Letter to the ministers to reduce draw wait times.

[diamonddave]

Wow entitled much??

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

LOL them comments right there show why Alberta is screwed. And yes the numbers are correct. Your welcome to look them up if you feel they arent.

How many Whitetail deer in the province compared to bighorn sheep?
How many Mule deer in the province compared to bighorn sheep?
How many Elk in the province compared to bighorn sheep?

How is accessiblity to deer, elk, antelope and moose compare to bighorn sheep?

What does it cost to go for a day deer hunting from say edmonton? Now what would that same day hunt cost for a hunt from edmonton to hunt bighorn sheep?

How much danger involved in say an average deer hunt? Now how much is involved in an average bighorn sheep?

How many guys can confidently judge a legal white tail or say 3pt elk? How many are confident to judge legality of a bighorn?

How many are confident to hunt a farmers field and drag a deer out or drive in and get it? How any are confident to climb a mountain and pack a sheep out?

How many guys are in shape enough to hunt deer? How many are in shape enough to attempt sheep hunting?

How much of the province are deer, elk and moose located? How much of the province are bighorns located?

There are a ton of variables that make sheep a special animal to hunt and that keep hunter numbers low.

Your just trying to justify your argument here..

I agree with variables, but I certainly don't think sheep hunting to a passionate outdoorsman is anything more than challenging

To others in our community, it is obvious with the numbers that the sheep draw is really nothing special.

[diamonddave]

Originally Posted by Ken H

We for the most part live in Alberta, we are very lucky to have as much hunting opportunity as we have. Should we get drawn at least every 4 -5 years for every animal we want to hunt, I don't think so. With the population rising a person must accept the good old days of hunting every animal you is long over. And that likely means some tags out there will be a once or twice tag in your lifetime, make the best of it. There are plenty of over the counter tags a person can purchase and still harvest a great animal. I have heard many people being drawn for bison more than once, this should not happen. Same with 438 sheep. As for the system, we should be charged for every tag we draw, and also pay more than $4.00 per entry for the draws we apply for. $10.00 would be fair in my opinion. Does not break the bank but still makes you think about what you want to draw for.

No it doesn't, all it does is put an extra $6.50 into the bank account of ibm or whoever it is now that looks after our draws down in the states. Increasing the application fee is redicules. If it makes you feel better just grab that 50$ bill out of your pocket and give it to a homeless person where it might actually do some good.
The other part of your post I agree with

[wildside2014]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

LOL them comments right there show why Alberta is screwed. And yes the numbers are correct. Your welcome to look them up if you feel they arent.

How many Whitetail deer in the province compared to bighorn sheep?
How many Mule deer in the province compared to bighorn sheep?
How many Elk in the province compared to bighorn sheep?

How is accessiblity to deer, elk, antelope and moose compare to bighorn sheep?

What does it cost to go for a day deer hunting from say edmonton? Now what would that same day hunt cost for a hunt from edmonton to hunt bighorn sheep?

How much danger involved in say an average deer hunt? Now how much is involved in an average bighorn sheep?

How many guys can confidently judge a legal white tail or say 3pt elk? How many are confident to judge legality of a bighorn?

How many are confident to hunt a farmers field and drag a deer out or drive in and get it? How any are confident to climb a mountain and pack a sheep out?

How many guys are in shape enough to hunt deer? How many are in shape enough to attempt sheep hunting?

How much of the province are deer, elk and moose located? How much of the province are bighorns located?

There are a ton of variables that make sheep a special animal to hunt and that keep hunter numbers low.

As far as the danger goes, statistically there is more involved in deer hunting due to the massive numbers that partake in it. Furthermore, how is it any different when speaking of the guys that historically hunt in similar areas as sheep hunters? If youre referring to danger as bears...give me a break man.

How many guys can judge the size and weight of goose 40 yards in the air? Id be willing to bet my own experience with that exceeds yours. So does that make the waterfowl tag that I hold every year more 'pretigious' as your ram tag you chase every year? ridiculous statement on your part.

I run 8 km's per day and follow that up with 45 minutes of lifting. I played major junior hockey, yet historically I wouldn't call myself a sheep hunter. What the eff does any of that have to do with classifying a tags importance or prestige??????

In my chosen WMU historically there have been no elk. Now there are. Just because I drew a cow tag it doesn't mean I hold a set of magic beans and should classify myself as some sort of hard core phenom. Nor does it mean everyone should be getting out of my way come November so I can harvest my golden cow elk. It holds no more, no less weight than the old boy road hunting for his doe whitey or mule.

I think youre putting way too much stock into what your chosen game is. And frankly, making yourself out to be much more of an outdoorsman than you actually are. Theres hundreds of guys on this forum that have the ability to make you, and myself look foolish when speaking of actual field skills and such. Get over it.

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Your just trying to justify your argument here..

I agree with variables, but I certainly don't think sheep hunting to a passionate outdoorsman is anything more than challenging

To others in our community, it is obvious with the numbers that the sheep draw is really nothing special.

Wow!!!!! Ya your right. Bighorn sheep are really nothing special.

[wildside2014]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

Wow!!!!! Ya your right. Bighorn sheep are really nothing special.

I think sleds point is to each their own. I personally get no charge whatsoever seeing photos of big rams. Nor do I get a charge out of big mule deer our piles of dead grouse.

I do get a charge out of a cranker whitey and piles of waterfowl. Just because you get a rise out of an animal with fewer tags and animal numbers doesn't make it any more special than readily available game.

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by wildside2014

As far as the danger goes, statistically there is more involved in deer hunting due to the massive numbers that partake in it. Furthermore, how is it any different when speaking of the guys that historically hunt in similar areas as sheep hunters? If youre referring to danger as bears...give me a break man.

Ya your right there is no more danger involved in sheep hunting. What animals are you historically hunting on most sheep range? The odd mule buck in the odd tree line area? Maybe the odd elk on a high timbered ridge. If you feel that sheep hunting does not hold anymore danger than im sure you haven't been in alot of sheep country. In freak blizzards on scree slopes, caught in lightning storms on the mountain. Stuck on a mountain over night due to darkness. Packed a sheep off a high mountain ridge on your back. Many hunters dont do well if caught in many of these situations and many are very unprepared for it. Hence why many held to the deer woods and not the scree slopes and mountain peaks.

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by wildside2014

How many guys can judge the size and weight of goose 40 yards in the air? Id be willing to bet my own experience with that exceeds yours. So does that make the waterfowl tag that I hold every year more 'pretigious' as your ram tag you chase every year? ridiculous statement on your part.
.

If you miss judge that gooses size do you get charged, lose your lic and possibly all gear involved? Do you have to draw an imaginary line from one part of said goose to another part at a few hundred yards in field conditions with a spotting scope and decide if its legal? Its the hardest animal there is in Alberta to judge if its legal, that scares some guys! Its proven right on this forum with how many threads have been posted on the exact topic.

Comparing the judging of a goose's size to judging legality of a bighorn sheep is the ridiculous part of that comment.

[MAC]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

Its not greedy its just a simple fact if we dont want tags to be like some are now and never obtainable things have to change. And with that the only change is removing those that really dont care for the tags but apply just for the simple fact that it is cheap. So guys will put in for 50yrs or a lifetime say and never get a tag costing them $200+. But wouldnt pay $100/yr to apply for 10yrs and get a tag. Makes sense to me. Keeper cheap so everyone can afford the draw to watch themselves not hunt!!!! You rock Alberta!! Next thread!

Greed:
excessive or rapacious desire, especially for wealth or possessions.

Ah but it is greed, your desire to posses a tag to hunt Bighorn is great enough for you to want increase your odds at the expense of others.

You have no more right to a tag than anyone else. The cost of an animal for anyone is 0 dollars. What we pay in taxes and fees are for management of the resource and if they need to go up in order to manage the resource properly it must go up. This includes paying for your tag once drawn. If you choose to hunt or not hunt the animal unfortunately is the individual's choice.

If Bighorn hunting is such a special opportunity as you describe, whynot try your hand at the Ministers auction for a tag .$150,000.00 is not that much if you cut out smoking, drinking and drive a cheap truck. If you really value the animal you can make it work. Is that not what your point is.

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by wildside2014

ing for his doe whitey or mule.

I think youre putting way too much stock into what your chosen game is. And frankly, making yourself out to be much more of an outdoorsman than you actually are. Theres hundreds of guys on this forum that have the ability to make you, and myself look foolish when speaking of actual field skills and such. Get over it.

Actually the world of hunting puts that much stock on all mountain sheep hunting world wide.

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by MAC

Greed:
excessive or rapacious desire, especially for wealth or possessions.

Ah but it is greed, your desire to posses a tag to hunt Bighorn is great enough for you to want increase your odds at the expense of others.

You have no more right to a tag than anyone else. The cost of an animal for anyone is 0 dollars. What we pay in taxes and fees are for management of the resource and if they need to go up in order to manage the resource properly it must go up. This includes paying for your tag once drawn. If you choose to hunt or not hunt the animal unfortunately is the individual's choice.

If Bighorn hunting is such a special opportunity as you describe, whynot try your hand at the Ministers auction for a tag .$150,000.00 is not that much if you cut out smoking, drinking and drive a cheap truck. If you really value the animal you can make it work. Is that not what your point is.

I actually dont really care if I kill a sheep ever again. Maybe one day I will maybe I wont. I put my time in on ATC tags and have harvested a few rams of my own. Id actually be fine if they said that anyone that has harvested a ram in Alberta can no longer get a tag. Let the new guys harvest their ram. Id still get to hunt sheep with buddies and that means more anyways. But do feel all tags available should be utalized and not wasted.

But if I was drawn id hunt that tag with every bit of my passion for the mounatins and maybe find that next dream ram as that is the tag to find it on. Id sure the hell wouldnt waste the tag by not even going or buying it.

[residentguide]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

If you miss judge that gooses size do you get charged, lose your lic and possibly all gear involved? Do you have to draw an imaginary line from one part of said goose to another part at a few hundred yards in field conditions with a spotting scope and decide if its legal? Its the hardest animal there is in Alberta to judge if its legal, that scares some guys! Its proven right on this forum with how many threads have been posted on the exact topic.

Comparing the judging of a goose's size to judging legality of a bighorn sheep is the ridiculous part of that comment.

Just like every post I have read in this thread. I could not read any more so I created an account on this forum. You and your ideas are lacking facts and like most in this province are plain opinions. By the way super sheep hunter post up a pic of all your rams since you are a sheep god. By the way you are not the only sheep hunter in this province. Sheep are not all you are saying. The hunt is were the true part of the hunt comes from. Just cause you think different than others don't push your crap on us. As for animals sheep are the dumbest animals in this province.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

Ya your right there is no more danger involved in sheep hunting. What animals are you historically hunting on most sheep range? The odd mule buck in the odd tree line area? Maybe the odd elk on a high timbered ridge. If you feel that sheep hunting does not hold anymore danger than im sure you haven't been in alot of sheep country. In freak blizzards on scree slopes, caught in lightning storms on the mountain. Stuck on a mountain over night due to darkness. Packed a sheep off a high mountain ridge on your back. Many hunters dont do well if caught in many of these situations and many are very unprepared for it. Hence why many held to the deer woods and not the scree slopes and mountain peaks.

Hunting is hunting, period. If I choose to hike 50 miles back into the bush to hunt deer that is my choice. If I choose to hunt deer close to the road it is my choice. If I choose to hunt sheep on top of a mountain that is my choice. If I choose to hunt sheep close to the road it is my choice. Hunting is what YOU make of it and it can be as dangerous as YOU want it to be.
If I want to hunt sheep and stay closer to the bottom of the mountain that is my choice and I should have just as much right as YOU.
You sound like a passionate sheep hunted and that is fine, but your passion is no more important than mine or others.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

Actually the world of hunting puts that much stock on all mountain sheep hunting world wide.

No they don't....

[residentguide]

Originally Posted by MAC

Greed:
excessive or rapacious desire, especially for wealth or possessions.

Ah but it is greed, your desire to posses a tag to hunt Bighorn is great enough for you to want increase your odds at the expense of others.

You have no more right to a tag than anyone else. The cost of an animal for anyone is 0 dollars. What we pay in taxes and fees are for management of the resource and if they need to go up in order to manage the resource properly it must go up. This includes paying for your tag once drawn. If you choose to hunt or not hunt the animal unfortunately is the individual's choice.

If Bighorn hunting is such a special opportunity as you describe, whynot try your hand at the Ministers auction for a tag .$150,000.00 is not that much if you cut out smoking, drinking and drive a cheap truck. If you really value the animal you can make it work. Is that not what your point is.

x2. Some people just act great but only a few truly are. This is what make the internet so great. Everybody is behind a keyboard.

[Lefty-Canuck]

If I put in 1 minute or 100days hunting a tag, how is that any different....it's MY tag I can decide whatever it is I want to do....get over it I think some would just prefer to have that tag in their pockets instead if me having it in mine

....I may or may not be successful after 1 minute or 100 days....

The thing that bothers me is those who are cheating a system and who technically should not be eligible to hold the tags they do....

LC

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

No they don't....

LOL ya your right.

[wildside2014]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

LOL ya your right.

lol Yes, sled is right. Where are you getting this info that sheep hunting is held in higher regard than a cranker whitetail? Please provide me with the link

[diamond k]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

Thought you said in the other thread that the draw fee shouldn't be increased, but the Tag should? You sure seem to be flip flopping on this one.
People with your mentality and ideas on how it should be are going to be the death of hunting as we know it.

Huntin stuff said it best when he said just sit back on your chairs you anti hunters, we will do all the work and ruin it all on our own for you.

Nobody on here is an anti hunter but the argment that if you are not of one opinion you are an anti hunter. Getting old and stale DD

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by wildside2014

lol Yes, sled is right. Where are you getting this info that sheep hunting is held in higher regard than a cranker whitetail? Please provide me with the link

X2

[residentguide]

Originally Posted by wildside2014

lol Yes, sled is right. Where are you getting this info that sheep hunting is held in higher regard than a cranker whitetail? Please provide me with the link

Exactly. White tails are the animal people put as number one on that list.

[diamonddave]

Originally Posted by diamond k

Nobody on here is an anti hunter but the argment that if you are not of one opinion you are an anti hunter. Getting old and stale DD

You must have ducked Dk because my statement went right over your head.

My statement was not because we have different opinons DK, it is because some people are pushing for changes that will effect everybody's right and ability to hunt in Alberta. If you think that me having an issue with that is getting stale then that's your right.
Our division will have more direct impact on how our game is managed and our right to hunt, than any Anti out there.
If your good with that open up you bag of chips and watch the show.....

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

So if ESRD plans for 100 purchased tag @ $36 and gives out 118 to compensate for those that dont purchase they plan to have $3600 invested. Then that year 22% dont purchase the now only have $2808 invested to use. Those extra guys just took $792 from conservation and whatever because they chose not to buy a tag. If you put out 100 tags every year with a mandatory purchase you now have $3600 every year to bank on. And in Alberta that $792 figure can be multiplied by huge values even if an extra 1-2% don't purchase!!!

Why are guys so scared to have to pay for tags applied for?? You applied so id presume if drawn you should have the plan on buying. So why not make that purchase mandatory with a set date to hand them back in if unable to use?? God guys are friggin cheap!!! Want it all but they want it all for nothing!! No wonder things are on such a down hill slide in Alberta!

This post exemplifies your lack of knowledge on how ESRD F&W is funded. The whole context of your example is wrong and was a waste of time.

[diamond k]

Originally Posted by wildside2014

lol Yes, sled is right. Where are you getting this info that sheep hunting is held in higher regard than a cranker whitetail? Please provide me with the link

Sorry but yes sheep hunting is held in a higher regard by most in my opinion.

You can shoot a whitetail from Florida to Alaska but sheep are much more isolated and probably 10,000 whitetails for every sheep in North America

Not to many sheep shot out of a truck window but lots of big deer get shot that way.

[diamond k]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

You must have ducked Dk because my statement went right over your head.

My statement was not because we have different opinons DK, it is because some people are pushing for changes that will effect everybody's right and ability to hunt in Alberta. If you think that me having an issue with that is getting stale then that's your right.
Our division will have more direct impact on how our game is managed and our right to hunt, than any Anti out there.
If your good with that open up you bag of chips and watch the show.....

Having opinions does not make you an anti hunter. That was my point. You were the one who brought the anti hunting comment to a bunch of HUNTERS discussing the merits of making changing to a policy that affects HUNTERS.

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

This post exemplifies your lack of knowledge on how ESRD F&W is funded. The whole context of your example is wrong and was a waste of time.

[diamonddave]

Originally Posted by diamond k

Having opinions does not make you an anti hunter. That was my point. You were the one who brought the anti hunting comment to a bunch of HUNTERS discussing the merits of making changing to a policy that affects HUNTERS.

What would you call a group of people who are trying to make changes to a system that will destroy our hunting heritage in the future?

Oh, and by the way, if you actually read the post I never called anyone here an anti hunter, better brush up on your reading comprehension.

[walking buffalo]

Here is an interesting 2003 research paper on Women hunters in Alberta and the Draw system.
Everyone that has the desire to further their understanding of the implications of "Draw Abuse" should read this.

Pay close attention to the potential benefits to the whole hunting community when evaluating the importance of "Lazy, cheap, non-committed" hunters.


Weeding out the "less serious hunters" is a path to reducing societies support for this lifestyle.




Women Hunters in Alberta, Canada:
Girl Power or Guys in Disguise?

http://www.cfs.nrcan.gc.ca/bookstore...postonline.pdf


A cut from the Discussion.

"Wildlife managers might view the guys-in-disguise as a violation of hunting
regulations because these women are attempting to obtain licenses for another
hunter. Some managers might feel it necessary to pursue such violations using
legal action. Rather than punishing this behavior, we believe that researchers and managers should seek to understand it.

Although about 30% of women hunters appear to be entering the license system only for a lottery draw, they may still be important allies for hunter recruitment. By entering the license system as guys-in-disguise, these women are exhibiting interest and support for hunting. Indeed, although not actively participating in hunting, they may enjoy hunting by going afield with male hunters and family members, participating in hunting-related activities such as butchering and eating the meat, and being an integral part of a family experience. Although they might not purchase a license, they may still
perceive themselves as hunters because of their involvement in hunting-related activities. These women may serve as ambassadors for hunting by encouraging their children and other women to participate in hunting or hunting-related activities.


Childhood participation in hunting-related activities has been shown to be an
important influence in subsequent recruitment and retention (Purdy & Decker,
1986). Activities such as going afield with hunters, helping to dress game, and
preparing the meat may be important antecedents to initiation and commitment.

Women who provide social support to the hunting fraternity and participate in
hunting-related activities have been invisible in studies of hunter recruitment and retention in Alberta and elsewhere in North America.

Further research is needed to examine this segment of women in terms of their role within the social world of hunting, their hunting activities, their motivations for this type of involvement, their impact on hunting recruitment and retention, and factors that may be constraining their involvement to hunting-related activities. "

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by diamond k

Sorry but yes sheep hunting is held in a higher regard by most in my opinion.

You can shoot a whitetail from Florida to Alaska but sheep are much more isolated and probably 10,000 whitetails for every sheep in North America

Not to many sheep shot out of a truck window but lots of big deer get shot that way.

No it is not DK.

The most sought after big game species is the whitetail deer..

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

Ya your right there is no more danger involved in sheep hunting. What animals are you historically hunting on most sheep range? The odd mule buck in the odd tree line area? Maybe the odd elk on a high timbered ridge. If you feel that sheep hunting does not hold anymore danger than im sure you haven't been in alot of sheep country. In freak blizzards on scree slopes, caught in lightning storms on the mountain. Stuck on a mountain over night due to darkness. Packed a sheep off a high mountain ridge on your back. Many hunters dont do well if caught in many of these situations and many are very unprepared for it. Hence why many held to the deer woods and not the scree slopes and mountain peaks.

For a Minuit there I thought we were high up, hunting Taliban in Afganistan.....I shot a Mountain goat once on the Top of syncline Mountain in Alberta...Tough...Yes,extreme..NO

I'm going to go out on a Limb and guess that you have been banned from this Forum before