are big pike territorial?

[AxeMan]

EZM, relax. I was just funnin with ya. Do what ever makes you feel good. There is no right way.

I have landed lots of big pike (15 pounds plus) on light line but that doesn't matter, and I have lost some too.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Cal

Lol, easy there. EZ, its just two different eras colliding here. The average pike I catch is 30" or less with a few around the 40" mark every year. So IMO 10-15 lb line for me is matching my tackle to my quary, when a big one hits I fight it carefully and with a little luck I can land him. This is how my grandfather, uncles, and pretty much everyone else I knew fished for pike when I was growing up. We still landed some big pike. The new definition of "matching the tackle" seems to be using tackle thats almost overkill for even the largest fish one might catch, I did that for awhile but got over it after a few years. Not saying one way is wrong and the other way isnt, but there is two ways to go about catching pike, even big ones.

Just to put it in perspective, I fished for tuna and snapper in Panama using 50lb line, salmon in Alaska using 30lb line, and striped bass in North Carolina using 15lb test. These fish all get bigger and fight harder than pike, and in none of these locations was my tackle considered light.

Actually, I was trying to be funny sarcastic, but it comes across sarcastic ...... I'm not disagreeing with your logic ........... depending on the situation.

What I should have said is "matching your tackle to your quarry and situation" - to be more precise in making my point.

Your examples, using light gear for tuna and salmon, are in open water. Not near sticks, stumps and debris. You have the option to let the line out if you need to. That's a BIG difference from the scenario I described.

When fishing for pike, often you are in some precarious areas full of potential snags.

My salmon gear is similar ........... certainly not too heavy - but used in open water with few obstructions to snag on.

2 years ago, I was 14 lb braid guy for big pike. After losing two opportunities for a fish of a lifetime, I went to heavier gear - so I have the option to play the fish OR bulldog, direct or move the fish when I must. The key word is must ........ bulldogging is precarious at best.

Simply, by the laws of physics, setting your drag, on 15lb line, to near 75% breaking strength isn't going to do $#!t to keep a big girl from having her way with you, and taking you into the sticks and wrapping you up and then snapping you off.

I have plenty of high quality equipment, plenty of experience, and strong technical knowledge on how to use my drag. So when someone else says (not you) but someone on this post says "learn to use your drag" they are just attempting to elevate themselves and trying to gain "street cred" (credibility among others).

It tells me they actually don't have real street cred ..... maybe never had this situation happen to them....

I derailed this thread like a super star ......... sorry OP ........

Either way ........... I've said my piece, and it won't change everyone's mind.

I'm going to keep doing what makes sense - I was only offering up my honest perspective on this based on real life experience.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by AxeMan

EZM, relax. I was just funnin with ya. Do what ever makes you feel good. There is no right way.

I have landed lots of big pike (15 pounds plus) on light line but that doesn't matter, and I have lost some too.

I too have landed many in the 20's with light line ............. but these two situations have changed me.

Nightmares, bed wettings, ............. omg ........

Anytime I hunting big pigs near snags - I'm going bass masters style ....

Like Babe Buddy Winkleman using 100lb braid on a 2lb bass and setting the hook like he's swinging a sword.

[AxeMan]

Ya snags change the equation all right. My best was a 30 pound sturgeon that I hooked while targeting walleye. 10 pound Trilene XT line on a medium rod and reel. He got out in the current and it was a battle. That was about the limit but I got him in and landed him. My Mom landed a 24 pounder through the ice on 6 pound line and a tiny perch hook.

No doubt though, if you are targeting big pike you might as well gear up a bit. It is not like they care much about the size of the line in most cases.

And, I think big pike are territorial too but I have also seen them team up in pairs or small groups too. Wolf packs.

[EZM]

I would be surprised to find that Big Pike are not territorial.

If a spot has good cover, forage and cool temps (which big girls like) why move? and ....if you are the biggest baddest girl around ........who's going to make you move.

[cube]

[QUOTE=EZM;1838994]I would be surprised to find that Big Pike are not territorial. [QUOTE]

If you look up the paper "Versatility in habitat use by a top aquatic predator,
Esox lucius." you will see from the radio tacking on this Alberta Lake that some are territorial and some just cruise around.


Cheers

[Dust1n]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

Fh7.... When you loose a hook from casting, it ussually derives from a bad knot or abrasions and knicks on the line close to your lure.

I check my line every time I go out. And it breaks farther up from the knot. One of our world record holder breaks tons of lures using light line and big lures.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Fish Hunter7

I check my line every time I go out. And it breaks farther up from the knot. One of our world record holder breaks tons of lures using light line and big lures.

Have you ever concidered that your line may be cutting itself? I know it sounds stupid but if very abrasion resistant line gets burried under itself it can and will cut itself during the cast. I've had this happen with both Spider Wire and Power Pro, never with mono or Fireline, and only on baitcasting reels.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by Fish Hunter7

I check my line every time I go out. And it breaks farther up from the knot. One of our world record holder breaks tons of lures using light line and big lures.

How do you know where its breaking?

If your still having trouble, change your line more often. Or something wrong with your knots.

[Paul C]

Originally Posted by EZM

Sounds like it's time for stronger line, stronger swivels and strong coast lock snaps.

I now run 40lb power pro, and 300lb coast lock swivels and snaps off a 80lb flouro or titanium steel leader.

Upgraded my landing net, went to a medium heavy rod and top of the line reel too.

Only took me a few times to learn that lesson. (I'm not that smart)

I'd suggest big girls are territorial. I either caught two epic fish on the same spot months apart (GPS) or a similar sized fish was in the same spot both times.

Had a decent look the first time, knew she was BIG but was not sure how big she was but her back was wide and the swell was huge. I would have guessed low 30's the first time but not 100% sure. I had a stomach cramp and pressure fart after she got away.



The second time, I got her, after 20 minutes, to the boat, had a good look at her ..........as she swam where she wanted and when she wanted - there was nothing I could do to even turn her. I promptly, thoroughly and explosively $#!t my pants. She destroyed my gear and left me a stinking mess.



See one just provincial record contender get away and it will change your life, and it will change your gear !!!!!!

Sounds like a fairy tale?, fishing story? ............. I wish it was ............trust me on that one.

Ball and Chain fishin and still missed it......interesting...........Wolf Pack Snot Rockets.

[Underwatereyes]

I have had it before were the plastic material on the inside of the last eyelet on my rod has chipped and it started to frey my line on casts and when i would set a hook it would cut my line. soooo frusterating until i figured it out.
Aside from that I have a question. I have caught a couple good size pike this year that have big gouges out of the tail. Would that be them fighting over territory or is it a fish trying to eat them? keeping in mind these are approx. 6-10lb fish.

[rafhone]

Originally Posted by Underwatereyes

I have had it before were the plastic material on the inside of the last eyelet on my rod has chipped and it started to frey my line on casts and when i would set a hook it would cut my line. soooo frusterating until i figured it out.
Aside from that I have a question. I have caught a couple good size pike this year that have big gouges out of the tail. Would that be them fighting over territory or is it a fish trying to eat them? keeping in mind these are approx. 6-10lb fish.

they are notorious for cannibalism. its pike trying to eat pike. small pike hit bait like lightning cause they have to be quick like that. big pike have rule of the lake and go where they please and eat what they please.

i have never seen so many pike with battle scars, as the pike in the newell region. (i'm a transplant from northern sask)

[Cal]

Originally Posted by rafhone

they are notorious for cannibalism. its pike trying to eat pike. small pike hit bait like lightning cause they have to be quick like that. big pike have rule of the lake and go where they please and eat what they please.

i have never seen so many pike with battle scars, as the pike in the newell region. (i'm a transplant from northern sask)

I think they pick up alot of that at spawning time, seems like I see the most fresh wounds on them early in the season. Guess the big girls like it rough, lol. Seriously though, in certain lakes they seem to pick up more scars than others. My theory is that it has to do with the areas where they spawn in those particular lakes.

[rafhone]

Originally Posted by Cal

I think they pick up alot of that at spawning time, seems like I see the most fresh wounds on them early in the season. Guess the big girls like it rough, lol.

... I shoulda been a male pike then... lol

Pike are known to spawn in spring when the water temperature first reaches 9 °C (48 °F).[7] The males are first at the spawning grounds preceding the females for a few weeks. The larger females tend to be earlier than the smaller ones. Mostly a female is followed by several smaller males. When a pair starts slowing down the male will put his tail under the female's body and release it's sperm that is mixed with the eggs due to the tail movement. The spawning consists of a great number of these moves several times a minute and going on for a few hours a day. Every move between 5 and 60 eggs are laid. A female can continue the mating for three days in a row. After the mating the males tend to stay in the area for a few extra weeks.

The color of the sticky eggs is yellow to orange, the diameter is 2.5 to 3 mm. The embryos are 7.5 to 10 mm in length and able to swim after hatching but stay on the bottom for some time. The embryonic stage is 5 to 16 days, dependent on water temperature (at 19°C and 10°C, respectively). Under natural circumstances the survival from free swimming larva to 75 mm pike is around 5 percent. Pike can reach the reproductive stage in a year, females being 30 cm, males 19 cm. Pike normally live 5 to 15 years, but can be as old as 30. Life expectancy and growth are dependent on circumstances. Some Canadian populations have many old slender pikes, Baltic pike grow to great lengths in a short time while eating nutrient rich herring.

source, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_pike#Reproduction

[rafhone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotat...&v=RlvTBNekqfA

this video shows some spawing/pre spawning

[B_Type13X2]

Originally Posted by EZM

Sounds like it's time for stronger line, stronger swivels and strong coast lock snaps.

I now run 40lb power pro, and 300lb coast lock swivels and snaps off a 80lb flouro or titanium steel leader.

Upgraded my landing net, went to a medium heavy rod and top of the line reel too.

Only took me a few times to learn that lesson. (I'm not that smart)

I'd suggest big girls are territorial. I either caught two epic fish on the same spot months apart (GPS) or a similar sized fish was in the same spot both times.

Had a decent look the first time, knew she was BIG but was not sure how big she was but her back was wide and the swell was huge. I would have guessed low 30's the first time but not 100% sure. I had a stomach cramp and pressure fart after she got away.



The second time, I got her, after 20 minutes, to the boat, had a good look at her ..........as she swam where she wanted and when she wanted - there was nothing I could do to even turn her. I promptly, thoroughly and explosively $#!t my pants. She destroyed my gear and left me a stinking mess.



See one just provincial record contender get away and it will change your life, and it will change your gear !!!!!!

Sounds like a fairy tale?, fishing story? ............. I wish it was ............trust me on that one.

I believe you I changed to a 20lb braid 40lb leader all my gear is good now, but being as I am fishing from the river and snags do happen I set a specific budget on my tackle.... I set it at losing anything more then 10$'s an outing and I need to change spots. Big girl hangs out by the rapids so I fish by them, theres a huge log down there that probably has a few grand in tackle on it, some day I'll have to grab a snorkel and do some "mining"

[Cal]

Originally Posted by B_Type13X2

I believe you I changed to a 20lb braid 40lb leader all my gear is good now, but being as I am fishing from the river and snags do happen I set a specific budget on my tackle.... I set it at losing anything more then 10$'s an outing and I need to change spots. Big girl hangs out by the rapids so I fish by them, theres a huge log down there that probably has a few grand in tackle on it, some day I'll have to grab a snorkel and do some "mining"

More than one slow mid August bite has ended with me stripping down to my skivvies and going "treasure hunting". You know what the ironic thing is? You guys typicaly lose more hooks the the massive snarl of 40 lb line drifting around down there than the snag itself. Upping the strength of your line to offset lost tackle is self defeating in the long run. Dont beleive me, go check out that log for yourself at the end of next year.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Cal

More than one slow mid August bite has ended with me stripping down to my skivvies and going "treasure hunting". You know what the ironic thing is? You guys typicaly lose more hooks the the massive snarl of 40 lb line drifting around down there than the snag itself. Upping the strength of your line to offset lost tackle is self defeating in the long run. Dont beleive me, go check out that log for yourself at the end of next year.

So, let me understand this,................ you are suggesting using lighter line to reduce break off in a snag situation?



Your post seems insinuate going to stronger line makes break offs more likely?



I might not be the sharpest tack in the drawer, nor do I have a degree in physics but this doesn't seem to make sense to me.

The basic premise, and key expected outcome, of those of us who move up to heavier line is to reduce break-offs.

Maybe we are doing it wrong.



Instead of using a stronger line, We should go to a 4lb mono when chucking out a $15 Rapala into the sticks?

Maybe I missed the point altogether, in which case, sorry ........... I just can't get my mind around what you are saying.

I guess you are entitled to your opinion - but I can't look myself in the mirror and agree with that train of thought.

[B_Type13X2]

Originally Posted by Cal

More than one slow mid August bite has ended with me stripping down to my skivvies and going "treasure hunting". You know what the ironic thing is? You guys typicaly lose more hooks the the massive snarl of 40 lb line drifting around down there than the snag itself. Upping the strength of your line to offset lost tackle is self defeating in the long run. Dont beleive me, go check out that log for yourself at the end of next year.

Like I said I use a 20lb braid a 40lb leader and I made my own Pickeral rigs out of 40lb mono. If I break off my 5 Of Diamonds or Rap's (I wouldn't be using a pickeral rig with this set up just a leader) it will be at the leader so there would be no rats nest of Line down there just a leader and my spoon/rap.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by EZM

So, let me understand this,................ you are suggesting using lighter line to reduce break off in a snag situation?



Your post seems insinuate going to stronger line makes break offs more likely?



I might not be the sharpest tack in the drawer, nor do I have a degree in physics but this doesn't seem to make sense to me.

The basic premise, and key expected outcome, of those of us who move up to heavier line is to reduce break-offs.

Maybe we are doing it wrong.



Instead of using a stronger line, We should go to a 4lb mono when chucking out a $15 Rapala into the sticks?

Maybe I missed the point altogether, in which case, sorry ........... I just can't get my mind around what you are saying.

I guess you are entitled to your opinion - but I can't look myself in the mirror and agree with that train of thought.

I'm saying that you guys are losing more hooks to the tangles of your own heavy line than you are to the snags themselves. Mono degrades and loses its strength over time, if you get snagged on some half rotten 20 lb mono theres a good chance you can break it. Braid takes far longer, your 40 lb braid just keeps collecting hooks down there for a long time. I dont care what you use but the practice of using high strength superlines when fishing around snags just creates more problems in the long run.

Just a fun fact that most people are not aware of, no point realy.

[Speckle55]

My 32#5 oz female Pike was aged By David Donald Fish Bio Canada at 25 years old and my 29.1/2 inch Brook Trout female was aged at 13 years by him too..

Remember Pre Spawn is the best time and its coming up right now so get out there if want a Hog

Food for Thought

David

[huntsfurfish]

I agree, you see that down here alot. More than a couple of times I have had heavy superlines brought up after a bit of wrangling.