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11-17-2010, 09:32 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,112
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I have the plain 270 and it is hands down a great deer round, but the OP mentioned moose and the extra puch provided by the short mag is a consideration.
I like the comparison to 30-06 vs 300 mag the guys with the 06 are not all that much handicapped but there is a measuable difference.
In general I am moving away from magnums (though I have yet to sell my 338) but I could see my self buying the 270wsm, I do spend alot of time in the short grass and open spaces.
What is recoil like with the 270wsm.
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11-17-2010, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aulrich
What is recoil like with the 270wsm.
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Like a 7RM.
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11-17-2010, 10:22 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rimbey, AB
Posts: 671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aulrich
What is recoil like with the 270wsm.
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Like a 270 Win if loaded down and a 7mmRem/SAUM if loaded hot.
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11-17-2010, 10:50 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
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OK so a bit of snap, but not a flinch machine, sort of where I was figuring it would fit in.
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11-17-2010, 11:13 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,189
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ha, funny bunch today
i will buck the trend, i shoot a 270 wsm but i'd recomend the regular .270 over it 9 out of 10 times.....for regular hunting at regular ranges why deal with the extra cost, muzzle blast, recoil and less ammo choices/availability in more remote centers?......only two main reasons to have the wsm version i believe.....
1. ultralight weight rifle using short action
2. need the extra 150 to 200 yrds of range potential in a longer range build
otherwise....if your going to stay 500 yrds and less and want to likely be more accurate because its easier on the shoulder etc. etc. then to me its a no brainer....go for the regular .270 and be done with it
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11-17-2010, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote
less ammo choices/availability in more remote centers?......
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Come on Stinky...not you too....lol
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11-17-2010, 11:35 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: slave lake
Posts: 4,221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
You'd have trouble getting factory 270WSM velocity out of a .270 Win. In fact, getting within 200fps is about as close as you can get while maintaining accuracy. My .270WSM tops 3200fps with 140 grain bullets and factory ammo.
270WSM shells can be found at any decent gun shop or sporting goods store.
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Just a question Sheephunter but that extra 200 fps... is that with a WSM using a 24" barrel? What are the balistics like in a 22" barrel? I know they claim that the short mags work better in short barrels than regular magnums but I would be interested to see exactly how much faster a WSM is out of a 22" barrel than the regular .270win. Not interested in the theoretical BS but if you or anyone have some first hand, verrifyed, knowlege of this I'd love to hear it. Cronographing a couple brands of 270 and 300 wsm rounds out of 22 and 24" barrels and comparing your findings to the 30-06 and 270 win in the same length barrels would make an interesting artical. Maby even see how close the hornady light mag amo gets to the wsm amo out of those same barrel lengths.
As it is I dont buy the shorter, lighter gun argument, at least in the case of the .270. It seems to me that you would just be replaceing a small amount of chamber length with more barrel or else you would be getting only a little more speed and a lot more muzzle blast. Set me straight if I'm wrong. BTW although the .270 WSM is now 200 fps faster than the .270 win this was not always so. The factory.270 win loads used to be a fair bit hotter than they are now. Not sure why they loaded them down, maby to try and make that imaginary performance gap look a little less imaginary? Once again set me straight if im wrong.
Last edited by Cal; 11-17-2010 at 11:48 AM.
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11-17-2010, 11:41 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
Come on Stinky...not you too....lol
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well ok, i might be stretching on that a bit but i did check federal webpage quickly and found seven wsm offerings and twelve for the regular .270......so i guess maybe i should just say there are near twice as many ammo choices available for the .270.....i suppose if you reload who cares on that part but the other reasons to choose a regular 270 over a wsm are much more valid anyhow
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11-17-2010, 11:47 AM
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Cal, what I do know is that I can get 200fps more out of a 2" shorter barrel when comparing the 270 and 270WSM. So, add in the shorter action and less barrel and you have a shorter, lighter gun. I haven't compared the magnums but from all the reading I've done, it seems a 300WSM can match a 300WM and the same for the 7mm with a 2" shorter barrel. No big surprise there as the fatter case should be a bit more effcient and truthfully, the loss of velocity per inch of barrel in all cartridges isn't that significant. It's not hard to believe that the WSM can make up 50fps...at least for me.
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11-17-2010, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote
well ok, i might be stretching on that a bit but i did check federal webpage quickly and found seven wsm offerings and twelve for the regular .270......so i guess maybe i should just say there are near twice as many ammo choices available for the .270.....i suppose if you reload who cares on that part but the other reasons to choose a regular 270 over a wsm are much more valid anyhow
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LOL...if you can't find one your gun likes and suits your hunting style out of those 7, there's something wrong. I do find the factory WSM offerings are primarily premium type bullets. I suspect the bulk of the additional 270 offerings are not.
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11-17-2010, 11:50 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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Posts: 4,221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
What I do know is that I can get 200fps more out of a 2" shorter barrel when comparing the 270 and 270WSM. So, add in the shorter action and less barrel and you have a shorter, lighter gun. I haven't compared the magnums but from all the reading I've done, it seems a 300WSM can match a 300WM and the same for the 7mm with a 2" shorter barrel. No big surprise there as the fatter case should be a bit more effcient and truthfully, the loss of velocity per inch of barrel in all cartridges isn't that significant. It's not hard to believe that the WSM can make up 50fps...at least for me.
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So just to clarify that extra 200 fps the WSM gets is out of a 22" barrel as compared to a 270 win out of a 22" barrel? Not doubting you just asking
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11-17-2010, 11:52 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
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Posts: 5,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal
As it is I dont buy the shorter, lighter gun argument, at least in the case of the .270. It seems to me that you would just be replaceing a small amount of chamber length with more barrel or else you would be getting only a little more speed and a lot more muzzle blast. Set me straight if I'm wrong.
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case capacity is about 20% more from memory, and if looking to maintain a certain velocity threshold at distance (ie; 1800-2000 fps) then the .270 wsm will do it another 20-25% further....so in my eyes its approx. 20% more cartridge.....however, its every bit of that in recoil also, and price out some factory ammo it might be there too....so, is the extra horsepower necessary in any way is the question a guy really needs to ask? ie; long range capability imo...so not sure if i'm setting you straight at all.....just maybe giving a different way to look at the difference and where it might come in handy....as there is a for sure difference between the too! i had a similar weight rifle with 22" barrel in .270 before my current one in .270 wsm....i wanted and put up with the extra horsepower for long range potential....but the old rifle didn't require a muzzle brake....the new one hits way harder without the brake.....light rifles btw....around 7 lbs scoped....my short mag without brake feels like Dad's 300 win mag model 70 probably around 1.5 lbs heavier gun....i don't like either of them sans brake
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11-17-2010, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal
So just to clarify that extra 200 fps the WSM gets is out of a 22" barrel as compared to a 270 win out of a 22" barrel? Not doubting you just asking
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I did most of my testing out of a 22 7/16 barrel on the WSM as compared to a 28" barrel on the 270 Win but I suspect there isn't much velocity gain from 24-28" on a 270 Win.
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11-17-2010, 11:59 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
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Posts: 5,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
LOL...if you can't find one your gun likes and suits your hunting style out of those 7, there's something wrong. I do find the factory WSM offerings are primarily premium type bullets. I suspect the bulk of the additional 270 offerings are not.
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i agree with that, and that was only from one ammo manufacturer.....and yeah more of the wsm offerings are premium forsure, priced like it too and can't argue with performance or accuracy at all, i guess of all the newer cartridges to come down the pipe in past decade etc. the .270 wsm is most likely to be found on remote shelves and most likely to last the test of time, great cartridge imo, love mine, but i loved my .270 also and feel it fits most hunters criteria much much better than the magnum version....extreme cartridges for extreme dudes imo
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11-17-2010, 12:05 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: slave lake
Posts: 4,221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote
i agree with that, and that was only from one ammo manufacturer.....and yeah more of the wsm offerings are premium forsure, priced like it too and can't argue with performance or accuracy at all, i guess of all the newer cartridges to come down the pipe in past decade etc. the .270 wsm is most likely to be found on remote shelves and most likely to last the test of time, great cartridge imo, love mine, but i loved my .270 also and feel it fits most hunters criteria much much better than the magnum version....extreme cartridges for extreme dudes imo
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The willingness to engage in extreme hunting activity is what makes a dude extreme, plenty of *****s shooting extreme cartridges.
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11-17-2010, 01:24 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,189
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agree with that, in hunting period (the clothes/the cartidges etc.) too often you see more show than go
its all good though, keeps the world turning
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11-17-2010, 01:36 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
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I could never understand the allure of the 270 WSM over the 7MM version. Maybe SC and the longer range shooters could enlighten me on this one as LR shooting seems to be a reason given to going to the WSM's.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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11-17-2010, 01:42 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Beaverlodge
Posts: 1,764
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My buddy and I compared all three 270's side by side. Using a F1 chrono, 130gr accubonds and all shot within 30 min.
270 win
Browning A-bolt-23" barrel-(I think-my buddies rifle)
3 shot average-2933fps
270wsm
Savage FLHSS16-24" barrel
3 shot average-3308fps
270 Weatherby
26" Gilliard barrel on rem. action
3 shot average-3426fps
All were handloads. The wsm and the bee are mine and they are close to max loads. I'm not sure what my buddy was loading up for for his 270 win.
And of course your mileage may vary.
__________________
Hunting isn't a matter of life and death......it's more important than that
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11-17-2010, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
I could never understand the allure of the 270 WSM over the 7MM version. Maybe SC and the longer range shooters could enlighten me on this one as LR shooting seems to be a reason given to going to the WSM's.
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No practical reasons...sometimes people just do things because.
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11-17-2010, 01:54 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
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270wsm !!!!!! there are some on here that would rather drive a truck without power steering and be happy... the WSM's are an improvement and bring more options ...if you wanna stay with ur 06 and 270 win do so ....
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11-17-2010, 02:02 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
Cal, what I do know is that I can get 200fps more out of a 2" shorter barrel when comparing the 270 and 270WSM. So, add in the shorter action and less barrel and you have a shorter, lighter gun. I haven't compared the magnums but from all the reading I've done, it seems a 300WSM can match a 300WM and the same for the 7mm with a 2" shorter barrel. No big surprise there as the fatter case should be a bit more effcient and truthfully, the loss of velocity per inch of barrel in all cartridges isn't that significant. It's not hard to believe that the WSM can make up 50fps...at least for me.
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this explains the reason for the marketing of the WSM's and if anyone can't understand or beleive this , its because you have a "personel bias" and can"t except change..lol...in other words let go of your 30-06 or 270 win and get NEW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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11-17-2010, 02:14 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,112
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I think the 7mm wsm has too much competition from all the other super duper mags. The 270 wsm has more of a substancial slice of the imaginary ballistics pie.
The 270 had more penned up upgrade market think of all the guys who think 277 is the best diameter out there and had no "magnum" of there own other than the not very accessable Weatherby.
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11-17-2010, 02:18 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aulrich
I think the 7mm wsm has too much competition from all the other super duper mags. The 270 wsm has more of a substancial slice of the imaginary ballistics pie.
The 270 had more penned up upgrade market think of all the guys who think 277 is the best diameter out there and had no "magnum" of there own other than the not very accessable Weatherby.
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there is no "imanginary ballistics" about the wsm's..only hopefull none owners...lol...
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11-17-2010, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aulrich
I think the 7mm wsm has too much competition from all the other super duper mags. The 270 wsm has more of a substancial slice of the imaginary ballistics pie.
The 270 had more penned up upgrade market think of all the guys who think 277 is the best diameter out there and had no "magnum" of there own other than the not very accessable Weatherby.
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One of the marketing dudes for Winchester told me that Americans won't embrace metric cartridges. Sure the 7RM beat the odds but overall, putting a metric designation to a cartridge is a kiss of death. And as you say, I think the lore of the 270 Win worked in favour of the WSM as well. You can still own a .270 like Jack but it's a super-charged magnum. Very little to do with practicality and everything to do with marketing and an imperial based system of measurement.
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11-17-2010, 02:22 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Peace Country (again)
Posts: 3,495
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Does anybody "need" a reason to buy a particular rifle?
If you own a 220 Swift, is it wrong to buy a 223 WSM or 22-250
Buy it, shoot it and have fun...who cares if it fills a gap that doesn;'t exist..
so do short sleeve shirts...just roll up your long sleeves...lol
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11-17-2010, 02:23 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Peace Country (again)
Posts: 3,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
One of the marketing dudes for Winchester told me that Americans won't embrace metric cartridges. Sure the 7RM beat the odds but overall, putting a metric designation to a cartridge is a kiss of death. And as you say, I think the lore of the 270 Win worked in favour of the WSM as well. You can still own a .270 like Jack but it's a super-charged magnum. Very little to do with practicality and everything to do with marketing and an imperial based system of measurement.
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look accross the pond...
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11-17-2010, 02:27 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.
look accross the pond...
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U right ARN but SH..nailed it ...on metric and imperial ...
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11-17-2010, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.
look accross the pond...
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Look where the main market is for medium bore fancy new whizz bang magnums! It ain't across the pond.
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11-17-2010, 02:54 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: slave lake
Posts: 4,221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter
One of the marketing dudes for Winchester told me that Americans won't embrace metric cartridges. Sure the 7RM beat the odds but overall, putting a metric designation to a cartridge is a kiss of death. And as you say, I think the lore of the 270 Win worked in favour of the WSM as well. You can still own a .270 like Jack but it's a super-charged magnum. Very little to do with practicality and everything to do with marketing and an imperial based system of measurement.
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I know that in general your statement about metric cartridges is true, but the 7mm seems to be the exception. Most of the 7mm magnums seem to be about as popular as their 30 cal counter parts. I cant help but think that if the .280 had been called the 7mm-06 it might have done better.
I think the .270 did beter than any of the other WSM's because it was the only one with any balistic advantage over the round it is most often compared to. On the balistics charts the other wsm rounds dont have any major advantage over their magnum counterparts. Besides that taking North America's 3rd most popular cartridge and making it a magnum was a marketing no brainer, not sure how weatherby screwed it up.
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11-17-2010, 02:57 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
I could never understand the allure of the 270 WSM over the 7MM version. Maybe SC and the longer range shooters could enlighten me on this one as LR shooting seems to be a reason given to going to the WSM's.
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it was a reason for me, i shot a doe at 521 yrds with the .270 i had before, and in practical terms with that bullet at the time figured that was about the usueable limit for it on game...even though i hit well to 700 i think it lost too much velocity to get bullets to open up well etc.
equally important to me was the fact i didn't want to reload
yet i wanted ballistics to take me as close to the distance as the single turn of a leupold target knob (15 moa) would take me in terms of useable velocity on game to have the bullet stay in parameters specified by manufacturer, so i could use a kenton speed dial knob in yards to match everything so it was fast/simple for hunting....the .270 wsm was the least horsepower i could drive(in factory ammo cartridges) to stay around 1800 fps min impact velocity to how far the leupold scope would give me in one rotation (around 800 yrds)....so for me it was maximum efficiency, plus it came in short action for a lightweight gun which was also important for me but that was a bonus really
i could hit well with the regular .270 to further than it could keep recommended (on game) velocities up on my bullet of choice (accubonds) so i upgraded for more horsepower, hope that makes sense, i have a well balanced rig now that can stay around 1800 fps (750 yrds elevation depending) about as far as i can speed dial with a standard 1/4 moa per click leupold
so the allure is for those who want to do longer range without the reloading.....capiche?
if i reloaded i could keep similar velocities to similar ranges with 105 bergers in a .243 (a build i plan on in future)....but i don't reload yet, i have too much on the go to take it on, so until i reload (retrirement maybe?) then to do what i want with factory ammo i have to step up to the .270 wsm
otherwise i'm with you....regular hunting/shooting i vote .270 over the wsm every time!
thats the beauty of reloading to me, access to the really high bc bullets allowing you to go much further on less powder, nicer on the shoulder, more efficient etc. build lighter guns without muzzlebrakes that can go as far and recoil tolerable as heavier harder kicking magnums
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