Anyone hear about the ram tag auction that is a year around tag??

[leeelmer]

As per the the Calgary harold
https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...aises-concerns

Alberta Outfitters lobbied the government for this to be done.
Never heard about it before this story.
I don’t have a issue with a ram tag auction
But not a fan of a year around tag at all.

[Grizzly Adams1]

But not a fan of a year around tag at all.

Trust the outfitters of APOS, rams are much more vulnerable in winter, basically makes it a slam dunk "hunt".

Grizz

[calgarychef]

Animals are trying to survive in the winter, they’ve rutted and are recovering.
Winter isn’t the time to harass them.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

We got all kind of year round hunting going on in Alberta. One millionaire hunting with a guide is a non issue. To bad the guy in the article didn’t bring up the year round Indian harvest.

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

We got all kind of year round hunting going on in Alberta. One millionaire hunting with a guide is a non issue. To bad the guy in the article didn’t bring up the year round Indian harvest.

That's a totally different issue we have no control over, tragically.

Grizz

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

That's a totally different issue we have no control over, tragically.

Grizz

It’s the main issue. The issue holding this province back from being what it could be.

[mntmanpick]

Well I am the guy that brought this to the attention of hunters and now the public. If you found it wrong for non licensed hunters how do you find it right for licensed hunters. If it’s about money I have suggested to the government in my recent letters others ways of raising money like raising draw application by $2 which would raise 1 million 450,00 draw apps last year. Or better yet manage the 19.6 million they took in from hunters $5,000,000 went into general revenue. Again this is 12 tags for 6 species which are not in surplus at this time of year. If it wrong is wrong. No amount of money will put these mature animals back on the mountain.

[goldscud]

profit for the few over conservation...the AB way.

Well said mtnmanpick

[Huntingjunkie]

Originally Posted by mntmanpick

Well I am the guy that brought this to the attention of hunters and now the public. If you found it wrong for non licensed hunters how do you find it right for licensed hunters. If it’s about money I have suggested to the government in my recent letters others ways of raising money like raising draw application by $2 which would raise 1 million 450,00 draw apps last year. Or better yet manage the 19.6 million they took in from hunters $5,000,000 went into general revenue. Again this is 12 tags for 6 species which are not in surplus at this time of year. If it wrong is wrong. No amount of money will put these mature animals back on the mountain.

To be fair. There is only 2 animals that are in question. The two sheep permits.
No one is hunting moose, elk or deer into Jan or later. Because they might have dropped their antlers already. In all reality regarding the sheep, does it matter if they are shot in sept or dec? Two rams are going to get shot on the ministers tags. Regardless of the time of year. Do you think a sheep hunter that is willing to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars is going to want to shoot a sheep in the middle of March on their wintering range. Or do you think they are going to be trying to catch one roaming in the rut? Remember, this is just the opportunity to hunt at any time of the year. Your not obligated to hunt in winter.

Just my perspective

[WinefredCommander]

It’s pretty greasy. MSP sheep tag holders tired of competing with Joe Public. Shoot ‘em right out of the ditch in March. Too bad their hides looks like ****. Going to be paying landholders outside of the NPs where the sit all winter.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by goldscud

profit for the few over conservation...the AB way.

Well said mtnmanpick

Who's profiting? I would say the sheep.
You know what the tag brought at auction this year? Over 1/2 a million canadian dollars. Reason for the huge jump is the 365 season. Where do you suppose the money goes raised from the auction?

As stated above, this is about 2 tags (sheep). The others are irrelevant.

I think it's fantastic

[harv3589]

Where does the money go? How do the sheep benefit? I have looked into so I’m curious

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Who's profiting? I would say the sheep.
You know what the tag brought at auction this year? Over 1/2 a million canadian dollars. Reason for the huge jump is the 365 season. Where do you suppose the money goes raised from the auction?

As stated above, this is about 2 tags (sheep). The others are irrelevant.

I think it's fantastic

I agree with this completely.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by harv3589

where does the money go? How do the sheep benefit? I have looked into so i’m curious

wsf

[CNP]

Meh...

Too many issues of much greater significance to be concerned about. This shouldn't even make it in the top 100 things we should be concerned about.

[mntmanpick]

Go to AFGA site click on grants to see where the money goes. This misconception it all goes back on the mountain has never happened.

[Huntingjunkie]

Originally Posted by mntmanpick

Go to AFGA site click on grants to see where the money goes. This misconception it all goes back on the mountain has never happened.

Some of it was supposed to do to disease prevention for wild sheep
Guess there wasn’t enough money

[LJalberta]

I don’t have a problem with these limited ram tags being year round. As others have noted, they’re pushed year round already. This won’t have a material effect on the ram populations health.

[jednastka]

All issues raised here are separate questions. This is what I have been told:

1. I believe the AFGA is no longer involved in any MSL tags (auction or raffle) over these issues. Visit them at the Edmonton Sportsman show to get the scoop.
2. All MSL tags are now 365 days per year for all species, not just bighorn.
3. All of Alberta is apparently open to the hunt, not just WMUs where there is a season.
4. The hunter can use any legal weapon of their choice, i.e., rifle during bow season.
5. The MSL winner is now not the only one who can use the MSL tag. All MSL tags are now "transferable" to someone else, but cannot be "officially" sold.
6. The old restrictive controls on where and how the money is distributed are no longer in place. The organization(s) running the auctions or the raffles decide how the money is spent. No public and transparent process or accountability.
7. I am not aware of anyone selling MSL raffle tickets this year, but the old AFGA restrictions to prevent "certain individuals" from buying all the raffle tickets on one species seconds after tickets go on sale are now off. So much for putting Alberta sportsman first.

To those complaining about the AFGA spending on sheep: they were required to put 85% of funds raised back into each species through a public, transparent process where formal submissions for funds were made to a panel of experts (not AFGA only) that evaluated them all. IF all the available qualified proposals were approved, and there was money left from what was collected for that species, then it was added to the general MSL fund for that year. Why, because money cannot be carried over year to year. There were never enough qualified bighorn sheep projects to spend all the funds raised by sheep.


The questions on the changes to MSL tag usage is only a personal ethical choice, as defined by Aldo Leopold so many years ago, and set out in the North American Model for Wildlife Conservation.


I personally believe it is unethical to hunt any game when they are under the great stress of trying to survive winter.


Vic

[Huntingjunkie]

https://www.apos.ab.ca/Community/Min...pecialLicences

Here are rules that have been released

No transferring licenses
No hunting wherever you want. There still needs to be a season
Nothing about being able to use a rifle during archery season or zone

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Huntingjunkie

https://www.apos.ab.ca/Community/Min...pecialLicences

Here are rules that have been released

No transferring licenses
No hunting wherever you want. There still needs to be a season
Nothing about being able to use a rifle during archery season or zone

So the sky isn't falling?

[LJalberta]

Originally Posted by Huntingjunkie

https://www.apos.ab.ca/Community/Min...pecialLicences

Here are rules that have been released

No transferring licenses
No hunting wherever you want. There still needs to be a season
Nothing about being able to use a rifle during archery season or zone

Makes me wonder where some people get their information from.

[reddeerhunter]

Originally Posted by CNP

Meh...

Too many issues of much greater significance to be concerned about. This shouldn't even make it in the top 100 things we should be concerned about.

Great post. Agree.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by WinefredCommander

It’s pretty greasy. MSP sheep tag holders tired of competing with Joe Public. Shoot ‘em right out of the ditch in March. Too bad their hides looks like ****. Going to be paying landholders outside of the NPs where the sit all winter.

And don’t forget they can shoot a 4/5 curl ram in the full curl zones.

[Dewey Cox]

I heard you can shoot from a helicopter.

[Huntingjunkie]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

And don’t forget they can shoot a 4/5 curl ram in the full curl zones.

To be honest, it doesn’t say a size restriction at all. I think you’re looking at it wrong. Say the hunter goes to 400 and finds a band with 3 rams.

A 8 year old that is legal full curl 165 class ram, 15” bases
A 10 year old that is just barely broomed short, has 16” bases, 175 class ram
And a 12 year old ram that is barely 4/5’s has 17” bases and 175 class

Which ram would you hope for the msl tag holder to shoot?
If it was me I wouldn’t want him to shoot that 8 year old just because he makes full curl. Id want him to shoot that 12 year old that might not make the winter, and that I’ll never be able to harvest.
Last year one of the msl rams that was shot had only 1 horn

[cody j]

The Arizona big game super raffle offers tags for 10 different species, winner gets to hunt 365 days. It seems to be pretty popular

[Big Grey Wolf]

Just need to follow the money$$. The going rate for a guided Alberta Big Horn hunt is now near $50,000 per recent article in AO magazine last month. I would guess it would be wasteful to allow local Albertan to harvest a sheep for only $50 tag.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Just need to follow the money$$. The going rate for a guided Alberta Big Horn hunt is now near $50,000 per recent article in AO magazine last month. I would guess it would be wasteful to allow local Albertan to harvest a sheep for only $50 tag.

Could be that I'm tired, but this makes no sense. Follow what money?
The 365 day thing brought in a lot more money at auction

[KyleSS]

Originally Posted by LJalberta

Makes me wonder where some people get their information from.

The ministers speech at the National Wild Sheep Foundation banquet just moments prior to the tag going up for auction.....