Alberta Minimum Wage

[OpenRange]

I just wanna know what you guys think of this idea.

I hate the idea of a $15 minimum wage, unfortunately it appears we are destined to hit that whether we want it or not as we won't get a chance to boot them out before it is instituted.

Here's the thought I had....Why doesn't the NDP or any other party try to introduce a student wage?

A student wage could be set at something like $10 per hour for all employees enrolled in a learning institution. It would allow those that need a $15 living wage to receive it where they can get it and allow businesses to choose which type of employees they want according to their business.

I imagine the PC's and Wildrose wouldn't want to bring up that idea because they would rather see the $15 wage coming in and see people get laid off which would no doubt drive those people to vote for them so they can change things create jobs and THEN do something like I'm suggesting.

Thoughts?

[Dom4]

I mean i am no expert in this area but i think that i think like a lot of people and think $15 minimum wage just really does not make sense right now. but then again what do we all know...

[coastalhunter]

If some unskilled job gets a 3-4$ raise does that mean those of us in skilled trades/positions get one too?

Doesn't matter though, wages will never match inflation. Keeps us at work every day.... Canada - one big tax cash cow.

[raab]

Minimum wage should be 8 dollars. 10 years ago it was only 6 bucks an hour, at 15 dollars an hour they have raised it close to 300%. Anyone else in here get a 300% wage increase over the last 10 years? It's crap, you want to make a living wage go to school or work in undesirable work conditions like everyone else does.

[Rastus]

When the day comes that you have labourer's making as much money as a skilled trade then you take away the instinct to better ones self. And you are hearing this from a labourer.

[hawk-i]

I doubt many skilled trades are only making 15.00 per hour.

[super7mag]

I had a young guy this weekwant to come work for me when he done his third year at LLC for HD mechanic. Needs his blue book signed. Took his second year last semester in the spring and has been doing farm work including some mechanical stuff for one of my customers. He is young and eager and likley could be taught easily.
He needs more hrs of hands on , right now he needs pretty much constant supervision on any sort of difficult job . In conversation he told me expects 28$/ hr when he is out of school, if oil was booming and economy rolling I'm sure he could do that or better.
My problem is in Ag repairs how can I bill out someone learning on the go at full rate, meanwhile taking time off my task to ensure I'm not sending out a piece of equipment not fixed properly.
I told him I'm not hiring right now unless something changes.
I have an 18 yr old that just graduated that shows promise , he is a farm kid that is familiar with the equipment I fix . Now he's a guy I can start at 18$/hr , needs less babysitting , is a fast learner that I think I can actually teach the way I do things to, and would be willing to apprentice . Also the 10$ difference per hr I can work with in invoicing and dealing with customers.
I think the 15$ minimum wage has people not yet qualified for the bigger pay scale feeling entitled to more $. If the first guy came in and said he would start at 20$, then blew my doors off I would have zero issue matching the pay to the skill set.

[Reaver]

Originally Posted by hawk-i

I doubt many skilled trades are only making 15.00 per hour.

Definitely not, at least not after first year.

All the guys I know in the trades, including myself have taken a massive pay cut. Why should anyone be getting a raise right now...?

[Scott N]

When the cost is passed along to the consumer, a $15 / hour minimum wage still isn't going to be a "living wage", because everything is going to cost more.

[amosfella]

Here's something writen by a lady named Sheri Brock.

ALBERTA NDP’S MINIMUM WAGE BOONDOGGLE Alberta taxes (deductions) prior to minimum wage hike $0 Alberta taxes by 2018 $4,886.40

Federal taxes prior to minimum wage hike $4,615.20 Federal taxes by 2018 $13,126.80 Who has the most to gain here? Not the worker.

The following numbers are based on 40 hour work week, 2 week pay period, with 24 pay periods, as of Jan. 1, 2016. Deductions provided online by Canada Revenue Agency.

@$10.20/hr. (current min. wage)
Alberta Taxes $0
Federal Taxes $192.30
Total Taxes Deducted $192.30 x 24 (bi-monthly) = $4615.20
Take home pay $14,968.80
Alberta taxes $0
Federal taxes $4615.20

@ $11.20/hr. by 2017
Alberta Taxes $90.20
Federal Taxes $248.10
Total Taxes deducted $338.30 x 24 = $8119.20
Take home pay $13,384.80
Alberta taxes $2,164.80 year in Provincial taxes alone.
Federal taxes $5,954.40

@15.00/hr. by 2018
Alberta Taxes $203.60
Federal Taxes $546,95
Total Taxes deducted $750.55 x 24 = $18,013.20
Take home pay $10,786.80
Alberta taxes $4886.40
Federal taxes $13,126.80

Take home pay prior to Oct. 1, 2016 $14,968.80
Take home pay by 2018 $10,786.80
Difference -$4,182.00

Alberta taxes prior to minimum wage hike $0 Alberta taxes by 2018 $4,886.40

Federal taxes prior to minimum wage hike $4,615.20 Federal taxes by 2018 $13,126.80

Edited for clarification:
These calculations do not include CPP or EI deductions or the personal exemption. It was the intent to show just how much the government deducts from our pay checks for taxes only and act as a baseline. The take home pay is what you have in your pocket to live on until you do your taxes. There are multitudes of tax credits and other determinations (single or with children). Each taxpayer is unique and will pay different amounts of taxes accordingly. Some may get a bigger refund than others. My point was that the worker does not get any money back until the following year, if they do their taxes at all. The government takes with one hand, keeps your money, earns interest on your money ( you certainly don't) and then sends you a cheque that is more than likely less than what you gave them, prepared by a government worker that you also pay for. We cash the shiny cheque and tend to forget the info that tells us how much taxes we actually paid in our excitement. Ultimately, I still believe that the min. Wage worker will still end up with less in their pockets than before because the fact is, when your wage goes up, all your deductions go up as well. Additionally, Taxes, EI premiums, CCP all have a nasty habit of going up. I have added this addendum as many Facebook friends have brought some concerns to my attention and I want to take this opportunity to thank them for their help and hope this clarifies my intention and my math.

update: link to CRA for Alberta deductions

[The Cook]

Originally Posted by Rastus

When the day comes that you have labourer's making as much money as a skilled trade then you take away the instinct to better ones self. And you are hearing this from a labourer.

IMO an experienced labourer is worth any ticket on the shop floor.

[markg]

Is it coincidence that Mcdonalds is putting self order stations in there restaurants at the same time politicians across Canada and USA are bringing in minimum wage legislation? I think not.

This will hurt the lower classes with the result being increased unemployment and automation.

The question then becomes what will the overall economic impact be? Higher earners will be required to pay additional tax to pay for the social benefits of the unemployed class.

Leave the market alone and supply and demand will inevitably solve price problems.

[Okotokian]

I'm OK with raising the minimum for adults. I'm not sure kids need it, though if you had differential wages what would be stopping employers from firing adults and hiring kids.

AUSTRALIA actually has a different minimum for kids and adults. I think they went with the $15/hr adult wage. We should at least study that system.

[Jadham]

Originally Posted by amosfella

Here's something writen by a lady named Sheri Brock.

ALBERTA NDP’S MINIMUM WAGE BOONDOGGLE Alberta taxes (deductions) prior to minimum wage hike $0 Alberta taxes by 2018 $4,886.40

Federal taxes prior to minimum wage hike $4,615.20 Federal taxes by 2018 $13,126.80 Who has the most to gain here? Not the worker.

The following numbers are based on 40 hour work week, 2 week pay period, with 24 pay periods, as of Jan. 1, 2016. Deductions provided online by Canada Revenue Agency.

Wage worker will still end up with less in their pockets than before because the fact is, when your wage goes up, all your deductions go up as well. Additionally, Taxes, EI premiums, CCP all have a nasty habit of going up. I have added this addendum as many Facebook friends have brought some concerns to my attention and I want to take this opportunity to thank them for their help and hope this clarifies my intention and my math.

update: link to CRA for Alberta deductions

I don't know how your using the calculator but it is wrong.

Incremental increases in wages that change the employee's tax bracket only have increases on the amount in the new bracket, so net pay still goes up (taxes to government do as well).

As a quick example, run through the calculator at:

https://apps.cra-arc.gc.ca/ebci/rhpd/wlcm-bnvn.do

Putting in $24 000 annual income with only basic exemption claimed gives a net (take-home) of $12 235.44 for Alberta in 2016.

Now put in a 25% wage increase, or $30 000 annual income, and only basic exemption, and the net pay is now $14 945.45 for Alberta in 2016.

So you are correct in that increased minimum wage will increase the government tax revenue, however the worker's take home still goes up as well.

[Jack Hardin]

In 1991 a unionized labourer working at the Caroline Gas Plant was making $21 per hr. No it wasn't me, I never belonged to a union, I just saw the pay scale.

[79ford]

I think we would just need to get rid of the tfw program and the natural market for labour would probably bring the wages near 15$ without legislation.


I always find it funny that people who dont make minimum wage seem to be the most against the idea. Who would work for 12$ per hour? Who could afford it? Lol

If you could get canadians to work for minimum wage then more money would stay in the country and maybe these people could afford the food or whatever else they serve.

[Redfrog]

Gov't needs to stay the heck out business. they can't manage the gov't expenditures, staffing or wage and benefits,with a bottomless pit of tax money, how can they possibly set wages for a 'for profit' business?

Welcome to the gong show. When I lived in B.C. under the NDP tyranny, I was required to pay landscape labourers 22 bux an hour to prep and lay sod. This was 20 years ago. and they had to be told "Green side up" every morning.

Gov't needs to make tax friendly regs. It needs to cut the red tape and unrealistic regs for new business. Satisfying these kind of requirements costs Alberta jobs, plain and simple.

We do need rules and regs but it has become bigger business than the businesses are.

Not much profit in a herd of a 100 sheep managed by three hundred dogs with shears..

[hawk-i]

Originally Posted by Reaver

Definitely not, at least not after first year.

All the guys I know in the trades, including myself have taken a massive pay cut. Why should anyone be getting a raise right now...?

Yeah, I agree times are tough now but still its pretty much impossible for anyone to live off the current minimum wage.
Poverty breads crime...I agree with those that say it should not apply to a student though.

[Redfrog]

What ever happened to that concept of pay for merit??

Do a good job get paid well. Simple eh?

[markg]

You asked the question who works for minimum wage. Well I work for very close to it. Ill say this that $15.00/hr will be a raise for me. I am kinda semi retired and had my own business for years and I work because I like to keep busy. The company I work for may not be able to justify paying me at the increased wage and the possiblity of losing my job is quite real.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by amosfella

@15.00/hr. by 2018
Alberta Taxes $203.60
Federal Taxes $546,95
Total Taxes deducted $750.55 x 24 = $18,013.20
Take home pay $10,786.80
Alberta taxes $4886.40
Federal taxes $13,126.80

So in other words the minimum wage earner will be in the 63% tax bracket. LOL Your source sounds VERY credible.

[fargineyesore]

It's just an added expense to business and won't change anything.

You cannot live on $15.00 per hour and minimum wage was never intended as a "living" wage.

Another example of how clueless this government is. They have zero understanding of business and how an economy works.

They are a bunch of idealistic fools.

[bigskinner]

Originally Posted by OpenRange

I just wanna know what you guys think of this idea.

I hate the idea of a $15 minimum wage, unfortunately it appears we are destined to hit that whether we want it or not as we won't get a chance to boot them out before it is instituted.

Here's the thought I had....Why doesn't the NDP or any other party try to introduce a student wage?

A student wage could be set at something like $10 per hour for all employees enrolled in a learning institution. It would allow those that need a $15 living wage to receive it where they can get it and allow businesses to choose which type of employees they want according to their business.

I imagine the PC's and Wildrose wouldn't want to bring up that idea because they would rather see the $15 wage coming in and see people get laid off which would no doubt drive those people to vote for them so they can change things create jobs and THEN do something like I'm suggesting.

Thoughts?

So what your sayng is you support slave labour for higher profits for Mcdonalds , a multi billion dollar company.

[Redfrog]

"Is it coincidence that Mcdonalds is putting self order stations in there restaurants at the same time politicians across Canada and USA are bringing in minimum wage legislation?"

No not coincidence. Marketing.
How many people today spend a lot of time controlling their lives by pushing buttons. Phones, remotes, I pads, apps, etc?

Go from ordering a standard burger for 4 bux to a 'custom' made one for 6 bux because you saw the extras and they look good and, all it takes for you to have them now is ....push the button. You are in control. Such power!!! Until you go to pay for it. Do you send it back. cancel your order, get the generic burger ad look like a dink in the lineup? No. You buck up.

Min wage may be a factor but the bottom line is a bigger factor.

I do know folks who are servers in the food industry and they do not want the min wage to go up.
The menu prices are already up a couple times since the NDP got in, because of the min wage thing. Tips are way down as customers pay more for meals and rationalize,c that now the server is making much more with the hikes.
We are not even to 15 bux yet and their take home is way down. It will get worse. Check my sigline pic.

[Jadham]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

So in other words the minimum wage earner will be in the 63% tax bracket. LOL Your source sounds VERY credible.

Keeping things civil

Look at the cra's calculator in my above post, and run some numbers through it... it does seem to give a ?too high? deduction rate, giving a weirdly high "effective average tax rate", which I have a hard time with/explaining.

[sjd]

Originally Posted by Jadham

I don't know how your using the calculator but it is wrong.

Incremental increases in wages that change the employee's tax bracket only have increases on the amount in the new bracket, so net pay still goes up (taxes to government do as well).

As a quick example, run through the calculator at:

https://apps.cra-arc.gc.ca/ebci/rhpd/wlcm-bnvn.do

Putting in $24 000 annual income with only basic exemption claimed gives a net (take-home) of $12 235.44 for Alberta in 2016.

Now put in a 25% wage increase, or $30 000 annual income, and only basic exemption, and the net pay is now $14 945.45 for Alberta in 2016.

So you are correct in that increased minimum wage will increase the government tax revenue, however the worker's take home still goes up as well.

Agree with this poster. You can argue about the pros and cons of the minimum wage on employee hiring etc, but please don't post dead wrong information on it lowering take home wages of employees on Facebook.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by amosfella

@15.00/hr. by 2018
Alberta Taxes $203.60
Federal Taxes $546,95
Total Taxes deducted $750.55 x 24 = $18,013.20
Take home pay $10,786.80
Alberta taxes $4886.40
Federal taxes $13,126.80

So in other words the minimum wage earner will be in the 63% tax bracket. LOL Don't think your source sounds too credible.

[ctd]

Originally Posted by fargineyesore

It's just an added expense to business and won't change anything.

You cannot live on $15.00 per hour and minimum wage was never intended as a "living" wage.

Another example of how clueless this government is. They have zero understanding of business and how an economy works.

They are a bunch of idealistic fools.

I know a few people who live on a 40hr a week, $14hr job. They live a very simple life. No luxeries but they are making their way. It is doable.

[amosfella]

....

[rugatika]

I would like to see everyone getting paid $200 an hour no matter what they do. That is the only fair way to do things. Otherwise, how much money you make is based solely on how hard you work, who you know, your personality, your education, etc. Too many unfair variables in life. The government needs to balance the playing field.