Pillar bedding

[pikergolf]

I will be pillar bedding a Boyd's stock. I am thinking 1/4 in black pipe would make a better bedding material than the aluminum pillars a guy can buy. My thinking is that aluminum expands and shrinks a lot with weather change. My action screws are 6mm, so I will have to open the pipe up a little bit. Thoughts?

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

I will be pillar bedding a Boyd's stock. I am thinking 1/4 in black pipe would make a better bedding material than the aluminum pillars a guy can buy. My thinking is that aluminum expands and shrinks a lot with weather change. My action screws are 6mm, so I will have to open the pipe up a little bit. Thoughts?

The propensity for ferrous metals to rust and corrode makes the idea a non starter for myself.

Personally I’ve never been a big metal pillar bedding fan. I’ll sooner over bore the screw holes, and essentially allow the epoxy to play the part of the pillar.

[elkhunter11]

I would only use non corrosive material , that is softer than the action that it will butt up against.

[pikergolf]

Jeeze, I never considered rust. thanks. What about SS steel tubing? Dick will the epoxy stand the torque of the action screws?

[Triggerfish]

I used brass, right or wrong not sure

[Dean2]

I quit making and installing metal sleeve pillars about 20 years ago. Like Dick,I use Devcon to make the pillars too. It gives you a perfect fit every time, doesn't shrink or rust, easy to work with and will take enough torque to strip most action screws. You also get the tang and recoil lug area bedded at the same time.

[Pathfinder76]

I would also be inclined to pour the pillars.

[pikergolf]

So can someone give me a run down of how to pour the pillars without everything running out the bottom?

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Jeeze, I never considered rust. thanks. What about SS steel tubing? Dick will the epoxy stand the torque of the action screws?

See what Dean wrote.

I’ve had to remove a few pillars for fellows over the years, they had come loose over time. Fixed up with “poured pillars”, taint heard back from those gents, it’s been over 10 years or so.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

So can someone give me a run down of how to pour the pillars without everything running out the bottom?

I’ll use a bit of putty style epoxy like Tech-Steel to build the floor plate side of the equation, then pour the runnier epoxy down the screw hole.
Make sure you are generous with the release agent, and use a copious amount of masking tape, and Play-Doah (duct-seal)as a dam to keep the epoxy from going where you don’t want it.
Sometimes depending on the job, things have to be done in stages, like setting the putty epoxy, then after that sets, doing the poured epoxy.

[Dean2]

I drill out the stock holes a bit, put release agent, Carnuba wax, on the action screws, action threads, floor plate and the whole action, inside and out, recoil lug and any other metal part Devcon may contact. I put the Devcon into the top of the stock, recoil lug and tang and let it run down into the action holes, Screw in the screws and floor pate and let it set for 24 hours. Just barely crack the screws and re tighten after 8 hours.

If you want to discuss in detail PM me your phone number and I would be happy to walk you through any questions. If you are in Edmonton or close I would be willing to help you do the first one. Once you see it, it is pretty easy.

[andy1]

Lots of recommendations on poured pillars which no one mentions shrinkage or the instability potential if improperly mixed or old components. Metal pillars properly fitted are fool proof. Bush league do it yourselfers pour...any monkey can do it. Just note how they do not talk about shrinkage rates........lol. so many self proclaimed experts....lol

[Pathfinder76]

We can’t help your inability to properly mix good epoxy

[fps plus]

Shrinkage was discussed on Seinfeld

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by andy1

Lots of recommendations on poured pillars which no one mentions shrinkage or the instability potential if improperly mixed or old components. Metal pillars properly fitted are fool proof. Bush league do it yourselfers pour...any monkey can do it. Just note how they do not talk about shrinkage rates........lol. so many self proclaimed experts....lol

If u don't know what you are talking about please don't call others uninformed. The shrinkage on Devcon metal is .05% . You have to be REALLY good at fitting metal pillars to get a fit that tight, exactly even front and back, and very few guys have a milling machine and the gear to set metal pillars properly.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by andy1

Lots of recommendations on poured pillars which no one mentions shrinkage or the instability potential if improperly mixed or old components. Metal pillars properly fitted are fool proof. Bush league do it yourselfers pour...any monkey can do it. Just note how they do not talk about shrinkage rates........lol. so many self proclaimed experts....lol

Yes, and noted gunsmith of years gone by, Bob Wollack mentioned in a book of his that anything but a properly imletted ,chiseled put gun stock was the mark of a poor craftsman if they had to resort to epoxy!
I wonder if he would make that same statement today ?
Cat

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by andy1

Lots of recommendations on poured pillars which no one mentions shrinkage or the instability potential if improperly mixed or old components. Metal pillars properly fitted are fool proof. Bush league do it yourselfers pour...any monkey can do it. Just note how they do not talk about shrinkage rates........lol. so many self proclaimed experts....lol

LOL Bush league.....too funny. Let's see some of your metal pillar jobs...who you calling a monkey? If you cant mix devcon I guess you belong in the monkey catagory. I wouldn't insult the average guy of not being able to mix epoxy. But maybe I'm just a monkey cause I have been bedding and pouring pillars for the last ten years or so. None of my rifles have needed to be touched since nor the 50 or so others I have done

[sns2]

Originally Posted by andy1

Lots of recommendations on poured pillars which no one mentions shrinkage or the instability potential if improperly mixed or old components. Metal pillars properly fitted are fool proof. Bush league do it yourselfers pour...any monkey can do it. Just note how they do not talk about shrinkage rates........lol. so many self proclaimed experts....lol

Don't be ignorant or you may find yourself on the sidelines

[DLab]

Originally Posted by sns2

Don't be ignorant or you may find yourself on the sidelines

He may already be ignorant,so I'll take rude and insulting for a $1,000.00 Alex.

[andy1]

Under ideal conditions:

Devcon al. Compressive strength (as an example) 2600/2700 psi.

Shrinkage ~0.0009" over 1 " in ideal conditions.

Shrinkage over time - no curves present. I.e. stability?

Check out the properties of metals. No air entrapment / porosity ..pending pillar material same expansion / contraction properties as screws!

Chemical resistance....to avoid softening?

[Tronneroi]

I'm about to give this a go tomorrow. I spent the last hour or so on Youtube University. Do you guys remove any material from the stock underneath the action for the epoxy to fill in?

[prarie_boy1]

I usually just sand off the factory finish and make some small indents with a Dremel tool to give something for the epoxy to flow into. I also open up the recoil lug area on the sides and front to allow room for plenty of epoxy to flow in and create a mould around the lug. I find it helps to use a wrap or two of tape around the bottom front and sides of the recoil lug and scrape a little clearance around those areas after the epoxy cures so only the rear of the lug is bearing. What do you plan to open up the screw holes with? I find this part gets more complicated then it should be, if the holes are fairly straight and the hole diameter is slightly larger then the pillar when you set the action in the stock to cure and have the pillars snug on the action screws with some tape it should work well when it all cures.

[270person]

All I can suggest is you listen to Dean 're the Devcon use. The man helped me out last summer and showed me his methods. Had some other work done on the rifle afterwards and the gunsmith flat out said it was very well done.

This was a large bore rifle that shouldn't shoot .6 moa at 100 yds, especially with me pulling the trigger, but it does.

Dean knows what he's doing.

[Tronneroi]

Originally Posted by Dean2

I drill out the stock holes a bit, put release agent, Carnuba wax, on the action screws, action threads, floor plate and the whole action, inside and out, recoil lug and any other metal part Devcon may contact. I put the Devcon into the top of the stock, recoil lug and tang and let it run down into the action holes, Screw in the screws and floor pate and let it set for 24 hours. Just barely crack the screws and re tighten after 8 hours.

If you want to discuss in detail PM me your phone number and I would be happy to walk you through any questions. If you are in Edmonton or close I would be willing to help you do the first one. Once you see it, it is pretty easy.

I followed your method here Dean. Just finished setting the action and doing some initial cleanup on over flow. The stock was a Bell and Carlson so the recess for the recoil lug was already quite large. I removed some of the aluminum bedding block material and marred up the fibreglass where it meets the bedding block as well. I feel like everything went smooth but I won't know until tomorrow. I did have some overflow of the devcon come up through the rear action screw (Remington M700), so I cleaned that out as best as I could.

[Dean2]

Some coming up through the front and or rear screw is normal, that is why I advise lots of wax, even inside the action where the lug recesses are, so the Devcon is easy to get out. Many guys are tempted to pop them out early for fear the action will stick, don't do it. They come out much better and way cleaner after 24 hours than they do after 12. Barely crack the screws at 8 hours and tighten back down but let the rest sit the full 24.

For large amounts of overflow a carved wooden Popsicle stick makes a good cleaning tool. Hoppes 9 on a rag or paper towel does an excellent job of removing the small bits of overflow or excess. Works far better than anything else I have found.

Let us know how it turns out after it sets the full 24 hours.

[Tronneroi]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Some coming up through the front and or rear screw is normal, that is why I advise lots of wax, even inside the action where the lug recesses are, so the Devcon is easy to get out. Many guys are tempted to pop them out early for fear the action will stick, don't do it. They come out much better and way cleaner after 24 hours than they do after 12. Barely crack the screws at 8 hours and tighten back down but let the rest sit the full 24.

For large amounts of overflow a carved wooden Popsicle stick makes a good cleaning tool. Hoppes 9 on a rag or paper towel does an excellent job of removing the small bits of overflow or excess. Works far better than anything else I have found.

Let us know how it turns out after it sets the full 24 hours.

Thanks for the advice Dean. I'll try and post some photos tomorrow when I get everything apart and cleaned up.

Also, for anyone else looking for Devcon. Acklands had a pile of it in stock. $70/lb

[Tronneroi]

Forgot to take photos after I had everything put back together but it turned out great IMO. I had a decent mount of overflow into the chamber through the front action screw hole. Glad I didn't forget the shoe polish in there, it popped out relatively easily. The epoxy flowed very well through the action screw holes of the stock and really makes for a nice tight fit. I didn't use tape on any sides of the recoil lug and everything sits very snug, definitely not too difficult to install or remove.

Only thing I would do different next time would be getting some longer 1/4x28 bolts to install in the action before seating it in the stock. That way I could avoid all the overflow through the two action screw holes.

All in all I'm very happy though. Before bedding, I could only tighten the action screws to 15"/# before the bolt would start to bind. Have them at 45"/# now and everything cycles smoothly.

Thanks all!

[Dean2]

Glad it turned out so well. If you want to limit
overflow into the front and rear action holes plug them with plasticine. This stops the devcon from oozing up into the holes. You will still get a tiny bit when you install the action screws but no where near as bad.

[260 Rem]

A couple of comments. First, it is important to insure some clearance around the guard screws. This can be done by wrapping them with tape or using an appropriate sized straw.
Second, I prefer using modeling clay over plasticine as I find the latter to be a bit “greasy” which can make it a challenge to stick it to surfaces.
Long bolts make things much easier than trying to use the guard screws...