Ignorance is no excuse

Redfrog · #1 07-24-2011, 10:48 PM

So why do we have a hunter education course and not a fisher education course?

BGSH · #2 07-24-2011, 10:49 PM

You dont shoot guns off well fishing, do you?

Lefty-Canuck · #3 07-24-2011, 10:49 PM

Cause anyone can fish....all you need is to fill out a WIN card form....pay for it.....get a number ....buy a fishing license and then a buddy to tell you the rules and supply you with a couple rods....

LC

lone wolf · #4 07-24-2011, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfrog

So why do we have a hunter education course and not a fisher education course?

Excellent question in light of a (very) recent post. It would make a lot of sense, particularly for recent immigrants who are not fluent in either of our official languages.

chubbdarter · #5 07-24-2011, 10:54 PM

Years ago, my dad gave some american birdhunters permission to hunt partridge on our land because there was no equipment in the fields.
They stopped by on their way out to thank dad and show us their bounty

Ive never in my life seen a trunk full of dead Meadow Larks

BeeGuy · #6 07-24-2011, 10:58 PM

never killed a man with a errant treble hook.

I'd rather break the rules than pay for a fishing course.

There are far too many fees as it is.

I recall fishing the NW one time and realized I had 2 licenses, 4 tags, plus classified tickets.

Enough is enough.

If all the major fishing access points in AB were clearly posted with reg's and fine rates$$, it would help greatly.

We shouldn't need a course in order to understand legislation. It should be easily accessible and comprehend-able for every Canadian, regardless of language.

Bzzz

Lefty-Canuck · #7 07-24-2011, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

never killed a man with a errant treble hook.
he said education course not a "rod registry"

I'd rather break the rules than pay for a fishing course.
No wonder you always stick up for poachers, I understand now

There are far too many fees as it is.
Who is going to pay for all your fancy signs at EVERY lake access point? Fishing is a "pay to play" activity....you don't pay then don't play

I recall fishing the NW one time and realized I had 2 licenses, 4 tags, plus classified tickets.
If you want to fish....then pay for and hold what ever docs you need to do it

Enough is enough.
Yes I have had enough of poaching, and people using lame excuses to try to get off

If all the major fishing access points in AB were clearly posted with reg's and fine rates$$, it would help greatly.
Again who pays for this???

We shouldn't need a course in order to understand legislation. It should be easily accessible and comprehend-able for every Canadian, regardless of language.
Clearly its needed cause people are using "no speaking english" as an excuse for breaking the rules we all need to follow

Bzzz

wow....

LC

Redfrog · #8 07-24-2011, 11:08 PM

We have about one third less officers in the field today than we had 15 years ago. We also have a few more people in the province and more of them fishing.
Would it help ease the work load if a course and test were required to get a fishing license?

I hate more rules and regs more than anyone I know, but there sure seems to be a lot regs broken.

bigbuck19 · #9 07-24-2011, 11:10 PM

They hand you a book of rules when you get your fishing license, pretty straightforward. Tells you everything you need to know to avoid fines.

slough shark · #10 07-24-2011, 11:10 PM

there is such a course available through AHEIA it just isn't mandatory to do to get a fishing license, in my mind rightly so as the last thing we need is more regulation and hoops to jump though in order to do the things we love. that being said I wish that f&w would have a lot more jurisdiction and be able to punish those that are breaking the rules so there would be more actual consequences for poaching etc...

BGAngler · #11 07-24-2011, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbuck19

They hand you a book of rules when you get your fishing license, pretty straightforward. Tells you everything you need to know to avoid fines.

I agree with this. Takes 5 minutes to read through it all. Not really complicated..

Crush barb. Check.
3 hook max. Check.
One line in at a time. Check.
Limit on types of fish? Check.
Bait allowed? Check.

Phew. Tough stuff.

HunterDave · #12 07-24-2011, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Would it help ease the work load if a course and test were required to get a fishing license?

No, because if someone is going to break the rules a hundred courses won't stop them from doing it. Easing the workload is why there's a RAP. There are more eyes and ears out there than the government could ever afford.

Also, ignorance is no excuse..........oh, you already said that.

C Taylor · #13 07-24-2011, 11:18 PM

That and a trailer backing up test. To go with the boating exam

chubbdarter · #14 07-24-2011, 11:20 PM

sadly i fear this
gun registry wont make criminals register guns
A fishing course wont make a poacher stop poaching.....most poaching is done by a hardened poacher not a fisherman that is ignorant to the law. We only see the ignorant fisherman because they fish in public.......real damaging poachers are like ghosts.

Keho is a prime example...ive tryed to do what i can, Most have not!!!

Lefty-Canuck · #15 07-24-2011, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Taylor

That and a trailer backing up test. To go with the boating exam

^^^^
X2.....like parallel parking is for a drivers exam....

LC

chubbdarter · #16 07-24-2011, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c taylor

that and a trailer backing up test. To go with the boating exam

yes please

Lefty-Canuck · #17 07-24-2011, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

sadly i fear this
gun registry wont make criminals register guns
A fishing course wont make a poacher stop poaching.....most poaching is done by a hardened poacher not a fisherman that is ignorant to the law. We only see the ignorant fisherman because they fish in public.......real damaging poachers are like ghosts.

Keho is a prime example...ive tryed to do what i can, Most have not!!!

....multiply ignorance by a few hundred or thousand....you have more than a few hardened poachers "made up for"....

LC

chubbdarter · #18 07-24-2011, 11:25 PM

nope..i disagree..you have obviously have not drug in the gill nets.
im done..thats all i have to say

Lefty-Canuck · #19 07-24-2011, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

nope..i disagree..you have obviously have not drug in the gill nets.
im done..thats all i have to say

You are right I haven't and I know what you are getting at....but you have to understand a bunch of "un-intentional" poachers do damage as well....

LC

matt04 · #20 07-24-2011, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Taylor

That and a trailer backing up test. To go with the boating exam

true

matt04 · #21 07-24-2011, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

You are right I haven't and I know what you are getting at....but you have to understand a bunch of "un-intentional" poachers do damage as well....

LC

agree

HunterDave · #22 07-24-2011, 11:41 PM

Okay, outdoors wise, so far we have a Hunter's Education course, Firearms Handling course (PAL) and soon to be here Boat Operator course.....just wait for it. NOW we should have mandatory Fishing course, Snowmobile course, ATV course, Camping course, Hiking course, Outdoors Etiquette course (including how to poop in the bush & spit seeds), Using Horses for Hunting course, Pack Dog Hunting course (Only if it's new but it can be incorporated into the Hunter Ed for all the people that will never hunt with them to know about) etc, etc, etc. There's gotta be more courses that we need but those are the only ones that I can think of right offhand!

I think that everyone needs to take a breath and think about the route that we are going here......

Okay..........Why do we need a Fishing course again?

bigbuck19 · #23 07-24-2011, 11:51 PM

How about capital punishment?

BGAngler · #24 07-24-2011, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbuck19

How about capital punishment?

Especially for spitting seeds. I'd be the first on the chopping block.

HunterDave · #25 07-25-2011, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbuck19

How about capital punishment?

You might be onto something there. If the crime isn't worth the time people will stop doing it and educate themselves if the consequences were severe enough. HMMMMMMMM.......First to inform people of the more severe consequences..........I know.......have a course!

alacringa · #26 07-25-2011, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

^^^^
X2.....like parallel parking is for a drivers exam....

LC

Yeah...you obviously haven't spent much time watching people "parallel park" in downtown Calgary. Way too many idiots go back and forth in the same place, 439 times, and still end up parking 4 feet from the curb and impeding the flow traffic. It doesn't work.

baitfisher83 · #27 07-25-2011, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

^^^^
X2.....like parallel parking is for a drivers exam....

LC

X3, I've only done it once and I can back a trailer up better than most of the *****s who just bomb down the launch.

BeeGuy · #28 07-25-2011, 12:20 AM

There is a big difference between someone with a barbed hook and someone who is netting a dozen king salmon or gill netting on a spawning ground.

The only thing they have in common is contravention of legislation. They are not the same, nor should they be disciplined in the same manner.

I fish from shore, a lot. I pick up piles of gear from shore that's been lost on snags, and 90% of it is barbed.

The conceptual extremism here is useless.

Perhaps our cars should issue us a $1000 fine every time we break the speed limit?

Everything within reason, no?

Christofficer · #29 07-25-2011, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

sadly i fear this
gun registry wont make criminals register guns
A fishing course wont make a poacher stop poaching.....most poaching is done by a hardened poacher not a fisherman that is ignorant to the law.

Well said. I had this idea or something similar some time ago, I had time to think about it. This post is exactly my thoughts. But the problem is, our cities are getting bigger and bigger.

I talked to a conservation officer once about poachers. He said their main focus is commercial fishing. And I'd have to say that the most worrying poachers are the ones who are taking fish in large numbers, or the ones who are never seen at all. Our fishieries do very well in alberta considering how many bodies of water we only have and how many people are in this province.

Braun · #30 07-25-2011, 01:50 AM

a couple things here. we are talking an education course. no this will not stop poachers. a course would be completely unrelated to stopping poaching. so just forget about it. i would support a course 100%. not for the people who claim ignorance to the regs. because that is a cop out. but the course would be great for many reasons:

1. educating people on how delicate a fishery is. one small tilt and the entire ecosystem could go unbalanced and collapse. The average joe or weekend warrior do not fully understand this. we outdoorsmen do. things can be taught about the balanceof an ecosystem and how long it takes for a fishery to recover. ect. hell this would probably be benificial because it actually might teach them something useful to be more successful.

2. proper handling of fish. IMO improper handling of fish is never resulted from ignorance. Its just a plain and simple lack of education. I look at when I first started to go out and fish by myself. I will admit that I could look back and say with certainty that there were some instances where i improperly handled a fish. and that was because i just didnt know better. I do now. but i taught myself to fish and had to learn without anyone teaching me.

3. alberta is widely know for contradicting or ambiguous regs. I am not saying that the course should read out all of the regs to the attendees. but how about a period of open discussion where some regs can be discussed to ensure that any questions about them be answered.

4. how to properly, acurately, and most effectively report a poacher and how the RAP program works after a call is made.

5. Overall, it will get the people with an actual conscious to think critically of their own actions while on the water. Understand better the footprint they can leave on an ecosystem. If all was right in the world, this would be an unnecessary step. but you know what, not everyone is an "outdoorsmen" like ourselves. Not that they intend harm. but just dont know better. True it is upto the individual to educate themselves. Which is good and thats the way it should be. but a person could still educate themselves on how to follow the rules. but that doesnt mean they fully comprehend the consequences of their presence. And we cant just say " well they should" because it is a common occurance in our daily lives. I can guarantee that every single one of you has had more than one occurrance in your life where you said to yourself " oh i never looked at it that way" or "hmm i didnt consider that" be it speaking something to your wife without thinking through your words or a slip up at work. It happens. A educational course would be a PRO ACTIVE step to educate people further before they go on the water.

Poaching is a completely separate issue. However, the course could also be used as a scare tactic for people who take the rules lightly. List the fines, tell people some stories. Take the punishment seriously. maybe they might be more encouraging of friends to follow the regs.