Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > Fly-Fishing Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 09-16-2014, 10:20 PM
ÜberFly's Avatar
ÜberFly ÜberFly is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,921
Default

Yup!

Nope! I had some assistance from an archeologist friend and a senior mapping technologist.

The process was explained on here a few years back, if I remember correctly.

Sorry...

P

Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbigdiddy View Post
So UberFly I checked out this page online

http://www.servicealberta.ca/LandTitles.cfm

is that where you got your documentit seems like quite a process ... how did you get the land ID # ?
or did you use a different service?
I want to buy a copy of this title
can you let me know exactly how to go about it
thanks
Diddy
__________________
The virtuous find delight in mountains, the wise in rivers.

-Confucius

Last edited by ÜberFly; 09-16-2014 at 10:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09-17-2014, 09:43 AM
BBT BBT is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cochrane
Posts: 626
Default

A few years back this came up on another forum. I sent an email to the Riparian Land Management & Water Boundaries Unit
Land Management Branch, Lands Division
Alberta Sustainable Resource Development






Chris, this was forwarded to me for an answer.



I have received questions like this from others before, particularly about fishing below the banks of the Crowsnest River in southern Alberta.



In general, and for the vast majority of water bodies, the Crown is the owner of the stream bed. This is so because the streambeds were never subject to grant and were specifically excluded from titles, or by Section 3 of the Public Lands Act grants title to streambeds to the Crown.



There are some exceptions to the general rule.



The main exception is lands that were formerly owned by the Hudson's Bay Company. Prior to confederation of Canada, the Hudson's Bay Company (HBC) of fur traders through a Royal Charter from King Charles II of England, owned by deed what was then called Rupert's Land which included all the land in the Province of Alberta as we know it today. When the HBC surrendered its lands in 1870 to the Dominion of Canada, it did so with some conditions attached including the retention of a portion of lands for the HBC. These lands included their posts, a block of land adjoining each post, and a grant of land in each township within the lands set out for settlement not exceeding one twentieth of those lands. Of these lands, the HBC retained ownership of all lands south of the North Saskatchewan River within Section 8 and all of Section 26 except the northeast quarter section in every township as it was surveyed. In every fifth township surveyed, the HBC retained full title to all of Section 26 and all of Section 8. Today, the beds and shores within these parcels of land are generally understood to be owned by the current titleholder as titles based on the original deeds were passed onto subsequent landowners (unless expressly conveyed otherwise).



The other exception would be where a land grant/title specifically includes the bed and shore of a stream in its description. The only way to determine this is to view the title. If it is silent (i.e. doesn't say anything) then section 3 applies and the crown owns the bed and shore.



Additional information is available on our website at http://srd.alberta.ca/


Then I did a follow up email asking

The two main areas are on the Crowsnest(Sara's B&B SW and NW of 17, Twp 7, Rng 2, W5M) like you mentioned and the Jumpingpound Creek just down stream of highway 1 with the odd mention of the North Raven. From the info you have provided below it would seem that I will need to find the titles of these lands in question or is there a reference somewhere that pinpoints these owners? I have zero knowledge of the workings of land titles and any help would be appreciated.


And then I got this responce.


Actually, I had a feeling you were implying Sara's as I have heard this many times before when I have been down south! I specifically checked our files before I responded and can tell you that the bed and shore of the Crowsnest River in sections NW 17, SW20 and all of 18 in TWP 7 Rg2 W5 are Crown owned by exception. The titles exclude the river specifically. The adjoining landowners cannot force a fisherman out of the stream bed if they are traversing it below the bank.

I am not aware of issues involving Jumpingpound Creek but a legal land location would suffice to begin search of a land title.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 09-17-2014, 09:48 AM
gnugen's Avatar
gnugen gnugen is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 217
Default

This is one of my favourite threads to follow at the moment!

Fished it with the TUC Stewardship project last weekend and very nice country. Would be good to know my boundaries so I don't have 'dem folk' chasing me in my hip waders.
__________________
Living the dream fishing the seam.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 09-17-2014, 04:40 PM
rycoma rycoma is offline
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 744
Default

Your stewardship license is only good above the k country border. Make sure you know where that is. It is well away from the area in question.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 09-18-2014, 09:26 AM
travellingflyguy travellingflyguy is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 31
Default

Eff that dude. He's a ***. I fish that **** regardless and that guy has no right to grill anyone.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 09-18-2014, 09:29 AM
gnugen's Avatar
gnugen gnugen is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 217
Default

Thanks! Checked it out on the map this week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rycoma View Post
Your stewardship license is only good above the k country border. Make sure you know where that is. It is well away from the area in question.
__________________
Living the dream fishing the seam.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 09-18-2014, 03:18 PM
rycoma rycoma is offline
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 744
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by travellingflyguy View Post
Eff that dude. He's a ***. I fish that **** regardless and that guy has no right to grill anyone.
He may not but do you have lots of money to spend on a lawyer. Cause that's were it will end up. The cops don't have all the info when it comes to this kind of thing. You'll be charged, removed and then you get to go to court and fight it out. Pick your battles there are better places to fish on J.P. That you don't have to worry about.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 09-18-2014, 04:42 PM
thumper's Avatar
thumper thumper is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canmore
Posts: 4,740
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rycoma View Post
He may not but do you have lots of money to spend on a lawyer. Cause that's were it will end up. The cops don't have all the info when it comes to this kind of thing. You'll be charged, removed and then you get to go to court and fight it out. Pick your battles there are better places to fish on J.P. That you don't have to worry about.
That's the kind of approach that will continue to whittle away our access to public lands. I believe that if you assert your right to be there, the adjacent land-owners and the cops will be better educated to benefit the next guy exploring that lovely little creek.

If it means that the cops or crown prosecutor has to do a little research, then thats a good thing - protecting the rights of law-abiding citizens.
__________________
The world is changed by your action, not by your opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 09-18-2014, 05:48 PM
rycoma rycoma is offline
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 744
Default

Well I don't have a few thousand to blow on court fees and lawyers. Like most people don't. So why go out of my way to have to prove my innocence. No thanks. If it happens and I'm in the right you know damn well I will fight for it. Why go looking for trouble let the d-bags go after people, one day they will go after someone that can afforded it and it will set a precedence in our province. J.p. Is a big river and I would rather not deal with f- tards like that
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 09-18-2014, 06:07 PM
BigSky BigSky is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 45
Default

I tend to agree with Rycoma, hence the reason I don't bother fishing there when there's better options elsewhere.

But…

This is exactly what these landowners want so I don't blame some for fishing there anyway. If their property is an exception to the general law applied everywhere else, wouldn't the burden of proof be in their hands? If the landowners are wrong, wouldn't they have to pay your legal fees if you took them to court for false accusing you i the first place? I believe this is exactly what is happening right now with a fellow from Cochrane.

Personally I don't have enough time to get into some legal battle over it, but man I wish somebody had the resources to take these people up on it (if the landowners are in fact wrong).
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 09-21-2014, 01:16 AM
grinr grinr is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SW Cowgree
Posts: 1,810
Default

Haha,great story diddy.
I'd imagine they must've been fantastic neighbours back around 1890,lol....shoot first,ask questions later,or just fire a couple warning shots into your back,then yell AND DONT COME BACK!! Lmao
Next time you should explain to them that allowing trespassing strangers onto the property occasionally might help add some diversity to their family gene pool,LOL
Great to see families out enjoying the outdoors together with ma n pa learnin' the youngens by example.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 09-21-2014, 07:48 AM
Taco Taco is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Claresholm, Ab
Posts: 4,022
Default

Hillbillies don't own or control 10s of thousands of acres or thousands of mother cows and keep it in the same family for over 130 yrs. The Copithorne family came from nothing with nothing and, right or wrong, are a fiercely proud protective bunch.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 09-21-2014, 08:18 AM
honda450's Avatar
honda450 honda450 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 6,952
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco View Post
Hillbillies don't own or control 10s of thousands of acres or thousands of mother cows and keep it in the same family for over 130 yrs. The Copithorne family came from nothing with nothing and, right or wrong, are a fiercely proud protective bunch.
One of the Copithorne gals was my teacher in grade 5 or 6. Don't remember her first name, but she was hot. hehe
__________________
Smoke or Fire in the Forest Dial 310-FIRE


thegungirl.ca @gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 09-21-2014, 07:32 PM
greatbigdiddy greatbigdiddy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 133
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco View Post
Hillbillies don't own or control 10s of thousands of acres or thousands of mother cows and keep it in the same family for over 130 yrs. The Copithorne family came from nothing with nothing and, right or wrong, are a fiercely proud protective bunch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwzaxUF0k18
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 09-21-2014, 07:58 PM
greatbigdiddy greatbigdiddy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 133
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by honda450 View Post
One of the Copithorne gals was my teacher in grade 5 or 6. Don't remember her first name, but she was hot. hehe
hey Honda sounds like you had a regular ELLIE - MAE there

and Taco how come your being so pertective of them there Copithornes do you have special permission to fish south of the 292 .... Im just kidding Buddy

No honestly the Hillbillie photo I put up was just a lil joke they didn't really look or sound too hillbillie but they did use a lot of foul language and they were just too aggressive especially if the streambed rights they claim are false but the part that got me the most was that I was sure I was in the right but they eventually scared me into leaving at least until I could check out their claims ... and then those kids spouting off waving their slingshots like they really taught me ... it just sticks in my craw even now years later ... you have to admit that scene was a little hillbillie -ish ...... and I do know a lot of self made wealthy organised cattle guys that are still pretty backward thinking

as far as better spots on the JP .... Im not an expert on the upper reaches in cutty territory but as far as Rainbows go that summer when I was fishing that certain section was by far the best fishing I have experienced on that stream ... I have got close to that section a few times since and it was n owhere near as good as it was that year ... but hey maybe I owe the coppithornes and their ways for those memories ... maybe that is why it was so good ... they kept the pressure down ...

I do wish I was making episodes of the New wave Angler back then cause just imagine if I could of showed you guys that whole scenario instead of just telling you .... cmon you wouldn't get a kick out of watching some aggressive man and his double aggressive wife and there hillbillie kids run my chubby ***** off their land at slingshot point while poor Deano hides in the trees peeing himself .... haha just kidding Deano.

cheers guys great input for sure.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 09-21-2014, 08:15 PM
greatbigdiddy greatbigdiddy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 133
Default

Deano when the slingshotz get pulled out LOL!!!

Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 09-22-2014, 07:59 AM
Taco Taco is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Claresholm, Ab
Posts: 4,022
Default

No GBD I do not know the Copithornes but I do know cattlemen/ranchers and their attitudes about the new Albertan. Have you ever tried contacting the CL Ranch for trespass permission whether or not you think you have that right? Be respectful, refrain from hillbilly comments and try not to ogle the women and you may or may not be surprised by trying. They even have a website for your convenience.

Out of 50 yrs of asking I've only ever been turned down a handful of times
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 09-22-2014, 12:00 PM
403jeepin's Avatar
403jeepin 403jeepin is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West of Calgary
Posts: 53
Default

So is there any progress on weather this section of river is open to public...
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 09-22-2014, 06:26 PM
greatbigdiddy greatbigdiddy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 133
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco View Post
No GBD I do not know the Copithornes but I do know cattlemen/ranchers and their attitudes about the new Albertan. Have you ever tried contacting the CL Ranch for trespass permission whether or not you think you have that right? Be respectful, refrain from hillbilly comments and try not to ogle the women and you may or may not be surprised by trying. They even have a website for your convenience.

Out of 50 yrs of asking I've only ever been turned down a handful of times
Taco if you read my story above again you will see that after the wildlife officer told me it would be ok to fish ... I didn't just go .... instead I got the land owners phone number and politely asked if I could come back ... he was even worse on the phone more aggressive

from above ..... "So I did some investigating and got a phone number for the gentleman that I had the altercation with .... I gave him a call and told him what the fish and wildlife told me and asked if there would be a problem if I came back and fished the creek ... he exploded on me and said he did not care who I talked to and that if I stepped foot on that creek again it would not end as peacefully as the other day and I would end up in jail ... just before he hung up on me he said call your fish and wildlife back and tell him we are Coppithornes."

so although I agree with your advice .... in this situation ... doesn't seem like it would matter .... however you mentioned something else regarding a website that I may look into ... thanks
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 09-22-2014, 08:20 PM
rycoma rycoma is offline
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 744
Default

Why is everyone so intent on fishing here. Jumping pound is a big creek and all the hassle for what there are much nicer spots to fish on it with a possibility of way more and bigger fish. I have fished there a couple times never had an issue but not much for fish. Further upstream is my cup of tea but to each there own I guess.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 09-22-2014, 08:23 PM
Taco Taco is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Claresholm, Ab
Posts: 4,022
Default

Every family has an ass with inflated opinion, looks like you met him... me? life too friggin' short and there should be a pile more JP to fish without the drama.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 09-23-2014, 06:45 AM
Lornce's Avatar
Lornce Lornce is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 2,663
Default

Funny I fished that stretch a few dozen times about 15 years ago, never had a problem but I don't think anyone noticed me, the creek is lower than the land in many places, later I started hearing stories about the protective nature of that family so didn't bother with it any more. Not interested in stress on the water. Better waters elsewhere anyway and I don't fish to prove a point.
__________________
Often I have been exhausted on trout streams, uncomfortable, wet, cold, briar scarred, sunburned, mosquito bitten,
but never, with a fly rod in my hand have I been in a place that was less than beautiful.

My blog - casting on the waters

fishing regulations and facts on fish handling
Fishing Regulations
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 09-23-2014, 07:56 AM
greatbigdiddy greatbigdiddy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 133
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco View Post
Every family has an ass with inflated opinion, looks like you met him... me? life too friggin' short and there should be a pile more JP to fish without the drama.

I agree ..... I've just had a hard time letting it go cause it had quite an affect on me and my fishing for a couple years, I also agree with Rycoma and Lornce's above statements .... I think this whole thread/discussion has helped me with the lasting affects of my run in with the Copithornes ... It doesn't bother me as much now that I know how many people this has happened to ... I no longer feel alone ...LOL!! And I do feel a bit lucky to not actually have had to go to court and pay big $$$ to defend myself. That money could and has been better spent on flies and gas to get me to bigger, better and more beautiful places.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 09-23-2014, 09:22 AM
spinerfisher's Avatar
spinerfisher spinerfisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 284
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rycoma View Post
Why is everyone so intent on fishing here. Jumping pound is a big creek and all the hassle for what there are much nicer spots to fish on it with a possibility of way more and bigger fish. I have fished there a couple times never had an issue but not much for fish. Further upstream is my cup of tea but to each there own I guess.

When buddies and I first fished that section in the late 90s, we parked on #1 bridge and just kept walking down as it seems fishier. Waded way down and found some really nice pools. Started hooking into them ,then out of no where guy comes to creek shotgun in hand yelling get of my damn creek, we cant fish here. At the very moment buddie hooks a nice bull. Guys starts yelling that's a bull trout and put that damn thing back, so my buddie tells him the hook still in the mouth and cant get it out.please wait please.lol...funny when buddy and i now about it how fast that hook came out of that fishes mouth..Anyways we left right after that fish back up to the hwy #1 bridge and along the whole way we all were quiet. Arrived at the vehicle and all say what the heck just happened? Was for sure a really productive section, but we got the hint
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 09-23-2014, 06:40 PM
spinN'flyfish spinN'flyfish is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: By the shores of the bow
Posts: 988
Default

The section at the demo forest is destroyed, the bridge collasped. Really snaggy. I tried to cast it far out but snagged the trees. Didnt bring waders or sandals. Saw a bunch of brookies or cutties rising. Felt so so bad. Any other access besides the jumpingpound creek PRA? The highway 1 sounds like one could get in a fight so im avoidin that. Hows it fishing in Cochrane crossed by George trail?
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 09-23-2014, 07:29 PM
rycoma rycoma is offline
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 744
Default

Go further upstream. You were close
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 09-23-2014, 07:59 PM
spinN'flyfish spinN'flyfish is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: By the shores of the bow
Posts: 988
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rycoma View Post
Go further upstream. You were close
Demo forest? Or hwy 1 bridge?
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 09-23-2014, 08:40 PM
rycoma rycoma is offline
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 744
Default

im not gonna give you all my secret spots. Re read your post then re read mine. Google maps is your friend
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 09-23-2014, 09:08 PM
spinN'flyfish spinN'flyfish is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: By the shores of the bow
Posts: 988
Default

i see, might try it in the future, but i will try out the jp creek PRA too. Hope that certain spot you gave me won't be too snaggy with all the logs etc. I just know that jp creek has fish almost everywhere
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 09-23-2014, 09:46 PM
rycoma rycoma is offline
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 744
Default

Not to bad there are some downed trees but that's where the big guys hide. It's not a huge section but good enough for a few hours walk and wade. You won't have to make big casts either max 20' maybe 30'. When you find it you'll understand why I dont bother lower down.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.