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  #121  
Old 11-03-2011, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by McLeod View Post
While I respect Duane I do not agree with him when it comes to the use of Barbed treble hooks on Spoons or spinners. Barbed flies which of course are a single I would tend to agree a little more that they don't have much of a difference. But treble barbed hooks are devasting. I have experimented with this the National Parks and have seen the evidence.
Duane is going by the science and the science says barbless hooks are a feel good law. Not what someone thinks or feels or their own anecdotal evidence. The number one cause of fish mortality is fishing, not barbed hooks. Should we stop fishing to stop C&R mortality?
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  #122  
Old 11-03-2011, 12:32 PM
DanaS DanaS is offline
 
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I wasn't gonna, but I will pipe in as well. I will use single barbless hooks now and for forever. So will my kids (at least I hope so). Even when I fish out of country, where barbs are legal, I am pinching them down or filing them off. It is so much easier to release the fish. I missed a barb earlier this year and I felt real bad pulling that hook out of that poor fish. I don't think that one made it and it was the first for me in a long time that did not swim away with ease. I do object to ticketing when the fisherman has made every effort to remove the barb. I was threatened once for this. Stinking barb broke off and left a tiny edge that the fisheries guy got quite rude about. I grind all my hooks now with a dremel before leaving the house. It is more sporting and much easier on the fish. Of course, only my humble opinion.
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  #123  
Old 11-03-2011, 01:04 PM
chris wood chris wood is offline
 
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I've been reading this and I cannot believe what some fishermen or fishing people are saying!!! If I put a barbed hook through my lip and then pull it out what do you think my chances of dying are?? ha ha ha. I read in this forum all the time and I think some people weigh in or post on this forum just because they got nothin else to do..
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  #124  
Old 11-03-2011, 03:10 PM
pickrel pat pickrel pat is offline
 
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i wish i could walk in to the store and start grabbing barbless hooks off the shelf! sucks pinchin barbs.......
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  #125  
Old 11-03-2011, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by chris wood View Post
I've been reading this and I cannot believe what some fishermen or fishing people are saying!!! If I put a barbed hook through my lip and then pull it out what do you think my chances of dying are??
That is one of the more clueless and ridiculous things posted on this board in the past week...

It is all about the damage done to a fish when removing a barbed vs. barbless hook (this includes longer handling time, time out of water, excess stress, etc), and later damage (infection, feeding issues, etc). There may be some argument over the actual mortality percentages (there are so many variables in this, that it is a difficult experiment to get clear, conclusive results from), but it cannot be denied that barbed hooks are more difficult and time-consuming to remove.

To each their own opinion, but it is the law here, and the trend towards single, barbless hooks is spreading quickly across North America, so get used to pinching your barbs.
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  #126  
Old 11-03-2011, 04:02 PM
ak-71 ak-71 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Toirtis View Post
To each their own opinion, but it is the law here, and the trend towards single, barbless hooks is spreading quickly across North America, so get used to pinching your barbs.
One of my favorite quotes from one old Russian guy I knew is:

"With the most enthusiasm people do useless and often harmful things..."

It seems like in politics it's all they do and barbless thing seems to be a political issue to me now.

Last edited by ak-71; 11-03-2011 at 04:09 PM.
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  #127  
Old 11-03-2011, 05:47 PM
GaryF GaryF is offline
 
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Originally Posted by chris wood View Post
I've been reading this and I cannot believe what some fishermen or fishing people are saying!!! If I put a barbed hook through my lip and then pull it out what do you think my chances of dying are??
Probably none, but lets toss your head under water and hold it there until we get it out and see how you do. Better yet, lets toss a #2 treble with barbs into your throat, toss you under the water, and rip it out and see how you fair with that one.
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  #128  
Old 11-03-2011, 06:39 PM
ak-71 ak-71 is offline
 
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Gary, you are not a fish
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  #129  
Old 11-03-2011, 09:09 PM
GaryF GaryF is offline
 
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I think you missed the point, go back and read it again and think about what I typed. If it still doesn't make sense, I'll explain it for you.
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  #130  
Old 11-03-2011, 09:10 PM
McLeod McLeod is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 209x50 View Post
Duane is going by the science and the science says barbless hooks are a feel good law. Not what someone thinks or feels or their own anecdotal evidence. The number one cause of fish mortality is fishing, not barbed hooks. Should we stop fishing to stop C&R mortality?

Going by Science ? What is Science ? I have a degree in Zoology ..In a mountain park lake I caught several Dozen cutties on barbed hooks and several dozen on Barbless. Barbless hooked fish are harder to keep on the hook and land.
Of all fish caught barbed hooked fish are harder to release and there is more bleeding and thus more mortality. I am not going to write a thesis on this but it is science. I will challenge any of Duane studies in regards to treble hooks.
The rate would be much narrower I suspect when fishing with flies on a single hook.

Yes the number one cause of fish mortality is fishing ..The point that is being made is that there is an increase in mortality rate with with the use of barbed hooks.
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  #131  
Old 11-03-2011, 10:58 PM
slough shark slough shark is offline
 
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I'm all for barbless in most situations, especially on treble hooks as it makes releasing them soooo much easier. The only issues that I have with barbless is when you are trying to pinch the barbs on a small fly (think size 16-20), a good portion of the time the hook breaks, I wish I could buy them barbless arghhh. Aside from that the only other time I wish I could use barbed hooks is when I'm ice fishing for whitefish, they are able to slip off the hook too easily some times lol.
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  #132  
Old 11-03-2011, 11:12 PM
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With a barbed hook you can have a lot more fun bringing in a fish, and I'm sure its a lot less stressful on the fish. With a barbless hook, you have to water ski the fish in, or you may loose the biggest fish ever. You can't bring a big fish up from over 18 feet and not hurt his chances of survival, but with a barbed hook you can take your time and bring the fish up slowly. I think making this a law is just another money grab for government. Most of us would fish barbless or with barbs, depending on what and where, but the government likes to think they are the only ones capable of making such decisions.
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  #133  
Old 11-03-2011, 11:40 PM
Crossfire Crossfire is offline
 
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Fishing barbless is absolutely fine with me. Great for releasing fish and as long as you know what you are doing you dont loose fish because of it being barbless
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  #134  
Old 11-03-2011, 11:44 PM
ak-71 ak-71 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by GaryF View Post
I think you missed the point, go back and read it again and think about what I typed. If it still doesn't make sense, I'll explain it for you.
I don't think it would be needed.
I think it was pointed out in some other recent thread - don't try to compare you abilities to stay underwater with fish ability to stay out of it to get to any conclusions. Analogy is a poor argument in this case. Some mammals can stay underwater for a very, very long time... So if you had different abilities to stay under water would it change how long fish can to stay without it? Nope... Just another pointless analogy.
Salamanders for example can regrow limbs and I suspect a mortality rate from lost legs is way lower than in humans in similar conditions, even if it makes us feel really sorry for them.
I think barbless/barbed would be a simple enough experiment which could be done in a large aquarium. Fish is fish in a lake, or in a fish tank. Everything else is just a talk about our feelings.
I am sorry to point out obvious things

Last edited by ak-71; 11-03-2011 at 11:57 PM.
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  #135  
Old 11-04-2011, 12:06 AM
tommyguitar tommyguitar is offline
 
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Originally Posted by McLeod View Post
Going by Science ? What is Science ? I have a degree in Zoology ..In a mountain park lake I caught several Dozen cutties on barbed hooks and several dozen on Barbless. Barbless hooked fish are harder to keep on the hook and land.
Of all fish caught barbed hooked fish are harder to release and there is more bleeding and thus more mortality. I am not going to write a thesis on this but it is science. I will challenge any of Duane studies in regards to treble hooks.
The rate would be much narrower I suspect when fishing with flies on a single hook.

Yes the number one cause of fish mortality is fishing ..The point that is being made is that there is an increase in mortality rate with with the use of barbed hooks.
Great post. Yes, barbless is a key factor for the sustainability of our great fisheries.
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  #136  
Old 11-04-2011, 05:29 AM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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Originally Posted by tommyguitar View Post
Great post. Yes, barbless is a key factor for the sustainability of our great fisheries.


Definately not, at least not any studies I have read.

The differences between barbed and barbless is very low.

Last edited by huntsfurfish; 11-04-2011 at 05:36 AM.
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  #137  
Old 11-04-2011, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLeod View Post
Going by Science ? What is Science ? I have a degree in Zoology ..In a mountain park lake I caught several Dozen cutties on barbed hooks and several dozen on Barbless. Barbless hooked fish are harder to keep on the hook and land.
Of all fish caught barbed hooked fish are harder to release and there is more bleeding and thus more mortality. I am not going to write a thesis on this but it is science. I will challenge any of Duane studies in regards to treble hooks.
The rate would be much narrower I suspect when fishing with flies on a single hook.

Yes the number one cause of fish mortality is fishing ..The point that is being made is that there is an increase in mortality rate with with the use of barbed hooks.
The science of studies that have shown that of all the variables that can lead to delayed mortality from being caught, whether the hook is barbed or not is the most insignificant. Far and away the largest killer of fish is being caught, followed by variables like water temp, length of fight, age of fish and a dozen others. All more important than the barb. If you feel good doing then continue on. But sometime you should read on HOW we got this law rammed down our throats by Ralph.
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  #138  
Old 11-04-2011, 09:19 AM
Jayhad Jayhad is offline
 
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Originally Posted by huntsfurfish View Post
[/I][/B]

Definately not, at least not any studies I have read.
Can you produce theses studies?
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  #139  
Old 11-04-2011, 09:42 AM
McLeod McLeod is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 209x50 View Post
The science of studies that have shown that of all the variables that can lead to delayed mortality from being caught, whether the hook is barbed or not is the most insignificant. Far and away the largest killer of fish is being caught, followed by variables like water temp, length of fight, age of fish and a dozen others. All more important than the barb. If you feel good doing then continue on. But sometime you should read on HOW we got this law rammed down our throats by Ralph.
TJ I know all about how this law got added. Yes there are many variables...
The point is and what you seem not to be getting a grasp on is that if you go fishing and are using treble hooks ... Would more fish die if you use barbed over barbless at that particular time and the answer is YES. Is barbed or Barbless insignificant.... I would say that depends on the context of the study
and how it's measured.
Maybe we should head up to banff next summer fish some bull trout and
you can use spoons with barbed hooks and without..I know after the first bull rolls over on it's belly you will be convinced.
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  #140  
Old 11-04-2011, 10:53 AM
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Darren N Darren N is offline
 
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Originally Posted by slough shark View Post
I'm all for barbless in most situations, especially on treble hooks as it makes releasing them soooo much easier. The only issues that I have with barbless is when you are trying to pinch the barbs on a small fly (think size 16-20), a good portion of the time the hook breaks, I wish I could buy them barbless arghhh. Aside from that the only other time I wish I could use barbed hooks is when I'm ice fishing for whitefish, they are able to slip off the hook too easily some times lol.
I 100 percent agree. Nothing is more frustrating then trying to do good by pinching a barb and then have the hook break. I prefer fishing without barbs whether I break the odd one or not, but I am always concerned how anal F&W would be if they checked my hooks. At the best they are pinched down but they still have a bump of squished metal sitting there. I would also think the majority of us do not file down? Anyone from F&W reply or experience this situation?
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  #141  
Old 11-04-2011, 11:53 AM
ak-71 ak-71 is offline
 
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I try to roll them as I pinch and it breaks the barb most of the times.
I was only checked once with a bigger walleye hooks pinched broken. I had 2 on the line he checked one and said I was good to go. Quite reasonable I guess.
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  #142  
Old 11-04-2011, 12:35 PM
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Do away with C/R and the barb/barbless debate is moot.

Get your catch for the day and go home and cook them up.
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  #143  
Old 11-04-2011, 12:46 PM
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I don't see how this law is a problem for anyone. Even if it were unnecessary.

So what if you loose the biggest fish you ever caught because of it. Big deal, you still can catch enough for a meal and you still can catch enough to have a good time. Unless you have mental stability issues.
Besides you could very possibly catch that big fish at a later date.
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  #144  
Old 11-04-2011, 12:59 PM
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I don't see how this law is a problem for anyone. Even if it were unnecessary.

.
So unnecessary laws are a good thing?
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  #145  
Old 11-04-2011, 01:02 PM
tommyguitar tommyguitar is offline
 
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Originally Posted by huntsfurfish View Post
[/I][/B]

Definately not, at least not any studies I have read.

The differences between barbed and barbless is very low.


How? I'm sure I'm not the only person here who has seen fish killed or injured with removal of a barbed hook. It's a no brainer. Got any links to these studies there?
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  #146  
Old 11-04-2011, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by McLeod View Post
TJ I know all about how this law got added. Yes there are many variables...
The point is and what you seem not to be getting a grasp on is that if you go fishing and are using treble hooks ... Would more fish die if you use barbed over barbless at that particular time and the answer is YES. Is barbed or Barbless insignificant.... I would say that depends on the context of the study
and how it's measured.
Maybe we should head up to banff next summer fish some bull trout and
you can use spoons with barbed hooks and without..I know after the first bull rolls over on it's belly you will be convinced.
TJ???
I have caught more than my share of fish and thousands were caught on trebles. The size of the hole in the fishes lip has no bearing on mortality.
The Internet is full of studies at least one was linked to in this thread. Barbless doesn't save fish.
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  #147  
Old 11-04-2011, 01:04 PM
trooper trooper is offline
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I never release the fish I catch anyway. I fish for food period! That's the reason people fished to begin with. I only fish stocked reservoirs where you can take out your dinner (5 a day). So Why would I want to use barbless?? To me, it's a stupid law. I fish barbless because it's the law does not matter if I agree with it or not. I still say it's stupid. So why don't the powers that be change the law so that fishing with either style hook is optional on bodies of water that are stocked?
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  #148  
Old 11-04-2011, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Redfrog View Post
Do away with C/R and the barb/barbless debate is moot.

Get your catch for the day and go home and cook them up.
That is the law in some countries. C&R fishing is causing pain to the fish for the pleasure of the angler is the thought process behind these catch and kill laws.
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  #149  
Old 11-04-2011, 01:07 PM
tommyguitar tommyguitar is offline
 
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Originally Posted by trooper View Post
I never release the fish I catch anyway. I fish for food period! That's the reason people fished to begin with. I only fish stocked reservoirs where you can take out your dinner (5 a day). So Why would I want to use barbless?? To me, it's a stupid law. I fish barbless because it's the law does not matter if I agree with it or not. I still say it's stupid. So why don't the powers that be change the law so that fishing with either style hook is optional on bodies of water that are stocked?
What if you catch a little gaffer? You want to release him but you can't? Or say people were using barbed hooks at PCR. No way that place would sustain as well as it has.
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  #150  
Old 11-04-2011, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by tommyguitar View Post
What if you catch a little gaffer? You want to release him but you can't? Or say people were using barbed hooks at PCR. No way that place would sustain as well as it has.
Why not? Barbed hooks do not increase mortality, especially in walleye.
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