the other side of the spectrum.

[catnthehat]

I have been using monometal's in my .303 for quite a few years about 12, I think and have killed quite a few animals with it using mostly lung shots with the exception of a couple, one square in the neck and one in the shoulder.
No animals went more than a few yards except for one heart shot deer that went maybe 15 yards.
I used pretty much all cup and core bullets for over 40 years, and never a partition, but did use a few Hot Cores , Interlocks and a mess of Game Kings .

The only actual failure I ever had was with a reliable cup and core 140 grain bullet from a 280 Remington , a shot that should have killed a deer with one shot , but it broke up and I had to track it down the next day to recover it.
Necropsy showed it broke up with part of it going the full length between the hide and ribs, exciting and breaking the right rear leg at the hock.
Doesn't mean I will never use it again , however because tgat was the only bullet failure I have ever experienced .
Cat

[skidderman]

Between my son and I several elk & the odd moose all shot with accubonds and not one failure. In fact one of them went through two thick willows & still killed the elk. Het them in the right place and they die.

[huntinstuff]

A couple years ago after experimenting with reloading 180g accubonds, I found they were the most accurate in my gun with 57g of RL22.

So I scrambled and begged and managed a couple boxes of 180g.

I dont shoot much past 300 yds if ever. I punch paper at 300, but in reality, when hunting Im 200yds tops.

Mine have all gone thru the deer Ive shot. All broadside easy shots.

99% of my hunting is meat deer. So for me, although I dont have any recovered bullets, they work for me because they are my most accurate bullet Ive reloaded.

[silver]

I have had good luck with partitions however the shedding of the front half of the bullet leaves me wondering if one of the bonded cores might not be better.
A friend used a mono metal bullet on what he said was a long shot, no expansion. it took another round to put it down.

[JD848]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

A couple years ago after experimenting with reloading 180g accubonds, I found they were the most accurate in my gun with 57g of RL22.

So I scrambled and begged and managed a couple boxes of 180g.

I dont shoot much past 300 yds if ever. I punch paper at 300, but in reality, when hunting Im 200yds tops.

Mine have all gone thru the deer Ive shot. All broadside easy shots.

99% of my hunting is meat deer. So for me, although I dont have any recovered bullets, they work for me because they are my most accurate bullet Ive reloaded.

X10 HS, I'm like you I like to use the door also instead of walking through walls , damn hard on the mellon those 2x4,s, Shooting front quarters point blanks is about as strange as the wall.

Broadside is very easy ,so is the door .

Cheers
JD

[Bushrat]

Don't matter what bullet you use if you shoot enough critters with it sooner or later somethings going to go wrong. If there were a perfect bullet everyone would use it. There isn't.

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by crazy_davey

An internet discussion about Accubombs? Forget it…

The experts will be along shortly to tell you how flawless Acubombs worked on the doe they shot last year and how they are the best bullet ever

The elk I shot this fall will be glad to hear how my "accubombs" don't work! Bullet went through both sides and kept on going so finding evidence for the elk to present to Mr Nosler might be a bit difficult. Come to think of it, every elk I've ever killed was with an accubond. I guess that means this is now a class action lawsuit

[oldgutpile]

YUP, too many other variables to contend with.
Bullet speed, bullet placement, and range. I tend to shoot heavy for caliber bullets, which tends to keep the speed moderate as well. Never lost an elk, and I have shot them from 50- 300 yards with everything from 30-06 to .375. Most of my loads seem kinda slow to most I see posted and bragged on, but they work. More importantly, I shoot within my limits, and place my shots.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Don't matter what bullet you use if you shoot enough critters with it sooner or later somethings going to go wrong. If there were a perfect bullet everyone would use it. There isn't.

This is true.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by silver

I have had good luck with partitions however the shedding of the front half of the bullet leaves me wondering if one of the bonded cores might not be better.
A friend used a mono metal bullet on what he said was a long shot, no expansion. it took another round to put it down.

The Parition is an H mantel style bullet and it is designed to lose most of the front half of the core

The copper bulkhead keeps the rear portion intact.
As far as monometal bullet expansion goes. Most need to be above 1800 FPS to work properly .
I had good expansion on my 350 plus yard shot a few years back with a bit of rib on the offside only
That was with a .312 150 grain TSX with a muzzle velocity of 2774 FPS.
Cat

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by buckman

My Son killed a bull elk front quartering shot at around 250 yards.He it it in the Humerus (heaviest bone in the body) It shattered the bone, went through the lungs, and out the other side.It was with a 270 Winchester,150 grain Nosler Partition handload, 2900 fps.

Have tried other bullets,but now use the NP only,tried,tested and proven to penetrate and kill.

Tested once and proven, thanks for the laugh

[Bulseye]

I say go for headshot.

[waldedw]

Where's stinky when you need him, shoot match bullets out of a 6.5 grendel and spine shoot everything

[buckman]

Originally Posted by crazy_davey

Tested once and proven, thanks for the laugh

I have shot dozens of big game animals with the NP,including my share of Elk and Moose It has always performed as designed. I have friends who have come back to it for the same reason,it penetrates and keeps going. Hunters can choose what they want.On the initial subject of the Accubond,it happens to be my second choice of bullet.

As for proven,its been around for decades and still going strong.

[CanuckShooter]

The only failure I've had was with a Fusion, just blew apart into fragments, probably shouldn't have used it on an elk.

Have had lots of good experiences with Hornady BTSP & SST, and Nosler Accubonds.

[honda610]

I have seen ttsx not open twice on wt deer one was at 35 yards one was at 398 rifle was a 7mm rem muzzle velocity of 2850. Had a interlock 6mm 100gr completely separate on a massive wt doe my nephew shot 200m distance. 3k fps muzzle velocity. Same 7mm had interlocks put down a large bull moose at 22 yards massive penetration and opened up like a flap jack and stayed together, moose was dead. People forget projectiles are made by man. @#$% happens when you hunt long enough.
I learned barnes need to be screaming to open so load at least 20 gr less of a projectile weight than you normally do. Still doesn't account for the fmj action on the danger close wt.
Most hunters especially young ones watch to much wild TV and don't take the time to learn animal anatomy, don't butcher there own animals to find spent projectiles. And the biggest thing is not enough range time to learn there guns and there own limits. When I worked up north I heard more idiots think the 6.5 creepmore was a 1000 m elk gun.
Way to much weekend warriors out there.
Anyways rant over gonna have a coffee and load some .308 and .257 weatherby.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by honda610

I have seen ttsx not open twice on wt deer one was at 35 yards one was at 398 rifle was a 7mm rem muzzle velocity of 2850. Had a interlock 6mm 100gr completely separate on a massive wt doe my nephew shot 200m distance. 3k fps muzzle velocity. Same 7mm had interlocks put down a large bull moose at 22 yards massive penetration and opened up like a flap jack and stayed together, moose was dead. People forget projectiles are made by man. @#$% happens when you hunt long enough.
I learned barnes need to be screaming to open so load at least 20 gr less of a projectile weight than you normally do. Still doesn't account for the fmj action on the danger close wt.
Most hunters especially young ones watch to much wild TV and don't take the time to learn animal anatomy, don't butcher there own animals to find spent projectiles. And the biggest thing is not enough range time to learn there guns and there own limits. When I worked up north I heard more idiots think the 6.5 creepmore was a 1000 m elk gun.
Way to much weekend warriors out there.
Anyways rant over gonna have a coffee and load some .308 and .257 weatherby.

Excellent post and very spot on.

The only thing with Barnes is you can drop 20%-25% in bullet weight to get similar performance to say a Partition or similar designed lead contained bullet. The dyed in the wool 180grain 30-06 shooters were the scourge of the fmj behaviour with Barnes bullets. Barnes work best with impact velocities of 2000 fps and up…. Most of these dyed in the wool types were often hardly getting 2600 fps with their old cup/core 180’s, many loads were closer to 2500 fps. (chronographs proved this)

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Excellent post and very spot on.

The only thing with Barnes is you can drop 20%-25% in bullet weight to get similar performance to say a Partition or similar designed lead contained bullet. The dyed in the wool 180grain 30-06 shooters were the scourge of the fmj behaviour with Barnes bullets. Barnes work best with impact velocities of 2000 fps and up…. Most of these dyed in the wool types were often hardly getting 2600 fps with their old cup/core 180’s, many loads were closer to 2500 fps. (chronographs proved this)

Most complaints that I have heard about monometals not expanding, was exactly as you describe, not enough impact velocity. I actually prefer 2500fps impact velocity with monometals.

[Pathfinder76]

Grandpa’s 30-06 velocities need to be buried with him. Lol.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by honda610

I have seen ttsx not open twice on wt deer one was at 35 yards one was at 398 rifle was a 7mm rem muzzle velocity of 2850. Had a interlock 6mm 100gr completely separate on a massive wt doe my nephew shot 200m distance. 3k fps muzzle velocity. Same 7mm had interlocks put down a large bull moose at 22 yards massive penetration and opened up like a flap jack and stayed together, moose was dead. People forget projectiles are made by man. @#$% happens when you hunt long enough.
I learned barnes need to be screaming to open so load at least 20 gr less of a projectile weight than you normally do. Still doesn't account for the fmj action on the danger close wt.

MY Barnes 150's in .311 leave the muzzle at 2774FPS, closet deer was under 20 yards, furthest was well over 360 yards, the velocity would have been somewhere in the 1900-1800 FPS range.
They are reliable enough for me that I just picked up another 100.
They may not work for everyone, but they sure have proven themselves in my single shot Ruger!
Cat

[Pathfinder76]

The longest shot I have ever made on an animal was 560 yds on a big bull Elk. I was using a 270 with 130 gr TSX’s. He went nowhere, no bone was struck, and that bullet opened.