Cross Bows (i Know.. I Know)

[tallguy]

now lets see somemore votes! tell all your friends, for or against.

[lazy ike]

I don't hunt bow but I can appreciate that there is a big difference between an x-bow and a compound or long bow.

Wmu 312, Sept 5-Nov 30

Looks like 12 weeks of hunting broken with 2 weapon specific seasons. I would love to see the 12 weeks divided equally into 3 possibly 4 weapon specific seasons.

[lazy ike]

I voted No. I want an x-bow only season.

[tallguy]

Websters dictionary defines archery as:

Main Entry: ar·chery
Pronunciation: \ˈär-chə-rē\
Function: noun
Date: 15th century
1 : the art, practice, or skill of shooting with bow and arrow


No mention of said bow being verticle or horizontle, finger released or mechanized

[tallguy]

Originally Posted by lazy ike

I voted No. I want an x-bow only season.

thanks for your vote LI

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by chuck

Because in at least some zones down south, the bow harvest IMO and in the opinion of others is already excessive. This would put more guys in the field during that season. And yes I've hunted and killed with a bow quite a bit.

so the rest get to suffer because of a few selfish?


c'mon....like they aren't going to go on draw anyhow....they are so closely related that the guys are gonna get them whether its allowed or not so get ready for more draws

having said that....put it where it fits for all Alberta's hunters benefit....or leave as is so we can keep a few trophy mule deer hunters down south happy?

duh

[tallguy]

did you vote SC?

If so, thanks!

Ive been kind of torn over this one for the last while. My only beef with putting crossbows in archery season is the learning curve. Any one who bowhunts knows it can be a lot of work from the green to hunting stage. A crossbow well you can pick up and shoot, I know because I've done it.

But you still have to get close with both and there is where I can't decide if a crossbow would be any harm if added to the archery season. I can see a lot of rifle hunters buying a cross bow and then hanging them up after a season or two because getting really close to game isn't always easy when your used to shooting them at 300 yrds.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by ljbb

Well seems to me that i may have struck a nerve with a couple of you. Thanks again. I do share the same passion for hunting as you two, and hope that your cross bow are still used during rifle season. So get your guys togetther form your self and assocation and do the work the same as the aba has done for the past history. Dont just jump in and tell people that you want anew weapon in seasons that they have fought tooth and nail for. Join the aba convience them and other hunters why crossbows should be allowed. Rob go out get your cross bow cock it lean it against atree out side for three minutes set it down. Walk back in your house pick up you compound or recurve pull it back hold it steady for three minutes. Then tell me which one would of been easier to shoot. Jamie where in alberta can you send for your crossbow annual, no where but i can get you a alberta bowhunter assocation memebership. Thanks both of you for making clear that i will keep shooting a compound , because i still do enjoy the challenge.

LJ. exactly what you have said is part of the problem. The Archery season is not the sole domain of the ABA. Its not YOURS and YOURS alone. It belongs to all hunters in the province. Your sentiments are exactly why I think its a very selfish stance.
And for the record, I do not own a X-Bow, but I did Bow Hunt. I doubt if X-bows came into more favor, that I would go out and buy one. I just think it is ludicrous that they are not included in the Bow Season.

Jamie

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by Shrubs

Ive been kind of torn over this one for the last while. My only beef with putting crossbows in archery season is the learning curve. Any one who bowhunts knows it can be a lot of work from the green to hunting stage. A crossbow well you can pick up and shoot, I know because I've done it.

But that's a good thing, isn't it? A green archery hunter, would be much better with a cross bow in his hands that he's only shot a few times, than a regular bow with the same amount of practice, if in fact they are that easy to learn to shoot (I've never shot one) Note: I'm not saying new hunters should do this, but you've got to know it happens.

[nekred]

There would not have been an archery season if the ABA did not lobby for one.

ABA chose to stay with ideals of Pope and Young for the Archery season (Drawn and held by muscular power). The choice was made and crossbows were available then.

If crossbow users want a season then they should lobby for their own. In the long run it would be far more effective than wimping, whining, complaining, debating, arguing etc on an online forum about it. Go do what the ABA did when archery tackle was not legal period!

ABA has made their position clear and have the majority of say about what hapens in archery seasons.

I agree the ABA stance is a selfish stance. But so is the stance for crossbows in the archery season!

[tallguy]

Originally Posted by nekred

There would not have been an archery season if the ABA did not lobby for one.

ABA chose to stay with ideals of Pope and Young for the Archery season (Drawn and held by muscular power). The choice was made and crossbows were available then.

If crossbow users want a season then they should lobby for their own. In the long run it would be far more effective than wimping, whining, complaining, debating, arguing etc on an online forum about it. Go do what the ABA did when archery tackle was not legal period!

ABA has made their position clear and have the majority of say about what hapens in archery seasons.

I agree the ABA stance is a selfish stance. But so is the stance for crossbows in the archery season!

lobbying for change is exactly what im doing here- a petition will follow shortly both E form as well as paper hard copy. Gotta love democracy!

[nekred]

when I said lobby for your own season I don't mean lobby to piggyback onto another season. they are already in an existing season.....The general season.

For any change to happen in the archery season the original stakeholder association has to be involved....ABA.

Or are you thinking of a backroom Open Spaces kind of thing!

What group do you represent. What association have you formed.

Going to SRD with the results of an online poll in a specific website that is privately owned and run is not very credible!.

Petitions are not worth the paper they are written on. However an association of people dedicated to a cause with commitment of their interest in the form of a membership fee however does work. That is how the archery season came about.

Even your flawed online poll because it is a biased audience shows there is significant opposition to the idea!.... Where is the win for the government representative. they stay in power by not ticking people off and that is why when there is an item with more than 35% opposition they are very careful!.

Anyways good luck and fill your boots.

In case you are wondering that has already been done!.... It is nothing new!

[Stinky Coyote]

Yes i voted.

I agree the ABA stance is a selfish stance. But so is the stance for crossbows in the archery season!

Nekred....if selfish for more opportunities that make 100% sense for ALL Albertans including the young, old, and, brokedown? Then yup.....guilty as charged.

There would not have been an archery season if the ABA did not lobby for one.

Nekred again,

Bull. Someone else would have done it by now...sport is way too big. Thanks ABA, it was a good start, but now that we've moved into the next millenium and learned more about the 'snake', we find its not such a bad thing and fits somewhere more beneficial to all hunters in Alberta. Can't blame the ABA for its stance really, old school and selfish, but hey it is 2008 now, it IS the future, we can get with the times....i just know it.

Now back to Chuck again,

This would put more guys in the field during that season.

Chuck, do you realize what your saying here?????

Hunting sports and recruits apparently shrinking and your all for it????? You don't mind to see it gone altogether? Because if we keep thinking selfish like this then we haven't got a hope.

Thats exactly the selfishness supported by the ABA...kind of sickening really. Its just a deer with horns dude...wait for your draw and shoot does in the mean time.....you got a problem with does?....hunting is about more than just a set of horns okay!

And of course that is if the muley buck is already close to going on draw in the zones your talking about then you think the buck won't go on draw if you can keep the crossbow out????? Really????? You believe that??????

[Okotokian]

I'd been under the apparently incorrect impression (which wouldn't be hard for me of course LOL) that a separate bow season was created in part because of safety concerns, which would be exactly the same with cross-bows. Unless you want very short two or three week seasons for every weapon anyone would want to use (bow, cross bow, shotgun, centerfire, slingshot LOL) it seems to be there is going to have to be some overlap, and overlapping bow and cross bow makes the most sense to me. You may be right that they are not the same in terms of skill level, etc., but they are closer than any other two weapons in terms of capability and how you would hunt with them.

I also envy that almost two month season... Wonder how many bow hunters there are vis-a-vis crossbowers or rifle hunters to warrant such a generous allocation?

[Stinky Coyote]

What are the numbers of bowhunters vs gunhunters in this province? Anyone know? I thought it was like 100,000 hunters total and maybe 10,000 bow permits sold? Can anyone verify?

[nekred]

You know the sandbox was built, established and defined by the ABA.

Now everyone wants to change the rules to play in it!

All I am saying is do the work, put in the effort and make your own sandbox!

Instead of trying to unsuccessfully lobby for a change in the rules, why not make a crossbow association and lobby for a crossbow only season. Then when the compound archers want to use your season then you can use the same arguments as turnabout!.... No I would just buy a crossbow!...and hunt in every season I could!...

But then we would have one less thing to debate!......

[Pathfinder76]

Chuck, do you realize what your saying here?????

Hunting sports and recruits apparently shrinking and your all for it????? You don't mind to see it gone altogether? Because if we keep thinking selfish like this then we haven't got a hope.

Thats exactly the selfishness supported by the ABA...kind of sickening really. Its just a deer with horns dude...wait for your draw and shoot does in the mean time.....you got a problem with does?....hunting is about more than just a set of horns okay!

And of course that is if the muley buck is already close to going on draw in the zones your talking about then you think the buck won't go on draw if you can keep the crossbow out????? Really????? You believe that??????

Dude!

I'm talking harvest numbers here, and last time I checked we're trying to manage our wildlife. I wait five years to draw for a Mule Deer because we have decided that that helps with trophy and herd management. So as an example, that zone that delegates 22 mule deer tags for harvest with a rifle but allows general bow hunting is getting pressure and kill numbers from those bowhunters in excess of the delegated rifle tags. When that happens, it needs to go to a draw for bow tags. Adding cross bow hunters to the bow season exacerbates that problem of over harvest in a given zone. Delegate tags through a draw, wait your turn, and hunt with any type of bow you wish.

It has bugger all to do with your above wildly flung rant.

[Rusty P. Bucket]

I voted yes. Crossbows are cool and being able to hunt with one would be an excuse to buy one.

The hell of it is that between the archery, the shotguns, the rifles, the .22's, the pistols (big bore and small)...I would have to quit my job to maintain any proficiency with them all.

I never thought I would see the day when I had too many toys and not enough time to play with them all.

Maybe I should have voted 'no'.

I want to ask a question to those who want to hunt with x bow in bow season. Only to satisfy my own curiosity- not to start anything.

If you want to hunt during the bow season, why don't you hunt with a bow?

Obviously medical and physical reasons don't need to be mentioned, but if you are an able bodied person who is physically capable of shooting a bow, what is the reason you don't?

[ljbb]

Jamie are you a aba memeber. If yes great, you have seen what they have done for bowhunters. If not keep bow hunting and be thankful for the people that have put you in the postition you are in.

[archdlx]

In the late '70's you could find me north of Edgerton, "controlling" the gopher pop. with an old hung pulley bow. Then in the '80's I got a Browning, took 1 mule doe. In the '90's, traded for a Xi Flatliner. WOW what a bow...for the time. Then tore some tendons in my left shoulder. Still have the bows.....would like to go again, but would hate to screw up my shoulder again. It is NOT bad enough to warrant a medical exemption, so I think being able to use a crossbow would be great. My wife can't shoot high power rifles anymore-bursitis-and can't take the cold-I know she would enjoy getting back out to hunt....not just to watch.

sorry for the long .02 cents....
archdlx

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by ljbb

Jamie are you a aba memeber. If yes great, you have seen what they have done for bowhunters. If not keep bow hunting and be thankful for the people that have put you in the postition you are in.

LJ...I have already stated, I dont Bow Hunt anymore. I would hope the ABA is not filled with gready small minded folks. Like I said before keep up with the my way or the highway routine and people like yourself will find they are hunting shoulder to shoulder with rifle hunters, You guys have to open the vault a bit.


Jamie

[ljbb]

Jamie come out to the aba banquet at the end of march and see if we are small minded people. Be ready to have your eyes open to an assocation that promotes youth hunting more then any other group. Lobbyies the goverment for the benifit of all hunting and much more. Jamie i hunt right now shoulder to shoulder with rifle hunter, but i pack archery equipment. I can appreciate your efforts, but you must see where we come from also. It took years to get archery season,s, open zone where the wanted to close them for any hunting. So keep up your efforts for the cross bows and some day you might be the president of tha alberta cross bow assocation. Thanks for the discussion , hope to see ya at the banquet.

Originally Posted by delburnedave

But that's a good thing, isn't it? A green archery hunter, would be much better with a cross bow in his hands that he's only shot a few times, than a regular bow with the same amount of practice, if in fact they are that easy to learn to shoot (I've never shot one) Note: I'm not saying new hunters should do this, but you've got to know it happens.

You know that's a good point but at the same time that maybe boils down to an ethics dilemma more than ability.

Personally I wouldn't care if every hunter in the province took up archery hunting, it would be every hunters right. Every bowhunter knows that archery season is a special time with great oppurtunities, not so skiddish game and worth the time to learn to shoot a bow.

I guess with that I kinda lean towards not having them in archery season but I wouldn't make a big fuss about it if they did either.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by nekred

Instead of trying to unsuccessfully lobby for a change in the rules,

So far.... LOL

I've got a question. Why do bow hunters get a season much longer than rifle hunters? I would guess the latter are by far a much larger group. Seems preferential to me, and yet they don't want to share that time with cross bow hunters. Why am I restricted to a month as a rifle hunter?

[nekred]

Because the harvest rate is lower in bow season so there is a longer season.

That is the crux of the matter more hunters in archery season would result in more harvests which would shorten season.

The fear is that allowing the crossbow in would cause a large influx of hunters transferring to archery season thereby reducing archery seasons.

If people want to use a compound bow which is more in line with the spirit of the original group that lobbied for the season to access the archery season that is fine.

In reality i don't think the crossbow users want to expend the effort necessary to successfully lobby for a season because there is not a strong grassroot support base as there was when the archery seasons were first created.

Muzzle loaders successfully lobbied.

Of course crossbow users could prove me wrong by lobbying for and getting their own season!

[Jamie]

[quote=nekred;121006]
The fear is that allowing the crossbow in would cause a large influx of hunters transferring to archery season thereby reducing archery seasons.


[quote]

WOW..
This really says a bunch.
Talk about closed minded. On the selfish meter this equals at least 110%
God forbid we actually had more people out in the field at all times of the year.

I am hearing that in the coming years, X-Bows will be allowed in YOUR season.. Move over.. Your going to start sharing weather you like it or not.

Jamie

[Jamie]

So let me get this straight.
Some of you BOW guys want the X-Bow guys to go get there own season.

So this is how I see it working if thats what your really want.
Hunting will only be open in Alberta for approx 3 months of the year.
The Bow guys have approx 2 of the 3 months.
Where do you think the extra month is going to come from?

In essence you guys will be giving up approx 1/2 of your time.
Cause if your not willing to share your season, shouldn't the x-Bow guys be of the same mind set? Great way to stay in Biz.....

(note this is about southern Alberta and the generous seasons already in place)

I have been at the ABA web site and read over most of the old threads. There is actually proof that shows the number of deer harvested only increases by 2% when X-bows are used along side Regular bows.

So whats the BIG FRICKIN DEAL?
Its not about the equipment, its about the hunter.
And the more hunters we have in the field throughout the fall and winter months, the better off we all will be.

Jamie

[nekred]

I am not representing any group at all with what I am saying. It is not some bow guys it is me, myself, and I. It is a suggestion that is all.

Why force a closed issue where there is a lot of opposition when there is another avenue that cross bow users are not taking.

A crossbow uses a draw lock device which is not in line with Pope and Young's definition of rules of fair chase which is the spirit of what the Alberta Archery seasons approximate.

This like pushing a rope!.. for both sides! It is the number of hunters in the season which would lead to greater harvest rates not just the tool.

The definition of archery tackle to be used in archery seasin in alberta has been decided a long time ago and crossbows were available then. Nothing has changed in the tool or equipment to suggest a need for a change.

The stats shown are biased and flawed on both sides because they are not applicable in Alberta because the wildlife numbers, hunter numbers, regulations, seasons, and politics are totally different.