Methods for collecting chironomids from lake bottoms

greylynx · #1 01-21-2012, 08:43 PM

Does anyone have a method of collecting bottom muck, loonsxxt, etc for analyzing chironomids caddis, dragonflies etc. from deeper than a meter of water.

The proper tool to perform this operation is called an eckmann dredge which is about the same price as a Sage One.

I was wondering if anyone has a cheaper way of performing this muck sampling.

SalmoTrutta · #2 01-21-2012, 08:48 PM

how deep you looking to sample?

fish gunner · #3 01-21-2012, 09:04 PM

for water that is wadeable,I have used a hockey stick with the blade taken off then you screw a 2' length of metal lumber banding bent at an angle so that when you sweep it thru the mud it stays 1" down in the mud.we used this in the uk for collecting blood worms for bait.for deeper water we used a 40" landscaping rake head with a brick wired in the y it needed some patience but worked fine.hope this helps pm if you want more info

greylynx · #4 01-21-2012, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SalmoTrutta

how deep you looking to sample?

15 feet. It seems thats where some of the purple chironomids come from.

Dust1n · #5 01-21-2012, 09:42 PM

whitefish or the trout and use a throat pump

SalmoTrutta · #6 01-21-2012, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greylynx

15 feet. It seems thats where some of the purple chironomids come from.

several years when i went through "bug fever" I made a rig for sampling in deeper water out of a piece of 3" ABS, I cut notches on each side, like a whistle with the flat cut towards bottom, leaving about 8-10" below the cuts to catch your sample. I put a threaded 3x2 bushing on bottom and thread a 2" XXH pipe nipple on bottom for weight, sealing up the top of the 2" nipple. I use to lower it to bottom with my anchor rope, tag bottom, lift 2-3 feet drop it and it would spear in the bottom, lift it out with all your gooey goodness. Not a huge sample area but it works.

Guitarplayingfish · #7 01-21-2012, 10:01 PM

There are actually things designed for just this reason... There are a bunch depending what you want to sample.. You got your D-frame kick net, Surber sampler, and specifically for what your talking about I don't remember the name for it right now... but It looks like a metal birdhouse and scoops up mud from the bottom. If i can remember the name Ill let you know.

greylynx · #8 01-21-2012, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guitarplayingfish

There are actually things designed for just this reason... There are a bunch depending what you want to sample.. You got your D-frame kick net, Surber sampler, and specifically for what your talking about I don't remember the name for it right now... but It looks like a metal birdhouse and scoops up mud from the bottom. If i can remember the name Ill let you know.

It is called an eckmann dredge like I mentioned above.

greylynx · #9 01-21-2012, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SalmoTrutta

several years when i went through "bug fever" I made a rig for sampling in deeper water out of a piece of 3" ABS, I cut notches on each side, like a whistle with the flat cut towards bottom, leaving about 8-10" below the cuts to catch your sample. I put a threaded 3x2 bushing on bottom and thread a 2" XXH pipe nipple on bottom for weight, sealing up the top of the 2" nipple. I use to lower it to bottom with my anchor rope, tag bottom, lift 2-3 feet drop it and it would spear in the bottom, lift it out with all your gooey goodness. Not a huge sample area but it works.

Right on.

Thank-you Salmo Trutta.

I am not really into bug fever, but I started going through the specimen vials from last season to do a little kinky fly tying.

Something to do on a January evening.

Deeper water chironomids seem to have a void in my collection, so I figured I better put my Limnology hat on.

fish gunner · #10 01-21-2012, 10:13 PM

sorry forgot to mention the landscape rake is used on a rope so will work at any depth

greylynx · #11 01-21-2012, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fish gunner

sorry forgot to mention the landscape rake is used on a rope so will work at any depth

No remote control?

Again, very simple and very effective.

Thanks and Cheers.

Guitarplayingfish · #12 01-21-2012, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greylynx

It is called an eckmann dredge like I mentioned above.

haha oh yeah.. Guess I didn't read the entire thing

greylynx · #13 01-21-2012, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guitarplayingfish

haha oh yeah.. Guess I didn't read the entire thing

Not a problem.

Cheers.

AdamJ · #14 01-22-2012, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greylynx

Right on.

Thank-you Salmo Trutta.

I am not really into bug fever, but I started going through the specimen vials from last season to do a little kinky fly tying.

Something to do on a January evening.

Deeper water chironomids seem to have a void in my collection, so I figured I better put my Limnology hat on.

For what it's worth:
All chironomids eventually make their way to the surface regardless of how deep they begin (that is of course unless they're eaten by a fish prior to emergeance).
My suggestion would be to do more fishing - analyze what's hatching at different parts of the lake at different times of day, during different times of the season. Chironomid PUPAE will not change much in appearance from the time they leave their small mud burrow to the time the make it to the surface...they may look slightly shinier due to the increase in thoracic/abdominal gases.
As far as larvae go, it is widely accepted that "most" midge species display a prominent red colouration when in larval stage - the bloodworm.

And fish hunter 7 has a good point. Throat pumps work great for this kind of work. If you are convinced that there are fish down deep that are feeding on chironomids, but you can't seem to catch them, check out what is happening on the surface (take into account wind and current) and see if you can come up with a match.

If all else fails...slap on your scuba gear!

Also, when I am chironomiding, I'm usually in about 10-20 FOW. I have about 3 or 4 "go to" patterns that I start with and always catch something with - I could help you out with some patterns if you're interested. On picky days however, I might revert to my arsenal of 80+ different patterns....I know, overkill.....

fish gunner · #15 01-22-2012, 11:57 AM

I have noted one of mr lynx's other posts and believe he is trying to start a bug tank if i am not mistaken. an endeavor I can highly recommend. I kept a bug tank when I lived in nelson bc I was fortunate enough to live on the lake front.so I just placed a fish tank under my porch light with a few inches of mud I shoveled from the lake. the mud alone held many species of insects, having it under my porch light soon introduced every species the lake contained except the golden hex. it was a fantastic resource, walk out my back door check out insect activity and tie on the appropriate fly. off to the races I went.the hex never made an appearance in my tank.

greylynx · #16 01-22-2012, 12:18 PM

I also like to do a little taxonomic keying of my sample vials during the winter.
It is just a little adjunct to fly tying and fly fishing, and sort of makes the sport more addictive and more fun.

I set up a bug tank about 15 years ago, It is a lot of fun.

fish gunner · #17 01-22-2012, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greylynx

I also like to do a little taxonomic keying of my sample vials during the winter.
It is just a little adjunct to fly tying and fly fishing, and sort of makes the sport more addictive and more fun.

I set up a bug tank about 15 years ago, It is a lot of fun.

yes the one memory I have is bringing the tank in for the winter and having a trico invasion in my kitchen lol