‎2012 Hunting Changes and Proposed Changes

[Rockymtnx]

This afternoon at the AFGA conference ASRD presented the following changes and proposed changes for the 2012 season.

- May 9th draw booklet to be printed.
- WMU 250 503 506 will have a antlerless mule deer special licence.
- Saturday and Sunday hunting in Strathcona County.
- Moose season in WMU 152.
- WMU 337 & 338 will no longer have a general archery moose season.
- Elk seasons for WMU 544. Aug-Jan
- WMUs 416-418 420 422 428 430 no general archery elk season.
- Earlier fall black bear season start date in WMUs 300-314 326-342 429 841.
- Eliminate the bear baiting ban in WMU 544.
- Mandatory head submissions for CWD testing in WMUs 160 204 230.
- Discontinuing the land owner quota tags in CWD zones.
- Discontinuing the December season and primitive weapons season back to the pre-CWD seasons in WMUs 150-152 162 163 200 202 232 234 236 256 500. - Allow the use of dark decoys in your spread when using a e-caller for snow geese.
- WMU 841 Sept 1st start date for waterfowl.
- WMU 332 and 330 boundary change to Hwy 22.

Items still being discussed:
- WMUs that have a high general archery mule deer harvest be moved to a draw.
- Changes to sheep hunting.

[Duk Dog]

Thanks for the info. I was wondering what the feedback was going to be regarding sheep hunting - looks like it is still being discussed.

[HunterDave]

Thanks for posting Rocky. Nothing earth shattering for me in there except maybe putting in for an antlerless mulie tag in 506 (maybe).

[duffy4]

I was quite interested in the explanation on how come it takes soooooo loooong to get regulation changes through.

Maybe it would be helpful if AF&GA had their conference a couple months earlier and the AG MAG nonsense took place a month earlier (AF&GA may as well take their wildlife resolutions directly there rather than waste time going to F&W with them).

I had to laugh out loud when Rob C. put up on the screen that they were making a change to the "handgun/pistol" regulations. At first I really thought he was making a joke then I figured maybe he was serious. Which made me laugh harder.

Now I am not sure what to think.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Duk Dog

Thanks for the info. I was wondering what the feedback was going to be regarding sheep hunting - looks like it is still being discussed.

For some reason Jorgenson didn't take any questions after the sheep presentation....

He also did not offer any data, just the summary I posted a link to last week in the Sheep thread.

The sales pitch continues.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by duffy4

I had to laugh out loud when Rob C. put up on the screen that they were making a change to the "handgun/pistol" regulations. At first I really thought he was making a joke then I figured maybe he was serious. Which made me laugh harder.

Now I am not sure what to think.

Can you give more details? Sorry I can't be there this year.

[packhuntr]

Bout high time they got rid of the wintering deer herd slaughter in a bunch of those December prairie WMU's.

[Rocky7]

What was the thinking on cancelling archery general elk in 428 but not 429, I wonder??

[Alberta Bigbore]

Sat and Sun hunting in Strathcona

[petew]

When archery harvest numbers are calculated to determine if a draw is needed do they include Outfitter tag Non Res archery kills in the totals along with resident archery kills? Hope not, but suspect they do.
Pete

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by petew

When archery harvest numbers are calculated to determine if a draw is needed do they include Outfitter tag Non Res archery kills in the totals along with resident archery kills? Hope not, but suspect they do.
Pete

I am afraid that they likely just look at total archery harvest as a percentage of total harvest.

I can see the arguement for putting some wmus on draw for archery, however, I am concerned that there will not be separate draw codes for archery moose, archery mule deer, etc.

Why not go to an archery special license? There will be a separate archery season, but you will have to use up your general species priority. It wasn't clear if the archery season draw was separate from the rifle draw; sure sounded like you wouldn't be able to hunt in the rifle season.

If that is the case, these zones will likely never come close to a 15% archery success rate again.

[petew]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

I am afraid that they likely just look at total archery harvest as a percentage of total harvest. I can see the arguement for putting some wmus on draw for archery, however, I am concerned that there will not be separate draw codes for archery moose, archery mule deer, etc.

Why not go to an archery special license? There will be a separate archery season, but you will have to use up your general species priority. It wasn't clear if the archery season draw was separate from the rifle draw; sure sounded like you wouldn't be able to hunt in the rifle season.

If that is the case, these zones will likely never come close to a 15% archery success rate again.

If they lump us in with Outfitter alocations used for for Archery to reduce our Resident licenses we are being screwed again.

[duffy4]

Originally Posted by avb3

Can you give more details? Sorry I can't be there this year.

Missed seeing you there Andy.

Apparently the government lawyers and the enforcement officers got to looking at the antique handguns loop hole and figured they would close it up with provincial legislation.

Every year the resolution concerning handguns went to the minister the reply was "handguns are a federal responsibility and we can't meddle in that"

Then they quickly "meddled in it".

I think actually the AF&GA resolutions sort of forced their hand. It would have been better to just submit a simple request to "remove handguns from the list of prohibited items" without any Brief or "Where as..."


The ACA have bought their way into a lot of AF&GA hearts with partner $ in land acquisitions. It has been kicking around so long most people do not know how it evolved. I still hope to see it scuttled some day.

[Rocks]

Originally Posted by avb3

Can you give more details? Sorry I can't be there this year.

Too bad, here's some info: http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=115259

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Rocks

Too bad, here's some info: http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=115259

Thanks.

Does anyone know if that is coming from staff or politicians (change in legislation)?

[avb3]

Originally Posted by duffy4

Missed seeing you there Andy.

Apparently the government lawyers and the enforcement officers got to looking at the antique handguns loop hole and figured they would close it up with provincial legislation.

Every year the resolution concerning handguns went to the minister the reply was "handguns are a federal responsibility and we can't meddle in that"

Then they quickly "meddled in it".

I think actually the AF&GA resolutions sort of forced their hand. It would have been better to just submit a simple request to "remove handguns from the list of prohibited items" without any Brief or "Where as..."


The ACA have bought their way into a lot of AF&GA hearts with partner $ in land acquisitions. It has been kicking around so long most people do not know how it evolved. I still hope to see it scuttled some day.

It's too bad the department (I am assuming that is coming from staff) is looking at closing that "loophole".

Mind you, I have half in jest suggest to some F&W staff we should consider a spear with atlatl season. Other then thinking I was nuts, that is one I don't ever think will fly; guess primitive weapons is restricted to inline black powder

You and I will probably see the ACA differently, but if everyone would agree, what fun is that, right?

[Zekeland]

Allow the use of dark decoys in your spread when using a e-caller for snow geese.

They may want to change the wording on this one...like...allowing the use of snow and blue geese decoys when using an ecaller for hunting snow geese.
I believe the wording now is the use of snow goose decoys only...a blue goose is a snow goose. Nothing was really stopping anyone before this new rewording, just use snow goose decoys only, whethere it be whites or blues, they are all snow geese.



If they use the new wording, you may see some hunters mistakenly use their dark, Canada, decoys when using an ecaller. I don't think that is the itention of this new wording ??

[SLH]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

For some reason Jorgenson didn't take any questions after the sheep presentation....

He also did not offer any data, just the summary I posted a link to last week in the Sheep thread.

The sales pitch continues.

\

Not a big surprise about the lack of dialogue, some of the information in that document is so useless taking questions on it would have been difficult for him to justify any of what they are proposing. Hopefully the lack of discussion about the subject means that they are not committed to the orginal goals, otherwise it means that someone doesn't want to talk about the details they just want an outcome that satisfies some other groups needs on this topic.

[bowhunter9841]

I guess I won't be bow hunting moose this year out in 337/338 now! Oh well! Need to get some permission in the bow zone I guess!

[KBF]

Didnt see anyhting about the antered elk draw for WMU 400, still up in the air?

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Zekeland

They may want to change the wording on this one...like...allowing the use of snow and blue geese decoys when using an ecaller for hunting snow geese.
I believe the wording now is the use of snow goose decoys only...a blue goose is a snow goose. Nothing was really stopping anyone before this new rewording, just use snow goose decoys only, whethere it be whites or blues, they are all snow geese.



If they use the new wording, you may see some hunters mistakenly use their dark, Canada, decoys when using an ecaller. I don't think that is the itention of this new wording ??

The change will allow Canada (dark) and other varieties (duck, etc) decoys to be in the set.


Here is the reasoning behind the change.

REMOVE DECOY RESTRICTION WHILE HUNTING SNOW GEESE WITH E-CALL

CURRENT STRATEGY
Electronic snow goose calls may be used during the fall hunting season, but only when hunting over snow goose (white or blue phase) decoys.

CONCERN
Opportunity is lost when hunters, who want to maximize probability of harvesting ducks or dark geese elect to mix decoys. This reduces the use of e-calls thereby reducing potential harvest which is opposed to goals within continental management plans
.
INFORMATION TO SUPPORT CHANGE
Caswell et. al (2002) found that harvest of non-target (dark) geese was not elevated, and was even reduced when using an electronic snow goose call. In practice, hunters typically the volume of electronic snow goose calls upon seeing dark geese or ducks and convert to mouth calls to increase success.

RECOMMENDED CHANGE
Remove the regulation that limits use electronic snow goose calls to those hunting over snow goose decoys only.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by KBF

Didnt see anyhting about the antered elk draw for WMU 400, still up in the air?

No change in 400 Elk for 2012.



I can't recall. Are They are going forward with the changes to Elk in 402.

6point draw, general spike only

Originally Posted by avb3

It's too bad the department (I am assuming that is coming from staff) is looking at closing that "loophole".

Mind you, I have half in jest suggest to some F&W staff we should consider a spear with atlatl season. Other then thinking I was nuts, that is one I don't ever think will fly; guess primitive weapons is restricted to inline black powder

You and I will probably see the ACA differently, but if everyone would agree, what fun is that, right?

We may have to keep quiet about the use of spears or atlatl. Like happened with the hundgun resolution, SRD may shut down the use real primitive weapons as there may be little public opposition to eliminating yet another tool used to hunt.

"Primitive" seasons are gone.

- Discontinuing the December season and primitive weapons season back to the pre-CWD seasons in WMUs 150-152 162 163 200 202 232 234 236 256 500.

This is the AGMAG notes re. handgun hunting.

PROHIBIT THE USE OF HAND GUNS FOR HUNTING BIG GAME IN ALBERTA
CURRENT STRATEGY

The use of a handgun (i.e., any pistol or revolver) for hunting was prohibited under the Wildlife Act sometime in the 1960's. In 2010 the Wildlife Act was amended to accommodate the use of handguns by trappers to dispatch animals caught in traps, the reference to handguns was narrowed to refer only to restricted firearms and prohibited firearms, as defined in the Criminal Code.

Handguns produced prior to 1898 and that do not use centre-fire or rim-fire ammunition, and a very few that do, are not restricted. Consequently, the pre-1898 handguns referred to previously have been captured by the long-standing prohibition of pistols and revolvers in the Wildlife Act are no longer prohibited for hunting by Alberta law. These weapons can be used today to hunt wildlife - subject to other restrictions on calibre, etc.
Federal law requires that a person obtain an Authorization to Carry (ATC) in order to carry/use a restricted firearm or prohibited firearm. Federal law respecting ATC's also states that the circumstances in which these can be issue are where an individual needs restricted firearms and prohibited handguns for use in connection with his or her lawful profession or occupation. Examples include;
- the individual's principal activity is the handling, transportation or protection of cash, negotiable instruments or other goods of substantial value, and firearms are required for the purpose of protecting his or her life or the lives of other individuals in the course of that handling, transportation or protection activity;
- the individual is working in a remote wilderness area and firearms are required for the protection of the life of that individual or other individuals from wild animals; or
- the individual is engaged in the occupation of trapping in a province and is licensed or authorized and trained as required by the laws of that province.
In short, federal law does not accommodate these handguns being carried for general hunting purposes.

CONCERN
When the Wildife Act was amended in 2010, pre-1898 pistols described above became legal to hunt wildlife. The intent of both the Federal Firearms Act and the Wildlife Act is to prohibit the use of handguns for hunting big game in Alberta.

INFORMATION TO SUPPORT CHANGE
The following rationale supports the recommended change to prohibit the use of hand guns for hunting big game in Alberta;
�� Prohibiting the use of handguns for big game hunting is consistent with all other jurisdictions in Canada,
�� The Federal Firearms act does not issue carry permits for big game hunting,
�� The only non-restricted handguns eligible to be carried without a carry permit are antiques made prior to 1898 that are not centre fire or rim fire. The intent of not classifying these guns as restricted was to allow collectors to transport these guns easily, not for the purposes of hunting.

ALTERNATIVE
Continue to allow pre-1898 handguns which are not restricted or prohibited to hunt big game. Clarification in the hunting guide would be required if the proposed amendment does not proceed.

ANTICIPATED PUBLIC REACTION
There is no recent history or tradition of using hand guns for hunting big game in Alberta. Although, there is a small number of individuals who would like to hunt big game in Alberta with handguns, it would not be supported by the vast majority of Albertans.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by SLH

\

Not a big surprise about the lack of dialogue, some of the information in that document is so useless taking questions on it would have been difficult for him to justify any of what they are proposing. Hopefully the lack of discussion about the subject means that they are not committed to the orginal goals, otherwise it means that someone doesn't want to talk about the details they just want an outcome that satisfies some other groups needs on this topic.

Well there does seem to be a difference in opinion within F&W as to the existence of "hunting influenced genetic selection". Jorgenson sure is pushing hard to excrete this baby. Others within F&W admit the genetic claim is NOT detectable with the available data.


It was interesting to learn that Bianchet was the individual to analyze the Sheep data. No self interest in the results possible here....

[SLH]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Well there does seem to be a difference in opinion within F&W as to the existence of "hunting influenced genetic selection". Jorgenson sure is pushing hard to excrete this baby. Others within F&W admit the genetic claim is NOT detectable with the available data.


It was interesting to learn that Bianchet was the individual to analyze the Sheep data. No self interest in the results possible here....

That's disturbing, it wasn't that long ago that people recognized when they were in conflict of interest and excluded themselves from such tasks to bad we have long passed those days and self interest, self preservation and self importance seem to dominate.

[Zekeland]

walking buffalo

thanks for the clarification. It all makes sense now.

[top predator]

Originally Posted by Rockymtnx

This afternoon at the AFGA conference ASRD presented the following changes and proposed changes for the 2012 season.

- May 9th draw booklet to be printed.
- WMU 250 503 506 will have a antlerless mule deer special licence.
- Saturday and Sunday hunting in Strathcona County.
- Moose season in WMU 152.
- WMU 337 & 338 will no longer have a general archery moose season.
- Elk seasons for WMU 544. Aug-Jan
- WMUs 416-418 420 422 428 430 no general archery elk season.
- Earlier fall black bear season start date in WMUs 300-314 326-342 429 841.
- Eliminate the bear baiting ban in WMU 544.
- Mandatory head submissions for CWD testing in WMUs 160 204 230.
- Discontinuing the land owner quota tags in CWD zones.
- Discontinuing the December season and primitive weapons season back to the pre-CWD seasons in WMUs 150-152 162 163 200 202 232 234 236 256 500. - Allow the use of dark decoys in your spread when using a e-caller for snow geese.
- WMU 841 Sept 1st start date for waterfowl.
- WMU 332 and 330 boundary change to Hwy 22.

Items still being discussed:
- WMUs that have a high general archery mule deer harvest be moved to a draw.
- Changes to sheep hunting.

Wonder why they closed 338and337 archery?

[hal53]

Kind of interesting that no one cares about the extended season in the prairie WMU's......until Dec. 1st??????

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by hal53

Kind of interesting that no one cares about the extended season in the prairie WMU's......until Dec. 1st??????

Why would guys care now Hal? Its been so completely shot to hell its not worth thier fuel to come back to. And this is what weve been left with,, wanna see,, its pretty sad. It was b.s. extending the season like that and I dont care who says different.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Why would guys care now Hal? Its been so completely shot to hell its not worth thier fuel to come back to. And this is what weve been left with,, wanna see,, its pretty sad. It was b.s. extending the season like that and I dont care who says different.

you are exactly right...it is done!!! The very few deer u see here are in nice shape, but.....this ain't gonna come back in a season or two, Thanks you guys who helped out the Food Bank, or had to spend $200 plus in gas to drive here to "feed your family".... it's sad out there boys....

[gman1978]

Originally Posted by hal53

you are exactly right...it is done!!! The very few deer u see here are in nice shape, but.....this ain't gonna come back in a season or two, Thanks you guys who helped out the Food Bank, or had to spend $200 plus in gas to drive here to "feed your family".... it's sad out there boys....

Hal,

Did they finally come to there senses and axe the extended season for the prairie wmu's?