Quality Trout Fisheries in Alberta

[Doc]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Get yer butt out of the city to a lake that that has bigger fish in it. What are you going to stock when you get tired of catching a bazillion big trout all day.....frickin killer whales?

Tired of catching big fish? Dave, you smokin' something?

Killer whales eh? hmmmmm......

Sorry Dave, don't have the time to head out of town on the week nights. But I do get up to D&%#@(g now and them. It is a good fishery and there are some big fish in their Dave but It used to be a great fishery with trout up to 30 inches. Not a fishery I'd want to turn into a quality lake, it don't need it... yet.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Tosh

so none will be self sustaining? this is just for bigger stockers every year?

Trout will live on average five to six years, some longer. The idea is to have the longer living trout reach trophy size with most getting up to 50cm (20 inches). You will alway have different sizes of trout however from new stockers each year.

Originally Posted by Tosh

sun said lakes need fewer stocked fish to let a percent of others grow bigger, so i assume if you reduce the number of fish stocked at lake x then you need to dump them in lake y?

Doesn't really work like that. SRD will put their request in for X amount of trout from the different hatcheries to stock all stocked fisheries in the province and the hatcheries will delivery by truck the requested number and the approx size requested to those fisheries.

Originally Posted by Tosh

no ice fishing??? how do you tell a guy with ice fishing gear sorry buddy no fishing we are trying to save the bigguns for all the fly fishers in the summer? I fly fish and even I know that is a load of bull ****.If thats the way then completly close a body of water, dont pick favorites.

Whoa dude!
Who said quality lakes where going to be fly fishing only? Flies or lures on some of these lakes (SRD decides). We don't have any fly fishing only lakes in Alberta.

The reasoning behind no ice fishing is...
Pretty hard to stop guys from using bait when ice fishing. You'd have to have fish cops living at the lakes. Bait causes huge mortality as trout tend to take bait deep. No ice fishing also gives the trout a good rest over the winter and without the stress of being caught, what food that is consumed goes into growing the trout and keeping them healthy.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Doc bring your C & R buds up to Maligne Lake in June u will have a Blast .. u will catch lots of 20 inch plus Brookies and Rainbows and will have that chance of catching your big fish .. and if you want to eat one, enjoy they are the best eating trout in the Province .. just remember you are in a high mountain lake in June be prepared for the worst weather and you will be ok!! man always tries to change Mother Nature/The Great Spirit/God's work why is that ?

I used to fish there a lot with my father when i was younger. I know what that lake holds. You're very lucky to fish there on a regular basis.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Doc

Killer whales eh? hmmmmm......

Good one!

[gl2]

Originally Posted by Doc

Trout will live on average five to six years, some longer. The idea is to have the longer living trout reach trophy size with most getting up to 50cm (20 inches). You will alway have different sizes of trout however from new stockers each year.



Doesn't really work like that. SRD will put their request in for X amount of trout from the different hatcheries to stock all stocked fisheries in the province and the hatcheries will delivery by truck the requested number and the approx size requested to those fisheries.



Whoa dude!
Who said quality lakes where going to be fly fishing only? Flies or lures on some of these lakes (SRD decides). We don't have any fly fishing only lakes in Alberta.

The reasoning behind no ice fishing is...
Pretty hard to stop guys from using bait when ice fishing. You'd have to have fish cops living at the lakes. Bait causes huge mortality as trout tend to take bait deep. No ice fishing also gives the trout a good rest over the winter and without the stress of being caught, what food that is consumed goes into growing the trout and keeping them healthy.

so if the structure isnt there to spawn then all we are doing is making bigger fish that are easier to catch.....sorry but still sounds like ego stroking.

If the srd puts in a request for fewer fish then they spend less money stocking and thus should be able to afford to replace this lake with a put and take type lake?

mortality rates might be higher with bait but they exist in every type of fishing? why not stock accordingly to the projected mortality rate? make some lakes ice fish only then, give the fish a rest in the summer to get fat while the food is good.(equal for everybody)

if you make it c and r and a full bait ban do you expect the number of people (fly fishermen to fishermen) equal? seems to me to play favorites.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Tosh

so if the structure isnt there to spawn then all we are doing is making bigger fish that are easier to catch.....sorry but still sounds like ego stroking.

If the srd puts in a request for fewer fish then they spend less money stocking and thus should be able to afford to replace this lake with a put and take type lake?

mortality rates might be higher with bait but they exist in every type of fishing? why not stock accordingly to the projected mortality rate? make some lakes ice fish only then, give the fish a rest in the summer to get fat while the food is good.(equal for everybody)

if you make it c and r and a full bait ban do you expect the number of people (fly fishermen to fishermen) equal? seems to me to play favorites.

There will be more fish that are larger than the existing 300 stocked waters (where the trout can't spawn either btw) but as far as catching big fish, they will be no easier to catch. You'll just know they're in the lake giving you a better opportunity at catching one. What you have to realize is, just as there are those who enjoy taking a fish home and those who enjoy catching a ton of little ones, there are also those who don't enjoy taking fish home and those that are tired of catching a ton of little ones. These anglers also pay for a fishing license every year and also deserve to enjoy Alberta's fisheries as well.

Why would they want to replace the lake with a put and take lake? There are already 300 in the province now. We're after a quality fishery not another safeway.

For the best quality fishery, everything has to be taken into consideration when stocking, not just mortality. If you just up the stocking numbers without taking into account how much biomass is in the lake available to the trout, you just end of with another lake full of 40,000 little fish. There is also fishing pressure/retention, mortality due to wildlife, partial or full summer and winterkills, mortality due to parasites, poaching, etc...

If you want ice fishing only lakes go for it. I'm not against put and take lakes or special lakes so folks can take home their fill everyday, I just want some that are quality like we see in the Parkland regions of Manitoba.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Tosh

if you make it c and r and a full bait ban do you expect the number of people (fly fishermen to fishermen) equal? seems to me to play favorites.

1st, who said anything about C&R? Not a bad idea though.

hmmmm...

2nd, So now I and every other fly fisherman should be denied a quality experience at our fisheries because we choose to fish with a fly?

I don't recall saying that anyone should be denied a quality fishing experience because they fish with anything but. For that matter, I don't think anyone should be denied any kind of fishing experience unless they haven't purchased a sport fishing license.

[gl2]

Originally Posted by Doc

1st, who said anything about C&R? Not a bad idea though.

hmmmm...

2nd, So now I and every other fly fisherman should be denied a quality experience at our fisheries because we choose to fish with a fly?

I don't recall saying that anyone should be denied a quality fishing experience because they fish with anything but. For that matter, I don't think anyone should be denied any kind of fishing experience unless they haven't purchased a sport fishing license.

catch and release is the first option on this poll.....
and as for fly fishermen being denied thats is just crazy.
i am sorry you feel cheated on your fly fishing experience but i do my fair share of fly fishing and its spectacular down here in the south.
i am glad we agree that no group should be denied their rite to fish with a purchase of license.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Tosh

catch and release is the first option on this poll.....
and as for fly fishermen being denied thats is just crazy.
i am sorry you feel cheated on your fly fishing experience but i do my fair share of fly fishing and its spectacular down here in the south.
i am glad we agree that no group should be denied their rite to fish with a purchase of license.

Ya, the poll is asking what anglers would rather have. Everything I just went over with you is pretty close to reality, the way it is as it stands now. As far as C&R, I would be happy with 10 C&R lakes throughout the province but if SRD doesn't manage them with the very best of intentions then I'd rather not see them at all as it would just be a tease. I believe (and I may be mistaken) there are two C& R trout lakes now.

[gl2]

Originally Posted by Doc

There will be more fish that are larger than the existing 300 stocked waters (where the trout can't spawn either btw) but as far as catching big fish, they will be no easier to catch. You'll just know they're in the lake giving you a better opportunity at catching one. What you have to realize is, just as there are those who enjoy taking a fish home and those who enjoy catching a ton of little ones, there are also those who don't enjoy taking fish home and those that are tired of catching a ton of little ones. These anglers also pay for a fishing license every year and also deserve to enjoy Alberta's fisheries as well.

Why would they want to replace the lake with a put and take lake? There are already 300 in the province now. We're after a quality fishery not another safeway.

For the best quality fishery, everything has to be taken into consideration when stocking, not just mortality. If you just up the stocking numbers without taking into account how much biomass is in the lake available to the trout, you just end of with another lake full of 40,000 little fish. There is also fishing pressure/retention, mortality due to wildlife, partial or full summer and winterkills, mortality due to parasites, poaching, etc...

If you want ice fishing only lakes go for it. I'm not against put and take lakes or special lakes so folks can take home their fill everyday, I just want some that are quality like we see in the Parkland regions of Manitoba.

by increasing the number of bigger fish alone maks it easier....you have to see that. if you take the challang out of fishing you got what? i like catching big fish because i did the work and put in the time not cause the srd gave them to me, and believe me there are trout lakes with 20'' trout in alberta.

if they do this the lakes should be a good drive from major city centers, families and kids dont need to get up at 4 am to catch fish, grown men can and some of us do to have a shot at big fish.

i really dont want ice fishing only lakes, but i dont see why they shouldnt be allowed to fish your special water?

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Doc

Why would they want to replace the lake with a put and take lake? There are already 300 in the province now. We're after a quality fishery not another safeway.

Ask the fellas down at Police why they want to change that "quality" fishery to a put and take lake if you want an honest, first hand answer to that.

So, if it's not a "quality" fishery it's a Safeway. I can't see how someone catching their fish out of the tank at Bas Pro Shop is any better than someone that gets their fish at Safeway.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Tosh

by increasing the number of bigger fish alone maks it easier....you have to see that. if you take the challang out of fishing you got what? i like catching big fish because i did the work and put in the time not cause the srd gave them to me, and believe me there are trout lakes with 20'' trout in alberta.

if they do this the lakes should be a good drive from major city centers, families and kids dont need to get up at 4 am to catch fish, grown men can and some of us do to have a shot at big fish.

i really dont want ice fishing only lakes, but i dont see why they shouldnt be allowed to fish your special water?

Well see, it all depends on you definition of big. 20" to me is average. So yes, it does make it easier to catch average size fish. But remember when I wrote, there will be some that get bigger than 20"? There won't be a lot but they will be there and that's where the challenge comes in, catching those bad boys. Think of it along the lines of the Bow downstream of Calgary. You can catch lots in the average size of 18-22" and it's not uncommon to catch some 23-25" but there are trout up to 30" and those are the real challenge. Just makes it more fun to pull in the average size trout until you hook into a hog.

I disagree on where the lakes should be. I believe these lakes should be available to everyone and not just those that can afford (in either time or gas) to get to them. Muir is 30 mins from a million people and still has decent catch rates of average fish with a chance at a big one. No true trophies but still the most used trout lake in the Edmonton area.

[gl2]

Originally Posted by Doc

Well see, it all depends on you definition of big. 20" to me is average. So yes, it does make it easier to catch average size fish. But remember when I wrote, there will be some that get bigger than 20"? There won't be a lot but they will be there and that's where the challenge comes in, catching those bad boys. Think of it along the lines of the Bow downstream of Calgary. You can catch lots in the average size of 18-22" and it's not uncommon to catch some 23-25" but there are trout up to 30" and those are the real challenge. Just makes it more fun to pull in the average size trout until you hook into a hog.

I disagree on where the lakes should be. I believe these lakes should be available to everyone and not just those that can afford (in either time or gas) to get to them. Muir is 30 mins from a million people and still has decent catch rates of average fish with a chance at a big one. No true trophies but still the most used trout lake in the Edmonton area.

i never said 20'' is big to me either and i aplogize if i did but my argument was more about if you make these changes on lakes, make them far enough away from the local starbucks and we will see how many people come, and you disagree? when did fishing become a sport where you could get a pizza delivered to your tent? and fishing is expensive yes, but if this is gonna be a hand holding event just make a small pot hole in every community fot the people to lazy to leave and also help people with out the means. i dont fish edmonton but i bet if uwoke up at 4 am and were willing to drive a couple hours you would get your 30'', maybe even enjoy your fly fishing experience a little more.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Ask the fellas down at Police why they want to change that "quality" fishery to a put and take lake if you want an honest, first hand answer to that.

Because they want their meat back, pure and simple.

So, if it's not a "quality" fishery it's a Safeway. I can't see how someone catching their fish out of the tank at Bas Pro Shop is any better than someone that gets their fish at Safeway.

Not following the Bass Pro Shop thing but...

No I'm not saying that every lake that's not quality is a safeway, I'm saying we have to many put and take lakes that are a safeway. The Morinville Res's of this province. They stock the hell out it, the trout are stunted (a lot to due with the perch) and what pressure it does see is anglers that just want a meal. Is there any quality there? Cardiff is the same way, so is Chickackoo, Sauer and Eastpit. How many of these tiddler lakes do we need?

And before you on about catching big trout out of any of these lakes, we're talking now, not the way they used to be.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Doc

Ya, the poll is asking what anglers would rather have. Everything I just went over with you is pretty close to reality, the way it is as it stands now. As far as C&R, I would be happy with 10 C&R lakes throughout the province but if SRD doesn't manage them with the very best of intentions then I'd rather not see them at all as it would just be a tease. I believe (and I may be mistaken) there are two C& R trout lakes now.

Ya see, that's what I'm talking about! You guys want more but you don't even know what you already have! There are currently 28 stocked lakes that are either "quality" fisheries or C&R. There are 17 "quality" fisheries so you already have 11 C&R lakes. Give one back!

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Tosh

i never said 20'' is big to me either and i aplogize if i did but my argument was more about if you make these changes on lakes, make them far enough away from the local starbucks and we will see how many people come, and you disagree? when did fishing become a sport where you could get a pizza delivered to your tent? and fishing is expensive yes, but if this is gonna be a hand holding event just make a small pot hole in every community fot the people to lazy to leave and also help people with out the means. i dont fish edmonton but i bet if uwoke up at 4 am and were willing to drive a couple hours you would get your 30'', maybe even enjoy your fly fishing experience a little more.

I know the stillwaters around these parts pretty well and within two hours from Edmonton, a decent chance at 30"? Can't see it. Dave's favorite lake used to have the odd one. The Pits by Edson should soon (quality lakes), the closest would be Obed, then Maligne (very big lake would be hard to find) and then Swan which would be your best bet but add another 2 and 1/2 hours to that.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Ya see, that's what I'm talking about! You guys want more but you don't even know what you already have! There are currently 28 stocked lakes that are either "quality" fisheries or C&R. There are 17 "quality" fisheries so you already have 11 C&R lakes. Give one back!

From your own link...

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/ManagingPr...**ers-2010.pdf

There are two lakes with zero catch limits both in the rocky area. Struble and Ironside. As I said, two C&R lakes.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Doc

Dave's favorite lake used to have the odd one.

If you're talking about Peanut Lake, that's not my favourite lake. I only mentioned it because they stopped the trout stocking program and I figure that there will be a winter kill this year anyway. I've seen plenty of guys fish that lake and say that there were nothing but tiddlers as you call them in there. I heard them talking about some sort of "quality" fishery thing when they left all ticked off. That's fine with me...........hope to not see you here again.

I never heard of anyone ever catching a 30" trout out of there but there were plenty +/- 20" if you were willing to make the effort.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

If you're talking about Peanut Lake, that's not my favourite lake. I only mentioned it because they stopped the trout stocking program and I figure that there will be a winter kill this year anyway. I've seen plenty of guys fish that lake and say that there were nothing but tiddlers as you call them in there. I heard them talking about some sort of "quality" fishery thing when they left all ticked off. That's fine with me...........hope to not see you here again.

I never heard of anyone ever catching a 30" trout out of there but there were plenty +/- 20" if you were willing to make the effort.

No I'm not talking about Peanut. Peanut winterkills to often and has a ton of Perch in it. I grew up fishing that lake every third weekend, for some reason it was my dad's favorite for a long time. I never cared much for it, the fishing was always good but nothing overly special.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Doc

Tired of catching big fish? Dave, you smokin' something?

Killer whales eh? hmmmmm......

Sorry Dave, don't have the time to head out of town on the week nights. But I do get up to D&%#@(g now and them. It is a good fishery and there are some big fish in their Dave but It used to be a great fishery with trout up to 30 inches. Not a fishery I'd want to turn into a quality lake, it don't need it... yet.

I was talking about that lake.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Doc

There are two lakes with zero catch limits both in the rocky area. Struble and Ironside. As I said, two C&R lakes.

The link is no good and a little farther along that page I cut and pasted the names of the "quality" fisheries. I figured out how you only came up with 2 C&R lakes though............there are two C&R lakes that are also classed as "quality" fisheries, Struble and Ironside. What I stated in the post that you are referring to is that there are 17 "quality" lakes, including Struble and Ironside, PLUS 11 C&R lakes for a total of 28 "quality" or C&R lakes.

Enough for tonight!

[huntsfurfish]

You might as well get used to the idea of more quality and C&R lakes, because there will be more comin!

[Heron]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Please check with the studys done on lakes that produce Big Fish .. example Alberta Rainbow record Maligne lake suppose to be(could be Big lake lots of area) , some say 1st lake valley of five , study done on first lake ..most lakes have half a page of diff speices Plankton etc .. 1st lake has a page and three quarters(4 rainbows netted over 20lbs 1980 Parks Canada).. Bow river why so good has Calgary dump in treated sewer and plants .. added food source.. Diefenbaker lake has so much farming in area lots of runoff.. food for lake.. example Kootenay Lake plant(industry) shut down on lake.. losing big gerrard.. BC gov now seeding lake.. if a lake in growing season has so much food produced and it takes x amount for a fish to grow, most trout lakes in alberta will have a tough time getting a Rainbow past 6 to 7 lbs unless you change that ratio.. example some lakes have more food or you can add growth hormones to the food chain or u do like you are promoting where there will be 10 big fish in a given lake and they will stock 10 fish every 4 years

What do we loose by trying? I am not asking for a 6 or 7lb fish. I would be thrilled with more 3lb fish. We know the lakes are capable because a few do miss getting bonked and grow to decent size.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Doc

From your own link...

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/ManagingPr...**ers-2010.pdf

There are two lakes with zero catch limits both in the rocky area. Struble and Ironside. As I said, two C&R lakes.

Sorry, should have said two C&R lakes that are easily accessible. The high mountain lakes with C&R golden trout, or cutties are lakes I didn't take into consideration.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

You might as well get used to the idea of more quality and C&R lakes, because there will be more comin!

All that will be accomplished by changing put & take lakes into "quality" fisheries and C&R lakes is to turn a bunch of honest anglers into poachers.

But there are allot of worse things that could happen if you run around imposing your will on people that have fished their favourite lake for a couple of generations.

I used to fish a great little lake just outside Pembroke, ON where it wasn't uncommon for 3 of your 4 tip ups to go down at once. You could catch 10 to 15 pike on a Sunday afternoon in a few hours. The problem is, it was a stocked trout lake that was created to appease some anglers in the town of Pembroke that pushed for it's creation. One or more local fellas didn't like all of the traffic in their backyard so their solution was to dump a bunch of readily available pike into it. It didn't take long before that little lake was void of trout but on the upside, it was a great pike fishery.

The funniest part about it was that there were hundreds of stocked trout lakes in the area but you'd have to drive a bit farther to get to them. That lake is an excellent example of a few lazy anglers trying to make things easier for themselves at the expense of other people and their solution to the problem.

[Heron]

Originally Posted by Tosh

i never said 20'' is big to me either and i aplogize if i did but my argument was more about if you make these changes on lakes, make them far enough away from the local starbucks and we will see how many people come, and you disagree? when did fishing become a sport where you could get a pizza delivered to your tent? and fishing is expensive yes, but if this is gonna be a hand holding event just make a small pot hole in every community fot the people to lazy to leave and also help people with out the means. i dont fish edmonton but i bet if uwoke up at 4 am and were willing to drive a couple hours you would get your 30'', maybe even enjoy your fly fishing experience a little more.

Come on Tosh. Easy to say for a guy who lives where you do. The reality of living in the Edmonton area is the trout fishing sucks compared to what it could be. For me to get into decent trout fishing I have to spend the better part of my day driving and for other reasons other than being lazy like having a job, young children and gas prices this is not acceptable to me.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Heron

Come on Tosh. Easy to say for a guy who lives where you do. The reality of living in the Edmonton area is the trout fishing sucks compared to what it could be. For me to get into decent trout fishing I have to spend the better part of my day driving and for other reasons other than being lazy like having a job, young children and gas prices this is not acceptable to me.

Baloney!

[Heron]

I guess our definition of decent is different. Perhaps decent is the wrong word. How about quality? No, too vague. How about good or even excellent fishing? I read in a McLennan book once that catching 4lb fish all day would be a kind of hell. I agree but where it now is light years from that problem.

I know there are a few big fish in a few lakes around here but not near what it could and should be.

Think how good D&^%$^% would be with a little tweaking of the laws. I have seen a lot of really big fish on stringers there and the fishing is in my opinion not what it was a few years ago.

If you are new to the Edmonton area here is how you find the lakes with bigger fish in them... look for the bait fisherman on shore. The more bait fisherman, the bigger the fish. They don't like the lakes with only 9" fish either. Never been to Bullshead but they seem to like it there.

By the way I like ice fishing too. I icefish with flys and the fish usually do not get hooked deeply. I also keep a few fish to eat every so often. I really need to go fishing! I think the only reason I keep returning to this thread is that I am genuinely amazed by the resistance to what seems to me to be a no-brainer.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by Heron

I guess our definition of decent is different. Perhaps decent is the wrong word. How about quality? No, too vague. How about good or even excellent fishing? I read in a McLennan book once that catching 4lb fish all day would be a kind of hell. I agree but where it now is light years from that problem.

I know there are a few big fish in a few lakes around here but not near what it could and should be.

Think how good D&^%$^% would be with a little tweaking of the laws. I have seen a lot of really big fish on stringers there and the fishing is in my opinion not what it was a few years ago.

If you are new to the Edmonton area here is how you find the lakes with bigger fish in them... look for the bait fisherman on shore. The more bait fisherman, the bigger the fish. They don't like the lakes with only 9" fish either. Never been to Bullshead but they seem to like it there.

By the way I like ice fishing too. I icefish with flys and the fish usually do not get hooked deeply. I also keep a few fish to eat every so often. I really need to go fishing! I think the only reason I keep returning to this thread is that I am genuinely amazed by the resistance to what seems to me to be a no-brainer.

I'm on a six week countdown to some extraordinary open water fishing (pending the amount of more cold-snaps we're having). I've made some lures I want to try out with the rod and am going b'nonkers.

Back to the thread though,,, if the poll was fish size and consistency and a breakdown of a fisherman type needs to be worked in to the poll, and by type I mean years fished amateur through intermediate.

What is the definition of BIG Trout?

[DuckBrat]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

All that will be accomplished by changing put & take lakes into "quality" fisheries and C&R lakes is to turn a bunch of honest anglers into poachers.

(

Great, let's not do anything on account of your miniscule fears. Every fishery will be exposed to poachers unfortunately but you can bet some will be turned in. Good management of fisheries will account for these issues.

Next time I need to be underwhelmed I'll keep your ramblings in mind.

Originally Posted by GustavMahler

Back to the thread though,,, if the poll was fish size and consistency and a breakdown of a fisherman type needs to be worked in to the poll, and by type I mean years fished amateur through intermediate.

What is the definition of BIG Trout?

I don't think adding these variables would affect the numbers very much. Anglers both spin and fly, young and old, are going to be more accepting and excited by catching a fish that can battle, jump, and pull rather than winching in 6-10 inch fish all day on a stocked pond.

Just a note: More participants in this (or any other) poll makes it increasingly valuable. We are starting more folks chiming in, this is good.

As for Big Trout, the topic was covered earlier in the thread. It will vary from fishery to fishery but looking at stocked lakes in the boreal, parkland and prairie, a quality trout begins at 19" and ends somewhere past 30". Why, because these numbers have been proven to be easily attainable in these types of waters.