Speechless

DarkAisling · #1 09-30-2009, 09:30 AM

Just had one of those conversations that leaves me speechless, which is a rare occurrence.

Asked someone I've known very well for five years to be a reference on my PAL application, as even though I had a PAL that expired years ago I need to get the references to get a new one. Kinda dumb, but whatever.

Quote:
"Hmmm. I'm not really comfortable with firearms in general. That being the case, I'll have to decline as being a reference."

This person didn't say "Gee, Shell. I think you're nuts, so there is no way I'm gonna sign it." I could have lived with that . . . I'm so offended by what was said that I don't even know what to think.

Albertadiver · #2 09-30-2009, 09:32 AM

Some folks just hate guns. That's their choice I guess.

I'd have to respect that if someone said it to me. Although not all of my friends would come hunting with me, the usually don't mind trying a few shots at the range. Never been friends with an anti though....

I do dislike passive aggressive people though. Seems like that was the kind of response you got.

Grizzled · #3 09-30-2009, 09:33 AM

???

DarkAisling · #4 09-30-2009, 09:44 AM

Wow. Just got a second refusal! And this was from the second person I phoned. The same reason as the first.

I think what is leaving me so shocked here, is that I had no idea I had any "anti" friends. I'm pretty sure both of these people have eaten my moose jerky in the past. Do they think it came from Safeway?

marlin1 · #5 09-30-2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAisling

Wow. Just got a second refusal! And this was from the second person I phoned. The same reason as the first.

I think what is leaving me so shocked here, is that I had no idea I had any "anti" friends. I'm pretty sure both of these people have eaten my moose jerky in the past. Do they think it came from Safeway?

you need more friends with guns

maybe some people from the board . Problem is I guess you need to know them a few years , good luck with your PAL though

DAVE · #6 09-30-2009, 09:54 AM

Time to find new freinds.

DarkAisling · #7 09-30-2009, 10:04 AM

My old friends are alright . . . but they're not getting any more of my jerky.

I do have a big pool of people to draw from for references, but I figured I'd start with the people I see most often. Called a third person, who I know leans a little toward being an "anti," and the answer was "Sure, no problem."

Copidosoma · #8 09-30-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAisling

Wow. Just got a second refusal! And this was from the second person I phoned. The same reason as the first.

I think what is leaving me so shocked here, is that I had no idea I had any "anti" friends. I'm pretty sure both of these people have eaten my moose jerky in the past. Do they think it came from Safeway?

Maybe you need to put that question to them.

Dick284 · #9 09-30-2009, 10:52 AM

Wow. Ya sure find out who your true frineds are don't ya.

On our first PAL app's

I used my wife as a refrence, and she used me, and our second refrence was the best man at our wedding, he's a cop in Edmonton too.

Now with renewals the wife and I just sign off on each others form, get the pictures and we are done.

flygirrl · #10 09-30-2009, 11:37 AM

Well you do have to respect the fact that the person in question was not afraid to say what they feel. Im glad that every one I know hunts or fishes.

huntinstuff · #11 09-30-2009, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAisling

My old friends are alright . . . but they're not getting any more of my jerky.I do have a big pool of people to draw from for references, but I figured I'd start with the people I see most often. Called a third person, who I know leans a little toward being an "anti," and the answer was "Sure, no problem."

Exactly. And when they ask, tell them why....

ACKLEY ABE · #12 09-30-2009, 12:41 PM

I would take this very seriously......They are not telling you they are not comfortable with guns......They are saying they don't think you should have guns. You are asking them for a reference regarding you as a person, not their oppinions of our current firearms law. I would be very dissapointed...

CaberTosser · #13 09-30-2009, 01:36 PM

I'd probably have asked them why they are so uncomfortable with firearms, and if they wanted to learn about and/or try using them. I'd also note something along the lines of how you use it as a tool to provide food, how could someone stand in opposition to your providing for yourself and your family?

It was covered so well in 'Shane', that there's little reason to go further:

Quote:

A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other
tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as
the man using it. Remember that.

Maybe we could modify that old quote to say " A gun is as good or as bad as the person using it to include the ladies who use firearms as well.

DarkAisling · #14 09-30-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACKLEY ABE

You are asking them for a reference regarding you as a person, not their oppinions of our current firearms law. I would be very dissapointed...

I am, especially since I was a reference for one of them on his passport application, and the passport photo guarantor for the other. Go figure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

I'd probably have asked them why they are so uncomfortable with firearms, and if they wanted to learn about and/or try using them. I'd also note something along the lines of how you use it as a tool to provide food, how could someone stand in opposition to your providing for yourself and your family?

The third person I asked (and the one I thought might say "No"), was the only one to care to have a conversation about it. She asked "Why do you need this?" I told her (so I can purchase a rifle for my son, who is not yet 18, to use at the range). She then said she'd do it. Nice and simple.

Grizzly Adams · #15 09-30-2009, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAisling

My old friends are alright . . . but they're not getting any more of my jerky.

I do have a big pool of people to draw from for references, but I figured I'd start with the people I see most often. Called a third person, who I know leans a little toward being an "anti," and the answer was "Sure, no problem."

Your friends may be alright, but apparently they don't have a high enough opinion of your character, which they are being asked to endorse. With friends like that, who needs enemies.

Grizz

feetfats · #16 09-30-2009, 10:06 PM

I suppose them rejecting you like that is a lot better then them giving a bad testimony to the gov't when they get the phone call

these people really need to be good friends cause they get asked really crazy questions,,, such as " has so and so ever been in a violent situation,,,, or has so in so ever acted violently"

any of these questions need to be answered " no never" and not everyone is comfortable with that

every human has been in a violent situation and 99% of us have acted violently at some time,,, if this friend is too honest with the answers then it can cost you your licence and some people cant lie while under pressure

Albertadiver · #17 09-30-2009, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feetfats

I suppose them rejecting you like that is a lot better then them giving a bad testimony to the gov't when they get the phone call

Good point

Jerry D · #18 10-01-2009, 06:22 AM

I'd give them the cold shoulder and if they have any brains they'll know why! But hey - that's just me and people believe what they want to believe.

I'm surprised though that they said no even though you give them jerky which obviously they know comes from moose which obviously they know comes from hunting which obviously they know you use rifles/shotguns/bows/xbows/ and other tools to hunt - or maybe they didn't they didn't think that far back after they bit into that jerky!

DarkAisling · #19 10-01-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feetfats

these people really need to be good friends cause they get asked really crazy questions,,, such as " has so and so ever been in a violent situation,,,, or has so in so ever acted violently"

Well, I have been in a violent situation. That is a matter of public record.

This just became interesting.

Would they really refuse my PAL for being a victim of domestic violence? Does my being a "victim" imply that others will become victims at my hand? Am I any less trustworthy than the hundreds of thousands of women who are afraid to call 911 and confront the ensuing criminal process head on?

Anyway, I've instructed my references to be blatantly and 100% honest. I'm very curious to see how this plays out.

Whiskey Wish · #20 10-01-2009, 04:13 PM

My Pa used to use an expression:

" Lord protect me from my friends, I can fight my enemies!"

I think I have a better understanding now of what he was getting at....

This is a tough one. If you believe we all have a right to our own opinions then I suppose you would have to agree your friends have a right to their own unless you hang your friendship based on them having to agree with everything you believe in as well.
AND... if they are truly friends then why wouldn't they agree that you are a solid enough citizen to have a PAL ?
So many viewpoints...so little clarity.
Me? I'd say okay and mentally move them from the "Friend" category to the "Acquaintance" category and treat them accordingly. Then go find someone else to sign my PAL ap and go tilt at other windmills.
My 2 cents worth.

Keep Your Powder Dry
Dave.

Grizzly Adams · #21 10-01-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAisling

Well, I have been in a violent situation. That is a matter of public record.

This just became interesting.

Would they really refuse my PAL for being a victim of domestic violence? Does my being a "victim" imply that others will become victims at my hand? Am I any less trustworthy than the hundreds of thousands of women who are afraid to call 911 and confront the ensuing criminal process head on?

Anyway, I've instructed my references to be blatantly and 100% honest. I'm very curious to see how this plays out.

Reminds me of the story, regarding a friend of mine. The reference was asked if my friend would harm his ex-wife. If he was going to do so, he'd have done her in, a long time ago, was the reply.

Grizz

Supermag · #22 10-01-2009, 04:37 PM

Sounds like the same sort that would object to "big gas guzzling pickups", while driving around in their teeny Smart Cars wearing a hemp T-shirt that says Eco-Avenger or some crap like that on it.

Then they call everyine that they know with a pickup when it's time to move.

I would simply shut them down for any favor at all.

The Rog Man · #23 10-01-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave C

Sounds like the same sort that would object to "big gas guzzling pickups", while driving around in their teeny Smart Cars wearing a hemp T-shirt that says Eco-Avenger or some crap like that on it.

Then they call everyine that they know with a pickup when it's time to move.

I would simply shut them down for any favor at all.

Not too change the topic but.
So what does that make me?
I own one of those teeny weeny smart cars which i drive every day and I park it right next too my GMC 2500HD 4x4 pickup which i drive every weekend.
Maybe i am just one of those walking contradictions???

twofifty · #24 10-01-2009, 07:59 PM

Boy that sucks big time. It will be interesting to see how these friendships evolve. Certainly no gifts of jerky or steaks in their future.

Good references would be the folk who you hunt with or shoot with. Friends from your R&G or F&G club are good picks too, provided they've known you for the required # of years, know you have a good handle on your temper, and know your gun handling is sound.

Folk like that should have no problem comfortably and truthfully answering the CFC's questions.

twofifty · #25 10-01-2009, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rog Man

...Maybe i am just one of those walking contradictions???

I think we all are if you stop and think about it.
Certainly applies to me.

The Rog Man · #26 10-01-2009, 09:16 PM

I'm not sure how i would react if any of my friends said no too being a reference on my pal.
The fact is i asked 4 or 5 of my friends and they all agreed instantly,
I actually had too calm one of them down when i didn't use his name on my application.LOL
If any of them had said no i would have asked why and dealt with it from there but i guess i was just lucky as all of my friends hunt and shoot with me.
Still if i was you those guys wouldn't be gettin any jerky or any wild meat of any kind for a long time.
And make sure when you get your jerky too call them and tell them how good it is and that they can't have any??

Supermag · #27 10-02-2009, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rog Man

Not too change the topic but.
So what does that make me?
I own one of those teeny weeny smart cars which i drive every day and I park it right next too my GMC 2500HD 4x4 pickup which i drive every weekend.
Maybe i am just one of those walking contradictions???

The point of my comment was more intended to focus on the "friends" that only seem to call when they need something. Also, the type of people that look down on something (like driving a pickup) until it's something they need.

You have both, so likely don't see things that way. If you join in with that group and chastize those that drive pickups, then drive your truck on the weekend, then maybe you are a walking contradiction.

rhuntley12 · #28 10-02-2009, 07:53 AM

Strange, they take your jerky but refuse to be a reference for you.

Just got PAL finally after about 5 months in the mail, none of my references were actually called.

Stinky Buffalo · #29 10-02-2009, 10:05 AM

Yep, it's all good and fine for those type of people to be "uncomfortable with firearms", right up to the point where they become vicimized by crime (home invasion, etc.) - I'd bet their tune changes in a hurry.

Ever notice in the movies, the final struggle is usually over who can get control over the gun. Even the bleeding hearts will be sitting on the edge of their seats, whispering to their hero on the screen, "Get the gun! Get the gun!"

Hope your reference hunt goes well, DarkAisling.

Stinky

Okotokian · #30 10-02-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACKLEY ABE

I would take this very seriously......They are not telling you they are not comfortable with guns......They are saying they don't think you should have guns. You are asking them for a reference regarding you as a person, not their oppinions of our current firearms law. I would be very dissapointed...

I wouldn't try to read TOO much into it. Sort of like if you asked your parish priest to sign your credit application for the local casino. He may think you are great but he's probably going to decline. Hey, at least they didn't try to lecture you.