Indigenous Nuisance grizzly management in Alberta

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

Some of these bears wear satellite transponders.

Grizz

Yup, that definitely something to take into consideration if one is tempted to dispatch a problem bear... They would know pretty quickly where the mortality signal originated. And then the hurt comes down.

[cody j]

I can’t confirm this but I was talking to an outfitter from northern BC last week, he told me that some bands in that province are paying a bounty for grizzly bears.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

You don’t understand. Fish and Wildlife use them as a tool to control bear populations. So why would they advocate a season? It’s just one less group to have as an ally in the return of a season.

That might make up a very small portion of your opposition at best

I doubt the main players are still the same in Alberta as they are in BC when it comes to grizzly

Half asleep on nightshift and no interest in arguing so I will leave it there

[TheIceTitan]

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showp...9&postcount=39

[270person]

Originally Posted by TheIceTitan

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showp...9&postcount=39

39 out of 1400 in Ab now. Hmmm.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by TheIceTitan

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showp...9&postcount=39

Why didn't you just copy and paste?

"So, the first and most important question is, how many grizzly bears are being killed by Treaty Indians?"


From your post information, very few.

In reality, many more than that, as Treaty hunters rarely follow Alberta's request that they register these kills.
And still not enough to inhibit the surprising fast population growth of these bears.

[Puma]

How bout we just manage Grizzly bears like the rest of our game?

Population counts (real ones) in WMU and a draw hunt based on a sustainable population.

We have all seen how a political will stopped the hunt, and we also see the result of that.

I have never seen so many Grizzly bears as I have in the last 7 years along the Eastern slopes. Its getting to the point were we see them on more trips than not.

[outofbounds]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Why didn't you just copy and paste?

"So, the first and most important question is, how many grizzly bears are being killed by Treaty Indians?"


From your post information, very few.

In reality, many more than that, as Treaty hunters rarely follow Alberta's request that they register these kills.
And still not enough to inhibit the surprising fast population growth of these bears.

Can Alberta provide how many producers, province wide SSS? Or, are possibly taken in contrary? Including Grizzly and Cougar?

Can we tally that for numbers in the evaluation?
How many meet their waterloo via MVA by year/season and WMU?

Or in comparison, how many are harvested under Treaty numbers? By WMU? Or province wide? What is the figure used?
Highly doubt it?

Yet always one or the other is pending required sway, required per conversations at hand.

Mortality is mortality period, no different than what neighboring states such as Montana are currently experiencing with their legislation for reinstatement or consideration if figures allow for state control of resources versus Federal. Hunters and producers need to understand the relationship as a whole as it is an all in figure period, no matter jurisdiction.

The suggested topic of reliance of FN engagement support to satisfy regional or local pressure based on identified concerns or support by local Indigenous nations recognized by F&W or provincial means is the same as those that cry foul to land owners seeking the same outside support to manage ungulate populations by means of provincial lotteries.
Many are quick to spark the fire to burn the stake if not in line with their belief or interest of harvest outside of lotteries, yet fall on the source if imminent support for their survival without retribution as fitting to case. Should the skul plate of the bruins be seperated in the same fashion suggested as elk, moose, deer, sheep or speed goats to satisfy Alberta sportsman?
Should the quarry be of similar trophy consideration, or is the identification of predation from producers be considered enough versus known provincial population control or cull measures?

Curios, as requests come in daily for support and assistance with control of varmints, predators, ungulates and crop production in competition for feed and livestock production based on current carrying capacity of regional and provincial mangement measures.
For or against, is it based on who and when required, only those directly impacted or when fitting throughout the province?
Can those claiming required assistance identify acknowledging provincial hunter/trapper support backed by alocation of permission and access to supporting means of management.

Constant merry go- round, will it end, certainly not without all those impacted in alignment... rights based solicited or not...

[outofbounds]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Why didn't you just copy and paste?

"So, the first and most important question is, how many grizzly bears are being killed by Treaty Indians?"


From your post information, very few.

In reality, many more than that, as Treaty hunters rarely follow Alberta's request that they register these kills.
And still not enough to inhibit the surprising fast population growth of these bears.

Can Alberta provide how many producers, province wide SSS? Or, are possibly taken in contrary? Including Grizzly and Cougar?

Can we tally that for numbers in the evaluation?
How many meet their waterloo via MVA by year/season and WMU?

Or in comparison, how many are harvested under Treaty numbers? By WMU? Or province wide? What is the figure used?
Highly doubt it?

Yet always one or the other is pending required sway, required per conversations at hand.

Mortality is mortality period, no different than what neighboring states such as Montana are currently experiencing with their legislation for reinstatement or consideration if figures allow for state control of resources versus Federal. Hunters and producers need to understand the relationship as a whole as it is an all in figure period, no matter jurisdiction.

The suggested topic of reliance of FN engagement support to satisfy regional or local pressure based on identified concerns or support by local Indigenous nations recognized by F&W or provincial means is the same as those that cry foul to land owners seeking the same outside support to manage ungulate populations by means of provincial lotteries.
Many are quick to spark the fire to burn the stake if not in line with their belief or interest of harvest outside of lotteries, yet fall on the source if imminent support for their survival without retribution as fitting to case. Should the skul plate of the bruins be seperated in the same fashion suggested as elk, moose, deer, sheep or speed goats to satisfy Alberta sportsman? Should the quarry be of similar trophy consideration, or is the identification of predation from producers be enough versus known provincial population control or cull measures?

Curious, as requests come in daily for support and asistance with regard to the control of varmints, predators, ungulates and crop production in competition for crop and livestock production based on current carrying capacity of regional and provincial mangement measures.
For or against, is it based on who and when required?
Is it only those directly impacted or when fitting throughout the province?

Can those claiming required assistance identify acknowlement of provincial hunter/trapper support backed by alocation of permission and access to support?

Constant merry go- round, will it end, certainly not without all parties in alignment... common goal or milestones of measurable management initiatives.

[cowmanbob]

[QUOTE=outofbounds;4620659]Can Alberta provide how many producers, province wide SSS?

How could anyone know this?

[Pathfinder76]

This thread reminds me of a story my dad tells. When he was a kid the local uniformed “expert” came to town to have a town hall on grizzlies. In the presentation this expert let the audience know what the local and surrounding grizzly bear population was. The gentleman sitting next to my father then leaned over to my dad and said: “well that’s too bad. If that’s his number I killed every one of them this spring”.

[walking buffalo]

I'm reminded of a few years ago, 2012ish, when SRD was heavy into a producing an accurate grizz count in several Bear management unit. The bear bios were concerned that the Ab gov was close to reopening a hunt if the numbers were sufficient.

When the count for an area that included several Indian Reserves was be tallied, the number came to less than the PROBLEM bears I knew of in just ONE Reserve. When I talked to the head bio for this area, he refused to acknowledge that there were ANY bears there, and that if there were, he was not interested. He did NOT want to have more Officially recognized bears in his area.


------

MooseRiverTrapper,

Have you thought it through what I said about how it would be an insult to offer incentives to influence Natives to kill problem bears?

What do you think about that?

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I'm reminded of a few years ago, 2012ish, when SRD was heavy into a producing an accurate grizz count in several Bear management unit. The bear bios were concerned that the Ab gov was close to reopening a hunt if the numbers were sufficient.

When the count for an area that included several Indian Reserves was be tallied, the number came to less than the PROBLEM bears I knew of in just ONE Reserve. When I talked to the head bio for this area, he refused to acknowledge that there were ANY bears there, and that if there were, he was not interested. He did NOT want to have more Officially recognized bears in his area.


------

MooseRiverTrapper,

Have you thought it through what I said about how it would be an insult to offer incentives to influence Natives to kill problem bears?

What do you think about that?

Someone is always insulted about something.

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

Someone is always insulted about something.

Like feral Horses, it's all about someone's agenda.

Grizz

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

Someone is always insulted about something.

Don't sulk. It wasn't that hard of a question.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Don't sulk. It wasn't that hard of a question.

Have I thought that it would be insulting to some to offer incentive? Like I said someone is always going to be insulted. Please explain what your insinuating.

[buckman]

I have no research or proof of this,however I suspect more Grizz get shot now that when we had a legal hunt.

How many hunters on here have encountered one in the back-country (or closer in). If you felt threatened what would your reaction be?

[Pekan]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that gun ownership/hunting participation among FN communities is a lower percent than the greater population by percentage. Just talk to a gun counter guy near a reserve.

[Pekan]

Originally Posted by Pekan

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that gun ownership/hunting participation among FN communities is a lower percent than the greater population by percentage. Just talk to a gun counter guy near a reserve.

But if a guy were having a problem with moose......haha.

[Pekan]

Wait until they start taking up residence in Fish Creek park and start eating dogs. Then we'll get a season back.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Pekan

Wait until they start taking up residence in Fish Creek park and start eating dogs. Then we'll get a season back.

Wont be long,they are knocking on the door in the west part,
along Fish Creek already.

[roper1]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

This thread reminds me of a story my dad tells. When he was a kid the local uniformed “expert” came to town to have a town hall on grizzlies. In the presentation this expert let the audience know what the local and surrounding grizzly bear population was. The gentleman sitting next to my father then leaned over to my dad and said: “well that’s too bad. If that’s his number I killed every one of them this spring”.

Awesome story. I bet I can guess the identity of that local griz expert, self-proclaimed to boot.

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by Pekan

Wait until they start taking up residence in Fish Creek park and start eating dogs. Then we'll get a season back.

Nephew lives in Oakridge, just off Glenmore Reservoir, they had a sow and a couple of cubs just down their street.

Grizz

[3blade]

Originally Posted by Pekan

Wait until they start taking up residence in Fish Creek park and start eating dogs. Then we'll get a season back.

Want to bet?

It’ll go the same way as commiefornias lion issue. Shannon/knothead/KVT/Y2Y will set off a firestorm like you’ve never seen, and the wildrose party doesn’t have the balls to do anything conservative. They’d all rather pay f&w to shoot them.

[SageValleyOutdoors]

I’ll chime in on this one from two angles:

First, we had a fish and wildlife officer check licenses and tags at our spring bear camp near swan hills a few years ago. We got to BS-Ing with him a little bit, and it turns out he is/was one of the carnivore specialist officers, and spends a lot of his time investigating nuisance bears, wolves and cougars. I asked him about a grizzly hunt, and the likelihood that it would be coming back.
His answer: 0% chance. Ever.
When i asked his reasoning for it, he said that he, as well as his officer colleagues as well as provincial biologists make recommendations, but ultimately, decisions like this come down to politics. We all know there are strong lobbyists that advocate against a hunt for the cuddly, cute grizzly bear, but take it a step further. Look at it from the politicians view: the MOST LIKELY provincial party who would reinstate a grizzly hunt would be the conservatives. Who do most hunters already vote for? The conservatives… so there’s no votes to be gained by bringing a grizzly hunt back. Anyone who wants a grizzly hunt already votes for them.
On the flip side, if there are “soft” conservatives who oppose socialist policies, but who are also swayed by the anti-hunting lobbyists, if a conservative government brings back the hunt, they might be convinced to vote NDP in order to avoid having that happen.
So from a conservative politician’s perspective, there is ZERO incentive to bring back the hunt - but potentially a lot of political harm in bringing it back.

This is how that one conservation officer explained it to me, and it made a lot of sense.

Now, for the original topic of the thread - indigenous hunters harvesting grizzly bears - i don’t know how often it happens, but it DOES happen… i know first hand, as i have a grizzly hide hanging in my house from the swan hills area that i took a few years ago. It’s been registered, of course, and i kept all the meat. I’ll be completely honest here - that early spring, grass fed grizzly was one of the best tasting meats i have ever had. We made plenty of amazing stews off that bear, and i don’t regret the harvest in the least. I figure for every bear harvested by an indigenous hunter, that’s hopefully one more moose that doesn’t get harvested. I talk to others in the community and try to get them to leave the damn moose alone. They get hammered year round, and it’s getting difficult to find good moose populations these days. Shoot a bear = save a moose.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by SageValleyOutdoors

I’ll chime in on this one from two angles:

First, we had a fish and wildlife officer check licenses and tags at our spring bear camp near swan hills a few years ago. We got to BS-Ing with him a little bit, and it turns out he is/was one of the carnivore specialist officers, and spends a lot of his time investigating nuisance bears, wolves and cougars. I asked him about a grizzly hunt, and the likelihood that it would be coming back.
His answer: 0% chance. Ever.
When i asked his reasoning for it, he said that he, as well as his officer colleagues as well as provincial biologists make recommendations, but ultimately, decisions like this come down to politics. We all know there are strong lobbyists that advocate against a hunt for the cuddly, cute grizzly bear, but take it a step further. Look at it from the politicians view: the MOST LIKELY provincial party who would reinstate a grizzly hunt would be the conservatives. Who do most hunters already vote for? The conservatives… so there’s no votes to be gained by bringing a grizzly hunt back. Anyone who wants a grizzly hunt already votes for them.
On the flip side, if there are “soft” conservatives who oppose socialist policies, but who are also swayed by the anti-hunting lobbyists, if a conservative government brings back the hunt, they might be convinced to vote NDP in order to avoid having that happen.
So from a conservative politician’s perspective, there is ZERO incentive to bring back the hunt - but potentially a lot of political harm in bringing it back.

This is how that one conservation officer explained it to me, and it made a lot of sense.

Now, for the original topic of the thread - indigenous hunters harvesting grizzly bears - i don’t know how often it happens, but it DOES happen… i know first hand, as i have a grizzly hide hanging in my house from the swan hills area that i took a few years ago. It’s been registered, of course, and i kept all the meat. I’ll be completely honest here - that early spring, grass fed grizzly was one of the best tasting meats i have ever had. We made plenty of amazing stews off that bear, and i don’t regret the harvest in the least. I figure for every bear harvested by an indigenous hunter, that’s hopefully one more moose that doesn’t get harvested. I talk to others in the community and try to get them to leave the damn moose alone. They get hammered year round, and it’s getting difficult to find good moose populations these days. Shoot a bear = save a moose.

This is worth taking note of ^^^

[TheIceTitan]

Originally Posted by 270person

39 out of 1400 in Ab now. Hmmm.

39 was known kills only for the Bow River watershed for the study period.

[Dubious]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

This is worth taking note of ^^^

What part? The part where fish and game officers make up policy for the government or where political party’s don’t do thing for their base because they don’t gain votes if they pander to their base they lose votes.

Do you think maybe they haven’t put back in a grizzly hunt yet because they are working on the management plan for the species right now?

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by Dubious

What part? The part where fish and game officers make up policy for the government or where political party’s don’t do thing for their base because they don’t gain votes if they pander to their base they lose votes.

Do you think maybe they haven’t put back in a grizzly hunt yet because they are working on the management plan for the species right now?

They've been putting that little fable out for years now. There was a target population number on the books originally , that was surpassed long ago. No different that wolves in the US, it's a politics issue, but they want to keep our hopes up.

Grizz

[reddeerhunter]

We need Trudeau and fam to go camping in tent in the Kakwa and boil maple syrup.
Truly enjoy AB outback.


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