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  #31  
Old 01-04-2016, 09:01 PM
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My beef with current laws about antlered or antler less and then keeping evidence of sex? If the animal has evidence of male junk, isn't that immediately a buck?? Why the grey area?? Or am I missing some grey matter in my head?? Discuss
  #32  
Old 01-04-2016, 09:07 PM
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My beef with current laws about antlered or antler less and then keeping evidence of sex? If the animal has evidence of male junk, isn't that immediately a buck?? Why the grey area?? Or am I missing some grey matter in my head?? Discuss
Not all bucks have antlers, and the classifications are antlered or antlerless, not buck or doe.
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Old 01-04-2016, 09:12 PM
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My beef with current laws about antlered or antler less and then keeping evidence of sex? If the animal has evidence of male junk, isn't that immediately a buck?? Why the grey area?? Or am I missing some grey matter in my head?? Discuss
A few years back I shot a what I thought was a large MD Doe and it had male junk. Where the antlers should have been were two round knobs just up out of the hair and about 2 inches across. I did not have a MD Buck tag and called F&W. What I had shot was a buck with a bad case of mange. Had to leave the evidence of sex on and keep the head separate from the carcass. Nasty clean up -- very careful skin job with gloves on.
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Old 01-04-2016, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by waterninja View Post
So, as promised I am putting forth some suggestions for changes that I would like to see happen with our regs. This time I will not try to defend my suggestion or argue my position. In my mind this suggestion has merit. This is how it works in BC, but that does not mean that I think all of BC regs. are better then ours or that I will move to BC if none of my suggestions are implemented. Actually I'm kind of hopeing that someone at F&W or AEP that I am sure read the threads here on AO might pass my suggestions along to those who make policies and or reg. changes. Anyways......
..4.. Regulation on whether a Deer is Antlered or Antlerless. Right now if you are trying to harvest an Antlerless deer and you shoot one that has one antler 2" long and one a little longer then 4", you have committed a crime. I think this is backwards. In BC (yeh I know, flame away) and probably other places if ONE antler is less then the legal length then it is considered Antlerless. So, if you are glassing that deer and see no antlers, or just a small nub and shoot it thinking you have shot an Antlerless deer and then walk up and see that on the side that was facing away from you it has a 4 1/2" antler then here in AB you can be in big trouble. You can argue that the hunter was irresponsible by not waiting to glass or scope both sides, or he shouldn't have shot at all, but in the field a lot of times you have an animal standing broadside to you and have to make a decision based on what you can see. Just seems to make more sense if the reg. was written the other way around. Much less chance of error, and I doubt it would hurt the spikers out there.
Here is a pic of a Whitetail "buck" that a hunter shot thinking it was Antlerless. The small (and legal) 3" antler was hiding behind the ear that was broadside to hunter, and that 5" antler was sticking straight out away from hunter and could not be seen. Legally, in AB this was an Antlered deer.
Feedback welcome on this reg suggestion but I will not type another word on this thread. Flame away guys.
P.S. I'll leave it to the ussual suspects to speculate what tag was put on this animal.

In BC to be considered antlerless a deer needs to be less than one year old and have no visible antlers of any length. A deer is considered antlered in BC if it has anything more than a nub with hair still on it in the way of antlers.
  #35  
Old 01-04-2016, 10:17 PM
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So a mature buck with one antler broke off at the base would be legal on an anterless tag...........makes no sense......from a game management perspective....know what your shooting at before you pull the trigger.
Only if the other antler was under 4", otherwise it is an antlered deer!
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Old 01-04-2016, 10:27 PM
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Exactly as per below. IMHO Waterninja, is misinterpreting the BC regs.

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Originally Posted by Positrac View Post
In BC to be considered antlerless a deer needs to be less than one year old and have no visible antlers of any length. A deer is considered antlered in BC if it has anything more than a nub with hair still on it in the way of antlers.
Here are the definitions...from the BC regs.

antlered animal - means a member of the deer family over one year of age bearing visible bony antlers.

antlerless animal - means a member of the deer family bearing no visible antlers.The small skin or hair covered protuberances of male fawns and calves do not constitute antlers.

So if I read this, and what Waterninja is "interpreting"

....basically he is saying if you don't see an antler whether it is normally visible or not you can shoot it as "antlerless". For example a one antlered deer with a 75 inch side and a busted off other side you DID NOT see the antlered side.

....or if you see any antler it is antlered. For example a one antlered deer with a 75 inch side and a busted off other side you DID see the antlered side.

So he is saying depending on what way you see the animal you could potentially put either tag on it....can you see an issue here?

I don't believe that is the intent nor the correct interpretation of the law.

But he is the "regulation expert" so I will let him explain.

LC
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  #37  
Old 01-04-2016, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Not all bucks have antlers, and the classifications are antlered or antlerless, not buck or doe.
Thank you
  #38  
Old 01-05-2016, 10:21 AM
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Have a look at the op posted pic...... The "long" antler would be pretty tough to see in the field. I think that has everything to do with this post.
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Old 01-05-2016, 10:51 AM
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Have a look at the op posted pic...... The "long" antler would be pretty tough to see in the field. I think that has everything to do with this post.
If I was looking to fill an antlerless tag, I would take my time examining the deer with my binoculars to make sure that it was antlerless before pulling the trigger. If I saw any antler at all, I would not shoot. I am not going to even bother trying to tell 3" antlers from 4" antlers, it just isn't worth the risk.
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Old 01-05-2016, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Exactly as per below. IMHO Waterninja, is misinterpreting the BC regs.



Here are the definitions...from the BC regs.

antlered animal - means a member of the deer family over one year of age bearing visible bony antlers.

antlerless animal - means a member of the deer family bearing no visible antlers.The small skin or hair covered protuberances of male fawns and calves do not constitute antlers.

So if I read this, and what Waterninja is "interpreting"

....basically he is saying if you don't see an antler whether it is normally visible or not you can shoot it as "antlerless". For example a one antlered deer with a 75 inch side and a busted off other side you DID NOT see the antlered side.

....or if you see any antler it is antlered. For example a one antlered deer with a 75 inch side and a busted off other side you DID see the antlered side.

So he is saying depending on what way you see the animal you could potentially put either tag on it....can you see an issue here?

I don't believe that is the intent nor the correct interpretation of the law.

But he is the "regulation expert" so I will let him explain.

LC
Ahhhhhhhhh Lefty. I can always count on you to twist someones words around so you can come off as being superior. Obviously you have missed the intent of what I am trying to say or more likely just being your ussual condenscending self. I'ts not the length of the antler in BC vs AB, but the wording of the regulation in BC vs AB. To put it even more simply for you, in AB you have to be certain BOTH antlers are legal and in BC you only have to be certain of ONE.
To make it even still easier for you to understand my point why don't we try a picture? We will use the pic I posted at the start of this thread. The hunter shot that deer thinking he was harvesting a Supplemental Antlerrless Whitetail. He could not see the small 3" horn hiding behind the ear that was broadside to him. He also could not see that mutant 5" horn sticking straight out to the side on far side of the deer. The deer looked just like an Antlerless should. After knocking deer down and walking up to it hunter realized that deer had small antlers. Even worse that mutant antler was 5" long, making it an Antlered deer.
This is where the reg. wording comes in. 1 The wording of AB's regs make this an Antlered deer. 2 The wording of BC's regs would make it an Antlerless deer. So in 1 the hunter has now committed a crime even if it was an honest mistake and in 2 the hunter has made a legal harvest because after carefull observation he knew that the side of the head he could see was legal.
Keep in mind that this is not some legal document or school report that is being handed in to be graded ( except by Lefty of course), so I have given the coles notes recap of what I consider to be a flaw in the way the regs in AB are now.
Bottom line, it just seems less complicated if a hunter only has to be sure that one side of the head or one antler is legal instead of both sides, and leaves less room for error.

p.s. I had to explode lefties brain with this last observation but by a twist of fate using BC's wording of the regs, the deer in the picture could be considered both Antlered and Antlerless. Poor guy might still be out there in the field trying to figure out what to do.
  #41  
Old 01-05-2016, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by waterninja View Post
So, as promised I am putting forth some suggestions for changes that I would like to see happen with our regs. This time I will not try to defend my suggestion or argue my position. In my mind this suggestion has merit. This is how it works in BC, but that does not mean that I think all of BC regs. are better then ours or that I will move to BC if none of my suggestions are implemented. Actually I'm kind of hopeing that someone at F&W or AEP that I am sure read the threads here on AO might pass my suggestions along to those who make policies and or reg. changes. Anyways......
..4.. Regulation on whether a Deer is Antlered or Antlerless. Right now if you are trying to harvest an Antlerless deer and you shoot one that has one antler 2" long and one a little longer then 4", you have committed a crime. I think this is backwards. In BC (yeh I know, flame away) and probably other places if ONE antler is less then the legal length then it is considered Antlerless. So, if you are glassing that deer and see no antlers, or just a small nub and shoot it thinking you have shot an Antlerless deer and then walk up and see that on the side that was facing away from you it has a 4 1/2" antler then here in AB you can be in big trouble. You can argue that the hunter was irresponsible by not waiting to glass or scope both sides, or he shouldn't have shot at all, but in the field a lot of times you have an animal standing broadside to you and have to make a decision based on what you can see. Just seems to make more sense if the reg. was written the other way around. Much less chance of error, and I doubt it would hurt the spikers out there.
Here is a pic of a Whitetail "buck" that a hunter shot thinking it was Antlerless. The small (and legal) 3" antler was hiding behind the ear that was broadside to hunter, and that 5" antler was sticking straight out away from hunter and could not be seen. Legally, in AB this was an Antlered deer.
Feedback welcome on this reg suggestion but I will not type another word on this thread. Flame away guys.
P.S. I'll leave it to the ussual suspects to speculate what tag was put on this animal.
In BC for identification of members of the deer family , Any deer having VISIBLE BONEY ANTLERS IS NOT CONSIDERED ANTLERLESS,
NO matter what form or length of the boney antler mass , or how deformed or un uniform in comparison,

If it has visible BONE ! It IS antlered !
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  #42  
Old 01-05-2016, 11:07 AM
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Ahhhhhhhhh Lefty. I can always count on you to twist someones words around so you can come off as being superior. Obviously you have missed the intent of what I am trying to say or more likely just being your ussual condenscending self. I'ts not the length of the antler in BC vs AB, but the wording of the regulation in BC vs AB. To put it even more simply for you, in AB you have to be certain BOTH antlers are legal and in BC you only have to be certain of ONE.
To make it even still easier for you to understand my point why don't we try a picture? We will use the pic I posted at the start of this thread. The hunter shot that deer thinking he was harvesting a Supplemental Antlerrless Whitetail. He could not see the small 3" horn hiding behind the ear that was broadside to him. He also could not see that mutant 5" horn sticking straight out to the side on far side of the deer. The deer looked just like an Antlerless should. After knocking deer down and walking up to it hunter realized that deer had small antlers. Even worse that mutant antler was 5" long, making it an Antlered deer.
This is where the reg. wording comes in. 1 The wording of AB's regs make this an Antlered deer. 2 The wording of BC's regs would make it an Antlerless deer. So in 1 the hunter has now committed a crime even if it was an honest mistake and in 2 the hunter has made a legal harvest because after carefull observation he knew that the side of the head he could see was legal.
Keep in mind that this is not some legal document or school report that is being handed in to be graded ( except by Lefty of course), so I have given the coles notes recap of what I consider to be a flaw in the way the regs in AB are now.
Bottom line, it just seems less complicated if a hunter only has to be sure that one side of the head or one antler is legal instead of both sides, and leaves less room for error.

p.s. I had to explode lefties brain with this last observation but by a twist of fate using BC's wording of the regs, the deer in the picture could be considered both Antlered and Antlerless. Poor guy might still be out there in the field trying to figure out what to do.
I twisted nothing ninja...you said you could legally shoot a one antlered animal in BC and tag it with an antlerless tag...you cannot do that.

You are wrong again! In Alberta only one antler needs to be over 4 inches not both...you make up regs all the time dude. If I do a search on "regulation question" guess who makes more posts on that topic than anyone

If you are going to argue at least have your facts straight.

Why are you talking about yourself in the third person? You shot that antlered deer and tagged it incorrectly with an antlerless tag.

The deer in the picture in both BC and Alberta is antlered...end of story. Do you really not comprehend the wording? That's really sad and unfortunate if you cannot understand that.

Nothing you post here is so profound as to explode my brain...although your lack of understanding and comprehension is nearly mind blowing...stick to putting fish in your NSR nursery, hunting regs just aren't your thing.

The fact you want to argue about your misinterpretations is the best part of this whole discussion.

LC
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  #43  
Old 01-05-2016, 11:08 AM
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Ahhhhhhhhh Lefty. I can always count on you to twist someones words around so you can come off as being superior. Obviously you have missed the intent of what I am trying to say or more likely just being your ussual condenscending self. I'ts not the length of the antler in BC vs AB, but the wording of the regulation in BC vs AB. To put it even more simply for you, in AB you have to be certain BOTH antlers are legal and in BC you only have to be certain of ONE.
To make it even still easier for you to understand my point why don't we try a picture? We will use the pic I posted at the start of this thread. The hunter shot that deer thinking he was harvesting a Supplemental Antlerrless Whitetail. He could not see the small 3" horn hiding behind the ear that was broadside to him. He also could not see that mutant 5" horn sticking straight out to the side on far side of the deer. The deer looked just like an Antlerless should. After knocking deer down and walking up to it hunter realized that deer had small antlers. Even worse that mutant antler was 5" long, making it an Antlered deer.
This is where the reg. wording comes in. 1 The wording of AB's regs make this an Antlered deer. 2 The wording of BC's regs would make it an Antlerless deer. So in 1 the hunter has now committed a crime even if it was an honest mistake and in 2 the hunter has made a legal harvest because after carefull observation he knew that the side of the head he could see was legal.
Keep in mind that this is not some legal document or school report that is being handed in to be graded ( except by Lefty of course), so I have given the coles notes recap of what I consider to be a flaw in the way the regs in AB are now.
Bottom line, it just seems less complicated if a hunter only has to be sure that one side of the head or one antler is legal instead of both sides, and leaves less room for error.

p.s. I had to explode lefties brain with this last observation but by a twist of fate using BC's wording of the regs, the deer in the picture could be considered both Antlered and Antlerless. Poor guy might still be out there in the field trying to figure out what to do.
Earnest. The hunter should view the deer from multiple angles if it's even somewhat questionable. And ears move and flicker constantly. Don't just throw up the rifle and touch off on the trigger first chance.
  #44  
Old 01-05-2016, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by elkdump View Post
In BC for identification of members of the deer family , Any deer having VISIBLE BONEY ANTLERS IS NOT CONSIDERED ANTLERLESS,
NO matter what form or length of the boney antler mass , or how deformed or un uniform in comparison,

If it has visible BONE ! It IS antlered !
Exactly...Ninja do some more reading instead of writing nonsense.

You really think if you can't see horn before the shot yet see it after it makes it antlerless? Is this a joke? LOL.

LC
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Old 01-05-2016, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
I twisted nothing ninja...you said you could legally shoot a one antlered animal in BC and tag it with an antlerless tag...you cannot do that.

LC
Apparently he thinks he can ,,,, ,,,,,,
  #46  
Old 01-05-2016, 11:13 AM
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But awciffer.....I didn't see a horn therefore I chose for it not to have horns...
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Old 01-05-2016, 11:18 AM
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So this is an antlerless moose big fella?
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Old 01-05-2016, 11:20 AM
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So this is an antlerless moose big fella?
LOL exactly!!

Only in BC....or wait was it Alberta??? Actually in both places it's antlered.

LC
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Old 01-05-2016, 11:21 AM
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I think I'll use my supplemental to tag this one.....
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Old 01-05-2016, 11:22 AM
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LOL exactly!!

Only in BC....or wait was it Alberta??? Actually in both places it's antlered.

LC
It has less than TWO points on one side, so it must be an " imme " lmao
  #51  
Old 01-05-2016, 11:24 AM
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I twisted nothing ninja...you said you could legally shoot a one antlered animal in BC and tag it with an antlerless tag...you cannot do that.

You are wrong again! In Alberta only one antler needs to be over 4 inches not both...you make up regs all the time dude. If I do a search on "regulation question" guess who makes more posts on that topic than anyone

If you are going to argue at least have your facts straight.

Why are you talking about yourself in the third person? You shot that antlered deer and tagged it incorrectly with an antlerless tag.

The deer in the picture in both BC and Alberta is antlered...end of story. Do you really not comprehend the wording? That's really sad and unfortunate if you cannot understand that.

Nothing you post here is so profound as to explode my brain...although your lack of understanding and comprehension is nearly mind blowing...stick to putting fish in your NSR nursery, hunting regs just aren't your thing.

The fact you want to argue about your misinterpretations is the best part of this whole discussion.

LC
X100!!! WN, why do you worry about stuff that the vast majority of people don't seem to have a question, issue, or concern with? You come across as clueless, if that's what you are going for, nailed it! Cheers
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Old 01-05-2016, 11:33 AM
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Hey whatever guys. Your right, I made the reg. up and it doesen't exisist anywhere except my mind. Glad i'm at least giving you something to laugh about. Agree /disagree, don't matter to me, but it seems that some of you are missing your kindergarden class.
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Old 01-05-2016, 11:33 AM
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X100!!! WN, why do you worry about stuff that the vast majority of people don't seem to have a question, issue, or concern with? You come across as clueless, if that's what you are going for, nailed it! Cheers
x1000 And anyone that corrects him is the one with the issue.
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Old 01-05-2016, 11:36 AM
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Hey whatever guys. Your right, I made the reg. up and it doesen't exisist anywhere except my mind. Glad i'm at least giving you something to laugh about. Agree /disagree, don't matter to me, but it seems that some of you are missing your kindergarden class.

Dude. Your wrong. Sack up and admit it.
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  #55  
Old 01-05-2016, 11:38 AM
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Hey whatever guys. Your right, I made the reg. up and it doesen't exisist anywhere except my mind. Glad i'm at least giving you something to laugh about. Agree /disagree, don't matter to me, but it seems that some of you are missing your kindergarden class.
You can toss out insults all you want Ninja, or you could sit back and listen and learn that you are incorrect.

You didn't make up the reg, but you did misinterpret it and do not understand what it is getting at.

LC
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Old 01-05-2016, 11:44 AM
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x1000 And anyone that corrects him is the one with the issue.
I guess he isn't asking this time....he is telling

LC
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Old 01-05-2016, 11:46 AM
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LOL exactly!!

Only in BC....or wait was it Alberta??? Actually in both places it's antlered.

LC
Half Antlered??
Looks like you could put an anterless tag on it - with a good swift kick after it was down!
Cat
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Old 01-05-2016, 11:51 AM
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Half Antlered??
Looks like you could put an anterless tag on it - with a good swift kick after it was down!
Cat

Wouldn't that be interesting if you had an antlered tag, and the other antler fell off as it hit the ground.
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Old 01-05-2016, 11:52 AM
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Wouldn't that be interesting if you had an antlered tag, and the other antler fell off as it hit the ground.
I'd be draggin that antler back with me as well, that is for sure!
Even a sudden jerk from him if he got shot may send that one flying, the other one doesn't look like it was gone long!
Cat
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  #60  
Old 01-05-2016, 11:55 AM
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Half Antlered??
Looks like you could put an anterless tag on it - with a good swift kick after it was down!
Cat
There's an idea...I bet you could tear each tag in half and put both halves on the deer?

Then your next deer can only have one antler too!

Trust Ninja....he read it in the regs

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Last edited by Lefty-Canuck; 01-05-2016 at 12:01 PM.
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