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  #61  
Old 12-19-2019, 10:24 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Guys, I guess it is very simple, Fur Buyers pay "wholesale or black book" prices for our furs. When you send to auction you realize "Retail prices" less drumming and commission. A Fur buyer needs to have a return for his time and expenses plus risk of market changing before he sells the skins. Also cost of capital to buy the fur. My thoughts are high capital costs probably put NAFA under as CIBC no longer wanted to share the risk with them.
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  #62  
Old 12-19-2019, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf View Post
Guys, I guess it is very simple, Fur Buyers pay "wholesale or black book" prices for our furs. When you send to auction you realize "Retail prices" less drumming and commission. A Fur buyer needs to have a return for his time and expenses plus risk of market changing before he sells the skins. Also cost of capital to buy the fur. My thoughts are high capital costs probably put NAFA under as CIBC no longer wanted to share the risk with them.
Much as we all hate the banks CIBC had nothing to do with NAFA going under. The deferred funds deal with the mink producers was the key to the whole sordid mess.
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  #63  
Old 12-19-2019, 09:57 PM
pikeslayer22 pikeslayer22 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by paulyisit73 View Post
guess my page needed to refresh... I see some sold to Groenewold. I just took 10 to see what I could get. Made out ok I guess. Kinda expected a bit more after hearing all the talk of 130 average ppl should be getting, and all the hype about how much fur everyone still wants and how high the prices are gonna be this year, and we even want your early fur...
I wanted an education on how they grade because I am kinda new and unaware. They showed me what they wanted and why mine were graded the way they were. After that I could kind of see why I got what I got.
2 sold for 150
4 sold at 125
3 sold at 100
1 sold at 70
I am headed to edmonton friday, I will bring another 10 or 15 to Haliford and see what they offer me. Those ones probably aren't as good as the ones I sold to
Groenwold so will be interesting to see what happens there. Then depending on what happens with Haliford, I will bring the next batch to auction. I brought 5 furs for my buddy and they didn't even want them. And after my education from them I can see why, but he was ****ed... he said he averaged 60 to 80 at auction for the exact same thing... so who knows
Halfords only has a buyer in on Wednesday’s...found that out today
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  #64  
Old 12-19-2019, 11:38 PM
mrbgamehunter mrbgamehunter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by pikeslayer22 View Post
Halfords only has a buyer in on Wednesday’s...found that out today
He also pays cash for furs.
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  #65  
Old 12-20-2019, 12:04 PM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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209, You seem to have some detailed info on NAFA failure. Just wondering if you can explain the "Deffered funds" with mink farmers putting under a 350 year Hudson Bay spin off company for us trappers.
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  #66  
Old 12-20-2019, 12:11 PM
kingrat kingrat is offline
 
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209, You seem to have some detailed info on NAFA failure. Just wondering if you can explain the "Deffered funds" with mink farmers putting under a 350 year Hudson Bay spin off company for us trappers.
pretty sure thats been discussed and explained many times in the past month. Long story short nafa gives mink ranchers huge loans to finish off mink with expectation that they get paid back plus interest once the mink sell. Mink sell for less than what is owed, ranchers declare bankruptcies and nafa dont get paid. Eventually the bank says no thanks to much risk to loan you money or allow a line of credit etc and boom here we are. 100% not cibc fault. Why do you think no other bank or lender would touch them.

Last edited by kingrat; 12-20-2019 at 12:17 PM.
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  #67  
Old 12-20-2019, 12:20 PM
kingrat kingrat is offline
 
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off topic but ask yourselves when mink were ave over 100 bucks and wild fur was booming 5 years ago for those few years, what did nafa do with the millions in revenue from commission they earned?
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  #68  
Old 12-20-2019, 12:49 PM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Kingrat, appears to be a reasonable explanation. However their is a half dozen mink ranchers that are secured Creditors owed millions on the list of $50 million outstanding creditors including us trappers.
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  #69  
Old 12-20-2019, 06:39 PM
kingrat kingrat is offline
 
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Ya nafa is or was owned like 75% by mink ranchers.
Not all ranchers took loans obviously and some were doing ok or in a position to invest money. Now theres rumours of some mink ranchers starting up another auction.
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  #70  
Old 12-23-2019, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
pretty sure thats been discussed and explained many times in the past month. Long story short nafa gives mink ranchers huge loans to finish off mink with expectation that they get paid back plus interest once the mink sell. Mink sell for less than what is owed, ranchers declare bankruptcies and nafa dont get paid. Eventually the bank says no thanks to much risk to loan you money or allow a line of credit etc and boom here we are. 100% not cibc fault. Why do you think no other bank or lender would touch them.
No, That was not the whole story the big truth actually it looks on the surface to be shady but I'm not an expert. When mink were so high the mink farmers only took a small amount of their earnings and left the rest with NAFA in a deferred funds account that was to pay 5%. Why this was done is the purview of much smarter men than me, perhaps tax mitigation? Of course $100 mink were unsustainable and in the rout that followed the final hammer dropped in September when the two largest mink farmers pulled 30 million they were owed out draining the deferred funds account. The rest went down the drain in a hurry. Much of NAFA's spending in China and Asia becomes understandable when viewed through the lens that they had to promote the "Walmart Fur" model. china was the only place to sell huge amounts of ranched fur in a market that didn't care what fur it was or where it came from.

More interesting is the current FIOD the Netherlands equivalent of the IRS investigating undeclared mink sales and bank accounts related to a large international fur auction.
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  #71  
Old 12-23-2019, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf View Post
Kingrat, appears to be a reasonable explanation. However their is a half dozen mink ranchers that are secured Creditors owed millions on the list of $50 million outstanding creditors including us trappers.
IFF is owed about 2.4 million euro and that isn't on the list. There is a huge amount of money not yet on that list!

There is something trying to be arranged as far as the fur still being held by NAFA. Perhaps good news but I'm not at liberty to discuss it.
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  #72  
Old 12-23-2019, 09:06 AM
Marty S Marty S is offline
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Definitely a very intricate/complex plot/storeyline. Far more than what appears on the surface.
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  #73  
Old 12-26-2019, 03:15 PM
Tfng Tfng is offline
 
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Where are the buying routes and dates posted? I’m having difficulty locating them.
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  #74  
Old 12-27-2019, 07:03 AM
Marty S Marty S is offline
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GFW keeps their website updated. They now have Canada included on their map resource.

Watch for updated locations in the next few days. In particular Alberta.

Also find notices on the Canadian Coyote Company forum here:
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/forum...prune=-1&f=135

Also can watch on my old website: martysenneker.com
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  #75  
Old 12-30-2019, 12:42 AM
Marty S Marty S is offline
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Updated Buying Location List:
(dates to follow, am finalizing buying locations over holidays)

Hays - Of course anytime I am available. Do call and set up a time. Bear in mind there is no panic to get your fur done up if bringing to my Hays location. You have time, can come regularly. Do bear in mind, we will be on a buying rampage the week of January 12 thru 19, possibly 20.

Stavely

Calgary

Drayton Valley

Barrhead

Castor

Wainwright - Provost - Hughenden - Czar Area

Bonnyville - St Paul Area

Red Deer Valley Center Hall

Minburn - Vermillion Area - Minburn Agriculture Center

Athabasca Jan 18 - Amber Valley Hall

Debolte - Jan 19 Goodwin Hall


Also, for the non-skinners, I will be buying whole carcass coyotes at each location. Bring lots, my most excellent skinner is hungry for work!
No lice coyotes, mange, trash

Last edited by Marty S; 12-30-2019 at 12:47 AM.
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  #76  
Old 12-31-2019, 01:45 PM
Marty S Marty S is offline
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Jan 9 – LETHBRIDGE AB – Location TBA
Begins at 2:00 PM

Jan 12 – STAVELY AB – Stavely Community Center
8:00 AM to 12:00 PM – Located in town of Stavely

Jan 12 – CALGARY/STRATHMORE AB – Cheadle Hall
2:30 PM to 7:00 PM – 5 miles west of Strathmore, 1.5 miles south

Jan 13 – DRAYTON VALLEY AB – Buck Creek Hall
9:00 AM to 1:00 PM – 2 miles East of D.V. on Hwy 39, then 7.5 miles South on RR 71

Jan 13 – BARRHEAD AB – Glenreagh Hall
2:30 PM to 7:30 PM – 1 mile north Hwy 18, then 1 mile west on Hwy 33

Jan 14 – BONNYVILLE AB – Eastbourne Community Hall
9:00 AM – 7:00 PM – 9 miles SW of Bonnyville on Hwy 28

JAN 15 – HAYS AB – Canadian Coyote Company HQ
9:00 AM to 8:00 PM- #14 Central Avenue South

JAN 16 - RED DEER AB Valley Center Community Hall
10:00 AM to 7:00 PM - Located 7 miles east of Red Deer on Hwy 595, 1 mile north

Jan 17 – CZAR/HUGHENDEN AB
9:00 AM – 1:00 PM – Location TBA

JAN 17 – MINBURN AB – Minburn Ag Society Hall
2:30 AM to 7:00 PM - Located in village of Minburn


JAN 18 – ATHABASCA AB – Amber Valley Hall
8:30 AM to 7:00 PM – Located 13 miles East of Athabasca on Hwy 55

JAN 19 – DEBOLTE AB – Goodwin Hall
8:00 AM to 7:00 PM – Located ½ mile East of Trapper Gord’s Trading Post , then ½ mile South
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  #77  
Old 01-01-2020, 06:19 PM
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Thanks Marty, are you gonna be in barrhead on the 13?
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  #78  
Old 01-10-2020, 12:23 AM
Marty S Marty S is offline
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Ill be at all of them, as well Howard Trager.

Very interesting fellow Howard. He is third generation in the fur business, likely the most knowledgeable man in the entire wild fur industry, if not that then definitely amongst the most elite. He and his father Sam are from Montreal, both fur brokers. Anybody who wants to learn more in depth about the fur industry, Howard is the man. The man buys an obscene amount of fur annually, was extremely busy at NAFA each and every sale, grading goods and then buying mass amounts of fur in the buying room for his many customers.
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  #79  
Old 01-10-2020, 07:54 AM
wolfboy wolfboy is offline
 
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Default Were did you meet in lethbridge

How was the fur buying in lethbridge did you pick up some decent skins
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  #80  
Old 01-11-2020, 03:59 PM
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PCP_ECOM PCP_ECOM is offline
 
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Default Southern Alberta Beauties

Nice bunch of yotes right there
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  #81  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:20 AM
Marty S Marty S is offline
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Update: Provost/Czar/Hughenden/Wainwright Area

Golden Circle Hall

Time 9:00 AM to 1:00 PM
Apparently next door to the Community Hall. Trying to get in range of numerous communities.



Lethbridge was good, bought a bunch, happy customers. Bought all except 2 small batches that had significant damage. We don’t pay big money for second or third rate goods, but will take them at market value as well.

On that note... trapper tip... avoidable damage... if you tear a bum or have a pelvic rip from bullet damage, always keep the skin complete and make the repair. Do NOT trim off pieces of skin instead of repairing. Incomplete skins are damaged skins. Lucky for the dudes there are people that don’t like grading and buy on averages. But the market is changing rapidly by people who have the customers, and of those people those who do their customers well under a very scrutinizing eye will be in the game long term, those who do not will likely have to find new customers. But who knows in this new post-NAFA fur world.

It’s going to take this season to end and the end users analyzing the goods people bought for them. The old tricks of yesteryear might not stand without good ole NAFA in the game.

I do look forward to hearing how this coyote season shakes out... and all the other goods. Good luck to everybody. I believe we will see FHA step up and fix a lot of the long term problems that plagued the industry, I hope so. I expect that in this new fur world the fur will sell, I suspect the goods will not be over protected any longer, and goods that can freely move into the market make end users money that they can flip and come back for more and more. Good chance we will see much sold at any offer, undoubtably cheap, lots of stuff but the good thing is it would/will kick start the wild fur that has been stagnating for so long.
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  #82  
Old 01-13-2020, 03:56 PM
204ruger 204ruger is offline
 
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Question for the guys that sold with groenwald the first go round and we’re happy , were you equally as happy with the prices the second go round?
Just curious I never got to make it to second time here in Saskatoon but went to the first in clavet and was happy.
Considering you believe you had same quality of fur in second as u did the first time.
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  #83  
Old 01-13-2020, 05:18 PM
trigger7mm trigger7mm is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 204ruger View Post
Question for the guys that sold with groenwald the first go round and we’re happy , were you equally as happy with the prices the second go round?
Just curious I never got to make it to second time here in Saskatoon but went to the first in clavet and was happy.
Considering you believe you had same quality of fur in second as u did the first time.
Got exactly the same average for my coyotes on the second round as I did on the first. I was happy with the results.
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  #84  
Old 01-19-2020, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 204ruger View Post
Question for the guys that sold with groenwald the first go round and we’re happy , were you equally as happy with the prices the second go round?
Just curious I never got to make it to second time here in Saskatoon but went to the first in clavet and was happy.
Considering you believe you had same quality of fur in second as u did the first time.
I wasn’t overly happy with the prices on the second round. I done better on my dogs back in December with early coyotes then I done with December/January coyotes. Most likely try out other buyers in the future for my coyotes. My other furs went at a decent price.
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  #85  
Old 01-20-2020, 06:44 PM
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Nice bunch of yotes right there
Just went for $132 avg
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  #86  
Old 01-21-2020, 01:31 PM
Fur Harvesters Auction Fur Harvesters Auction is offline
 
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https://www.furharvesters.com/pdf/pressreleaseJAN20.pdf
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  #87  
Old 01-24-2020, 10:42 AM
Marty S Marty S is offline
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Them country dealers sure went bonkers eh?

The games this year, wow! Looks like Boots has some very big plans. I sure hope he doesn't ruin the whole coyote market with his gameplay... oh wait, if I was a betting man my guess is he'll have help! Then I hope others don't ruin it with their past apathetic attitudes and negligence towards market needs.

So intriguing watching things unfold. I knew it was going to be an interesting year and that many folks would have plans, some big, some small. Some successful plays, while others fail, and yet other outcomes yet to be seen.

It is a common thing for things to get extremely strong $$$ exactly before a major fall. Just look at the ranch mink. Coyotes a complete different game but the danger in the coyote going so strong is the fact that those users working tight profit margins will be out in the cold and then we lose potential otherwise long term customers. Fine and dandy if the people who accept the hard upward push do so long term but if they are suddenly out in the cold themselves for some reason then what do we have left? Well definitely one mass customer but where are we now without competition in the marketplace?

It can so easily go bad.

If you are a small buyer operating on your own cash, BEWARE!!!... the fur market has broken many, many people/companies and will continue to do so so long as it exists! DO NOT BUY FUR ON PERSONAL CREDIT AT THIS TIME!!! Do learn from the lessons of past markets over past decades from people who have been there and done that.

But when all's said and done... GO FUR MARKET!!! GO FHA!!! GO COUNTRY DEALERS!!! I hope it's a win for all!

Give me a $200 coyote average and I am a full time trapper.... full time trapper seeking a 1500 coyote season!!! Probly!
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  #88  
Old 01-24-2020, 10:46 AM
kingrat kingrat is offline
 
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Your a buyer for the biggest fur buyer in the world Marty.
Pay yourself a 200 dollar ave on your own coyotes and call it bonkers.in all seriousness how many dogs do you very roughly estimate that the groeny company has bought in the west so far? Any idea or are you allowed to say
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  #89  
Old 01-24-2020, 10:50 AM
kingrat kingrat is offline
 
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And who the hell is boots and what's he doing?
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  #90  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:12 PM
Marty S Marty S is offline
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Boots is a fictional charectar. All above langauge fictional... science fiction... based totally on my personal speculation. Zero fact... is the fat man right???

Give Bryce a call and ask him if he could post his numbers for you. He’d be the best guy to ask. Im sure he’ll get right on it for you. Hes a very nice guy

Last edited by Marty S; 01-24-2020 at 12:19 PM.
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