Regulation Changes for 2018

[calvin]

and it begins-> pew pew pew

[Mulehahn]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

There was never a vote held by the executive to show support or not to a ban. Again, people want to point a finger at the ABA.... Look towards more recent statements by others to find more current "support" for the ban.

But I'm on vacation and it's sunny and 26 above! I am out

LC

I believe you that there was never a vote taken, nor much support for the ban among them. You are also correct that they were not the instigators but were simply requested to bring it to the table. Why they would put themselves in that position, if as you say there was considerable opposition to the ban among its executive is beyond me though. Could they not just have refused to be the flag bearer and told those that requested the ABA present the ban no? I am not involved with the ABA by any means so am not familiar with the inner workings. But I am/have been on the executive of a variety of similar organizations. None that I have been a part of would allow a motion to be presented on its behalf without a vote first.

Reality and public perception are seldom connected. And unfortunately, the public perception will be, right or wrong, that they lead the charge.

[Tarmac]

Originally Posted by JDK71

you watch they will go after bow hunting next sad but true always look at your video be for sending out to the world to judge just my thoughts

I could not agree more. We are our worst enemies.

[Yaha Tinda]

Why would the ABA and the AFGA sit down and discuss a ban, they should have refused to even meet and discuss it.

[HuntingAlberta]

Amazing that it's now illegal to use a rock or sling shot to hunt upland birds with according to how i read this. Silly rules from overreaching governments continue to render Canada incompetent.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Mulehahn

The ABA sold hunters out. That is how I read that article. There was a public outcry when a cougar was shot. There is public outcry when a carcass is found. There is public outcry when an elk is shot in the Foothills. Public outcry should not gave a say in policy. Organizations such as the ABA should and they just proved they are willing to sell us out.

As for the shot size, .24 is no.4 buckshot. The smallest buckshot there is. Was it common for people to go hunting big game with BBB goose loads? I have never heard of it!

If you notice in the article the ABA was not mentioned. ACA and Aheia were.

LC

[elkhunter11]

I was losing faith in the AFGA , before they stated that they were okay with the ban, now I have zero use for them. They seem to be more concerned with spending members money on a new clubhouse, than promoting hunting and fishing.

[Chuck_Wagon]

“The provincial government has instead formulated a list of approved weapons: rifles, shotguns and conventional archery gear.
The result is a list of permitted weapons, much like the approach used in other provinces.”

So what else has been changed, I want to see this list of approved gear.

[Full Curl Earl]

Originally Posted by calvin

and it begins-> pew pew pew

Quote of the thread, lol, thanks.
Pew Pew Pew,

[IronNoggin]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

... You guys will have to point fingers elsewhere...

This race based weapons ban gained footing thanks to the President of the ABA. He personally submitted the proposal to ban Spear/Atlatls back in '13, without a vote from the membership, years before the youtube incident.

This gave the foundation within the Gov. to have stakeholder acceptance for the ban once public social license came into question.

As of this last spring, Despite multitudes of tales to the contrary from the ABA that they were "Not" in favor of a ban, they wrote this to their membership:

"Brent has been attending the Alberta Game Policy Advisory Council meetings and is on the Allocation Policy Review Committee. The Allocation Policy Review committee met Jan 12/17 with another meeting set for Feb 9, 2017. Once the work of this committee is done, its recommendations will be taken to AGPAC general, internal FW people and then the draft "policy" will be open to the public and organizations for their feedback and comments. This policy review is looking at how the big game harvest/tags will be divided up among the residents, non-residents, bowhunters, landowners etc.
One disappointing thing we learned at the Jan 12/17 meeting is that the 72 proposed changes to the "Wildlife Regulations" policy/guiding document (is different than the Hunting Reg proposed changes) that was sent up the chain of command in December 2016 by the FW policy guys we deal with, had been taken "off the books." This policy is set to expire at the end of June, 2017. They were told no other details, have no idea how far the package got, if the minister even seen it, who's desk did it stop at, if and when it will be given another look. Other than the govt and a team of lawyers are drafting something that will "ban spears, javelins and similar tools for hunting big game" - leaving out dropping rocks from trees, running down game and killing with knife etc which all would have been addressed in the package. The spear thing is all in a response to the bear spearing video this past spring. "Government got 160000 emails on this spear issue" - one hundred and sixty thousand!!! More than any other issue ever. A great deal of the proposed changes were of an administrative nature - like putting the "n" back in "sowshoe hare." Stakeholders did not have any real concerns with the change package. The lack of movement in going forward with this package of changes does not bode well for any of the other things us stakeholders are working on with government. "

Take note, actions of your individual stakeholders can and will lead to further erosion of our hunting rights...

So please inform us great ignorant unwashed, just what "other things" are you currently "working on with government"???

Cheers,
Nog

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by chuck

The ABA needs to be reigned in.

Yup but it's a cult like organization....sad but true.

[Mulehahn]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

If you notice in the article the ABA was not mentioned. ACA and Aheia were.

LC

You are correct. When I read the article my mind put in ABA instead if ACA. I was wrong and apologize. The ABA were the ones, as was stated earlier, to put forth the resolution but it was supported the ACA and the AHEIA.

I want to make sure I have all the facts straight now. The resolution to ban spears and atlatls was proposed by the ABA, Alberta's primary pointy stick group. It was then pushed through by two groups; one of which is responsible for hunter education in Alberta and the other who is responsible for the disbursement of funds generated from tags and licenses? Wow! I hope I am wrong! I really do. Please someone tell me I a crazy, or did three of the groups in the province with the largest impact on future hunting opportunities just argue for less opportunity?

[Smokinyotes]

I’m not in agreement with the changes put forth. Myself I wouldn’t hunt with a spear but if anyone else wanted to, have at er. Bottom line is if Josh Bowmar hadn’t acted like a complete and total idiot after he speared his bear and then posted it on that stupid Facebook we wouldn’t be talking about this now.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Mulehahn

You are correct. When I read the article my mind put in ABA instead if ACA. I was wrong and apologize. The ABA were the ones, as was stated earlier, to put forth the resolution but it was supported the ACA and the AHEIA.

I want to make sure I have all the facts straight now. The resolution to ban spears and atlatls was proposed by the ABA, Alberta's primary pointy stick group. It was then pushed through by two groups; one of which is responsible for hunter education in Alberta and the other who is responsible for the disbursement of funds generated from tags and licenses? Wow! I hope I am wrong! I really do. Please someone tell me I a crazy, or did three of the groups in the province with the largest impact on future hunting opportunities just argue for less opportunity?

Resolutions are put forward each year that are only valid for the current years consideration, after which they are pushed aside. They don't stand forever as a resolution. The spear thing when it first came up, as I understand, was a request by the (at the time AGMAG) group to have one of the member organizations create a resolution representing the GROUP.... the resolution was drafted, presented...and NEVER came to be, resolution not passed and it was swept away to the obscurity of the process. Do you know how many resolutions are proposed by stakeholders that never come to be?

Since that time roughly 3-4+ years ago other events occurred which likely lead to where we are now. See social media disasters where nonresident hunter acted like an idiot for all to see....showing WAAAY too much and presenting things in a negative light...IMHO of course.

Now if a group proposed a minimum standard of how spears and atlatl's should be constructed and used with some science and testing presented, things may be different. To the best of my knowledge no group pursued this nor did the leg work to achieve this.

Do you all know that prior to now...dropping a rock from a tree stand onto a deers head was actually a legal practice? Provided it occurred during a General hunting season and the hunter had a license for the game he was chasing. The push now is to define ONLY what is allowed where everything else will not be allowed. Not saying I agree just trying to explain what I know about the situation. I haven't seen the new regs as written....but the wording of how this is done concerns me.

Currently archery equipment and firearm equipment has minimum standards to be met to be legal (minimum draw weights, minimum calibre for examples).... everything outside of that which did not fit or was not mentioned was not regulated.

This should be a stark warning to all who share things via social media to pay attention to how they are presenting the situation and how it will be perceived. We can no longer just toss out whatever the hell we want and expect others to sit idle.

LC

[58thecat]

This should be a stark warning to all who share things via social media to pay attention to how they are presenting the situation and how it will be perceived.

But that does not mandate a change because a meathead did something stupid and now all have to pay the price who do things ethically...bad decisions to silence a crowd is not building strength for the future, these groups responsible for these types of decisions should see this but unfortunately they have an agenda....this time it was the spear...next time it might be???


I'm working on a catapult for the upcoming season

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

This should be a stark warning to all who share things via social media to pay attention to how they are presenting the situation and how it will be perceived.

But that does not mandate a change because a meathead did something stupid and now all have to pay the price who do things ethically...bad decisions to silence a crowd is not building strength for the future, these groups responsible for these types of decisions should see this but unfortunately they have an agenda....this time it was the spear...next time it might be???


I'm working on a catapult for the upcoming season

Where have you been? Have you not seen what issues "social licenses" cause. The better we all behave the better off we all are....proven time and again. You know which Government is in power right? The SJW pleasing and pandering one.

I don't like it, but that's how it is.

LC

[1899b]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

I am just going to identify as an indigenous hunter.

The new regulations won’t interfere with the rights of Indigenous hunters to practise traditional hunting methods.

Yup do what ya gotta do. Don’t blame you..

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

Also,

The regulations will also set new standards for ammunition by requiring shotgun pellets to be larger than .24 inches in diameter. This means hunters must use .24-calibre buckshot or larger when hunting big game to ensure a quick and effective kill.

is that bad?? i tried 7 1/2 on a buck last year but i never found it...

[1899b]

..........

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Where have you been? Have you not seen what issues "social licenses" cause. The better we all behave the better off we all are....proven time and again. You know which Government is in power right? The SJW pleasing and pandering one.

I don't like it, but that's how it is.

LC

Just can't believe that people actually still knee jerk things is all but it ain't going away with all the bleeding hearts etc so I will stick to hunting,fishing, enjoying the outdoors legally but my way...until they force us to all become criminals by making idiotic decisions...mankind...another wrong step for....mankind.

[dmcbride]

How is that social license working out for pipelines? Fact, you will never make a anti hunter happy until there is no hunting.

[smoke73]

So the new regs won't be out until after spring bear season has passed. One last chance I guess.

[deercamp]

obviously losing any hunting privilege sets a president for losing other options but honestly who does this actually affect? theres better ways , cleaner more effective ways of going about hunting. hence why minimum caliber size exists, minimum draw weights exist... Spear hunting is unregulated, no testing or minimum speed/accuracy required not surprising that it has been the victim of criticism/public dismay. My 2 cents anyways

[Tactical Lever]

So the benchmark is "someone acted like an idiot" so we lose a hunting opportunity? What. The. Crap?? May the Lord help us if they ever watch a hunting show... Shoot an elk at over 700 yards, winging it in the haunches before a lucky kill shot....

Might as well regulate some distance guidelines or maybe outlaw high velocity cartridges for hunting! Naw, it'll just be done for and illegal as soon as some uppity idjit trough feeder decides that all game animals are just too darn majestic. Isn't that what just ended B.C.'s grizzly hunting?

We have some real perma-fried lunatics making laws now!

[bucksman]

Originally Posted by deercamp

obviously losing any hunting privilege sets a president for losing other options but honestly who does this actually affect? theres better ways , cleaner more effective ways of going about hunting. hence why minimum caliber size exists, minimum draw weights exist... Spear hunting is unregulated, no testing or minimum speed/accuracy required not surprising that it has been the victim of criticism/public dismay. My 2 cents anyways

^^^^^^ THIS

its 2018. The fact that we were still allowed to spear a bear(or 2) without taking the meat was bound to come to an end so not sure why the surprise

[Chuck_Wagon]

can still spear hunt wolves

[ghostguy6]

Originally Posted by HuntingAlberta

Amazing that it's now illegal to use a rock or sling shot to hunt upland birds with according to how i read this. Silly rules from overreaching governments continue to render Canada incompetent.

Were do you see that? All I see is you can no longer hunt big game with a spear. Anything else is still legal with a spear.

[kritz]

[QUOTE=58thecat;3727168]This should be a stark warning to all who share things via social media to pay attention to how they are presenting the situation and how it will be perceived.

That being said, the people who are outraged at the new regs, How many people participate in spear hunting and buckshot in big game situations?
This was done probably to satisfy the public outcry pressure but really will effect a very small % (1 or 2 hunters/1 American?) of hunters in Alberta.
Yes we need to be scared of what can come in the future, but we also need to be aware of the statement above from the Cat.
Spear fishing went away, I did participate in that sport, was it for the better, maybe, there was no chance or remorse or catch and release, size limitations.

We need to get better at promoting and defending the hunting community.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by Chuck_Wagon

can still spear hunt wolves

Good luck with that.

[smoke73]

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

So the benchmark is "someone acted like an idiot" so we lose a hunting opportunity? What. The. Crap?? May the Lord help us if they ever watch a hunting show... Shoot an elk at over 700 yards, winging it in the haunches before a lucky kill shot....

Might as well regulate some distance guidelines or maybe outlaw high velocity cartridges for hunting! Naw, it'll just be done for and illegal as soon as some uppity idjit trough feeder decides that all game animals are just too darn majestic. Isn't that what just ended B.C.'s grizzly hunting?

We have some real perma-fried lunatics making laws now!

Couldn't agree more. If traditional bow hunters aren't nervous at this point they should be. Why use a longbow when super efficient compounds exist. A very slippery slope.