Do commercial drone operators need permits to operate in town?

[Spidey]

Last weekend, this truck pulls into our cul-de-sac. Has a company name on it - guys gets out with a high vis vest and sets up a tripod with screen. Then pulls out a large drone and proceeds to buzz around our houses.

Ironically, my wife is on our deck in a bikini after getting out of the hot tub, so I suggest she come in unless she wants to be accidentally captured on video. I was going to go and talk to the guy, but my wife leaned over the deck and asks how long he plans to be in the neighborhood. By the time I get around to going outside, he had already packed up and left.

I have no issues with commercial drone operations but shouldn't someone be notified if their house is going to be potentially filmed? (the drone seemed to fly over all the houses in our cul-de-sac.) I plan to follow up with the Town but wanted to see if anyone knows what the rules are.

[Spidey]

So I followed up with the Town and was put in touch with bylaw. They said they would follow up with the company but there's really nothing they can do if the company is fully registered and submitted all the permissions to operate in an area. The bylaw officer said this has come up before and between them and the RCMP, and they've learned that the law hasn't caught up on this so there are a lot of "grey areas" and he told me that if you are outside at all, even on your property, there's not much you can do about potentially being filmed.

I was surprised that, as a commercial drone operator, you wouldn't at least need a permit from the town in order to conduct that type of business. I'm sure this outfit was above-board (at least it looked like it), but I think there's definitely a gap between this type of business and the law. If I need a permit to add an additional electrical socket in my house, you would think you'd need a permit to fly an aircraft with spinning propellers directly over my head...

[EZM]

I've seen drones fly over residential areas (like your cul-de-sac) here in Edmonton. I am pretty sure it was for a real estate listing in the area. It looked to me like they were filming the approach to the house, made a few circles, and filmed the view from the yard to the river valley and city skyline (this house backs onto the river here in Wolf Willow). Guy was out there for maybe 20 minutes.

Looked like a pretty cool business idea.

[Spidey]

Yep, bylaw followed up with the operator and it was for real estate. Two pieces of the operator's account to bylaw were incorrect. 1. He said he tried to go door to door to let people know what he would be doing - which he most certainly did not. I watched him pull up, quickly set up and start filming. and 2. He said he only flew over the house requested by the real estate company - which he most certainly did not - I watched the drone pass over 4 houses distinctly. I don't know how you could only fly over one house and get the footage you would need.

You could tell the guy wanted get in and get out quickly. His mannerisms were sheepish, but I'm sure he's probably been yelled at doing what he does. To me, this is an indication that there needs to be improvements in the delivery and communication of commercial drone operations flying over residential areas.

[hillbillyreefer]

More permits and rules will make you happy how?

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

More permits and rules will make you happy how?

To ensure better communication / providing sufficient notice of why there's going to be a flying camera above my house

[hillbillyreefer]

Why do you need notification for someone to use public airspace? You don't notify anyone when you drive down the public street.

Why do you feel empowered to make this guy jump through more hoops?

You've implied he wasn't spying on you, but you need power over him because "drone" is the current evil buzzword.

Using the lefties warrantless search of gunowners logic "What do you have to hide?"

[Donkey Oatey]

So to answer your question, Yes a commercial user needs to have a Special Flight Operations Certificate(SFOC) from Transport Canada to fly inside of town. Depending on what is in the SFOC and which one they got (if they have one) one of the conditions in there would be that you need written permission of the local authority before commencing operations.

There are also limits on to how close you can get to people and buildings that are not part of the subject of the UAV flight.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviati...fly-drone.html

The commercial restrictions are way stricter than the recreational user. RCMP should look in to it. As well you can always call Transport Canada and file a complaint. https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviati...-incident.html

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

Why do you need notification for someone to use public airspace? You don't notify anyone when you drive down the public street.

Why do you feel empowered to make this guy jump through more hoops?

You've implied he wasn't spying on you, but you need power over him because "drone" is the current evil buzzword.

Using the lefties warrantless search of gunowners logic "What do you have to hide?"

Seems as though this has touched a nerve for you. I just realized what your avatar is - which may explain your stance. I see this issue more in line with a hunter not getting permission to cross someone's land or that AO thread about someone setting up a trail cam pointing into someone's land. I honestly have no beef with drones or the commercial drone business, but I don't think you can argue that having a camera hovering 50 ft over your house with no prior warning or communication doesn't feel a tad invasive? Am I being that unrealistic?

I trust the operator doesn't misuse the vantage point provided by having a flying camera, but if I stood on the street or behind people's back yards in public areas with binoculars peering just above or beside someone's house, I think I'd get a reaction...

I don't think it's about the "evil drone" movement, but hearing about the dozens of calls bylaw and RCMP get regarding drones on a regular basis - I think it warrants some better processes or communication.

On a semi-related note - how high off the ground does public air space start? This is all new to me so am more curious than anything (and no, I have nothing to hide )

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

So to answer your question, Yes a commercial user needs to have a Special Flight Operations Certificate(SFOC) from Transport Canada to fly inside of town. Depending on what is in the SFOC and which one they got (if they have one) one of the conditions in there would be that you need written permission of the local authority before commencing operations.

There are also limits on to how close you can get to people and buildings that are not part of the subject of the UAV flight.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviati...fly-drone.html

The commercial restrictions are way stricter than the recreational user. RCMP should look in to it. As well you can always call Transport Canada and file a complaint. https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviati...-incident.html

Thanks for this info. It's helpful. I'm not feeling the need to escalate things at this point, but I am not impressed with how less-than-honest the operator was with bylaw by saying he tried to knock on doors in the neighborhood before starting - which he clearly did not. Kind of taints things for me...

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by Spidey

Thanks for this info. It's helpful. I'm not feeling the need to escalate things at this point, but I am not impressed with how less-than-honest the operator was with bylaw by saying he tried to knock on doors in the neighborhood before starting - which he clearly did not. Kind of taints things for me...

Nothing in a SFOC says you have to knock on doors and let people know you are flying. But should have at least 2 people, one flying and one watching for people and obstructions.

I see the realtors as being quite loose with the rules for a while now and I would assume will be brought back in line sooner rather than later. Big thing is they publicly post their videos so lots of evidence that they flew commercially and where they flew. Be a pretty easy investigation to see if they have the proper SFOC and are they following it.

[Jayhad]

Originally Posted by Spidey

To ensure better communication / providing sufficient notice of why there's going to be a flying camera above my house

So what if he just drived by with his cell camera out?

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by Jayhad

So what if he just drived by with his cell camera out?

I wouldn't have a problem with that. That would be no different than simply walking on the street or sidewalk and looking at or into houses. I think most property owners likely take that into consideration. However, replace your example of a cell camera with something like driving by with binoculars out looking at houses and see how quickly you'd get reported...

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Spidey

So I followed up with the Town and was put in touch with bylaw. They said they would follow up with the company but there's really nothing they can do if the company is fully registered and submitted all the permissions to operate in an area. The bylaw officer said this has come up before and between them and the RCMP, and they've learned that the law hasn't caught up on this so there are a lot of "grey areas" and he told me that if you are outside at all, even on your property, there's not much you can do about potentially being filmed.

I was surprised that, as a commercial drone operator, you wouldn't at least need a permit from the town in order to conduct that type of business. I'm sure this outfit was above-board (at least it looked like it), but I think there's definitely a gap between this type of business and the law. If I need a permit to add an additional electrical socket in my house, you would think you'd need a permit to fly an aircraft with spinning propellers directly over my head...

You got your answers from the Leo's more to follow...next time go directly to the fella and engage in a civil conversation maybe more answers will come forth.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

You got your answers from the Leo's more to follow...next time go directly to the fella and engage in a civil conversation maybe more answers will come forth.

Yep, that was my original intent as written in my first post.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Spidey

Yep, bylaw followed up with the operator and it was for real estate. Two pieces of the operator's account to bylaw were incorrect. 1. He said he tried to go door to door to let people know what he would be doing - which he most certainly did not. I watched him pull up, quickly set up and start filming. and 2. He said he only flew over the house requested by the real estate company - which he most certainly did not - I watched the drone pass over 4 houses distinctly. I don't know how you could only fly over one house and get the footage you would need.

You could tell the guy wanted get in and get out quickly. His mannerisms were sheepish, but I'm sure he's probably been yelled at doing what he does. To me, this is an indication that there needs to be improvements in the delivery and communication of commercial drone operations flying over residential areas.

If he is providing false information to bylaw which in some cases are peace officers, then he should be held accountable.

[HalfBreed]

Before we ban UFAV camera work, should we not 'focus'(see what I did there?) on vehicle cameras, bank machine cameras, cameras all over the place?

I mean seriously, how much camera activity is necessary?

Ban phone cameras and anything that can image effectively unless the operator is licensed.

Get in line for soup.

[Ken07AOVette]

What he is doing is wrong. To strictly follow SFOC guidlines he would not be flying. Without public disclosure or at least a pamphlet explaining unsuccessful door knocking he is heavily in the wrong. Plus, he still can not fly over vehicles, vessels, the public, residences without permission.
People like him playing the part are the reason we are in this boat.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If he is providing false information to bylaw which in some cases are peace officers, then he should be held accountable.

Agreed. But it would be difficult to prove - his word against mine on the door knocking and whether he flew over one house or four without seeing all the raw footage. That said, I think I'll chat with some of the neighbors who were also home that day. There's also a new real estate sign up at the end of our cul-de-sac as of today, so will wait to see what kind of pics/footage hit the realty website.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

What he is doing is wrong. To strictly follow SFOC guidlines he would not be flying. Without public disclosure or at least a pamphlet explaining unsuccessful door knocking he is heavily in the wrong. Plus, he still can not fly over vehicles, vessels, the public, residences without permission.
People like him playing the part are the reason we are in this boat.

That's really good to know, thanks Ken. It's also reaffirming that there is some public accountability built into this industry. I don't care if you can get approval from Transport Canada to do the work - I just want to know when you're going to be flying over my house and in my neighborhood. A simple pamphlet on my door indicating "licensed drone photography" in my neighborhood on xxx date and a phone number to call with any questions would have alleviated all concerns.

It really seemed like the operator was trying to "get in and get out quickly" and shortcut something - it was obvious in his mannerisms and in his response and how fast he took off after my wife confronted him. Something just wasn't adding up. It's funny - I actually know the realtor who's sign is up at the new house for sale. I think I'll be having a conversation with her as to what transpired during the accrual of footage. And there's no way I would have guessed that was the house being filmed based on the flight path of that drone - but I recognize this is speculation on my part until I cross reference the real estate listing and whether or not they hired a drone photographer.

[HalfBreed]

Originally Posted by Spidey

That's really good to know, thanks Ken. It's also reaffirming that there is some public accountability built into this industry. I don't care if you can get approval from Transport Canada to do the work - I just want to know when you're going to be flying over my house and in my neighborhood.

It really seemed like the operator was trying to "get in and get out quickly" and shortcut something - it was obvious in his mannerisms and in his response and how fast he took off after my wife confronted him. Something just wasn't adding up. It's funny - I actually know the realtor who's sign is up at the new house for sale. I think I'll be having a conversation with her as to what transpired during the accrual of footage. And there's no way I would have guessed that was the house being filmed based on the flight path of that drone - but I recognize this is speculation on my part until I cross reference the real estate listing and whether or not they hired a drone photographer.

Please sleep better.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by HalfBreed

Please sleep better.

Which one are you?

https://media.giphy.com/media/14leiEAysOpVMA/giphy.gif

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by Spidey

Agreed. But it would be difficult to prove - his word against mine on the door knocking and whether he flew over one house or four without seeing all the raw footage. That said, I think I'll chat with some of the neighbors who were also home that day. There's also a new real estate sign up at the end of our cul-de-sac as of today, so will wait to see what kind of pics/footage hit the realty website.

So nothing bad happened during this drone flight? If not then why is it you feel the need to go to such lengths to "investigate" a flight? You've already cried to the "authorities", now you feel the need to run your sleuth operation, good lord. What is it you hope to gain by wasting so much of your energy on a non event?

Some people have entirely too much time on their hands.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

So nothing bad happened during this drone flight? If not then why is it you feel the need to go to such lengths to "investigate" a flight? You've already cried to the "authorities", now you feel the need to run your sleuth operation, good lord. What is it you hope to gain by wasting so much of your energy on a non event?

Some people have entirely too much time on their hands.

A "non-event" does not equate to "non-culpable". The only time I've invested is one 2 minute call to learn more. To to assuage your furor, my initial call was simply to the town office main line to ask some basic questions. They were the ones who transferred me to bylaw. I was told that all drone inquiries (and they get a lot) get transferred directly to bylaw. A tad telling, isn't it?

Read other member's posts - I'm not the only one who is questioning what happened. I think your perspective may be colored...just not sure why....

[Suzukisam]

Don't worry those things have wide angle cameras they would not be able to recognize your wife even if she stood beside the guy yet alone her bra size

[HalfBreed]

Originally Posted by Spidey

Which one are you?

https://media.giphy.com/media/14leiEAysOpVMA/giphy.gif

I didn't open your link.

I believe one needs to do their level best to stay abreast of the surge that is technology.

I miss most of it, but I try.