Quality Trout Fisheries in Alberta

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

Im willing to support some changes if some basic provisions can be met
1- the choosen lake have other lakes relatively near by that remain governed by the regulations present now. This allows the other group to keep fishing as they please.
2- if possible a days fished log is estimated or kept. Sadly in some cases this method isnt fair but it is the era of if you dont use it be prepared to lose it. Im by no means suggesting killing every project lake, especially if successful.


i appreciate everyones....well you remember way back when stories.....but the fact is things change in life and many things cant be reversed.
i still know of some very good quality trout waters in alberta...thats a fact
do i lock all my doors of my truck when i go fishing.....yes....back 15 years ago...no...thats a fact. And i know i'll have to till the day im dirt dust.
Are the waters i claim as quality as good as the lakes i fish in B.C. ...NO...but they never were.
This has been a standing discussion for a long time, be honest the last thread was very similar in nature....so similar you'd need a biologist to examine both threads to separate them.
Maybe after all of this ...im not against the idea...with proper research...maybe im convinced with the amount of fisherman we have now the proposed project is doomed and not possible.
I think also the cart is before the horse. Tales of people hauling stringers of walleye from Travers and PCR....make me wonder
Compare your propossal to striking gold, who and what protects that gold now?

You make very reasonable points. Having everyone agree to share and compromise and not ignore any user group is key to improving fishing over all IMHO. Plus the more people that get hooked on catching more and bigger fish will gravitate to the quality fisheries and any future trophy fisheries and stay away from put and take fisheries.

As for having to lock your truck up...try this security system...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRNVxHPJ0hM

:-)

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Outcast 1100

The problem is that alberta doesnt have enough lakes, i mean good sized lakes. i dont think C&R is good thing being that fish dont live very long, so there is no point to that unless it is a new fishery being started. you need a over under size limit to make it work properly. i would really like to see 5 any size a thing of the past, there is simply to much fishing pressure at some lakes to sustain a good fish population so everybody can have a chance at catching some nice sized fish, being a lake white or a rainbow trout. Take a picture its the catch you remember not the meal. personally most of the fish arent that great eating anyways, so i dont mind putting back the fish i catch. sea bass, grouper, red snapper, mahi mahi, those are good eating fish. LOL

Now there's an idea that I can sink my teeth into. Not that I agree with it entirely but it's nice to see someone thinking outside of the box. Cudos to you Outcast!

Indeed there are allot of anglers to bodies of water in Alberta and short of digging big holes to flood or damming rivers to flood areas there's not much to do in order to change that. I don't think that filling bodies of water with easier to catch bigger fish is the answer though. Perhaps a three fish limit is a good option. For fish eaters like me it would just mean that I'd have to go out fishing more often if I wanted a meal. For the "quality" fishery fellas it might make it easier for them to catch a bigger fish.

I think that you would need to cap the size of fish that you were allowed to keep (ie nothing over 20" for example) in order to keep everyone happy though. The fish huggers would still get their photo op and the fish eaters would still be able to catch a meal.

It all comes down to angler attitude and education IMO. Most fish eaters know that smaller "eatin'" sized fish taste better than big fish. That's why they're called "eatin'" sized. Who wants to eat a muddy tasting big trout when you can eat a nicer tasting smaller one? Or, a big old greasy 10 lb lake trout over a better tasting 3 lber? If someone doesn't know or understand that then they need to be taught it. The "bigger is better" attitudes also have to change. There's far too much emphasis on catching big fish IMO.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

In order to understand where we're going we must understand where we were.
From the 49th to the Edmonton area I've had the good fortune of catching trout over 5 lbs. with most of the larger fish caught some years ago. That was Quality Fishing.

Now if I traveled the same route I might get a chance in one single lake of a 5 lbs. fish. Obviously not a Quality fishery.

Now some folks want to return this Province to what it was and the few, by looking @ the poll - very few are saying that they don't want to catch decent sized fish.

The real question is - if the few want a lake where they can kill @ their hearts content - lets give them a few - maybe 10 or being a little magnanimous - maybe 20.


But no - in order to entertain the 12" fish crowd, we make every lake but 2 crap fisheries.

Is this ass-backwards or what.


Don

So you are admitting that you can catch a 5 lb trout right now. Isn't that enough? How many 5 lb trout do you need to catch on one fishing trip in order to satisfy your need to catch big fish?

And people wonder why I call "quality" fisheries a way of making catching bigger fish easier? Ask Don! They are already there, you just have to work harder to catch them. That's what makes it so sweet when you do.

SRD currently has 17 lakes listed as "quality" fisheries. Why are you saying that there are only 2 of them?

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/ManagingPr...**ers-2010.pdf

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

You say you can catch lots of big fish and small fish in the lakes you fish in Alberta. Great that you can and nobody else can. If you are lucky enough to be near a stocked lake with little to no fishing pressure that could explain it however.

Yes, I can and no, I am not. Being near a lake like you described shouldn't be an issue according to you fellas......unless I'm correct in stating that this is all about making things easier!

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Yes, I can and no, I am not. Being near a lake like you described shouldn't be an issue according to you fellas......unless I'm correct in stating that this is all about making things easier!

in it simplest term or complicated term ....absolutely YES...EASIER

[Gust]

When was it ever about easier?,, Chub you've clocked a gazillion hours on lakes and streams as have I, it's a zen sport that changes in increments and is different one day to the next, it's about learning waters not just pulling up and wham a 10 pounder. I'm not challenging you by the way.

Is fishing as good as it was 30 years ago? Actually, come to think of it, I've learned more and more technique, so I would say yes it is as good,, and tomorrow I will learn more and so forth. Next year I will be that much closer to thinking I've mastered it and then feel as if I'm learning from scratch again.

There's a running assumption that if one isn't C&R then they are hoarders and the problem. Or likewise if one enjoys a put & take lake then they are chump fishermen not worthy of participating in a debate.

WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF QUALITY FISHERY?
a number of fish every outing?
one a day 4 pounds and up?
one lunker a week a month a year, what, what, what?

Maybe people need to ask themselves why they fish.

Once that's defined then the debate will make sense.

If you are having problems catching 20"+ fish then it seems you need to hone a new technique and explore a bit and be a bit more hush on where the big ones are when you see em. They are there, you will find them, it takes years or work to learn about them.

Off topic; has anyone read "The River Why"?

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by GustavMahler

When was it ever about easier?,, Chub you've clocked a gazillion hours on lakes and streams as have I, it's a zen sport that changes in increments and is different one day to the next, it's about learning waters not just pulling up and wham a 10 pounder. I'm not challenging you by the way.

Is fishing as good as it was 30 years ago? Actually, come to think of it, I've learned more and more technique, so I would say yes it is as good,, and tomorrow I will learn more and so forth. Next year I will be that much closer to thinking I've mastered it and then feel as if I'm learning from scratch again.

There's a running assumption that if one isn't C&R then they are hoarders and the problem. Or likewise if one enjoys a put & take lake then they are chump fishermen not worthy of participating in a debate.

WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF QUALITY FISHERY?
a number of fish every outing?
one a day 4 pounds and up?
one lunker a week a month a year, what, what, what?

Maybe people need to ask themselves why they fish.

Once that's defined then the debate will make sense.

If you are having problems catching 20"+ fish then it seems you need to hone a new technique and explore a bit and be a bit more hush on where the big ones are when you see em. They are there, you will find them, it takes years or work to learn about them.

Off topic; has anyone read "The River Why"?

im just simply saying....its easier if there is more...like finding ginch at walmart is easier to do then buying ginch at home depot
I agree with your variables....but Daves point is the more fish of quality proportions the easier it is to get one. That is a pretty rock solid statement. Even in the trophy fishery i fish for 25lb+ RBT that holds very true.
Badger is a good example. Even though some have problems there if you were to choose a lake to hunt a trophy....Badger or Carburn??

I also asked for a answer to what makes a quality fishery but got no answer.

Here is another point to add to the fire
the Bow river has been a ever changing fishery. I wasnt there when the cart broke down and they dumped the fish in the river as a last resort..lol
But ive logged alot of hours on the Bow, not so many in the park but from the Bears paw to arrowood. I have native friends who give me access to launch my jet boat on reserve land and mostly i fish the lower reaches.
There was a time when small drys were king and those times still occur. Times gone by hopper fishing was just stupid....fish would fight over a floating hopper...all though there are still times like that its not as common.
Many times i would watch a good flyfisherman work a run with even bobber and lead or swing a streamer...catch a few decent fish and claim the Bow aint what it used to be. Then a kid with a buzz bomb or count down rapala would take a turn at the run.....boom here comes in a 4-5 brown with the hardware in its mouth like a pitbull with a bone. One must ask is the Bow a quality fishery. OF COURSE IT IS...but imo its become a more lead bigger fly fishery. Do i enjoy the screaming kid's excitement more than watching a pouting flyfisherman with all the latest gear walking away in disgust....lol...its a close tie. The kid goes home after catching bugs and watching birds...eats a melted choco bar in his pocket...happiness in its truest form. The flyfisherman goes to the flyshop and tells everyone the Bow is finnished if we dont make the Bow fly only. Then goes home to watch a River Runs Through It for the 100th time with a razor blade in his hand.
Flyfisherman have alot of clout in this area.....count the fly shops....ever see a buzz bomb shop..lol. Even WSS built a separate room for flyfisherman im quessing to try prevent any disease they might catch from a lowly baitfisherman or hardware chucker.

Im not against flyfishing, after ice fishing for walleyes i enjoy it second best.
My point is this is how alot of misconceptions of how a fishery is doing get started.

I repeat im not flaming flyfisherman.....but if your one of the guys i spoke about above....i will expect your nasty response.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by GustavMahler

WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF QUALITY FISHERY?
a number of fish every outing?
one a day 4 pounds and up?
one lunker a week a month a year, what, what, what?

Maybe people need to ask themselves why they fish.

Once that's defined then the debate will make sense.

My definition of a "quality" fishery is different from the accepted definition that SRD calls it and hardcore "quality" fishery fellas.

To me a "quality" fishery is a lake where you have a reasonnable chance of catching a reasonnable amount of fish with the possibility of catching a bigger fish if you are lucky enough to hook one.

I fish for the enjoyment of fishing first and the ability to eat some of what I catch comes second.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Now there's an idea that I can sink my teeth into. Not that I agree with it entirely but it's nice to see someone thinking outside of the box. Cudos to you Outcast!

Indeed there are allot of anglers to bodies of water in Alberta and short of digging big holes to flood or damming rivers to flood areas there's not much to do in order to change that. I don't think that filling bodies of water with easier to catch bigger fish is the answer though. Perhaps a three fish limit is a good option. For fish eaters like me it would just mean that I'd have to go out fishing more often if I wanted a meal. For the "quality" fishery fellas it might make it easier for them to catch a bigger fish.

I think that you would need to cap the size of fish that you were allowed to keep (ie nothing over 20" for example) in order to keep everyone happy though. The fish huggers would still get their photo op and the fish eaters would still be able to catch a meal.

It all comes down to angler attitude and education IMO. Most fish eaters know that smaller "eatin'" sized fish taste better than big fish. That's why they're called "eatin'" sized. Who wants to eat a muddy tasting big trout when you can eat a nicer tasting smaller one? Or, a big old greasy 10 lb lake trout over a better tasting 3 lber? If someone doesn't know or understand that then they need to be taught it. The "bigger is better" attitudes also have to change. There's far too much emphasis on catching big fish IMO.

Angler attitude is not controllable with limited fish numbers. Many people want to harvest what they legally can and before the other guy does. You can't stop that...only set regulations that controls the harvest rate over time.

The idea of a slot size could work in some lakes however but not in high use areas. Taking 3 a day and making repeated trips will delay the harvest but not allow fish to grow. The over 20 inch idea would therefore never materialize. Maybe 1 a day could work in some situations but then people will complain you can't feed the family. Still remember I am referring to high use areas. Remote lakes or lakes out in the middle of nowhere will have a better chance to see fish grow so it is possible. As I mentioned before...we should try ideas like this in places to see if it improves the value of the fishery.

Smaller trout versus larger trout in the same body of water will not have different taste unless the trout you just caught was just dumped by the hatchery truck. I have never seen this. That muddy taste comes from what the fish eats...not the water itself. Chironomids live in the mud and the anerobic bacteria release sulphur which taints the meat. We get that at Sundance as well. High mountain lakes or more rocky lakes...not as bad.

The whole purpose of stocking is to provide easy to catch fish which you are against. I am confused Dave... Do you want to reduce the numbers of trout stocked? Maybe the confusion lies between comparing quality fishery to a put and take fishery. Quality fisheries like Bullhead allows for natural growth of stocked rainbows till they reach a harvestable size. The fish remain in the lake so that there are fish to catch. Catch rates are higher and remain so over time. In a strictly stocked put and take lake...the fish are availble for immediate harvest. Catch rates decline quickly down to zero in many places within weeks after stocking. Newly stocked rainbows are incredibly easy to catch.

[goldscud]

For me, a quality trout fishery is where there is a good number of fish over 17" with a good chance of catching some fish over 20". Of course skill and experience will affect the catch rates. If you fish all day and catch a good number of fish that are all under 14", I wouldn't call that a quality fishery. It is true that a lake stuffed with huge fish doesn't offer much challenge. I've had some fun fishing in high density/huge fish scenarios. It gets old pretty quick unless you challenge yourself to catch the fish in a more difficult way. I'm looking for the opportunity to catch a few fish over 4lbs MOST days that I head out. I realize catch rates change between days, but experienced anglers always seem to catch most of the fish. Someone once said 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish. The numbers seem too be not to far off. So even if I don't catch the fish over 4lb, I would like them to be present for the opportunity.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

Do i enjoy the screaming kid's excitement more than watching a pouting flyfisherman with all the latest gear walking away in disgust....lol...its a close tie. The kid goes home after catching bugs and watching birds...eats a melted choco bar in his pocket...happiness in its truest form. The flyfisherman goes to the flyshop and tells everyone the Bow is finnished if we dont make the Bow fly only. Then goes home to watch a River Runs Through It for the 100th time with a razor blade in his hand.

Now that's funny stuff right there!

Yeah, they're both equally entertaining to me for different reasons.

I'm the fella in the banged up 12' aluminum boat with a first aid kit containing a few different lures and my lumberjack jacket and ballcap on in.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by goldscud

For me, a quality trout fishery is where there is a good number of fish over 17" with a good chance of catching some fish over 20". Of course skill and experience will affect the catch rates. If you fish all day and catch a good number of fish that are all under 14", I wouldn't call that a quality fishery. It is true that a lake stuffed with huge fish doesn't offer much challenge. I've had some fun fishing in high density/huge fish scenarios. It gets old pretty quick unless you challenge yourself to catch the fish in a more difficult way. I'm looking for the opportunity to catch a few fish over 4lbs MOST days that I head out. I realize catch rates change between days, but experienced anglers always seem to catch most of the fish. Someone once said 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish. The numbers seem too be not to far off. So even if I don't catch the fish over 4lb, I would like them to be present for the opportunity.

There seems to be a disparagy between two points regarding ease of fish catching and size.

A) One group wants easy to catch small trout 9-12 inches in length.

B) One group wants good catch rates but with plenty of 16-19 inch trout with a good chance over 20 inch

Group A hopes that there are lots of big fish around but you just have to hunt for them.

Group A tends to want to keep trout to eat.

Group A requires higher stocking rates to keep up on the harvest demand

Group B believes harvest rates are so high in Group A that there are so few bigger or none even that fishing is not challenging.

Group B tends to be more recreational fishing...and puts most trout back.

Group B requires lower stocking rates to increase growth rates.

What is a definition of Quality Lake would be for me?

It is a lake wherein the trout remain in the lake longer so that there are always trout to catch (when they bite) regardless of when the stocking truck left. Catch rates are higher and remain so over time. There are plenty of 16-19 inch trout with a good chance over 20 inch but still you have to have some skill to catch them as they are not dumb newly stocked trout.

Chubdarter...

Most flyfishermen started off chucking everything under the sink. They gravitated to flyfishing for a reason. It is definitely different than a buzz bomb and I have a tackle box full of them when needed.

There is lots of comments about how people should have to work for the trout and that it is not about having it easy. Flyfishing is the closest to work you can get. You need good technique, the right fly, the right location, the right presentation drift, depth etc... then you still miss a subtle strike. Buzz bombs are easier to catch fish at times...but it is not about the easy...it is about the chase and the hunt and tricking the fish. When that does not work...I break out my buzz bombs and rapalas.

Is it more entertaining or satisfying to see a 16 inch trout take a dry fly on the surface...or whack a buzz bomb under the surface? The answer is simple...depends upon the person and the day. And neither answer IMHO is wrong.

Cheers

Sun

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

So you are admitting that you can catch a 5 lb trout right now. Isn't that enough? How many 5 lb trout do you need to catch on one fishing trip in order to satisfy your need to catch big fish?

And people wonder why I call "quality" fisheries a way of making catching bigger fish easier? Ask Don! They are already there, you just have to work harder to catch them. That's what makes it so sweet when you do.

SRD currently has 17 lakes listed as "quality" fisheries. Why are you saying that there are only 2 of them?

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/ManagingPr...**ers-2010.pdf

WHOA.....stop the press....there is already 17 of these proposed fisheries?
Im at fault for not looking up the facts.
Are the 17 a sucess?

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

WHOA.....stop the press....there is already 17 of these proposed fisheries?
Im at fault for not looking up the facts.
Are the 17 a sucess?

Okay, now I'm freaked out. I was quoting Don Anderson's post.

I don't know if they are a success cuz I don't fish them. The proposal to shut down Police Lake doesn't seem to indicate that one was a success.

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

There seems to be a disparagy between two points regarding ease of fish catching and size.

A) One group wants easy to catch small trout 9-12 inches in length.

B) One group wants good catch rates but with plenty of 16-19 inch trout with a good chance over 20 inch

Group A hopes that there are lots of big fish around but you just have to hunt for them.

Group A tends to want to keep trout to eat.

Group A requires higher stocking rates to keep up on the harvest demand

Group B believes harvest rates are so high in Group A that there are so few bigger or none even that fishing is not challenging.

Group B tends to be more recreational fishing...and puts most trout back.

Group B requires lower stocking rates to increase growth rates.

What is a definition of Quality Lake would be for me?

It is a lake wherein the trout remain in the lake longer so that there are always trout to catch (when they bite) regardless of when the stocking truck left. Catch rates are higher and remain so over time. There are plenty of 16-19 inch trout with a good chance over 20 inch but still you have to have some skill to catch them as they are not dumb newly stocked trout.

Chubdarter...

Most flyfishermen started off chucking everything under the sink. They gravitated to flyfishing for a reason. It is definitely different than a buzz bomb and I have a tackle box full of them when needed.

There is lots of comments about how people should have to work for the trout and that it is not about having it easy. Flyfishing is the closest to work you can get. You need good technique, the right fly, the right location, the right presentation drift, depth etc... then you still miss a subtle strike. Buzz bombs are easier to catch fish at times...but it is not about the easy...it is about the chase and the hunt and tricking the fish. When that does not work...I break out my buzz bombs and rapalas.

Is it more entertaining or satisfying to see a 16 inch trout take a dry fly on the surface...or whack a buzz bomb under the surface? The answer is simple...depends upon the person and the day. And neither answer IMHO is wrong.

Cheers

Sun

i agree Sun....there is a good chance the bug catching, bird watching choco eating kid who chucks lead will become a flyfisherman some day....but every kid deserves that piece of his or her life....its cog in the gear that makes us fisherman.
im not in total agreement with your easier statement....i hope your not saying flyfishing is a government regulation to conserve fish...because if thats a fact....i want flyfishing banned and only single spin reels and 15 foot noodle rods be used.
Even float fishing taken to the extreme is a real science.
In the end im not totally against your proposal.
But i fear more people will suffer than benifit....and i mean the people who dont entertain themselfs on the internet and children who fish.
Yes i know people say the kids can change techniques and some will. But the bobber and worm is highly effective in a highly stocked pond. Some families have limited time and very limited budgets.
All i ask is dont Rail road this proposal so it becomes the standard for regulations.....Remember the average joe fisherman please.

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Okay, now I'm freaked out. I was quoting Don Anderson's post.

I don't know if they are a success cuz I don't fish them. The proposal to shut down Police Lake doesn't seem to indicate that one was a success.

sorry Dave.
So is there 17 lakes managed as quality?
I hope its open to icefishing again personally

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

So is there 17 lakes managed as quality?

According to what I found on SRD site anyway. Surprisingly, the link for the page with that info that I posted is now invalid. I'll try again.

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/ManagingPr...t/Default.aspx

Click on "High Quality Stocked Trout Waters that are easy to access" under "Updates"

READILY-ACCESSIBLE STOCKED TROUT WATERS MANAGED FOR HIGH-QUALITY OBJECTIVES
WATERBODY UNIT LIMIT SIZE BAIT CLOSURES
Bullshead PP1 1 > 50 cm Bait Ban Nov 1 - Mar 31
Police (Outpost) PP1 1 > 50 cm Bait Ban Nov 1 - Mar 31
Kerbe's PP2 1 > 50 cm Bait Ban Dec 1 - Mar 31
Muir PP2 1 > 50 cm Bait Ban Nov 1 - Apr 30
Champion ES1 1 > 40 cm Bait Ban Open
Muskiki ES2 1 > 40 cm Bait Ban Open
Beaver ES2 1/1 > 40 cm & < 40 cm Bait Ban Dec 1 - Mar 31
Fiesta ES2 0 N/A Bait Ban Nov 1 - Apr 15
Ironside ES2 0 N/A Bait Ban Nov 1 - Apr 15
Silkstone ES2 1 > 40 cm Bait Ban Open
Lovett ES3 1 > 40 cm Bait Ban Open
Pit 24 ES3 1 > 40 cm Bait Ban Open
Pit 35 ES3 1 > 40 cm Bait Ban Open
Pit 45 ES3 1 > 40 cm Bait Ban Open
Lower Pierre Grey's ES4 1 > 40 cm Bait Ban Open
Figure 8 NB3 5 N/A Bait Allowed Open
Sulphur NB3 5 N/A Bait Allowed Open

[goldscud]

Does anyone know if any of these lakes besides Muir and Beaver have any fish over 20"?
Bullshead...lots of 16-18", few over 20"
Beaver used to have quite a few, but not recently.
Sounds like Muir has some.
Majority of fish at Police are under 20"...maybe after this growing season some fish will get to 20".
Did Kerbe's winterkill again?
Champion is tiny and only gets 300 fish per year.
Catch and release lakes (low stocking) by Rocky should be getting close
What about the others?

[DuckBrat]

17 of lets say 300 Trout fisheries =5.6%, Alberta Wide-661,848 square kilometers

Manitoba's Parkland Area 32,000 Square KM's 20 of 43 fisheries in one small area managed for trophy trout experience. 20/43=46%


Yes I know Manitoba has more lakes but Wow we are lacking of good trout Management.

We definitely have disconnect forming between the demographics as the fear builds towards the Fly fishing community. What's to fear? For the most part this group tends to be more geared toward conservation, sustainability, sharing, C&R, and low impact (less litter) usage. How many fisheries that have been improved had someone with Flyfishing roots involved? Many.

Once again a limited harvest can be had for those that absolutely love the taste of slough trout.


I loved the settling for Hot dogs and a Pilsner comment earlier in this thread because that is exactly what some are all about here. Sad how even good/proven change can make people fearful.

Done.

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by DuckBrat

17 of lets say 300 Trout fisheries =5.6%, Alberta Wide-661,848 square kilometers

Manitoba's Parkland Area 32,000 Square KM's 20 of 43 fisheries in one small area managed for trophy trout experience. 20/43=46%


Yes I know Manitoba has more lakes but Wow we are lacking of good trout Management.

We definitely have disconnect forming between the demographics as the fear builds towards the Fly fishing community. What's to fear? For the most part this group tends to be more geared toward conservation, sustainability, sharing, C&R, and low impact (less litter) usage. How many fisheries that have been improved had someone with Flyfishing roots involved? Many.

Once again a limited harvest can be had for those that absolutely love the taste of slough trout.


I loved the settling for Hot dogs and a Pilsner comment earlier in this thread because that is exactly what some are all about here. Sad how even good/proven change can make people fearful.

Done.

hahahahhaahaha im a flyfisher TOO, with that said most of them break down this way.....60 percent cant catch a big fish if their life depended on it....20 percent are nose in air better than the rest....10 percent wouldnt stop to help a kid learn jack crap about fishing....the last 10 percent are good guys , know their stuff and are approach-able.

I fear no Fly fisherman!!!!!!!!!!!!!
as ive stated many times i fear for the ones who dont entertain themselfs on the internet.....or a 3 year old that sits on the bank waiting for the bobber to dip.

now im informed there are 17 lakes in Alberta under quality regulations.....and not one person has spoken up to say IT WORKED!.....how is that proven?

Im done with this thread if people cant understand simple fact...Im fighting for the traditional graduation of the life of a fisherman.....some people seem to forget their apprenticeship to where they are now.....but ya thats the world now....forget the ones you leave behind because youve reached your destination. Thats a great example

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by DuckBrat

17 of lets say 300 Trout fisheries =5.6%, Alberta Wide-661,848 square kilometers

Manitoba's Parkland Area 32,000 Square KM's 20 of 43 fisheries in one small area managed for trophy trout experience. 20/43=46%

Nice how you only used a small number of lakes in Manitoba verses all of the trout lakes in Alberta in order to come up with a disproportionate percentage.

Shoot, why didn't you just use the 20 lakes that you selected and say 100% of the lakes are trophy lakes? I bet that I can pick an area in Manitoba with 43 lakes that doesn't have a single trout lake, let alone a "quality" one, amongst them. So what? Would that be some sort of proof that in comparison we have too many lakes classed as "quality" fisheries.

Okay, now that I have nailed down the facts for you fellas about how many "quality" lakes there are in Alberta, and it wasn't 2, does anyone want to do a count of the number of C&R lakes and add them to the total number of "quality" lakes?

[DuckBrat]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

forget the ones you leave behind because youve reached your destination.

Sorry but no one is leaving anybody behind by creating quality fisheries that will provide more incredible memories than the 6" inch trout pond.

[DuckBrat]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Nice how you only used a small number of lakes in Manitoba verses all of the trout lakes in Alberta in order to come up with a disproportionate percentage.

Good point but there is a method to my madness. I have fished these areas and have experienced them first hand giving me the ability to accurately comment on them. Had I included the other areas of Manitoba that I have not been able to visit as of yet I would be posting inaccurately. As well it may have also been done to prove a point. If one small area could support that many quality fisheries why do we have so little in our large province. I hope this clarifies, I should have explained that prior, my apologies. It's pretty clear now however. Out.

[Bigtoad]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

According to what I found on SRD site anyway. Surprisingly, the link for the page with that info that I posted is now invalid. I'll try again.

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/ManagingPr...t/Default.aspx

Click on "High Quality Stocked Trout Waters that are easy to access" under "Updates"

READILY-ACCESSIBLE STOCKED TROUT WATERS MANAGED FOR HIGH-QUALITY OBJECTIVES
WATERBODY UNIT LIMIT SIZE BAIT CLOSURES
Bullshead PP1 1 > 50 cm Bait Ban Nov 1 - Mar 31
Police (Outpost) PP1 1 > 50 cm Bait Ban Nov 1 - Mar 31
Kerbe's PP2 1 > 50 cm Bait Ban Dec 1 - Mar 31
Muir PP2 1 > 50 cm Bait Ban Nov 1 - Apr 30
Champion ES1 1 > 40 cm Bait Ban Open
Muskiki ES2 1 > 40 cm Bait Ban Open
Beaver ES2 1/1 > 40 cm & < 40 cm Bait Ban Dec 1 - Mar 31
Fiesta ES2 0 N/A Bait Ban Nov 1 - Apr 15
Ironside ES2 0 N/A Bait Ban Nov 1 - Apr 15
Silkstone ES2 1 > 40 cm Bait Ban Open
Lovett ES3 1 > 40 cm Bait Ban Open
Pit 24 ES3 1 > 40 cm Bait Ban Open
Pit 35 ES3 1 > 40 cm Bait Ban Open
Pit 45 ES3 1 > 40 cm Bait Ban Open
Lower Pierre Grey's ES4 1 > 40 cm Bait Ban Open
Figure 8 NB3 5 N/A Bait Allowed Open
Sulphur NB3 5 N/A Bait Allowed Open

I must have been looking at an older pdf file on the SRD site when I quoted around 10. I think a few have been added just recently. Thanks for the updated info HunterDave.

I know it's been said, but I really like the 1 under 18" reg which none of the above have. Still allows the possibility of biggins' but lets you take a nice pan-sized one home at the end of the day. I realize not all lakes could be done this way but it would be nice if they tried it. I think Beaver would be a great candidate as it is already one over and one under. Just take off the one over. The overall size has been really deteriorating and just tweeking the regs a bit could have fantastic results IMHO. And it's already got special regs so I don't think there would be a huge public outcry like there would be if Strubel was changed.

Cheers.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by DuckBrat

Good point but there is a method to my madness. I have fished these areas and have experienced them first hand giving me the ability to accurately comment on them. Had I included the other areas of Manitoba that I have not been able to visit as of yet I would be posting inaccurately. As well it may have also been done to prove a point. If one small area could support that many quality fisheries why do we have so little in our large province. I hope this clarifies, I should have explained that prior, my apologies. It's pretty clear now however. Out.

So you've fished all 300 trout lakes in Alberta then cuz you commented on them? It still makes no sense to me.

[goldscud]

It's interesting that the number of guys using spin rods is about the same as fly rods at Bullshead. Everyone squealed when the regs were introduced...and then the next year there was 200+ people there on opening morning. Tons of families there with little kids catching some very nice fish. I can't see how anyone was excluded...except those unwilling to change from bait to a non-bait lure for their spinning rod.

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by goldscud

It's interesting that the number of guys using spin rods is about the same as fly rods at Bullshead. Everyone squealed when the regs were introduced...and then the next year there was 200+ people there on opening morning. Tons of families there with little kids catching some very nice fish. I can't see how anyone was excluded...except those unwilling to change from bait to a non-bait lure for their spinning rod.

im not going to argue, im happy your kids are or were really gifted....my kids at 3-4 couldnt cast well or safely....in fact all they could do was reel in.
Dave is doing really well arguing for the B side......I have yet to see 1 person say the quality fishery has worked to their satisfation.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

i agree Sun....there is a good chance the bug catching, bird watching choco eating kid who chucks lead will become a flyfisherman some day....but every kid deserves that piece of his or her life....its cog in the gear that makes us fisherman.
im not in total agreement with your easier statement....i hope your not saying flyfishing is a government regulation to conserve fish...because if thats a fact....i want flyfishing banned and only single spin reels and 15 foot noodle rods be used.
Even float fishing taken to the extreme is a real science.
In the end im not totally against your proposal.
But i fear more people will suffer than benifit....and i mean the people who dont entertain themselfs on the internet and children who fish.
Yes i know people say the kids can change techniques and some will. But the bobber and worm is highly effective in a highly stocked pond. Some families have limited time and very limited budgets.
All i ask is dont Rail road this proposal so it becomes the standard for regulations.....Remember the average joe fisherman please.

LOL

I may seem more of an anomaly to you for a variety of reasons...but as someone who fishes to catch fish...I know for a fact...some days bait fishing catches more...other days fly fishing catches more...and other days spin fishing catches more. I am not say one is better than the other...but from a challenge perspective...matching natures hatches or mimicking natures bugs etc. can be more challenging that eliciting an aggressive response strike on a spinner or spoon etc.

I don't think you should fear a loss of value to recreational fishing for kids nor adults. The chances of catching trout will increase as well as the entertainment value in some larger fish that will fight more. Realize also that this occurs only on those lakes with special regs. The standard put and take lakes will likely always exist if there is a market for it. That market is for guys like you, your neighbour, others on AOF etc. Not for any one guy posting too much.

I am a Joe Fisherman. I am also very versatile in how I fish. Therefore I value that option for everyone. I have my kids using spinning gear and trying fly fishing if they like. I also raise my own mealworms in the basement...so I am not a fanatical bait fisherman, spin fisherman or fly fisherman.

I should say however that flies and a bobber at Bullheads is cheaper than buying worms (unless you dig em up like I do ) Also I would bet flies and bobber catch more than a bait rig in the long run. At least in my years of experience.

The majority of people want better opportunities to catch fish...not make fishing worse. Those that voted on this poll strongly suggests that and I hope F&W takes the time to make fishing better.

[Don Andersen]

Guys,

Sorry the Govt mislead you. Calling a lake Quality is true only if it is. Just proposing a regulation change hardly means that it will happen.

So far, Beaver was a QLF and is no longer.
Ironside still is for the moment - that may be over this summer.
Muir maybe
Fiesta is not and will not become a QLF under present stocking numbers

Others not yet if ever.

Just call a lake a Quality Fishery means that the biologists do what is required to get it to the Quality status and keep it there. So far of the lakes proposed, the record isn't good.


Don

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

LOL

I may seem more of an anomaly to you for a variety of reasons...but as someone who fishes to catch fish...I know for a fact...some days bait fishing catches more...other days fly fishing catches more...and other days spin fishing catches more. I am not say one is better than the other...but from a challenge perspective...matching natures hatches or mimicking natures bugs etc. can be more challenging that eliciting an aggressive response strike on a spinner or spoon etc.

I don't think you should fear a loss of value to recreational fishing for kids nor adults. The chances of catching trout will increase as well as the entertainment value in some larger fish that will fight more. Realize also that this occurs only on those lakes with special regs. The standard put and take lakes will likely always exist if there is a market for it. That market is for guys like you, your neighbour, others on AOF etc. Not for any one guy posting too much.

I am a Joe Fisherman. I am also very versatile in how I fish. Therefore I value that option for everyone. I have my kids using spinning gear and trying fly fishing if they like. I also raise my own mealworms in the basement...so I am not a fanatical bait fisherman, spin fisherman or fly fisherman.

I should say however that flies and a bobber at Bullheads is cheaper than buying worms (unless you dig em up like I do ) Also I would bet flies and bobber catch more than a bait rig in the long run. At least in my years of experience.

The majority of people want better opportunities to catch fish...not make fishing worse. Those that voted on this poll strongly suggests that and I hope F&W takes the time to make fishing better.

lol...back at you

simply answer these questions please....with simple answers...no books please
are the 17 lakes now in place working?
if not -is it not fair to ask until you develope a system that makes those 17 work... you just cant have anymore?
and if you say they are now quality fisheries, how many more do you want?